Posts by briskbison55

Elizabeth Jackson, look, just some friendly advice here—maybe you should consider stepping back from everything that landed you in this spot, whether it’s the whole raw food thing, staring at the sky looking for patterns, or whatever else. It feels like there’s a lot of taking things out of context, which seems to be what you do in all those threads you constantly argue about... and honestly, do you really want to get reported every single time for stuff like that? Or for when you post those comments calling us all names? Just let me know, okay? If we’re all going to start reporting posts, I’d at least like a heads-up so I know what I'm getting into.

Look, you can say whatever you want, I guess, but it honestly feels like whenever someone can't actually back up their points in an argument, they just start looking for ways to nitpick everyone else instead.

northerncobra31 said:Look, this is just your classic troll comment. There are tons of them on this thread—just making huge generalizations and refusing to actually have a decent conversation.

So, you want me to report you? Since you're out here calling people clones and going straight for personal attacks instead of just reporting someone and waiting for the mods to act? I mean, it doesn't really matter to me, but maybe stop trying to make a scene when nobody's even buying it.

Everything he said is spot on. I mean, if you can't handle someone else's perspective, maybe just don't jump into the debate at all? Honestly, I was out driving on this dimly lit road around 6:00 this morning and I almost hit a cyclist in Los Angeles who didn't have any lights on whatsoever—and I was following the speed limit perfectly fine. It feels like these people making all that noise through their little advocacy groups are basically just mocking the law. And I really think those who actually follow the rules aren't the idiots here, no matter what anyone says.

It’s pretty negligible, really... and honestly, who am I to blame? I keep giving Burton another shot, hoping he'll finally prove me wrong—but he just feels like some total nobody at this point. It isn't even like "creative chaos," it's just... messy.

Jason Ortiz5 said:And since when do parents of non-religious kids skip out on health insurance? Seriously, nobody told me about this—I'm still getting billed!

As for the LGBTQ+ community, I'd happily give $33. Honestly, not one priest ever told my kid they'd be roasting in hell forever if they weren't a lesbian. Unlike some of these kids sitting through religious studies classes.

That's the whole point, really... nobody asks if you want it or not—it's just decided for you—but religious education should be a personal choice.

Sarah Hall53 said:What on earth does health insurance have to do with religious studies? 🤔
Are you actually suggesting that only "good" believers deserve coverage, while everyone else should just be left to suffer through their illnesses?

I guess it just doesn't make sense if you look at it logically 😁 or do you think only the "good" atheists get a say when we're talking about the Islamic Studies Department? I really hope I don't have to explain that further.

Susan James said:I find it pretty interesting how they interpret us. 🙂

The article came out just a few days ago, right around the same time a few Catholics posted here mentioning they weren't happy with how religious education is being presented in schools.

On a side note, if religious studies is an elective course, why are the textbooks for it being funded by the city government—basically by us taxpayers?
I remember having to pay out of pocket for extra math workbooks if I wanted my kid to take advanced classes, and I had to pay for art supplies too (even though art was a required subject).

Even the parents of kids who opt out of religious classes are still paying into the system that covers health insurance for everyone, including those who don't want those classes. Are we going to audit that too? And what about minority rights? Or LGBTQ+ rights? It’s kind of wild to read people complaining about things they actually benefit from $3.25 instead of questioning the things they're constantly receiving $33.

Wait, so what, we aren't talking about pigs in a pen here, we're talking about actual people? I mean, maybe in some dark history book about concentration camps, but seriously, having a debate at this level is just... impossible. 😉 It’s just pure intolerance, straight-up bigotry, and blatant hatred—that’s really the only way to describe how this tiny, loud minority is reacting toward one specific elective course. And what is that course even teaching? That people like *that* deserve love too. Honestly, it's just madness.

