Posts by Gregory Jackson

Drew Moore5 said:Actually, it's quite the opposite. The notorious Leadbeater only had partial astral vision. His grasp of the astral level might be okay, but he completely missed the mark on Devachan. Not to mention, his moral standing wasn't exactly stellar.

"Notorious"? I don't know, man, we really shouldn't be judging other people's morality like that. I suppose that's a divine privilege.

Paul Ross2 said:I have zero ambition to change the masses. I am talking about individuals. We live in an era defined by the shopping mall. People pilgrimage to temples of consumerism, and because they exist entirely outside the realm of the non-material, they aren't capable of grasping anything else. There used to be inventors, spiritual seekers, people genuinely interested in personal growth...
Nowadays, even when someone is an inventor or engages with spirituality, they view it primarily as a business venture that needs to be monetized immediately. I had a friend who actually starved to death because he poured every single cent into the materials needed to build his concepts and models. Today, everyone is just trying to launch some new startup and convinced themselves that this constitutes progress.

Yeah, I totally see that too. For the vast majority of people, spirituality isn't even on the radar. At most, it's just some little hobby or a way to relax, without ever really diving deep or asking the big "how" and "why" questions.

I also notice that the spiritual folks who turn it into a business—like those yoga instructors and whatnot—are constantly competing with one another. They often end up in these messy rivalries fueled by their own ego, mostly because they think they're all fighting over the exact same group of clients...

Not to get too far off-topic here, but I really love Leadbeater and the way he lays everything out. His descriptions of Devachan are especially great, along with how much he covers regarding the astral plane. He talks so well about thoughts and the elementals that emerge from them... it’s honestly pure gold for anyone who actually wants to listen.

silverotter592 said:That was a really wonderful response. Thank you, you're absolutely right. For me, Jesus Christ is my role model and guide. But honestly, looking at most Christians I've met, I've sometimes wondered if we were even meeting the same Christ or reading the same Gospel, because the way they live and the things they say don't seem to align much with His teachings. Finding a normal person I can talk to about everyday life sounds perfect to me. For a long time, I pulled away from everything because I was completely broken, and I knew I had to become a healthy person so I could be a good mother to my children, and with God's help, I have a beautiful family today—healthy, smart, kind, capable, and enlightened kids, plus a good husband, though he's unfortunately away often for work. I'm not afraid of being alone, because the silence in which I encountered the Lord has made me what I am today: healthy, stable, optimistic, empathetic, tolerant, rational, and strong, whereas twenty years ago, I was a sociopath, lost in fake spirituality, empty philosophies, drug use, promiscuity, and a massive void where a soul should have been, filled instead with an overwhelming arrogance regarding my own intelligence. When I read certain posts here, I recognize my old self in them, and I thank God for giving me back my soul and freeing me from those hollow speculations and philosophies I once mistook for spirituality. I simply want to share this Life, this beautiful new life that I have received, with others.

Yeah, you hit the nail on the head there, I think—it’s like there's just one Christ and one central message, yet somehow everyone seems to process it in such wildly different ways. It kind of reminds me of that parable Jesus told about the seeds falling on all those different types of soil, you know? Where some take root and flourish and others just... well, they don't, or they just wither away. I guess it feels like most people are pretty well-versed in the basic facts of His life, but maybe we don't pay nearly enough attention to what He actually taught us. I mean, following His teachings isn't just about knowing things; it's about actually living them out, which I suppose is a lifelong grind and honestly just way harder than just reading about it. Personally, I’m really drawn to His teachings, because if you look at "love God and love your neighbor," it feels like the entire essence of spiritual wisdom is wrapped up right there in those words. And man, the Lord's Prayer... that's just such a powerful thing to pray, isn't it?

silverotter592 said:That was a really wonderful response. Thank you, you're absolutely right. For me, Jesus Christ is my role model and guide. But honestly, looking at most Christians I've met, I've sometimes wondered if we were even meeting the same Christ or reading the same Gospel, because the way they live and the things they say don't seem to align much with His teachings. Finding a normal person I can talk to about everyday life sounds perfect to me. For a long time, I pulled away from everything because I was completely broken, and I knew I had to become a healthy person so I could be a good mother to my children, and with God's help, I have a beautiful family today—healthy, smart, kind, capable, and enlightened kids, plus a good husband, though he's unfortunately away often for work. I'm not afraid of being alone, because the silence in which I encountered the Lord has made me what I am today: healthy, stable, optimistic, empathetic, tolerant, rational, and strong, whereas twenty years ago, I was a sociopath, lost in fake spirituality, empty philosophies, drug use, promiscuity, and a massive void where a soul should have been, filled instead with an overwhelming arrogance regarding my own intelligence. When I read certain posts here, I recognize my old self in them, and I thank God for giving me back my soul and freeing me from those hollow speculations and philosophies I once mistook for spirituality. I simply want to share this Life, this beautiful new life that I have received, with others.

