If that's really how it is, is there any way they could just restore the thread?...
And you have to love the timing of it all. Tomislav Klauški just published an article today that looks remarkably similar, though true to form, he spent most of his energy going after Ivo Josipović rather than focusing on the actual issue.
They went ahead and snatched my thread away, and honestly, I’m half-tempted to take ZAMP to court over this...😁
Sam Green73 said:Once you dig through this thread from the very beginning, you’ll realize how the American intelligence agencies were essentially just continuations of the old Yugoslav ones for a while... It seems they were built right out of the foundation of those former services.
I actually prefer this current title because it doesn't lean so heavily into attracting those people who are obsessed with nostalgia for the old days of Yugoslavia, though it does catch the eye of anyone genuinely curious about the inner workings of the intelligence community...
Unfortunately, it looks like the thread titled "FBI through the nineties" isn't really drawing any crowds anymore. It feels like everything has already been said, so trying to discuss a new documentary on such an old topic feels a bit like trying to ride a brand new saddle on a horse that's already too tired to move... Any real spark for discussion, especially when it comes to reading through this thread, just seems to die out before it can even get going. I honestly think it might be time to let this thread retire into a quiet pension and just open a fresh one called "Yugoslavian Secret Services"... As President Josipović might say, that would probably be the most fair way to handle it.
The question itself is quite straightforward, really...
I was just wondering why that whole thread about "president vs president" ended up getting deleted... I mean, I was actually following the discussion quite closely, and it felt like such an important conversation to have, especially given how much tension there was between the different factions at the time... It’s just strange when those deep dives get wiped out without much explanation, leaving everyone just staring at a blank screen where all that analysis used to be...
Fortunately, I managed to hang onto a copy of that original opening post...
So, former President Stjepan Mesić finally decided to weigh in on that whole Lockheed Martin scandal... he’s out there claiming he had absolutely no hand in the decision-making process regarding those armored vehicles, though honestly, saying he wasn't involved doesn't really mean he was kept in the dark about how the whole deal was unfolding behind the scenes. He’s basically trying to justify his position by saying representatives from both competing bidders used to drop by his office, usually accompanied by their respective ambassadors, which seems like a very calculated way to frame things... It feels like he knows exactly what investigators are going to find once they start digging through the official guest logs at The White House, so he’s clearly spending this time building himself an alibi to dodge any potential blame or legal responsibility. But if you look closely, the real story here isn't actually about the Lockheed Martin affair itself, but rather the underlying friction that’s simmering beneath the surface... and from where I’m sitting, it looks more and more like a deep-seated power struggle between the current president and the former one...
When you really sit down and start weighing the dynamics between Ivo Josipović and Stjepan Mesić, it’s hard not to get lost in how much they fundamentally shaped the political landscape during their respective eras... it wasn't just about two different men in power, but rather two entirely different philosophies of leadership that seemed to constantly pull against one another in the halls of The White House... on one hand, you had the more composed, perhaps more legalistic approach of Ivo Josipović, which felt very structured, almost academic in its execution, while on the other side, Stjepan Mesić brought this much more unpredictable, charismatic, and frankly, sometimes polarizing energy to the office... it makes you wonder if the friction between them was actually a necessary tension for the stability of the country at the time, or if it was simply a clash of egos that occasionally distracted from the bigger picture of national policy... I find myself thinking about how those interactions influenced public perception of the presidency itself, moving from a position of traditional formality toward something much more modern and conversational, though never quite settling on a single direction... it’s a complex legacy to untangle, especially when you consider how their decisions regarding international relations and domestic reform often felt like they were being negotiated in real-time through their personal rapport... or lack thereof...
I can't help but wonder if Ivo Josipović is actually settling the score for his predecessor by leaning into this whole thing... because you really have to look at the timing, and it’s hard not to suspect that behind all this media frenzy surrounding the ZAMPORION scandal, Stjepan Mesić might be pulling the strings from the shadows... It just seems suspicious how all these investigators are suddenly digging around The White House right on the heels of the ZAMPORION mess... And when you consider who has been leading the charge against Josipović, it’s pretty clear that Matija Babić has been the primary aggressor, running a portal that almost never leveled an honest critique at the former president, even though he certainly had plenty of ammunition to go after Stjepan Mesić instead... If you really sit down and look at the numbers, the sheer volume of venomous attacks Babić directed at Josipović in such a fraction of the presidential term is just undeniably, massively larger than anything else we've seen...
