Posts by urbantinker8

redridge13 said:urbantinker8, if you really want, I can shoot you an email with the full name of the professor who used to drag herself into our classroom for three years straight just to sit there and stare blankly at the wall for forty-five minutes at a time so go ahead and check with your old faculty buddies to see if I'm telling the truth 🙂

Back in the day, teachers were pretty much out of control—they’d mess with kids, hit each other's fingers, make us stand in the corner, or have us kneel on corn kernels; they’d even rip up our notebooks if they weren't "neat" enough, among other things, but I suppose that doesn't mean those kinds of methods are still being used or even tolerated today.

Go ahead and DM me her name, because I'm genuinely curious which school would actually allow stuff like that to happen nowadays.

swiftranger16 said:Never ☕ 🥱

Fine. So? I get all that, trust me... but I still don't see why the teacher won't just stand by their decision. Maybe there's something they're hiding? 😲

It's actually pretty straightforward:
A few of us—and I suppose I might be one of those rare, slightly crazy types—always stand our ground on a grade and refuse to let anyone push us around.🥳
The rest of them, who are probably much smarter than I am, I guess, just don't want to waste their energy or deal with the stress of looking over their shoulders, so they just give in.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean when you suggest someone would have something to hide in this situation?
Do you honestly believe in those conspiracy theories where someone just sits there for forty-five minutes during an observation without saying a single word?🙄
Yeah, right.
It isn't like she'd risk getting fired a million times over—I mean, someone who's mentally unstable couldn't exactly fake being perfectly fine during a formal evaluation from the school board—but besides that, the parents would probably have her lynched.

Once things settle in this fall, you'll see how the system actually operates. You might want to give your decision some more thought.😒

The teacher in question is just holding his ground...

...but I suppose he’ll only be able to hold it for so long before some aggressive parent decides to start putting on a whole theatrical performance, all because they've convinced themselves their kid, Marko, actually knows the material better than the instructor—even if his failing grade suggests otherwise.
Then comes the inevitable onslaught where they basically steamroll the teacher, the homeroom coach, and the principal, filing formal appeals against the grades, demanding special committee exams, insisting on testing sessions where the original teacher isn't allowed to participate, and eventually calling in the state inspectors and so on...

Anyway, it’s all pretty intense and interesting to watch unfold.🍿

redridge13 said:Wait, what do you mean they couldn't pass them? 😕
I’m from the generation that actually had to deal with those entrance tests—back then, everyone from middle school moved straight into high school. Nobody was left hanging just because they bombed an exam (and obviously, not everyone ended up at a fancy prep school; we had everything from academic academies to vocational trade schools).

I guess there were just way too many people aiming for those top-tier prep schools only to realize they couldn't actually pass the entrance exams, mostly because all those perfect high school GPAs didn't really mean much when it came down to the actual testing.
I suppose if they hadn't gone ahead and scrapped those entrance exams in favor of just looking at GPA, a huge chunk of these students—and by extension, their parents—might have ended up stuck in this cycle of lifelong frustration and genuine burnout, though I guess that's just how things tend to go sometimes when the system shifts.
I guess it all really started coming to a head when those petty extortion schemes and little five-dollar shakedowns just became so widespread, and now, well, I suppose we’ve finally arrived at this current mess.☕

Michelle Nelson4 said:Are we parents really the problem just because we push for top grades!? Honestly, I don't know how some people manage to flip the logic like that. The issue with grade inflation was caused by the school system, not the parents. The system scrapped entrance exams for high schools but failed to introduce a single objective grading standard or any meaningful oversight for teachers in elementary schools. How can someone be so detached from basic logical reasoning—stubbornly focusing on the symptoms while completely ignoring the root cause? It's the same old diagnosis: total lack of perspective.

FYI, MIT isn't some mystery location to me, far from it. But, if I had to choose, an engineering major would have been my preference. ☕

I think they're very, very mistaken.☕
The reason entrance exams were phased out is that so many students couldn't pass them, mostly because they had spent eight years being pushed toward straight A's without much real support or substance behind those grades.

Michelle Nelson4 said:Are we parents really the problem just because we push for top grades!? Honestly, I don't know how some people manage to flip the logic like that. The issue with grade inflation was caused by the school system, not the parents. The system scrapped entrance exams for high schools but failed to introduce a single objective grading standard or any meaningful oversight for teachers in elementary schools. How can someone be so detached from basic logical reasoning—stubbornly focusing on the symptoms while completely ignoring the root cause? It's the same old diagnosis: total lack of perspective.

