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Sanctions on Russia

Started by Richard Wilson4 · · 👁 267 views · 9.5K replies

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Participants Richard Wilson4velvetcyclist95Jeremy Peterson4silentsurfer3rowdytiger13Carol Newman2William Anderson5Carl Cookfrozencobra50Paul Patel95Michael Davis10Gary WilsonGregory Ramos3slyfox43dustywolf13Tyler Jones6Larry Walker24Ashley Ramirez4Paul Clark80Adam Lee13northernangler8Nancy Ruiz5James Chavez91neonheron9 …
Melissa Rivera5 Melissa Rivera5 Regular
432 messages
joined Jun 2024
#8181 ·
Man, copying stuff isn't nearly as simple as people make it out to be. I mean, sure, you can rip off a chair design or some clothes because everyone pretty much knows how that works. But the higher you climb up that tech ladder, the harder it gets to just mimic what's at the top. Like, I guess anyone who finished high school physics probably understands the basic concept of a nuclear bomb, but that doesn't mean they could actually build one even if they had a hundred years to try. It’s the exact same deal with chips. The US is facing a massive hurdle when it comes to the specialized know-how and the designers behind it all; trying to move an Intel plant over to the States so it runs just like it does in Taiwan is a huge mountain to climb. And if that's the case for them, imagine how tough it is for anyone else. All those sanctions that were put in place... honestly, I don't think decades of blind copying is ever going to make up for that.
Gregory Ramos3 Gregory Ramos3 Active Member
220 messages
joined Feb 2022
#8182 ·
There’s also this other thing on my mind, where by the time I actually manage to scrape together some useful data from a working database, the folks in the civilized world will have already invented and mass-produced something way more advanced, so unless we see some kind of insane scientific breakthrough, we'll just be stuck playing catch-up by a step or two forever..

Basically, when you've got that massive technological edge and you're constantly pouring money back into R&D, you actually get to keep that lead, mostly because the competition is too busy trying to reverse engineer what you've done instead of actually innovating themselves..
Robert Barrett6 Robert Barrett6 Member
44 messages
joined May 2023
#8183 ·
brightheron64 said:It is an intriguing thesis, certainly.

How else would you explain the fact that up until the 70s, the Chinese weren't even capable of building what the Germans and Britons were producing for Bismarck or Queen Victoria, yet here they are today...

Just consider this one little detail:

Nearly a quarter of all cars newly registered in China are now electric or plug-in hybrid vehicles, meaning that the country is ahead of Europe and well ahead of The US in adoption of Thes technologies. Half The world's EVs ara sold in China.

Do you honestly think the Chinese—unlike the Russians—are just importing electric vehicles? That they aren't developing their own tech and manufacturing capabilities along the way... Can you even begin to imagine what the landscape will look like in five or ten years, and who will actually be leading the world in EV production?...

And that is exactly where the catch lies. Honestly, please just view this as a bit of lamentation or a debate... rather than some attempt to take the side of the Russians. I am simply wondering if, in the long run, these sanctions might actually force Russia into a new era of industrialization, transforming them from arrogant exporters and importers into genuine technological competitors...

Of course, it's a process that takes time, but once you learn a lesson like this, you'd hope it would prompt some reflection, much like what happened with the agricultural sector...

It won't force them to do anything except make them even more insufferable. A massive chunk of the people who actually matter have decided to pack their bags because of this war. And honestly, they were already leaving in droves long before the fighting started.

People can claim an expert is sacrificing themselves for the greater good, giving up a comfortable life for their family and living in constant uncertainty just so uneducated resource owners can fund their private castles and yachts.

link1, link2

With this war, Russia has lost a huge portion of its remaining "brains" and human potential, while driving up desperation levels to the worst ratio in the world for both men and women.

Metaphorically speaking, they shot themselves in the foot.

And if you want to know how to best recruit top-tier experts, just look at the USA. China, Germany, France, the UK... they all try to copy that playbook, but they aren't particularly successful at it, but that's a whole different conversation.
wearytrucker22 wearytrucker22 Active Member
222 messages
joined Dec 2012
#8184 ·
Melissa Rivera5 said:Man, copying stuff isn't nearly as simple as people make it out to be. I mean, sure, you can rip off a chair design or some clothes because everyone pretty much knows how that works. But the higher you climb up that tech ladder, the harder it gets to just mimic what's at the top. Like, I guess anyone who finished high school physics probably understands the basic concept of a nuclear bomb, but that doesn't mean they could actually build one even if they had a hundred years to try. It’s the exact same deal with chips. The US is facing a massive hurdle when it comes to the specialized know-how and the designers behind it all; trying to move an Intel plant over to the States so it runs just like it does in Taiwan is a huge mountain to climb. And if that's the case for them, imagine how tough it is for anyone else. All those sanctions that were put in place... honestly, I don't think decades of blind copying is ever going to make up for that.

