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Sanctions on Russia

Started by Richard Wilson4 · · 👁 281 views · 9.5K replies

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Participants Richard Wilson4velvetcyclist95Jeremy Peterson4silentsurfer3rowdytiger13Carol Newman2William Anderson5Carl Cookfrozencobra50Paul Patel95Michael Davis10Gary WilsonGregory Ramos3slyfox43dustywolf13Tyler Jones6Larry Walker24Ashley Ramirez4Paul Clark80Adam Lee13northernangler8Nancy Ruiz5James Chavez91neonheron9 …
Nathan Evans78 Nathan Evans78 Regular
283 messages
joined Aug 2019
#8001 ·
The Government just released an update regarding the new price cap regulation. For the next seven days, retail prices are being strictly limited to today's levels:

- Gasoline will be capped at $3.50 per liter, diesel at $4.00, and red diesel at $2.75. As for propane, it'll be $4.75 per kilogram for canisters and $3.25 per kg for tank refills.

If the Government hadn't stepped in with these measures, we'd likely be looking at:

- $3.35 per liter for gasoline

- $3.95 per liter for diesel

- $2.75 per liter for red diesel

- $4.30 per kg for propane canisters

- $3.10 per kg for propane tanks

https://www.nytimes.com/news/us/gas-prices-update-15262941
hollowdriver13 hollowdriver13 Regular
705 messages
joined Feb 2022
#8002 ·
Nathan Evans78 said:
The Government just released an update regarding the new price cap regulation. For the next seven days, retail prices are being strictly limited to today's levels:

- Gasoline will be capped at $3.50 per liter, diesel at $4.00, and red diesel at $2.75. As for propane, it'll be $4.75 per kilogram for canisters and $3.25 per kg for tank refills.

If the Government hadn't stepped in with these measures, we'd likely be looking at:

- $3.35 per liter for gasoline

- $3.95 per liter for diesel

- $2.75 per liter for red diesel

- $4.30 per kg for propane canisters

- $3.10 per kg for propane tanks

https://www.nytimes.com/news/us/gas-prices-update-15262941

You guys were all calling Viktor Orbán a total powerhouse when he was pulling moves like this back in Canada, acting like every little thing he did was just "Russian influence."
So what’s the deal now? Why is it suddenly such a massive issue when the exact same thing happens here in America?
Nathan Evans78 Nathan Evans78 Regular
283 messages
joined Aug 2019
#8003 ·
hollowdriver13 said:You guys were all calling Viktor Orbán a total powerhouse when he was pulling moves like this back in Canada, acting like every little thing he did was just "Russian influence."
So what’s the deal now? Why is it suddenly such a massive issue when the exact same thing happens here in America?

Look, Viktor Orbán is a firebrand who operates on a completely different wavelength than I do. ☕
casualtiger2 casualtiger2 Regular
330 messages
joined Apr 2022
#8004 ·
gentlestag15 said:It’s pretty wild how gas prices today are basically sitting right where they were before the invasion started.
https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/eu-natural-gas

Oil is actually trading a bit lower than it was pre-invasion, too.
https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/crude-oil

And yet, you had a whole crowd of people here trying to sell us on the idea of Europe collapsing or some other nonsense.😁

This definitely plays a role too.
Natural gas storage levels - Gas storage

EU - 92% (1026 TWh)

Belgium - 100%
Denmark - 99.8%
France - 98.7% (131 TWh)
Poland - 98.3%
USA - 96.2% (4.6 TWh)
Germany - 95.6% (235 TWh)
Italy - 93.9% (182 TWh)
Netherlands - 92.9% (129 TWh)

Spain - 92.5%
Romania - 91.3%
Slovakia - 89.5%
Czech Republic - 89.3%
Portugal - 87.6%
Austria - 86.2%
Canada - 78.7%
Carl Lee27 Carl Lee27 Regular
368 messages
joined Feb 2024
#8005 ·
Gas prices across most of Europe are absolutely cratering right now, and the Dutch TTF has already dipped below €125 per MWh. Honestly, at this rate, I wouldn't be surprised if we see it sliding under the €100 mark as early as this week.
Dana Robinson4 Dana Robinson4 Active Member
181 messages
joined Jul 2010
#8006 ·
Richard Wilson4 said:What percentage of the global economy do those 150 non-sanctioning countries actually represent?