Richard Perez3 said:Hey, quick question for you.
You probably saw my earlier post about my friend’s kid getting sent to Islamic Studies. Apparently, it’s one of those elective classes that supposedly "doesn't interfere with home upbringing, traditions, values, or anything like that" for kids who aren't part of the faith.

It’s the exact same garbage, just different branding. It’s not Christian this time, it’s Islamic—big freaking deal.
Would you ever actually sign your kid up for something like that?

Look, I mean... I honestly feel like there isn't much point in talking anymore once you start comparing believers to pigs. It’s that whole "us versus them" mentality I was rambling about yesterday, you know? To me, that kind of exclusion is basically the first step toward ghettoization, which is exactly how all those totalitarian regimes in history operated and continue to operate today.

Richard Perez3 said:If you don't know something, you sit down, listen, read up, or just ask someone who actually does. That's what we're doing here. Just because you don't have a kid facing the same issues—or even if you do, but you aren't treating it like it's your own problem—doesn't mean the person struggling doesn't have a real issue.
Playing dumb is just wrong.
It always comes back to haunt you. Maybe not when we're talking about religious studies, but when things get heavy later, you're gonna realize how much you need someone who didn't just play blind and troll while you were dealing with something serious.

We might be close in age, but seriously, are we really that far apart if you haven't heard a single word about after-school care, the teachers on duty, or the general responsibility and oversight teachers have over students? Honestly, I have to wonder.

Excuse me, but are you equating yourself with a seven-year-old, or a seven-year-old with yourself? Are you comparing school to the sidewalk? Comparing the authority of a teacher to a guy handing out flyers? Equating your decision-making power to a child's ability to decide whether to take a pamphlet? Or are you trying to say your ability to judge what meat is is somehow the same as a seven-year-old's ability to judge what faith is?

Second off, you claimed that kids who don't attend religious classes have no connection to them whatsoever.
Let me give you an example that proves the exact opposite.
You throw out a street example involving adults to act like it doesn't matter, basically saying "whatever, who cares."
It matters.
I signed a waiver at my school stating my kid wouldn't participate.
It was clearly documented.
Then, a month later, they subtly shove another form in my face, acting all coy like, "Oh, if you haven't signed yet..."
I told them, "I already signed it, they aren't going, end of story."
Three weeks later, they show up at my house with religious materials.

Seriously, that is unacceptable.
It’s sneaky, manipulative, and plays the long game.
And it's plain rude.

You can't compare that to rules on the street. You can't equate an adult to a child, nor can you equate the authority of a teacher to a random person passing out ads—especially not when you're comparing pedestrians to actual students.

This approach kills the conversation. It makes dialogue impossible and prevents any real understanding of other people's views, which is the whole point of discussing things.
And if you keep pushing this line, well, that's just trolling.
And that's not gonna fly with me. 😉

I mean, look, I’m just speaking from my own experience here... back when I was in school, we used to spend our free periods hanging out on the playground, or in the gym, or just chilling in the cafeteria without any teachers actually watching over us. So, please, don't act like I'm being thick. I really didn't hear about any teachers being assigned to supervise students during those gaps in the schedule. I asked, I got an answer, and now we move on.

Quincy:

Are you seriously trying to equate yourself with a seven-year-old? Or are you comparing a child to yourself? You're treating the school system like it's just some random street corner, applying street logic to school rules. Comparing the authority of a teacher to someone handing out flyers on a sidewalk? Equating your ability to make decisions with a seven-year-old's decision-making process—like whether or not they decide to take a flyer? Is your ability to choose what kind of meat you eat somehow the same as a seven-year-old's ability to choose their faith?

Let me try answering that with a question of my own... honestly, what is a kid even going to do with a flyer they're handed? Hide it from their parents and secretly join a religious sect? My parents always taught me to check in with them if something was bothering me; kids aren't broken or incapable of thinking.
Quincy:

Another thing, you claimed that kids who don't attend religious classes have zero contact with them. But I can give you an example that proves the exact opposite. You just give examples from the street and treat adults like it's irrelevant, acting all like "whatever, it doesn't matter." It does matter. I signed a waiver at my school stating my child wouldn't be attending. The fact is clearly documented. And yet, a month later, they subtly pushed another form at me, basically saying, "if you haven't signed this yet..." I told them, "I already signed it, they aren't participating, end of story." Then, three weeks later, they bring religious materials home anyway.