Elizabeth Wells2 Elizabeth Wells2 Member
22 messages
joined May 2023
#8185 ·
brightheron64 said:It is an intriguing thesis, certainly.

How else would you explain the fact that up until the 70s, the Chinese weren't even capable of building what the Germans and Britons were producing for Bismarck or Queen Victoria, yet here they are today...

Just consider this one little detail:

Nearly a quarter of all cars newly registered in China are now electric or plug-in hybrid vehicles, meaning that the country is ahead of Europe and well ahead of The US in adoption of Thes technologies. Half The world's EVs ara sold in China.

Do you honestly think the Chinese—unlike the Russians—are just importing electric vehicles? That they aren't developing their own tech and manufacturing capabilities along the way... Can you even begin to imagine what the landscape will look like in five or ten years, and who will actually be leading the world in EV production?...

And that is exactly where the catch lies. Honestly, please just view this as a bit of lamentation or a debate... rather than some attempt to take the side of the Russians. I am simply wondering if, in the long run, these sanctions might actually force Russia into a new era of industrialization, transforming them from arrogant exporters and importers into genuine technological competitors...

Of course, it's a process that takes time, but once you learn a lesson like this, you'd hope it would prompt some reflection, much like what happened with the agricultural sector...

They won't. We both know why.

Brain drain.

Every sensible, educated, and bright person in Russia is just waiting for a chance to pack up and head West. All that's left behind are the primitives. Who exactly is supposed to drive that kind of progress?
Anthony Hill5 Anthony Hill5 Regular
379 messages
joined May 2024
#8186 ·
Elizabeth Wells2 said:They won't. We both know why.

Brain drain.

Every sensible, educated, and bright person in Russia is just waiting for a chance to pack up and head West. All that's left behind are the primitives. Who exactly is supposed to drive that kind of progress?

Precisely. Even before this war broke out, scientists were already abandoning Russia, but now, what little talent is left will surely follow suit.
Nancy Gomez26 Nancy Gomez26 Regular
787 messages
joined Jan 2018
#8187 ·
Everyone who actually wants to leave—and possesses the means, the connections, or the fluency to make it happen—is heading out. It isn't just a matter of "talent" leaving; it’s anyone with an exit strategy. These people are certainly skilled at one thing: finding the door. Their other talents? That's a different story entirely.
My view is that national progress hinges on creating a stable, predictable environment, which is fundamentally a task for policymakers. If you can convince people that their surroundings are secure, stable, and conducive to both labor and commerce, you don't just entice those who left to come back; you attract a whole new wave of innovators and thinkers.
wiredseal7 wiredseal7 Regular
320 messages
joined Jan 2009
#8188 ·
Melissa Rivera5 said:Man, copying stuff isn't nearly as simple as people make it out to be. I mean, sure, you can rip off a chair design or some clothes because everyone pretty much knows how that works. But the higher you climb up that tech ladder, the harder it gets to just mimic what's at the top. Like, I guess anyone who finished high school physics probably understands the basic concept of a nuclear bomb, but that doesn't mean they could actually build one even if they had a hundred years to try. It’s the exact same deal with chips. The US is facing a massive hurdle when it comes to the specialized know-how and the designers behind it all; trying to move an Intel plant over to the States so it runs just like it does in Taiwan is a huge mountain to climb. And if that's the case for them, imagine how tough it is for anyone else. All those sanctions that were put in place... honestly, I don't think decades of blind copying is ever going to make up for that.

Who even bothers with copying anymore? Nowadays, it's all about the race to innovate.
Case in point—they just edged out the Americans in a major semiconductor research metric:
https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Tec...hip-conference

A lot of Chinese researchers are leaving American science—not because there's a shortage of talent here, mind you—but because of the bullying and witch hunts pushed by the American administration during the Trump era. Meanwhile, China is waiting for them with open arms.
And if you use any basic logic, a nation of 1.4 billion people pumping out endless waves of STEM graduates has to have enough brainpower to close the tech gap with the West. We're seeing it happen right now, and we'll be watching it intensify over the next decade or so.

The tech embargo is just a desperate attempt by neocons to slow them down while they still have some leverage left. Honestly, it feels more like buying a single year of breathing room so the US can subsidize and protect its own industries before the Chinese competition steamrolls them—which, let's face it, already happened with solar panels.

Russia's "pivot to China," despite being forced by sanctions, makes sense from the jump. If they get hit, they can carve out a spot in that ecosystem. If they don't, they'll just be consumers of products without any competition—just like they've been, only the products used to be Western. Either way, they'll always be a source of cheap raw materials, whether for the East or the West.
William Cooper11 William Cooper11 Active Member
129 messages
joined Mar 2013
#8189 ·
wiredseal7 said:Who even bothers with copying anymore? Nowadays, it's all about the race to innovate.
Case in point—they just edged out the Americans in a major semiconductor research metric:
https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Tec...hip-conference

A lot of Chinese researchers are leaving American science—not because there's a shortage of talent here, mind you—but because of the bullying and witch hunts pushed by the American administration during the Trump era. Meanwhile, China is waiting for them with open arms.
And if you use any basic logic, a nation of 1.4 billion people pumping out endless waves of STEM graduates has to have enough brainpower to close the tech gap with the West. We're seeing it happen right now, and we'll be watching it intensify over the next decade or so.