FYI, MIT isn't some mystery location to me, far from it. But, if I had to choose, an engineering major would have been my preference. ☕

I honestly wonder why.
I mean, who wouldn't want a career working within our current educational system?🙂

nimblelynx7 said:That’s exactly how it should be. Entrance exams for every single high school. Once you have those exam scores, you compare them against their middle school GPA. After you cross-reference the results with those grades...
😒

God willing. PLEASE, GOD WILLING:🙂

redridge13 said:...we seriously need to start keeping a much closer eye on those schools and teachers who are showing the biggest red flags🙂

I’m honestly just terrified that if we actually tried to implement something like that, our local teacher unions would stage a full-blown revolution on us😁

And don't even get me started on getting rid of entrance exams for high school and college—that was hands down the single dumbest move they could have made

So true.
And it's all just to avoid any friction, or rather, to go easy on the students—or the parents, really—since everyone basically needs to get into a good high school and eventually make it to college. 👏

Daniel Gomez10 said:So, I see the Mayor is bringing up all these different "reasons" for the delay...
I think the most believable excuse I've heard so far is this one: some mom is currently on maternity leave with her second baby and wants to stay by the beach as long as possible—even through September and October if the weather stays nice. She’s basically asking to push back the older kid's start date just so they can stay together and she doesn't have to deal with being back in Washington, D.C. yet. 🙂

I know them from a few different places, I guess.🙂

Harold Cook2 said:So, my little guy is supposed to start school next year. By September, he’ll be about six or seven months old—which sounds crazy, I know—but the kid is just a total whirlwind. He’s hyperactive, always on the move, and honestly? School isn't going to be his vibe. I know there's still plenty of time before then, but let's be real, I don't see him slowing down anytime soon.
Is there any way we can just push his start date back to the following year?

I suspect that unless you have a legitimate, objective reason backed up by a pediatrician and a specialized evaluation team, you probably can't just request a deferment for a child born in January. 🙂(I think yours might be a couple of weeks younger than mine, if I recall correctly.)
To be honest, almost every kid seems to be running around like they're on caffeine when they're five. Don't sweat it too much.😁

hiddendriver34 said:You're totally overlooking how much pressure a principal can put on teachers during those faculty meetings to get them to raise their hands.😁

Exactly.😁
Quincy:

I suppose I should probably mention that I’ve been thinking quite a bit about rhinoceroses lately, though I’m not entirely sure why it’s on my mind at this particular moment, maybe it’s just because of how they carry themselves, that sort of heavy, deliberate presence that seems almost out of place in our frantic, modern world. It’s a strange thing to dwell on, I guess, but there’s something about that singular focus they have, an unhurried way of moving through space that feels almost meditative if you look at it from a certain angle, although I realize that sounds a bit silly when you consider how much damage they can actually do if they lose their temper. I was reading somewhere—or perhaps I just imagined reading it—that their skin is like a suit of organic armor, which makes me wonder about our own lack of such natural defenses in a society that feels increasingly abrasive, but then again, maybe that’s just my own tendency to overanalyze things that don't really require it. Anyway, I’m just rambling now, I suppose, but the thought persists. urbantinker8 says: I suppose I’m just hoping there are some truly rigorous and high-energy schools out there somewhere.

I guess there are quite a few enthusiasts out there, if you ask me.
It’s possible there might be some traces left over, though I guess that’s assuming anything remains at all.

I suppose neither one of them really plays any meaningful part when it comes to actually pushing these reforms through, I guess.

Quinn:

feralmoose32 I guess I should probably start by saying that... well, things are shifting, aren't they? It feels like we're all just sort of watching the pieces move on the board, maybe waiting to see where the dust settles. I don't know, it’s hard to pin down exactly how one should feel about it all, but there's definitely a sense that the old ways of doing things might not hold up quite like they used to. Perhaps it's just my own perspective, or maybe I'm overthinking the whole situation, but I can't help but notice how much the landscape seems to be changing around us. It makes you wonder, I suppose, about what comes next and whether we're actually prepared for it, though I suspect most people are just trying to keep their heads down and carry on as usual. I guess you could say that boys and girls are just everything, really—they’re like the sky and the earth all rolled into one, whether they’re three years old, six, fifteen, or even thirty. It’s funny how that works, I suppose, how that sense of being the center of the universe stays with you through every single stage of growing up. 😬

I suppose you could say I'm generalizing a bit, though I guess that’s just how my mind tends to wander when I'm trying to make sense of things. It’s easy to fall into those broad strokes, isn't it? Maybe I am being a little too sweeping with my observations, but sometimes it feels like the only way to capture the general shape of the argument without getting lost in every single tiny detail. I don't mean to be reductive, per se, but I tend to look at the bigger picture more than the individual pieces, I suppose.😁

Quinn:

Michelle Nelson4 I suppose I should probably mention that... I don't know, I'm not sure I see it that way. I have a son, and since he’s going to be about six and a half in two years, the idea of delaying anything just isn't even on my radar, I guess. I suppose if that were some kind of universal rule, every guy out there would probably just end up pushing their whole timeline back by a year, wouldn't they? It feels like that's how it would play out, I guess.

I suppose I’m inclined to agree with that.