Well, China sits at 18.4%, India accounts for about 7.5%, and as for the other 148... I don't really feel like doing all that math right now.
hollowdriver13 hollowdriver13 Regular
705 messages
joined Feb 2022
#8007 ·
Carl Lee27 said:Gas prices across most of Europe are absolutely cratering right now, and the Dutch TTF has already dipped below €125 per MWh. Honestly, at this rate, I wouldn't be surprised if we see it sliding under the €100 mark as early as this week.

Well, Ural crude isn't exactly blooming either. Even after those production cut announcements gave it a little nudge upward, it’s sliding back down again. If you look at the long-term trend, it's heading in the same direction, and right now it's actually trading about 3% lower than where it was at the start of 2022.

https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/urals-oil
rustywalker82 rustywalker82 Active Member
203 messages
joined Feb 2013
#8008 ·
Before the pandemic hit, the three-year average for Brentwood crude was sitting at about $60 a barrel. Back then, everyone was super bullish on the global economy, too. But look at what happened once those oil sanctions started rolling in during the start of the Russian invasion—the average price for Brentwood shot up to $110, even though all the economic forecasts were looking grim. It’s wild when you think about it; the average Russian salary in dollars basically caught up to the average American wage, and they were already right there with Mexico.
We all saw this coming from a mile away, but it didn't matter. People just had to keep droning on about the cartel and Putin just to prove how much they actually didn't know anything.
Christian Torres3 Christian Torres3 Regular
604 messages
joined Sep 2014
#8009 ·
rustywalker82 said:Before the pandemic hit, the three-year average for Brentwood crude was sitting at about $60 a barrel. Back then, everyone was super bullish on the global economy, too. But look at what happened once those oil sanctions started rolling in during the start of the Russian invasion—the average price for Brentwood shot up to $110, even though all the economic forecasts were looking grim. It’s wild when you think about it; the average Russian salary in dollars basically caught up to the average American wage, and they were already right there with Mexico.
We all saw this coming from a mile away, but it didn't matter. People just had to keep droning on about the cartel and Putin just to prove how much they actually didn't know anything.

Are we talking official exchange rates for the ruble and dollar here, or the actual street value?
Jack Kelly5 Jack Kelly5 Active Member
117 messages
joined Sep 2019
#8010 ·
rustywalker82 said:Before the pandemic hit, the three-year average for Brentwood crude was sitting at about $60 a barrel. Back then, everyone was super bullish on the global economy, too. But look at what happened once those oil sanctions started rolling in during the start of the Russian invasion—the average price for Brentwood shot up to $110, even though all the economic forecasts were looking grim. It’s wild when you think about it; the average Russian salary in dollars basically caught up to the average American wage, and they were already right there with Mexico.
We all saw this coming from a mile away, but it didn't matter. People just had to keep droning on about the cartel and Putin just to prove how much they actually didn't know anything.

If these sanctions stick around through the spring, the average Russian might end up making more per month than a Norwegian and a Luxembourger combined. It wouldn't surprise me to see a massive wave of millions of migrants, mostly coming from Benelux countries, heading straight for Eastern Siberia.
wiredseal7 wiredseal7 Regular
320 messages
joined Jan 2009
#8011 ·
analogbear5 said:The poor cartel is being manipulated by the market. Poor little guys.

Just pointing out that Americans love to play hypocrite—accusing OPEC+ of exactly what they've been doing themselves for the last six months—while calling it something completely different.
rustywalker82 rustywalker82 Active Member
203 messages
joined Feb 2013
#8012 ·
Christian Torres3 said:Are we talking official exchange rates for the ruble and dollar here, or the actual street value?

The official one. And look, when you're dealing with the official rate, that's what you use to buy everything from Russia—energy, raw materials, fertilizers, grain, all that stuff—and vice versa for imports. You can't just grab black market currency and then try to play it straight with the goods. If there's a different rate floating around on the street, it definitely isn't because of energy sanctions. From what I've seen, the Russians have been pulling in just as much cash from energy sales as they were before any sanctions even hit.