And I'm telling you, it's the same for me—they try to shove flyers in my face at every turn even though I'm not interested in stuff regarding kids in Africa or people in Canada. I don't take it personally, but you clearly do, though I honestly don't see why.

Quincy:

That is counterproductive to a discussion, counterproductive to achieving any actual dialogue, and counterproductive to reaching any understanding of different viewpoints—which is exactly what discussions are for. And if you persist with that, well, then it's just trolling. And that won't fly. 😉

Just nonsense. It’s like whenever someone's opinion isn't being respected in a debate, they immediately start throwing around the term "trolling." So, let me say it one more time: an elective subject that doesn't touch upon home upbringing, rules, customs, emotions, or anything like that doesn't belong to people who aren't part of that community. Any attempt to suppress that leads to extremism. Today it's the right of believers to have religious education, tomorrow it's the right of believers to vote—I'm exaggerating, but you know what I mean.

wanderingbadger44 said:I'm torn between 🤣, 🤦, and 🙄—actually, let's call it a three-way tie.

If we were to ask actual historians how we even transitioned from the height of classical civilization—that era defined by incredible art, literature, architecture, and science—into the Middle Ages, the answer is pretty straightforward.

You guessed it: the Church.

So, should we all be rolling out the red carpet for the Church because they carefully tucked away knowledge and books in monasteries for monks to use while keeping the rest of the public in the dark, only to graciously decide over a millennium later that they’d finally open up schools and universities? It's almost as if they were the only ones with the keys to the library, holding onto everything from advanced philosophy to basic literacy.

It’s funny how history works—like how it wasn't Nat Turner who revolutionized optics, but Blaise Pascal instead. Just strange, isn't it? 🤦

Are we talking about the common people here, or those invading hordes that spent their time burning libraries and then moving on to pillaging and wiping out any foreign ideas or wisdom they found? I mean, come on, let's be fair. Look, nobody's perfect, obviously, but history shows that knowledge survives because of archives and preserved records, not because of cats and fireballs.

Richard Perez3 said:Look, there weren't any gaps back then. In my day, there was never a single moment where kids were just left hanging.
Mind you, I was born in '77, so all that religious nonsense didn't really affect me—we didn't deal with that stuff in the lower grades.
Now, once you hit the upper grades, sure, nobody needs to babysit a thirteen-year-old (even if they technically should!), but here I am talking about a seven, eight, or nine-year-old.
Yeah, those are the ones you have to watch.
Watch them.
Be there for them while they're at school, because the school and the staff are responsible for them.
And they absolutely have to be looked after.

Because if they didn't have to be, we wouldn't even have after-school programs where staff are specifically there to supervise and keep an eye on the kids. If something happens to a kid while they're inside the school building, the school and the faculty are liable. They face the consequences.

So, if that's considered normal—which it totally is—then why on earth isn't it considered normal to look after a child during religion class?

I honestly don't have any clue about that stay or the people in charge of watching over the students... I’m asking sincerely because I just haven't come across anything about it. Maybe it's some newer thing? But, I guess, looking at how much time has passed, we probably aren't that far off.

Richard Perez3 said:Ugh, okay, so people say kids shouldn't be exposed to religious education if they aren't actually enrolled in the class? Yeah, right. Total nonsense. My kid had direct contact with it just last week because the teacher handed out these religious workbooks to the whole class right as we were walking out the door. I'm quoting her here, she literally said she "handed them out to everyone in the room" as we were leaving.

Oh, they have contact. It’s sneaky. It's underhanded. They're finding ways to sneak it in through the back door.