I guess, if you ask me, deferrals should really be reserved for those folks who are actually facing some legitimate, objective hurdles. It feels like the burden of making that call shouldn't fall on the parents at all; instead, the responsibility ought to lie with a professional team of experts who can actually assess the situation properly.
So, he’s heading off to school next year, and if I’m being honest, it feels like that preschool phase was way past its expiration date for him in terms of actually learning anything new; he just wasn't being challenged there anymore, I guess.
He seems to have this curious little mind that’s already wandering far beyond what they cover in preschool—you know, things like reading, writing, basic math, languages, history, and just about everything else they haven't quite introduced in the classroom yet. I guess he's just naturally ahead of the curve, maybe.
So then, I suppose they just go ahead and handle things on their own, without really asking for any input or waiting for permission. I guess I'm just starting to realize that my own... well, everything, feels a bit unsettled lately. It’s hard to put a finger on it, really, but there's this sense of things being slightly out of alignment, if that makes any sense. Maybe it's just me overthinking things again, which I suppose is a bit of a habit of mine, but I can't help feeling like I'm still trying to find my footing in all of this. I was just sitting here thinking about those old work permits from back in '83... you know, those little slips of paper that used to dictate everything. It’s funny how much things have shifted since then, I guess. Everything felt so much more tactile, almost physical, back then. Now, everything is just digital noise, which I suppose is more efficient, but there was something about having those actual documents in hand. Maybe I'm just getting nostalgic for a time when bureaucracy actually required a filing cabinet instead of a cloud server. Anyway, just a random thought crossing my mind today.🤣

hiddendriver34 said:

I’m just going to say it: I am absolutely, 100% fruity. And honestly? I couldn't care less if people find that weird. There's this weird pressure sometimes to act all stoic and "normal," but life is way too short to spend it pretending you aren't exactly who you are. It’s like trying to force a square peg into a round hole—it’s exhausting, it doesn't work, and you end up just denting the wood. I’d much rather just embrace the chaos and be my colorful, unapologetic self. If being "fruity" means living authentically, then hand me the fruit basket! kaže:
Good grief, who on earth brought up Shakespeare in second grade?😕

That article at the link? Total clickbait. It’s clearly written by someone who doesn't have the slightest clue how things actually work on the ground—especially when it comes to vocational schools and trade programs.
These projects aren't some massive, all-consuming undertakings. They’re actually done in bits and pieces—mostly just during class time with a teacher right there to help guide the way.
I mean, let’s be real—even the most hardcore literature professors probably aren't sitting down and reading the entire Odyssey from cover to cover. It's like saying you've read every single page of the Encyclopedia Britannica just to prove you're smart. Most scholars just dive into the heavy-hitting chapters or the specific parts that actually matter to their research. It’s all about the highlights and the deep dives, not necessarily grinding through every single line.😁
The same goes for the heavy hitters like Shakespeare, Drábek, Gundel, and Zoran—they’re all in the same boat.
Look, reading a quick excerpt for homework isn't exactly rocket science. It’s not like you're climbing Everest; if you have some analysis or study guides sitting right under the text to guide you, it’s practically effortless. But here's the catch: you actually have to put in the work. You can't just skim the words; you have to actually turn your brain on and engage with what's on the page. And let's be honest—that part? That’s usually the exact moment students decide they'd rather be doing literally anything else.

Look, I’ve been in this game long enough to know exactly what I’m looking at. I can tell pretty quickly whether a kid is actually breaking a sweat or just going through the motions. When you've spent this much time in the classroom, you develop a sixth sense for distinguishing between a genuine, heavy-duty effort and someone just doing the bare minimum for their age group.😉

I’m honestly struggling to follow your logic here. What exactly are you trying to argue? Are you actually suggesting that the Shakespearean approach... Judith So, here’s the million-dollar question: should you actually sit down and read the whole book for your assignment, or can you just get away with reading the SparkNotes? Honestly? It depends on how much you value your sanity (and your GPA). Look, if you’re just trying to pass a quick quiz where they ask "what color was the protagonist's hat?", sure, a summary will save you three hours of your life. You can skim the plot points, grab some character names, and call it a day. It’s like looking at a photo of a burger instead of actually eating it—you know what it looks like, but you aren't getting any of the flavor. But if you actually want to *understand* what the author is doing—the subtext, the pacing, the way the dialogue hits you—then you’ve gotta read the thing. Reading the full text is like watching a movie in 4K versus looking at a blurry thumbnail on YouTube. There’s a massive difference in the experience. When you read the actual prose, you catch those little details and emotional beats that a summary completely glosses over. Those are usually the exact things teachers bring up in essays to see who actually did the work and who just Googled the ending. My take? If it’s a classic that’s actually decent, give it a fair shot. If it’s something truly soul-crushing, maybe lean a bit harder on the study guides to help you navigate the slog. But don't skip the journey entirely if you can help it. You'll regret it when you're staring at a blank essay page wondering why everyone is talking about symbolism you never even saw.