I feel like you’ve made such massive strides in your life lately, and honestly, since it was all earned through your own grit and firsthand experience, it feels like you’ve built a foundation that’s maybe a hundred times more solid than before. I really do think those old temptations from your past life can't touch you anymore or pull you backward, you know? It’s like you're just wired differently now. And man, family is such a huge deal because that’s usually when people finally grow up, especially once that weight of responsibility and having people counting on you actually hits home. I’ve got two kids of my own, and they’re at that age right now where they just start questioning everything about the world around them—like, asking if they could be born as birds, or if aliens are out there, or even what we actually do in the next life once we leave this one, and all that stuff. It’s wild. Just like how I’ve grown mentally, I feel like I’ve grown spiritually too, so I guess I’m a much higher quality "truth seeker" today than I ever was back then. It’s pretty similar to your situation, actually; those old, naive fantasies and half-baked spiritual philosophies have mostly been replaced by some much more mature practices and ways of thinking, though I suppose there’s still such a long road ahead of us. You can't wrap everything up in just one lifetime, I guess...

I guess I spent a good chunk of time back in the day really hunting for that kind of deep, soul-level connection with people, you know? But honestly, looking back, I’m starting to realize just how tough that actually is, because when you start talking about those raw, deeply personal experiences, it’s just... it's hard. It’s so difficult to really lay everything out there and be vulnerable unless you're talking to your absolute best friend or someone you trust with your life. Even when you talk to spiritual leaders or mentors, I've noticed they almost always prefer to stick to the surface stuff—you know, chatting about different practices, specific techniques, certain books, or giving lectures and sharing their own little spiritual "wins"—rather than actually diving into a real, messy, deep personal exchange. It seems like everyone stays in their lane instead of truly opening up.

So, I was just thinking, and maybe it’s actually time for you to start teaching someone else about new life, you know? Like, instead of just looking for someone who can handle those deep, intense conversations, maybe you could show people through your own actions just how much of a spiritual transformation is actually possible. It might be cool to find someone you can actually guide if they're willing to listen...

silverotter592 said:What I mean is, it really is possible to form genuinely intimate bonds between people who are out there searching for the Truth without falling into those toxic dependencies or losing who they are as individuals. We’re all prone to lying to ourselves, and having a good, honest friend can actually help you tear down those personal illusions. It’s the delusions and the lies that drive people apart, not spiritual growth. When a person is finally able to strip everything away and show their small and large shadows to someone else—someone who won't judge them because they're also aware of their own flaws—that darkness just dissolves and disappears, and the soul gets purified. Not to mention all the other benefits of a friendship like that. Any "truth" we try to keep to ourselves isn't actually truth at all; it's just a deception.

I’m not quite sure why anyone would limit their search for friends to just people in spiritual circles, you know? Personally, I have plenty of folks in my life who don't care about any of this at all, and honestly, I just don't bring up those topics with them, and we get along just fine. I do have a few spiritually-minded people nearby, though, and like you said, everyone follows their own specific path, but we still have great discussions where we really bounce ideas off each other, and occasionally we do things together, like maybe a chakra dance class or some meditation sessions or attending a lecture. But yeah, if you aren't part of a formal religious community and you're more of a solo seeker, it can be pretty tough to find someone who sees everything exactly the way you do, but I suppose a true spiritual person should probably be tolerant of that. Some people vibe better with one tradition, others with another, but at the end of the day, the foundation and the ultimate goal are basically the same thing.

So, yeah, I wouldn't go hunting for friends specifically among "spiritual types" instead of just looking out in the regular world, and if I happen to run into another seeker along the way, then hey, that's awesome. We're all walking the same path, I guess; some of us are doing it consciously and straight ahead, while others are just wandering around aimlessly and winding through it.

Mother Meera

“The whole purpose of my work is in the calling down of the Paramatman light and in helping people. For this i came – to open your hearts to the Light.”

Question : Mother, could you tell me more about what you do, if that's okay?

MM: Well, first off, i bring down the light. I work to establish Peace, and I also try to help people surrender to the Divine, you know, just helping them remember the Divine and stay true and sincere to whatever religion or belief system they hold dear. I really just want to help people find happiness within their own families.

Q: So, if you had to say, what's your main goal?

MM: It's really about helping us humans and making sure we're happy, peaceful, content, harmonious, and full of love. I truly believe happiness and spiritual growth are tied together, you know? Being peaceful is such a huge part of the foundation for any spiritual practice. Once you have that, the rest of the practice kind of just flows naturally.

Q: And what are you aiming for specifically?

MM: Just to protect every single aspect of the human experience.
I think I get human nature quite well, and I know just how tough life on Earth can be, honestly. I try to help everyone, no matter what kind of situation they're in or where they are in their own awareness. Sometimes, other incarnations seem to focus mostly on people at one specific stage of life, but I try to reach everyone.