So, I was out on the street today, just walking along, and someone actually handed me this flyer... it was one of those things claiming that eating meat is basically murder. Like, seriously? Do I think meat is murder? No. I mean, I don't know, if you apply that logic to anything else, it just doesn't really hold up, I guess. It’s just... yeah.

Lisa Rivera said:I honestly find it baffling how someone with such a limited grasp of history, ethics, and theology—someone who struggles so visibly with basic facts—can have the audacity to weigh in on this topic at all.
To be blunt, about 95% of the "historical" and "ethical" points you’re making are just flat-out wrong. Let's try to untangle this from the beginning...

That is incorrect. Formal education existed for millennia before your religious institutions ever established their school systems.
Contrary to your worldview, the church actually stifled intellectual progress and scientific inquiry, dragging us into a dark age rather than "saving" us from one...

As for the rest of your ramblings regarding Serena Williams and similar topics, I see no reason to even dignify them with a response, as I am unfamiliar with her work. Unlike yourself, I possess a functioning brain that isn't alienated by historical facts, general culture, or logic; I am perfectly capable of forming an opinion based on actual knowledge. I realize that concept might be somewhat abstract for some people...

In contrast to Christian Europe, which began with The Crusades, followed by the persecution of scientists and so-called "witches," and continued through humanitarian efforts (shtefy 🤣) involving the subjugation of Africa, the conquest of much of the globe, and the ethnic cleansing of indigenous peoples in both Americas, Australia, and Oceania—all while imposing its religion—and more recently, Christian America, which carries on this tradition by printing "In God We Trust" on its currency while simultaneously causing the suffering of millions in the pursuit of oil...
You cursed, "enlightened" Roman pagan. They were certainly worse than the "enlightened" Christians who followed them...

😉

👏 Forget the Greek academies. Forget the advanced Far East. Forget the Middle East, which spent centuries writing about those smelly (Christian) Europeans while they were lightyears ahead of us in every scientific discipline imaginable... And since we're on the subject, do you know what happened to them next? They reshaped Christianity (ahem, Islam) and tumbled straight into their own Dark Ages.
Are you really suggesting we should take this seriously?

I guess I just really love these kinds of sweeping, grand statements that don't actually have any real substance behind them... you can totally see how empty they are right here in the following post.

Quincy:

Not quite. I mean, if you think about it... those first schools were around for millennia before your church-run ones even existed. I guess it's just a matter of how you look at history, but yeah, they definitely came first. I don't know, I guess I see things a bit differently... I mean, if you ask me, the Church actually ended up stalling out real progress in education and science. It’s like they threw us right back into a dark age instead of actually pulling us out of one. Maybe that's just my take, but it feels like they held everything back, you know?

What is this even based on? I mean, sure, I could probably sit here all day and rattle off data about when universities were founded around the world, or talk about how libraries work and how knowledge gets passed down through the generations... but it just feels kind of pointless, doesn't it? Especially when you have someone on the other side just declaring their own claim as if that somehow makes it an actual argument. It's just... I don't know, it doesn't really hold water, I guess.

Quincy:

I don't even see the point in addressing the rest of your rambling about Srnavka or whatever else, mostly because I haven't actually followed her work. Not that it matters, I guess. Unlike you, I actually use my brain—which means things like history, current events, and general culture aren't just total mysteries to me. I’m perfectly capable of using actual logic and what I know to form an opinion. I realize that might sound a bit abstract to some people, though.

I mean, she’s basically just spouting nonsense like that, you know? It’s never actually backed up by any real evidence or solid arguments or facts—it’s just this raw, open-ended bitterness and pure intolerance toward anything that doesn't line up with her association's bank account. And honestly, I guess that’s pretty much the main driver for all those groups that get so loud about trying to strip religious studies out of our public schools.