I mean, if you're really out there advocating for fragmented reading... Judith If you're bringing up those other works mentioned by MLA, then I honestly don't know who you think you're arguing with. It’s like trying to debate the weather—everyone is already on board with that side of things.

I think I mentioned this before, but I’m really not trying to push anyone to go out and read, say, everything Judith has written from cover to cover.
I mean, I guess my point is just that she isn't even being taught in its entirety in most schools anymore, so I don't really see why we need all these grand, sweeping reforms or those sensationalist links everywhere. It feels like a bit much, maybe.

On top of all that, I was also asking about what the actual criteria are for getting new pieces added to the lists.
I suppose we really ought to look into modernizing the required reading list, though I don't see much point in rushing things. It’s mostly just a matter of figuring out what our specific criteria should be, I guess.
I guess we could probably add a few more layers beyond just the usual old versus new, hard versus easy, or boring versus interesting dynamics... maybe there’s something else we’re missing in there, though I can't quite put my finger on it yet.🤷

Chloe Roberts2 said:It really isn't. Pushing your brain a little isn't a bad thing, and I never said there shouldn't be any effort at all—I just think the effort needs to be proportional.
A little mental heavy lifting to actually learn something is fine, but a "little effort" shouldn't feel like mindless torture or an endless slog through boredom.

Look, if 90 percent of students find a required reading way too dense or overly complicated, then the issue lies with the book, not the kids.

I think we need to distinguish between healthy engagement and total burnout, and you seem to be blurring that line. Shakespeare is simply not appropriate for this level of effort or as a logical next step in their reading progression.

Why wouldn't we make things more accessible? We aren't asking them to just scroll on their phones all day; we're asking for reading material that actually makes sense for them.

I'm dropping this link here again, just in case you truly believe Shakespeare belongs in a second-grade curriculum.
http://www.nytimes.com/news/education/reading-lists/.../1534121/

To reiterate, Shakespeare will still be read, but it should happen during structured classroom time, guided by a teacher. THAT is what's appropriate.

Good grief, who was even talking about Shakespeare for second graders?😕

The article in that link is pretty sensationalist, I think, and it seems to have been written by someone who clearly doesn't understand how things work, like in vocational high schools, for instance.
The works mentioned are usually handled in fragments, mostly during class periods with a teacher's help.
I doubt even the most advanced honors students are sitting down to read the entirety of Homer.😁
The same goes for Shakespeare, Frost, Whitman, or any of those other classics.
Reading a specific excerpt for homework isn't exactly a massive undertaking, especially when you have analysis provided right underneath, but it does require spending a bit of time and actually engaging your mind, which, I guess, is what most students tend to avoid.

Having spent plenty of time in the classroom myself, I feel like I can get a pretty decent handle on what constitutes a small, medium, or large amount of effort for a given age group.😉

Chloe Roberts2 said:Shakespeare and his other works will still be part of the curriculum during class. It seems you haven't been paying very close attention to the syllabus.

And regarding all this talk of "effort," nobody is actually suggesting we abolish school or eliminate hard work entirely; it’s just that reading Shakespeare isn't exactly tailored to what students want right now. The school itself should be designed around the students.
The level of effort required needs to match the actual capacity of a student's brain.

We aren't subsistence farmers anymore. Digging in a garden or working the soil isn't comparable to modern learning, even though people love to draw those kinds of parallels. We're still stuck with this outdated mindset that learning has to be an exhausting grind, much like how our ancestors thought they were accomplishing something just by digging holes in the dirt all day.

No, that's not it. Learning needs to be adapted to the individual. That doesn't mean we scrap education or knowledge; it means school should actually be a place where kids learn something. But they shouldn't be forced to slog through assigned reading if it's just too much for them.

The whole point of literature isn't to glorify American heritage or serve as some tool for national pride. The goal is to cultivate the student. You won't achieve that by forcing them to finish a list of books if they're never going to pick up another book again once they graduate. The act of reading is what matters; the specific content is secondary.

Learning doesn't have to be a struggle. You won't actually achieve anything just by cramming. Throughout elementary school, high school, and even now at university, I found that simply reading the text and keeping up with my assignments was more than enough.

I suppose if you give them something just a tiny bit more challenging, they’d have to put in a little extra work and maybe strain those mental gears just a touch, which doesn't seem like a bad thing to me.
If we mostly serve up stuff that requires almost zero intellectual heavy lifting, then I guess you have to wonder where the actual growth or progress is supposed to happen.

We are talking about high school, after all.
The absolute peak of their daily mental engagement shouldn't really be leveling up in a video game or obsessing over their status on Facebook.