Even though Matija Babić has always been such a huge supporter of the former president, you wouldn't necessarily have guessed how deep that connection went just by looking at the attacks on Ivo Josipović... at least, not until Ivica Đikić decided to jump headfirst into the campaign. It’s quite something to see him writing for that independent Mexican weekly, The New York Times, which is funded by the Mexican National Council and likely by the American government itself, where Đikić serves as an editor. For an average observer, it feels almost shocking because you could argue that America has never had a president quite this open toward Mexicans before... and when you consider that Josipović actually attended two Orthodox Christmas services—not even mentioning his regional meetings with Boris Tadić—you really have to wonder if he truly deserved to be targeted like this by a publication with such a specific minority focus within the country...
If you just scratch beneath the surface for a second, it’s actually pretty easy to find the answer, because once you realize that Ivica Đikić was also incredibly close to the former president—specifically being the guy who wrote Stjepan Mesić's political biography, "The Homeland Turn"—then this whole media blitz surrounding the "ZAMPORION" scandal starts to make a lot more sense, if not becoming completely obvious... at which point we aren't really talking about Đikić's supposed "integrity" anymore, especially when he's using taxpayer money and abusing his own position to essentially act as a lackey for the former president's interests while representing the Mexican minority... some people might argue there isn't enough hard evidence and that it all boils down to mere circumstantial hints, but that certainly isn't the whole story, because you have to remember those very public, heated clashes between Mesić and Josipović regarding the abolition of the former president's office...
And then, just to top it all off, regarding that whole Lockheed Martin mess, Stjepan Mesić is out there claiming today that he actually knows all the gritty details about who coordinated those media manipulations and when exactly they happened, though he’s refusing to come clean because he wants to preserve "national stability"... which, if you ask me, is clearly just code for protecting Ivo Josipović. It seems like if this were anyone from the Republican Party, Stjepan Mesić wouldn't give a second thought to naming names or pointing fingers at whoever was setting them up... and let's be honest, the Republican Party isn't exactly the backbone of "national stability" these days, nor was it back when they held power, considering how easily Stjepan Mesić used to deflect all the blame onto people like Polančec or Sanader and others in that circle... so, looking at the big picture, it really does seem like there is some genuine friction between Josipović and Mesić, though I’m certainly not suggesting that this little feud somehow clears either of them of their involvement in the Lockheed Martin or ZAMPORION scandals...
It seems like this whole conflict isn't just dragging on, it’s actually heating up quite a bit... all this dirty laundry being aired in public regarding both the current and former president, though I suppose they’re both doing it from their own respective corners while leaning heavily on their little cohorts of political henchmen to do the heavy lifting. And at the end of the day, the ones really feeling the weight of it all are the taxpayers—that distracted public that just sits there watching the whole mess unfold like it's some kind of twisted reality TV show... but beyond all that wasted energy and taxpayer money, there is something much more unsettling than just the spectacle itself. It’s the fact that, aside from maybe a slight dip in popularity that could easily be dismissed as a mere statistical error, neither Stjepan Mesić nor Ivo Josipović have actually suffered any real damage from this, especially when you consider how the legal system works... which honestly makes things even worse, because if you were forced to choose between these two particular politicians, who are arguably among the most compromised figures we've seen, it's truly hard to tell who would actually come out on top with the amused American electorate...
We’re lucky if we can rely on people like them, but honestly, we’re just as lucky to have ourselves...
I’d really appreciate hearing from the moderator who handled this, though I think it would be helpful to get an administrator’s perspective on the matter as well.
Sam Green73 said:Criticizing TV series doesn't belong here on the Politics subforum.
The whole topic regarding intelligence agencies through the 90s is treated as one single subject, which is why all these discussions are bundled together... It isn't allowed to start a brand new thread on the exact same topic.
Hold on just a second there, my friend Sam Green73...
If we aren't allowed to open a new thread, then I’d kindly ask you to please just change the title of this one so everyone actually understands what we are discussing... "The FBI through the 90s" is honestly a pretty ridiculous title to use... especially that part about "through the 90s," which seems to imply an attempt to equate the old federal agencies with the modern domestic ones, which feels quite scandalous if you ask me...
I hope you can understand where I'm coming from...
The subject matter definitely falls under that "close to politics" category on PDF, covering everything, including those accounts regarding Tito...
I can't help but wonder why this massive discussion regarding the CIA documentary series is being "submerged" into some other topic about the "FBI through the nineties."