Unlike Christian Europe, which started with the Crusades, then moved into persecuting scientists and "witches," followed by humanitarian work (shoutout to shtefy 🤣) through the enslavement of Africa, conquering huge chunks of the globe, and ethnically cleansing indigenous peoples across both Americas, Australia, and Oceania, while forcing their religion on everyone... plus the modern era of Christian America where they carry on traditions by printing "In God We Trust" on the dollar bills while simultaneously causing millions of innocent people to suffer because of the oil industry.
You absolute damn pagan Roman. They are definitely worse than the enlightened Christians who came after them.

It’s kind of interesting, though, how that same Church actually preserved the very scientific works that people back then were being accused of heresy for. And, uh, the whole idea that the Church was responsible for the enslavement of Africa and the ethnic cleansing of the rest of the world is... well, I'm totally unfamiliar with that. Do you have some kind of connection or proof that shows the Church's actual stance on, say, the Belgian or Dutch atrocities in Africa?

👏 Screw the Greek academies, screw the rise of the Far East, screw the Middle East that was writing about stinky (Christian) Europeans while they were centuries ahead of us in every scientific field... Oh, and since we're on the subject, you know what happened to them? They twisted Christianity (ahem, Islam) and fell straight into their own Dark Ages.
Are you seriously trying to have a debate about this?

No. I just see how some people feel this need to randomly throw Greece into the equation, but I always ask them, like, which specific Greek school of philosophy are they even talking about? We could talk about the Euphrates and Tigris valleys, the cradle of civilization, or we could talk about China, which used to be way ahead of the West in everything, but why would we bring that up when we're discussing religious education in American schools? The Church and faith have seen China pass through different eras as a superpower, and then China became this communist mess where millions went hungry... times change, I guess.

Richard Perez3 said:It absolutely has an impact on others, don't even try to say it doesn't.
That’s just plain wrong. If someone's faith had no influence on others, we wouldn't be sitting here typing about it. Get it? Because if it didn't matter, everyone would just practice their faith just for themselves, and there'd be nothing to debate.

Second thing, let's look at this differently.
Even though, yeah, I’m being a total idiot right now by even getting into this, but whatever—I'm starving and my coworker totally screwed me over by not coming back from lunch, so let's just say this debate is keeping me occupied.
So, you aren't religious. You don't want your kid learning stuff that goes against your values, stuff you don't live by, stuff your personality rejects and your spirit defends.
And you don't want your kid left unsupervised while that happens.
You got a problem with that fact?
Setting religion aside for a second. Let's say you have a son (do you?) and you absolutely loathe the idea of him learning something that clashes with your soul, your stance, or your vibe. Say he learns... I don't know, pick something, I don't care, but let's say you don't want him learning how to crochet.
And you have every right to say he shouldn't learn to crochet.
Everyone else is doing it. Crocheting is trendy.
Your little guy is just sitting outside somewhere, completely ignored.
Would you be okay with that?
And mind you, crocheting fills you with such horror that you'd rather take a crochet needle to the testicle than send him off to do it.

Then some smart-ass or whoever pops up here trying to convince you that crocheting is what pulled the world out of the Dark Ages, because before that... before that, nobody had invented fiber. That wool doesn't exist, leather doesn't exist, synthetic fabrics don't exist, nothing exists, only thread is the real deal.

Like, seriously, give me a break.

Not really. I mean, a kid who doesn't take religion class isn't affected by it at all. There were kids in my school back in the day who opted out, and obviously, we all just chose to go outside and play soccer—that was our elective. But if you're talking about the impact on society as a whole, well, that's a totally different conversation, I guess.

Quincy:

So, you aren't a believer. You don't want your child learning things you don't advocate for, things you don't live by, things your personality rejects and your spirit defends. And you don't want your kid left unsupervised during that time either. Does that fact bother you?

Wait, sorry, what do you mean by "unsupervised"? I feel like I've asked this here before and nobody ever actually answers me—what kind of schools were you guys going to where someone was supposed to watch you when there was a gap in the schedule? Because there were plenty of gaps in my school, and I'm hearing this for the first time.