The tech embargo is just a desperate attempt by neocons to slow them down while they still have some leverage left. Honestly, it feels more like buying a single year of breathing room so the US can subsidize and protect its own industries before the Chinese competition steamrolls them—which, let's face it, already happened with solar panels.

Russia's "pivot to China," despite being forced by sanctions, makes sense from the jump. If they get hit, they can carve out a spot in that ecosystem. If they don't, they'll just be consumers of products without any competition—just like they've been, only the products used to be Western. Either way, they'll always be a source of cheap raw materials, whether for the East or the West.

Not necessarily. Some estimates suggest we only have about 40 years of fossil fuels left before the well runs dry.
Joshua Myers432 Joshua Myers432 Regular
285 messages
joined Feb 2011
#8190 ·
William Cooper11 said:Not necessarily. Some estimates suggest we only have about 40 years of fossil fuels left before the well runs dry.

People were making that exact same claim 40 years ago. 😁
feraleagle36 feraleagle36 Newcomer
3 messages
joined Mar 2024
#8191 ·
William Cooper11 said:Not necessarily. Some estimates suggest we only have about 40 years of fossil fuels left before the well runs dry.


They've been claiming we only have 20 years of fossil fuels left since the 1960s.
brightheron64 brightheron64 Regular
408 messages
joined Apr 2016
#8192 ·
William Cooper11 said:Not necessarily. Some estimates suggest we only have about 40 years of fossil fuels left before the well runs dry.

Well, if we look at the timeline, we should see the first fusion reactor actually operational by around 2040. So, really, there's no need to panic just yet...
analogbear5 analogbear5 Regular
571 messages
joined Aug 2019
#8193 ·
It’s actually pretty wild when you think about it—a planet with a finite volume can still hold an endless supply of oil.
Sam Alvarez4 Sam Alvarez4 Regular
303 messages
joined Sep 2014
#8194 ·
Poland just declared Lavrov persona non grata. 🤣
They’ve blocked him from entering the country for the OSCE ministerial meeting scheduled for early December in Lodz...

The Russian Chancellor has been declared persona non grata at the OSCE summit in Poland
20:34
Amanda Allen4 Amanda Allen4 Active Member
238 messages
joined Feb 2013
#8195 ·
analogbear5 said:It’s actually pretty wild when you think about it—a planet with a finite volume can still hold an endless supply of oil.

Isn't that just like the logic they use for diamonds? People claim there's barely any diamond content left in the Earth's crust—as if they're some disappearing act! They aren't going anywhere. If you want one for a gold ring, you just walk into the first jewelry store you see and buy it. Simple as that.
Melissa Rivera5 Melissa Rivera5 Regular
432 messages
joined Jun 2024
#8196 ·
Sam Alvarez4 said:Poland just declared Lavrov persona non grata. 🤣
They’ve blocked him from entering the country for the OSCE ministerial meeting scheduled for early December in Lodz...

The Russian Chancellor has been declared persona non grata at the OSCE summit in Poland
20:34

I mean, yeah, totally fair. It’d be pretty weird if a country that’s basically messing with European peace and flirting with WW3 and a nuclear holocaust actually showed up to an OSCE summit.
Jesse Hughes6 Jesse Hughes6 Active Member
76 messages
joined May 2023
#8197 ·
analogbear5 said:It’s actually pretty wild when you think about it—a planet with a finite volume can still hold an endless supply of oil.

I don't recall anyone ever actually claiming that oil supplies are infinite.
Then again, what makes you so certain we're dealing with a resource that has a fixed, predictable limit?
analogbear5 analogbear5 Regular
571 messages
joined Aug 2019
#8198 ·
We aren't talking about chemicals here—this is about a natural resource, specifically within the context of "sanctions on Russia."
Amanda Allen4 Amanda Allen4 Active Member
238 messages
joined Feb 2013
#8199 ·
Jesse Hughes6 said:I don't recall anyone ever actually claiming that oil supplies are infinite.
Then again, what makes you so certain we're dealing with a resource that has a fixed, predictable limit?

Oil is essentially infinite because there is always more out there—it’s just that some of it is far too expensive to actually bother drilling for.
Timothy Williams5 Timothy Williams5 Regular
325 messages
joined Jun 2022
#8200 ·
According to reports from Politico citing internal European Commission documents, the European Union has frozen Russian assets totaling approximately $74 billion.

The bulk of these funds—roughly $54 billion—is sitting in Belgium, with another $6 billion held in Luxembourg. These two nations, along with Italy, Germany, Ireland, Austria, and France, account for about 90% of the total frozen wealth.

https://theins.ru/news/257110

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