I suppose I should probably mention Miss Daisy, though I’m not entirely sure where to start with her, really. It’s one of those things that feels like it needs a bit of context, if you follow me, because just dropping her name doesn't quite capture the whole picture, I guess. She has this way about her—it's hard to pin down, maybe a little bit whimsical, perhaps a little bit weary too, depending on how you look at it. I was thinking about it the other day while I was sitting around, and it struck me how much she reminds me of those old characters you see in classic Americana films, the kind that don't say much but somehow carry the entire weight of the scene just by existing in it. It’s a strange feeling, isn't it? To be reminded of someone through a mere thought, almost like a lingering scent or a song you can't quite shake. I don't mean to ramble, truly, but there's a certain gravity to her presence that makes you want to slow down and actually consider things for once, which is a rare thing in this fast-paced world we've built for ourselves. Anyway, that's just my two cents, I suppose. kaže:
I guess you’re asking if I know any Americans who struggle with proper grammar or maybe trip up on their verb tenses? It’s funny how that works, because I feel like everyone runs into someone like that eventually, though I suppose it depends on how much you pay attention to the way people actually speak in everyday life. Maybe some folks just haven't quite mastered the nuances of the language, or perhaps they're just in such a rush that the rules don't seem to matter all that much to them, which I guess is pretty common. I don't really have anyone specific in mind, but it seems like there's always someone around who might get a little tangled up in their own sentences.

Sure thing.
Wait, weren't you the one? I mean, I could be mistaken, I guess, but I had this vague feeling that it was actually you, though I might just be misremembering how we left things. 😕
Starting with those folks from the Midwest who always seem to talk about themselves in the third person... I guess I was thinking about the radio earlier, or maybe just the concept of it, though I suppose that’s a bit of a stretch. It’s funny how much things change, isn't it? You sit there, maybe in a car somewhere in the Midwest or just idling in a driveway in a quiet suburb, and you realize how much we rely on those frequencies just to feel like there's someone else out there, even if it's just some DJ in a studio in Chicago playing a song you barely recognize. It’s a strange, almost meditative way to pass the time, listening to the static and the signal drift, wondering if anyone else is tuning in at the exact same moment. It makes me think about how we used to consume everything, more deliberately, I suppose, whereas now it all feels so fragmented and immediate. But then again, maybe I'm overthinking the whole thing., I suppose I saw it, if you could call that a thing., I suppose I’ve been sitting here thinking about things, drifting through various ideas and little fragments of thought, though I can't quite pin down exactly what triggered it all. It feels like one of those moments where everything just sort of hangs in the air, maybe a bit nebulous, perhaps just a collection of wandering reflections that don't necessarily lead to a grand conclusion, but they exist nonetheless.I guess you occasionally run into people from certain parts of the country who just haven't quite mastered sibilance, which leads to all sorts of phonetic confusion and odd pronunciations. I guess you could say it’s right there in the palm of your hand. I guess I’m just sitting here thinking about how things could go either way, or maybe it’s just one thing or the other, though sometimes it feels like there isn't much of a choice at all, really. It’s funny how we frame everything as an "either/or" situation when, in reality, life is usually a messy middle ground that we try to force into neat little boxes, which probably doesn't help anyone, but I suppose that's just how we're wired, I guess. on footI guess I should probably mention that things over in Seattle feel a bit different lately, though maybe I’m just overthinking it. It’s funny how you can live in a place for so long and then suddenly notice the subtle shifts in the atmosphere, almost like a slow tide coming in. I was thinking about that the other day while grabbing coffee, and it occurred to me that everything is constantly in flux, isn't it? Not that I'm saying anything specific is wrong, per se, it’s more just an observation on how much things change when you aren't looking directly at them. Anyway, I might be rambling, but it seems like we're all just navigating these little transitions together.😉 I guess I'm just wondering who exactly is doing the greeting here. I guess I’m just thinking about everyone, all of them, really. I mean, I suppose it’s really aimed at those folks who aren't quite sure yet, right? I guess I’ve been staring at this car for a while now, and I can't quite decide if it's actually decent or just... something. It’s hard to say, really. Maybe I’m just overthinking the whole thing, but there's a certain vibe to it that feels a bit ambiguous. I suppose it could work, depending on what you're looking for, though I have my doubts. I suppose I should probably start by saying that I’m not entirely sure how to frame this, or if there is even a point in bringing it up at all, but I’ve been sitting here thinking about that whole "either/or" dilemma we were discussing earlier. It’s funny, in a way, how we tend to get stuck in these rigid binaries when life rarely seems to function that way, though I guess that’s just human nature, isn't it? Maybe I’m overthinking things, which I know is a bit of a habit of mine, but there’s something about the way we weigh options—like choosing between two equally frustrating paths—that feels so incredibly familiar. It’s almost like being caught between a rock and a hard place, or perhaps more accurately, trying to decide between two different flavors of the same headache. I don't really have a definitive stance on it, and I certainly wouldn't want to claim I do, but I find myself wondering if the middle ground isn't actually where the most interesting stuff happens. Anyway, that's just a wandering thought, I suppose. I guess this car... maybe it's worth a look, though I can't say for sure..
I suppose there might be an example regarding exports, if you're looking for one.
It doesn't really matter if someone claims they only use that casual style when they're hanging out at home, I guess, because those little slips and mistakes tend to bleed into everything else anyway, even when they're trying to be professional or drafting some formal memo for work.