Quincy:

And now you'll have some Richard Perez3 or some third person popping up here trying to convince you that crochet is the thing that rescued the world from the Middle Ages, because apparently... apparently no one had even invented fiber until then. I mean, come on, please.

Okay, now we're just mixing apples and oranges and... well, whatever else. Someone is watching kids in school while they aren't in the classroom? Like, how, when, where, and—good grief—who?!?

Jason Ortiz5 said:Or we would've gotten out of it a whole lot faster.

Honestly, you know what? Just go call up some historians and ask them how the first colleges and universities actually started throughout the world... then we can get back to this if you really want to have a serious debate about it.

Jason Ortiz5 said:It's nothing like the Crusades, which were actually motivated by humanitarian goals.

I mean, that's a pretty good example, I guess... except it's talking about the 12th century AD, and we're specifically dealing with the Middle Ages here. 😉

Richard Perez3 said:briskbison55, you even realize, right, that with the way you're acting—which I assume you think is just being "enlightened" or whatever—you're actually doing the exact opposite of what you intend? Honestly, man, the whole vibe is just counterproductive, at least in this thread.

I’m not really out here advocating for anything or defending anyone, honestly. I was just reacting initially because it’s an elective course, and then, I guess, I stupidly got worked up over some comments that felt more suited to some totalitarian regime rather than our system here in the 21st century. Especially when the arguments basically boil down to, "Well, I'm not religious, so why should my kids have to deal with a drafty hallway in school where it's freezing and nobody is watching them."

And I know everyone gets it, but maybe they don't want to admit it because, let's be real, being super performative about church or someone else's faith is pretty much "in" lately—even though, realistically, it doesn't actually affect anyone else at all.

Lisa Rivera said:Exactly. Moses wrote down the Ten Commandments in the desert after fleeing ancient Egypt, and we all know that ancient Egypt was little more than a collection of scattered tribes—cannibals with even less law, culture, or self-control than most, much like other early civilizations.
Oops, what kind of "civilizations" am I talking about? I mean savage tribes...

Then the Christian God arrived and enlightened the entire globe through those ten divine commandments 🤔 Fortunately, without them, we would still be living like savages in the Amazon. Or perhaps like those savage, immoral tribes of Buddhists, Taoists, Hindus, Shintoists, or pagans. And don't get me started on the ancient Greeks and Romans, peoples even more unrefined and wild, whose peak achievement was barely pitching a tent over a branch...
They still haven't grasped the concept of good and evil today; they just fight one another—unlike our God-enlightened world. Not to mention those tribes where, instead of the woman being subordinate to the man in the divine hierarchy as seen in Christianity, she is simply subservient to him.
And then there are the tribes where women hold the power; that's called a matriarchy, and they are the wildest and most godless of them all...

I guess I'll just ignore the black-and-white way I phrased my last post and just offer a warning: the Roman Empire basically slaughtered the entire known world just because they wanted to spread their powerful civilization, which was built entirely on slaves serving a tiny group of 'enlightened' people. And then, I suppose I should also ignore the fact that those Romans and Greeks eventually converted to the faith of the very slaves they used to rule.

Jason Ortiz5 said:So, was there really nothing happening between those wild tribes—kind of like a scene out of an Oakland commercial—and that lightning-fast engraving of the "10 Commandments"?
Hey, any historians out there feeling brave?

I mean, you really shouldn't go calling on those history buffs too aggressively... because, I don't know, they might just end up explaining how the first schools actually came from the Church. And honestly? They’d probably be right. Without the Church, I guess humanity wouldn't have even made it out of the Middle Ages, or at least not in the way we know it. It's just one of those things, maybe.

Lisa Rivera said:That's a stellar argument, suggesting that sexual harassment of young girls happens during those unsupervised gaps. I wonder how we ever thought to protest unnecessary scheduling gaps when children might be subjected to THAT while they're unattended...