The bottom line is this: with the money Europeans basically threw away to the cartel this year because they didn't know better, we could've bought missile defense systems for the entire world, not just for Ukraine.
And my point is, people have been saying this since day one. It’s not some "hindsight is 20/20" thing being shouted by generals after the battle is already over.
analogbear5 analogbear5 Regular
571 messages
joined Aug 2019
#8013 ·
wiredseal7 said:Just pointing out that Americans love to play hypocrite—accusing OPEC+ of exactly what they've been doing themselves for the last six months—while calling it something completely different.

So, let me get this straight—when a cartel intentionally cuts supply just to jack up prices (which is literally the definition of a cartel), the rest of the world is supposed to just roll over for the Arabs and hand them everything on a silver platter?

Maybe you're into that kind of masochism, but if you ask me, having some actual defense against that kind of blackmail is probably a good idea.
Christian Torres3 Christian Torres3 Regular
604 messages
joined Sep 2014
#8014 ·
rustywalker82 said:The official one. And look, when you're dealing with the official rate, that's what you use to buy everything from Russia—energy, raw materials, fertilizers, grain, all that stuff—and vice versa for imports. You can't just grab black market currency and then try to play it straight with the goods. If there's a different rate floating around on the street, it definitely isn't because of energy sanctions. From what I've seen, the Russians have been pulling in just as much cash from energy sales as they were before any sanctions even hit.

The bottom line is this: with the money Europeans basically threw away to the cartel this year because they didn't know better, we could've bought missile defense systems for the entire world, not just for Ukraine.
And my point is, people have been saying this since day one. It’s not some "hindsight is 20/20" thing being shouted by generals after the battle is already over.

Nuff' said ☕

And officially, everything is being bought from Russia,...

Not really. For example, China pays for oil and gas 50% in yuan, and you probably forgot to factor in the discount they get on Ural vs Brent. Anyway, it’d be nice if Russian citizens actually understood how their standard of living is being propped up.
electricsurfer47 electricsurfer47 Active Member
177 messages
joined Jun 2018
#8015 ·
gentlestag15 said:It’s pretty wild how gas prices today are basically sitting right where they were before the invasion started.
https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/eu-natural-gas

Oil is actually trading a bit lower than it was pre-invasion, too.
https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/crude-oil

And yet, you had a whole crowd of people here trying to sell us on the idea of Europe collapsing or some other nonsense.😁

So, I was reading an article from the morning news earlier saying Germany is running into trouble because they're short on AdBlue—which uses urea, and you need gas to make urea. Apparently, some company making the stuff shut down because they couldn't deal with the high costs? Is that actually true???

If there's enough gas available and the price is back to where it used to be, there shouldn't be any issues.
velvetcanyon20 velvetcanyon20 Member
13 messages
joined Jan 2018
#8016 ·
rustywalker82 said:The official one. And look, when you're dealing with the official rate, that's what you use to buy everything from Russia—energy, raw materials, fertilizers, grain, all that stuff—and vice versa for imports. You can't just grab black market currency and then try to play it straight with the goods. If there's a different rate floating around on the street, it definitely isn't because of energy sanctions. From what I've seen, the Russians have been pulling in just as much cash from energy sales as they were before any sanctions even hit.

The bottom line is this: with the money Europeans basically threw away to the cartel this year because they didn't know better, we could've bought missile defense systems for the entire world, not just for Ukraine.
And my point is, people have been saying this since day one. It’s not some "hindsight is 20/20" thing being shouted by generals after the battle is already over.

Now, this is where the mental gymnastics get really intense... the idea that you impose sanctions on a country and somehow end up making them wealthier.
🤦
You stop sending them billions of dollars every month for gas, so they just flare it off instead, yet somehow they end up with more cash in hand. It's pure magic...
The gas burns, the dollars don't arrive, and yet they just keep getting richer... 🤔
George Robinson43 George Robinson43 Regular
472 messages
joined Oct 2017
#8017 ·
analogbear5 said:So, let me get this straight—when a cartel intentionally cuts supply just to jack up prices (which is literally the definition of a cartel), the rest of the world is supposed to just roll over for the Arabs and hand them everything on a silver platter?