I suppose I should probably mention Miss Daisy, though I’m not entirely sure where to begin with her, really. It’s one of those things that feels like it needs a bit of context, I guess, because she isn't exactly someone you can just categorize without some hesitation. She has this way about her—it's hard to pin down, maybe—where everything feels a bit more deliberate than it actually is, if that makes any sense. I was thinking about it the other day while I was grabbing a coffee over in Seattle, and it struck me how much she reminds me of certain old-school characters you see in classic Americana films, the kind that don't quite fit the modern tempo of things. It’s a strange sort of presence, I suppose, somewhat quiet but somehow impossible to ignore once you’ve actually noticed her. I might be overthinking it, though; I have a tendency to do that, which I know people have pointed out before. Regardless, there's just something about her essence that lingers, in a very subtle, unassuming way. kaže:
I'm not entirely sure if you actually sat down to go through the reading list, or if maybe you just caught a headline somewhere claiming that Brill would be featured in there.
I guess you could say that pretty much everything on this list is a modern classic, so they all probably have some level of actual value if you think about it.

I mean, obviously I went through the list.
I don't know, I guess the whole phrase "modern classic" just feels a little bit... off to me, if that makes sense. It’s one of those terms that gets thrown around so much lately that it almost loses its weight, you know? It feels like people use it when they can't quite decide if something is actually good or if it’s just trendy, so they settle on this middle ground that doesn't really mean anything at all. Maybe I'm just being picky, but there's something about the way it's tossed around in reviews and marketing that feels a bit hollow, like it's trying too hard to sound important without actually committing to being either truly modern or truly classic. I suppose it's just a thought.😵
I suppose there’s a certain argument to be made that you really need a bit of distance—a decent stretch of time, at least—before you can truly wrap your head around the actual artistic value of a piece of work. It’s like, maybe we just don't have the perspective yet, I guess, because everything feels so immediate and loud right now, whereas time has this way of filtering out all the temporary noise and leaving only what actually matters.
I’m not exactly saying I want the required reading list to stay frozen in time just as it is now—not by a long shot—but rather that it probably should have been completely overhauled a long time ago, if you ask me.
I mean, I’m just sitting here thinking that there really ought to be some sort of objective criteria in place, I guess. It feels like we're just drifting without any real standard to lean on, which probably isn't ideal if we want anything to actually make sense.

Chloe Roberts2 said:And who exactly gets to decide what makes a work valuable? It's all subjective anyway.

The whole point of required reading is to get kids to actually read, not necessarily to lecture them. Besides, you develop recursive thinking through the act of reading itself.
That's why reading matters. As for anyone claiming there's a translation out there, I haven't been able to find one.

Here's an article from West Georgia. http://www.westga.edu/~mmcfar/The%20Role%20of%20Active%20Reading.htm

Active reading is recursive—it's a process where the reader circles back to territory they've already covered to reach a deeper, more thorough interpretation (128). Since producing decent literary criticism relies on being a decent reader, this is precisely the kind of skilled reading we need to cultivate during this course.

Well, yeah, it is subjective, I guess, though there might be some sort of criteria involved.
you can't just toss random authors into a canon simply because they happen to be trending right now.

Or maybe you can.🤷

Sarah Hall53 said:Honestly, I’m the type of person who spends every single winter day 50 miles trudging along icy sidewalks, so you wouldn't believe how much I love it when we get a sudden snow day. It’s such a relief not having to carry my head around in a bag just to stay warm.
But, if I’m being real, working with kids in the winter is actually way easier than during the summer—you know, when their brains basically melt from the heat. And let’s face it, those summer heatwaves are way more frequent and unbearable than the cold. (Then again, if they’d just install AC in every single classroom—especially in that cursed glass hallway where my lungs feel like they're burning the second I step out of an air-conditioned room—I might actually consider working all summer instead of begging for a break in the winter. ☕ But we all know we won't see AC in these classrooms until pigs fly, especially since at one school I practically have to beg for every single piece of chalk ☕ )

And what about you, buddy? 🙂

As for the snow... I remember times when classes were actually canceled because of it.
there was once a week where school just didn't happen (the last time I recall that happening was back in 2013, I think.).
on the other hand, I don't think a single hour of class has ever been canceled because of the heat.

silentraven6 said:The list has been put up for public comment; the document itself makes it pretty clear that it's open for discussion.

I have to admit, I haven't really encountered the term "trash literature" before.