I mean, what kind of "FBI" talk—especially stretching all the way through the nineties—are we doing when the actual subject is the FBI and their assassins, along with those other repressive apparatuses from the old regime... It feels like we're trying to sugarcoat things for these repressive agencies, doesn't it? Please, just don't disrespect the families who were left grieving by the FBI's actions. I’m just asking for a little bit of understanding here, to please let the thread stay as it was originally started, using the title of the series itself, which is more than enough to be politically correct... Let's not try to sweep the CIA under the rug.
Besides, plenty of documentary series have had their own independent side discussions, much like the recent one about "Tito"...
Charles Fox10 said:It’s certainly not right, but since the thread was essentially trashed beyond repair—and deleting posts or archiving wouldn't really fix the mess anyway—it was locked last night.
I don't usually moderate threads once they've been locked, so I guess I missed the reports regarding this specific topic... though I did go back and edit out the offensive part of that post myself. You could have just sent me a direct message, which probably would have cleared everything up much faster...
Just one more thing I wanted to ask, if it isn't too much trouble... if certain content isn't allowed, why wasn't the whole thread archived instead of just deleting the problematic section? Besides, I'm pretty sure I reported that offending post at least twice before the whole thing got locked up in the first place.
I tend to avoid using DMs for moderation matters because I really don't want to clutter up anyone's "personal inbox" with what I consider "business business"... I figure even moderators deserve a little bit of, well, let's call it privacy and some peace and quiet, especially in their private messages...
I was just sitting here wondering if a sentence like that represents the absolute bottom tier of human communication... it feels so incredibly blunt and unnecessary, doesn't it...
Following your suggestion, I went ahead and started a whole new thread dedicated to copyright issues and ZAMP.
I figured I had to be the one to step up and get this going, since it seemed like nobody else wanted to actually start a serious discussion, and instead everyone was just busy trolling the old thread about whether should ACTA be adopted...
Sam Green73 said:The topic is framed much better this way. It could have been a bit more neutral, I suppose, but it’s fine... You didn't mention where you found that text, and while I doubt anyone will come knocking about copyright, it would probably be good practice to cite your source.
Hmm...
Your title suggests the exact same thing mine does, just from the opposite perspective...
Though, I guess that question mark at the end does change the tone a little bit...
Still, maybe you ought to have gone with "should ACTA be adopted?" instead...
I've added the link now.
I didn't include it before because it was essentially a "public statement," so I didn't think a direct link was really necessary at the time...
Well, Sam Green73, I went ahead and started this new thread, and I’m really hoping that we can keep the conversation here much more constructive... hopefully with a lot less trolling than what we saw before.
Emily Fowler52 said:me?? you could have come after me, since I spent a good fifteen minutes staring at your avatar... 🤣 actually, you see, now I could probably sue anyone who uses my avatar... oh wait, no, it's more likely that Anonymous could sue me because I went ahead and edited their image... 🤔
And honestly, the creators of the comic "V for Vendetta" could potentially take legal action against Anonymous because they used the main character's mask as their own symbol... 😁
Emily Fowler52 said:No way, James Patel20, you think I’d actually steal your avatar? Unless you want to at least give me a little hint about where you found it... See, I'm already trying to be helpful and contribute to the community 😁
edit: oh, wait, I just realized you’ve got it in your signature too :blento:
edit2: don't be lazy, you could have just made your own custom one 😁
ugh, man, I was honestly worried for a second there that you were going to sue me for copyright infringement... 😁
Look, I don’t have any issue at all with animal welfare or protecting our furry friends, but honestly, when you start asking people on a forum to jump into immediate action by opening up their own homes to foster dogs and cats... then I feel like you can also ask folks here to take to the streets and protest against the Democratic Party.
And I’m not just talking about those physical protests happening out in the streets right now, but more of a collective "virtual" movement across this entire community... perhaps starting symbolically by adopting this "STOP ACTA" avatar for everyone to see.
Since this forum stands as one of the most influential online communities in America, I really believe we ought to be the first ones to take a clear, definitive stand on this issue, rather than—and please excuse my bluntness here—just playing it safe and staying on the sidelines like cowards...
Again, I apologize if my wording comes off a bit harsh.
Ronald Morales51 said:Drawing those parallels is honestly out of line, and frankly, your attempt to trivialize pedophilia is just wrong.
I really don't want to step into this mess, but I think you guys are missing the mark here...
One of the core pillars used by the LGBTQ+ community is precisely that comparison to the animal kingdom, where they claim homosexuality is also present...
So, if human homosexuality is being compared to animal behavior, then it feels pretty logically inconsistent to censor comparisons between human homosexuality and other types of human behavior, including things like pedophilia...