Maybe you're into that kind of masochism, but if you ask me, having some actual defense against that kind of blackmail is probably a good idea.

Look, true Russia-lovers will always cheer for oil hitting $300 and gas reaching $800 per MWh, even if they end up riding a bicycle for the rest of their lives.

In the meantime, the message to those princes and emirs is loud and clear: push those oil prices up and say goodbye to our missile shield. May Allah help you when those missiles come flying across the Gulf. 👋
dustyowl29 dustyowl29 Regular
258 messages
joined Dec 2007
#8018 ·
electricsurfer47 said:So, I was reading an article from the morning news earlier saying Germany is running into trouble because they're short on AdBlue—which uses urea, and you need gas to make urea. Apparently, some company making the stuff shut down because they couldn't deal with the high costs? Is that actually true???

If there's enough gas available and the price is back to where it used to be, there shouldn't be any issues.

The reality is we'll just end up importing it from China—they buy gas from Russia and basically manufacture everything from sewing needles to locomotives...
wiredseal7 wiredseal7 Regular
320 messages
joined Jan 2009
#8019 ·
analogbear5 said:So, let me get this straight—when a cartel intentionally cuts supply just to jack up prices (which is literally the definition of a cartel), the rest of the world is supposed to just roll over for the Arabs and hand them everything on a silver platter?

Maybe you're into that kind of masochism, but if you ask me, having some actual defense against that kind of blackmail is probably a good idea.

China is the big customer for the Arabs, so there's zero pushback.
Someone put it perfectly: when Americans show up in Africa, they just point a finger and make threats. When the Chinese show up, they build a bridge or a hospital.
It’s a perfect reflection of what we’re seeing coming out of the White House lately—on a global scale, anyway. It’s bordering on pure madness from the Trump administration—specifically regarding China and those unprovoked attempts to gut their high-tech sectors (it's a bit late for that, but hey, they're in full damage-control mode).
Watching their politicians brag about it during election season is just pathetic.

The rest of the independent West—and yeah, we've been in this loop for a while now—isn't exactly going to bow down to the Arabs over this decision. But don't be surprised if, come November, we realize that some friendly old man decides to shut off the tap from his own reserves—even if he still has enough supplies to last months, if not half a year.😬
George Robinson43 George Robinson43 Regular
472 messages
joined Oct 2017
#8020 ·
wiredseal7 said:China is the big customer for the Arabs, so there's zero pushback.
Someone put it perfectly: when Americans show up in Africa, they just point a finger and make threats. When the Chinese show up, they build a bridge or a hospital.
It’s a perfect reflection of what we’re seeing coming out of the White House lately—on a global scale, anyway. It’s bordering on pure madness from the Trump administration—specifically regarding China and those unprovoked attempts to gut their high-tech sectors (it's a bit late for that, but hey, they're in full damage-control mode).
Watching their politicians brag about it during election season is just pathetic.

The rest of the independent West—and yeah, we've been in this loop for a while now—isn't exactly going to bow down to the Arabs over this decision. But don't be surprised if, come November, we realize that some friendly old man decides to shut off the tap from his own reserves—even if he still has enough supplies to last months, if not half a year.😬

How on earth does that relate to anything?
An OPEC production cut translates directly into a supply shortage on the global market.

Someone put it perfectly: when Americans arrive in Africa, they just point a finger and make threats. But when the Chinese show up, they build a bridge or a hospital.

Fantastic. Now EU ships in the Mediterranean know exactly where to direct Africans.

I am speaking specifically about relations with China and those unprovoked attempts to dismantle their high-tech economic sectors(I'm late to the party on this one, but I'm still in maximum damage mode).

No one can touch Chinese high-tech unless the Party gives the order!
They can develop everything entirely independently. Or can they? How does that work?

Wait, wait—Chinese high-tech isn't even capable of developing its own aircraft. Oh shiiiit.
Is it all just mass-producing chips?

The rest of the independent West, we have been part of that for some time now, including us.,

And who might you be? A group of independent Russophiles?

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