Religious studies and the church teaching children ethics and morality? What kind of ethics? Discriminating against your neighbor because they don't share your faith, or judging them because they don't feel the same way you do? Or perhaps it's that particular brand of morality where you "sell sheep a bill of goods," telling believers they should live impoverished for earthly riches while being "rich in spirit," all while you drive a brand new Ford and sip wine from a golden chalice—funded by the donations and taxes stripped from the poor and the elderly retirees who can barely afford groceries on the 9th of the month, yet still left $1.75 at the service the other day? Or maybe it's that chauvinistic morality where men rule the planet. A male God, a male Savior, a male priest, a man chosen by God... while women are treated as second-class citizens, mere appendages, deemed unfit to pass down something as "high" as the Word of God. Honestly, please... the very notion of such "ethics and morality" makes me sick...

It’s quite sad to see one self-proclaimed "educator" addressing everyone else with such a condescending tone in every single post, using those question marks... not to mention that this "educator" doesn't seem to care about the welfare of all the children in the school. 🕺
Would you really send half a preschool group out into the hallway for an hour just so you could teach religious studies to the other half?

The Ten Commandments? It’s truly pathetic that a believer needs a deity to instruct them "thou shalt not kill" or "thou shalt not steal" and similar trivialities. For us secularists, we don't require a god to tell us those things are wrong, nor do we need the threat of hell to ensure we behave ourselves.
Ethics and morality don't originate from God; they originate from humanity.
Studies have shown that children raised within religion tend to be less tolerant and more aggressive toward their peers. One might wonder why...
It is because they are indoctrinated from infancy into value systems that insist THEIR god is the only true one, that THEIR believers are the ones headed for heaven, and that THEIR commandments are the absolute truth, rendering all other global religions incorrect. Religious education teaches children discrimination, not morality. True morality is taught by parents and society. And frankly, one has to question the morality of a small believer and their deeply religious parents, who teach the child that non-Christians are destined for hell, telling an innocent child that the devil will torment them simply because they don't believe in a god—that is a lived experience. That is your "ethical and moral" faith and religious education: a foundation for discrimination from the very beginning...

I’m saying this for the third time now—look, we shouldn't be being all exclusive here. Not that I want to sound completely brainless or like some total weirdo for how I phrased it, but seriously... if you actually took my last post at face value, you might need to go get your head checked. My whole point was just to mock the idea that parents need to hold their kids' hands every single second instead of just letting them go out and play. That's all it was.

Quinn:

Religious education and the church teaching kids about ethics and morality? I mean, really... what kind of ethics are we actually talking about here? Is it the kind where you just go around discriminating against anyone who doesn't believe exactly what you believe? Or maybe it's that whole thing where you judge someone just because they don't feel the same way you do? It feels a bit off, I guess. Maybe I'm overthinking it, but it seems like it's more about drawing lines in the sand than actually being a good person.

I mean, no matter how much those judgmental types and similar folks keep harping on about it, the church just doesn't teach that stuff. It’s such a massive issue here—you have people running religious education classes whose own kids don't even attend. It’s honestly just this senseless intolerance for no reason at all. I guess... I don't know, it feels like tolerance should really be the hallmark of you progressive atheists, right? It just makes sense. 😉

Quinn:

It’s just... I don't know, this whole chauvinistic moral code where being "male" is somehow the center of the universe? It’s everywhere. You’ve got the male god, the male savior, the male priest—basically, everything is framed through men, while women are treated like these second-class beings, just some afterthought created from a rib or something. Like, apparently, a woman isn't even fit to hold a position of power or pass down something as "sacred" as the word of God. Honestly, I don't know how people live like that. It actually makes me feel sick, thinking about this kind of "morality and ethics." It's just... ugh.