So, well... maybe that’s something worth considering.
If the stuff being pushed by the SHK is totally uninteresting, out of touch, and just doesn't click with kids, then maybe—and I'm just speculating here—trash literature might actually be what grabs their attention.🤷

I’m not joking around; I honestly mean that.

And as for those public debates...
whenever someone dares to suggest that we probably shouldn't just force certain books on everyone simply because they happen to be trendy, cool, or easy to digest, they get branded as some sort of narrow-minded, outdated dinosaur who's stuck in the past, supposedly only pushing certain authors because they fit a specific political agenda.🙄
Discussions like that always seem to turn into these endless tug-of-wars that never truly reach a conclusion.
The whole reform process will probably stay "in progress" for years to come.

Sarah Hall53 said:Don't forget about that teenage sweat—I was a mess in 7th and 8th grade, but you? You were probably struggling through every single year😬
I remember this one year where the heatwaves hit us by May, and honestly, we were just barely surviving, counting down the days until summer break. I walked into my very first period class as a sixth grader, and the kids were already sitting there in clothes soaked with sweat, hair matted to their heads. They’d basically finished sweating before they even made it through the school doors. It really makes you wonder if we actually have to put them through this torture—and I mean all of them, from age 12 up to 18, though I felt especially bad for those little ones. And now, because of some "special projects"—which usually just means the same twenty overachieving kids in the whole district who actually want to do something and end up being the only ones you can rely on (or fight over who gets to recruit them first)—they’re suggesting we extend this misery for an extra two weeks...

edit:
We end up doing the same thing until sometime in early July, or if not that, then we're stuck grinding through paperwork during our regular hours at the school. But even then, after you finish a meeting, you find yourself hunting for the coldest possible corner in the parking lot, clutching a liter of water, just trying to write in peace and QUIET while surrounded by nothing but the scent of your own sweat.

😁
for me (and honestly, for the students too), the most intense part of the whole debate is definitely dealing with melting away in 95-degree weather.
we consistently have at least a few people who are absolutely livid about it.☕
being trapped in a stinky classroom for three hours, not allowed to eat or drink, and ideally not even allowed to go to the restroom—plus, it's supposedly better to keep all the windows shut so nobody complains that the noise outside is distracting them during an exam.
pure bliss, really.🙂

Karen Richardson3 said:From what I gather, there’s an active public debate going on right now, so you could always take your question directly to the American language and literature task force—basically the people who actually put him on the shortlist in the first place. Honestly, you'll probably get a much more sensible answer from them than from us, since they're the ones who can explain exactly why they think a song lyric intended for musical performance belongs on a list of potential reading assignments.

Personally, I think there's a real opportunity for a killer classroom session if an English teacher decides to dive into a text like that.

At the end of the day, everything boils down to one fundamental question: what is the actual goal of teaching American language and literature?
I'm actually a big fan of the shift being attempted with this curriculum reform, because I truly believe the point of studying our language isn't just about memorizing trivia about "classic" masterpieces or reciting literary theory definitions.
To me, the core mission is literacy—developing the ability to read deeply, which then serves as the foundation for building critical thinking skills.

It honestly seems way more meaningful to take a work that some might even dismiss as "trash" and have a class where kids actually debate the characters, their motivations, and their actions—analyzing the plot and defending their stances using evidence from the text—rather than just forcing them to endure 16th-century classics written specifically for a 16th-century audience.

Fine, but then just say it out loud: let's add this to the required reading list as an example of trash lit and let the kids debate it until they're blue in the face.👍
Instead of just haphazardly tossing in various "authors" without any real criteria or cohesive plan... just as examples of... nothing, really.
It seems like as long as it's modern and easy to digest, the actual value doesn't matter much.

Sarah Hall53 said:It’s funny how nobody seems to be talking about short breaks anymore—instead, everyone is obsessed with extending the school year itself. Like, imagine stretching the whole thing from September 1st all the way through August 31st just to squeeze in two extra weeks for some "project-based learning" nonsense.
Honestly, that sounds like a total nightmare. Imagine being stuck in a classroom until July 1st when it’s a blistering 100 degrees outside. And before anyone starts lecturing me about how school calendars work in other parts of the world or in more developed Western countries—please, just do a quick Google search to see what kind of heatwaves we deal with here in the States during July and August.

🙏

Sarah Hall53 said:Since parts of these schools were basically designed like giant greenhouses—I honestly see some major issues with keeping classes running through July 1st. I mean, we’re barely even making it to mid-June as it is, just gasping for air, especially during those afternoon sessions.

...and let's not forget those summer makeup classes that would probably be held until August 1st in 105-degree weather.
We'll all just pass out from heatstroke, I suppose.🙄

I mean, personally, it doesn't matter too much to me since our board meetings always run until July 15th, so we're already sitting in a greenhouse at 95 degrees anyway, but imagine adding thirty students to a single room for five or six or seven hours a day in that heat...🙂

silentraven6 said:How can you look at the New Wave just through a musical lens and not a poetic one? What does that even mean?

Both Springsteen and Dedic meet the requirements. I'm not exactly a huge Springsteen fan, but I won't deny his poetic value.

There are some hints that many Academy works were inspired by Italian melodrama—researchers are still looking for proof of whether they softened things up. They certainly use a libretto-style framework.

Well, I'm certainly not denying the poetic value of various authors, so perhaps we could just use a more general term, like "libretto."
It's just that, if we follow this logic in an American English curriculum, I'm a little unsure where that leaves us, especially since our primary criterion for students seems to be almost entirely based on their capacity for reception and cognitive engagement.🤷

I wonder, what comes next?
Is it Hulic?🤷

Karen Richardson3 said:Well, for one thing, he’s a definitive icon of the New Wave, and because of that, he serves as this vital piece of musical social commentary that kept the consciousness of the urban American youth at the time alive and kicking.

And also, unlike a bunch of those self-proclaimed "legends" who were churning out poetry back then—the kind of guys my historian buddies shoved into anthologies—he actually wrote songs that kids today still genuinely love to listen to. Meanwhile, most of that anthology stuff hasn't been touched by a soul in years, and honestly, nobody cares about it; it’ll probably all get tossed out of the anthologies the second those old editors retire and some new crew takes over the reins.

By the way, it's not Springsteen INSTEAD OF Dante. There's really no need to swap out arguments or start mourning the idea that people won't know the classics anymore.

I never actually said it was instead of Dante.
There really isn't any need to jump down my throat or start lecturing me with these historical-sociological deep dives.🥱
The fact that he represents the New Wave matters to me, I suppose, from a musical standpoint, rather than a literary one.

silentraven6 said:When we pick literary works intended for full reading, we look at a few specific things: how well they match the student's
cognitive reach, a healthy mix of genres (poetry, prose, drama), poetic excellence,
overall literary merit, and a balanced blend of American and international classics, including
both anthological staples and contemporary hits.

The whole goal here is to focus on the student's own choice of what to read. We want to spark a genuine hunger for books—reading for pure pleasure, reading to escape, and ultimately building lasting reading habits and a true sense of literacy.

This list of suggested readings was put together using several core principles. First,
we focused on texts that align with the culturally dominant idea of what constitutes "great literature."
Second, we made sure to only include texts that are actually suitable for a student to tackle independently from start to finish.
Because of that, you won't find many massive pillars of world or American literature on this specific list, like the Bible, Homeric epics,
Don Quixote, Judith, or those classic tales about fishing or being a slave. That doesn't mean students won't
encounter them at all; rather, they'll get to know them through their most significant passages or excerpts, which is pretty standard in American
classroom practice. So, please don't mistake this list for a formal syllabus or a complete overview of
"required curriculum."

I really want to emphasize again: this list of suggested texts for full reading isn't some closed, mandatory,
canonical set of rules. It’s intentionally open because we believe that focusing on the student and respecting
the professional autonomy of the teacher are the absolute foundations of a high-quality education.

Here are the criteria:

I'm with him on that.👍[/i]

silentraven6 said:Do you even realize that Springsteen isn't listed as MANDATORY?

And it’s not about who's more popular or who "deserves" what.

It’s about assessing feasibility given how language evolves and the general zeitgeist. It's also the fact that Academy literature doesn't always transition easily to university levels, and to actually read those Academy works, you have to head to the library and inhale the dust of the Merriam-Webster. Plus, you need a solid grasp of history.

Someone might pick him up later and read his entire discography, and we should be happy if that happens. But by forcing something onto kids that they aren't even equipped to understand, we're just pushing them away from reading altogether.

If we have to resort to that kind of cheap tactic—using Springsteen as some sort of bait just to get them to pick up a book—then fine, whatever. But let's be real: nobody is ever going to erase Dante from American literature anyway. There are hundreds of us who still study him and truly love his work.

Shakespearean John Smith, by the way, acts more like a politician than a literary historian. When you read his stuff, you get the impression that an American, an Austrian, a German, or a Canadian is constantly looming over us, ready to crush us, and we have to perpetually construct this identity—this mythomania about our roots and the father of our literature. Someone who fears outsiders fits perfectly into this whole tirade regarding Dante, especially considering how foreigners are depicted in the Academy texts and the roles they play.

Yeah, I get what you're saying. I think I follow.
I really don't see why there's all this foaming around again, I guess.🤷

I guess I’ve been wondering lately, sort of drifting through the thought, what kind of criteria these "player" types actually use when they're picking their targets. It's hard to say, really, because maybe there isn't even a concrete logic behind it, but I find myself questioning what drives that specific kind of selection process.
I suppose I can see why certain works generate such massive hype, so I guess there’s no harm in letting them make the list, even if they only end up as honorable mentions.
But then you have Springsteen...🙄