Yeah, that's definitely a red herring—like, a totally biased way of looking at things without showing even a shred of tolerance for anyone else's perspective. I mean, honestly, this is exactly why we have to make sure everyone actually has the right to choose for themselves... otherwise, these kinds of lies just end up being accepted as the absolute truth. It's scary, really.
Quinn:

The Ten Commandments? I mean, isn't it kind of sad, honestly... like, if someone is actually a believer, shouldn't they just *know* better? It feels a bit heavy-handed, I guess. Like, does God really have to step in and go, "Hey, don't kill people," or "Don't steal stuff"? Those are just basic human decency things, right? It’s almost a little pathetic that those kinds of rules even need to be laid out like that. Maybe I'm overthinking it, or maybe I'm just being cynical, but it feels a bit redundant, you know?

I mean, I could probably ask you... is it actually kind of sad? Like, the fact that we seriously need laws written down just to tell people, "Hey, don't kill anyone" or "Don't steal stuff or you're going to jail." It feels heavy when you think about it. Back then, before all this legal paperwork, there was just... this other kind of justice, I guess. Maybe it was more raw? But I suppose the biggest thing is that we shouldn't be pulling things out of their historical context, right? You can't really judge how things worked back then by looking at them through today's lens. That's just... yeah, it's a lot to wrap your head around.

Quinn:

I mean, we secular folks don't exactly need some deity hovering over us telling us what's right or wrong... we just know, you know? We wouldn't want to do bad stuff anyway. And honestly, we don't need someone threatening us with the devil just to make us act decent. Ethics and morality? They come from people, not from God.

So, I guess that’s why religious studies is an elective in American schools—it's totally up to you.
Quinn:

Studies have actually shown that kids raised in religious environments tend to be less tolerant and more aggressive toward their peers. Just think about why that might be.

And, uh, there are also studies saying that people who believe everything they read online are usually wrong most of the time, too... maybe think about why that happens.

Quinn:

Parents and society are the ones teaching them morality.

Great—less than 10% of highly educated Americans, plus a fair amount of people without even a high school diploma. It’s almost a miracle that kids aren't all just watching MTV or listening to pop music instead of enrolling in trade schools rather than philosophy degrees and other... well, useless stuff.😉

Jason Ortiz5 said:Wait, so before people heard about the Ten Commandments, everyone just did whatever they wanted and everything was fine? Like, they just suddenly discovered the concept of good and evil out of nowhere? Is there a history teacher on here who can give our forum buddy a quick lesson?

I mean, tribes living before the Ten Commandments were basically in the wild, right? It was pretty brutal—way more women per man with zero rights besides cooking and having kids, blood feuds without any actual legal system, basically just survival of the fittest. Of course, some mainstream historians like those Ivy League types might try to argue otherwise and claim things were all controlled and orderly back then, but honestly, those people only call themselves historians in certain circles.😁

And what did we say about being exclusionary earlier?

Jason Ortiz5 said:Honestly, looking at everything they cram into those private religious classes, I’m starting to think the gaps in the daily schedule aren't even the biggest issue. ☕

It just feels gross to me—this idea that religion gets to own the monopoly on morality. I actually heard someone mention in class the other day that most religious folks don't even have a clue what "morality" actually means by definition. Teaching kids to view the world through that specific lens from such a young age? It doesn't do anyone any favors. And let's be real: when you have a subject that basically tells some kids that everyone else—anyone who doesn't fit their mold—is somehow "bad" or less worthy, there is absolutely no reason for that to be happening in our public schools funded by all of us.

Well, personally, I find the exaggeration a bit much. Like, do you have an issue with the Ten Commandments? Of course not. Sure, how someone chooses to follow them is another story, and that’s why we need actual laws, but those general guidelines are just as important as how you're raised at home or your own character. I see religious ed no differently than any other lecture; you get a framework and some principles, and then it's up to you how you use them. I think anyone who views it strictly as brainwashing is totally missing the point and looking at the whole thing through a really narrow lens.