Q: So, the Mother's work in the world is happening constantly right now, isn't it?

MM: It really is, all the time. The collective consciousness of humanity is being prepared for these massive leaps and big discoveries—we try to do it gently whenever we can, of course. But, I guess some things just have to be cleared away. I don't actually enjoy destroying things; I much prefer changing them. But if there's no openness, then destruction becomes necessary. Still, God is giving us such a huge opportunity. There are many divine beings here right now. We're basically showing people a way out, offering up the divine Light and divine knowledge. We are bringing down into the consciousness of the Earth the divine consciousness. Now, it's really up to people to decide. man is free; God will not force his children to do anything. He just wants their love, given freely. Mercy and love are always available.

Q: You've used the Paramatman light to help speed up the process of global and individual transformation. Is there anything else you do besides bringing down the Light?

MM: I'm here to share that every path is equally valid and they all eventually lead back to the Divine. Because of that, I feel like people of different faiths should really respect one another's journeys. Like, Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, and all sorts of religious folks can follow their own traditions, but they shouldn't be hating or fighting over someone else's beliefs. People who follow any path can come to me—I help them to remember the Divine, and I try to provide them with peace and happiness when they're going through a hard time.

Amma, the hugging saint

https://www.biographyonline.net/spiritual/amma.html

Regarding Akasha, based on Ljubiša Stojanović’s deep meditation. This is the response coming from the energy center he was communicating with:

So, I guess you could say Akasha isn't just some single, isolated energy or a specific hub—it's not like a standalone energy structure that someone just built for a purpose, you know? It’s nothing like those other energetic frameworks we recognize in the world knowledge known.

What does it actually mean when we say Akasha is a "state of energies"? Well, I suppose it means that at a certain point, under just the right circumstances, if you look at things a certain way, you might see this massive collection of energies—almost all the intelligent or super-intelligent energies, centers, Consciousness, and everything else floating out there in the cosmos—all at once. It’s almost like seeing a bunch of candied fruit suspended in jelly, all visible in one single glance. When those conditions are met, there’s this possibility where you can establish contact with all of them simultaneously. You get this one unified answer to a question, or maybe access to a certain power, though it's probably a bit less intense than if they had all essentially delegated their wisdom and strength to act as one. It's like all these cosmic parts merge on their way toward the enlightened person asking the question, presenting themselves as if they were just one single energetic being.

That response is basically their collective stance, their shared opinion, and—to a lesser extent—their joint action. So, an answer from Akasha is absolutely spot on; it reflects the consensus of the cosmos. It isn't just the opinion of one random energy or a small group of cosmic centers. Instead, it represents a viewpoint that holds true as long as all those intelligent cosmic energies share a common understanding of the issue. Even then, the answer is made up of slight variations of that singular thought—they differ just a tiny bit, but they still function as individual responses to the same thing. That’s why an Akasha answer is really the whole universe speaking; it's kind of like a United Nations resolution, where it stands as one official response that everyone backs, even if not every single person is 100% in total agreement, but they all pretty much fall in line with it.

Basically, Akasha represents this specific moment where all these intelligent cosmic subjects act together to provide answers to people who possess extraordinary abilities. Honestly, that kind of power is rarely handed out to humans, but it is something humanity knows about. I mean, the great thinkers and spiritual leaders throughout history have had the chance to tap into Akasha.

Just to reiterate, Akasha isn't some special, solid, or uniform thing. It’s more like the collective reply from the entire cosmos to a specific inquiry. All the different subjects involved reach a consensus before that answer ever reaches the person asking, even though all those energies stay completely independent, going about their own business, doing what they were programmed to do, evolving and moving through space as they always have. So, I guess this moment is really the Creator's decision to allow all cosmic subjects to give a single, undeniable, absolute, and truthful answer. It provides huge help to a certain energy, a center, or in really rare cases, a specific being or even a human. In this way, the Creator makes it possible for these supreme, valid cosmic answers to be delivered without messing up the functioning of the rest of the universe. It doesn't slow down or interfere with the cosmos while it's answering; that’s the whole point of Akasha—it’s the Creator’s vision realized through all the intelligent parts of the universe.

Meher Baba, the Avatar



So, I was reading up on this incredible figure, Meher Baba—though he started out as Merwan Sheriar Irani, born back on February 25, 1894, in Pune, India. His folks were actually Persian, and his dad, Sheriar, was this really dedicated, deep-seeking guy looking for the divine. It’s kind of funny because, looking back at his younger days, you probably wouldn't guess anything was going to happen, I mean, he was just a regular kid attending local prep schools and then heading off to university in Pune. But everything flipped upside down when he was nineteen. Apparently, this whole spiritual awakening kicked off one chilly January day in 1913. He was just pedaling his bike home from college, maybe thinking about nothing in particular, when he ran into this elderly woman known as Hazrat Babajan. Now, she was legendary, thought to be a "Perfect Master"—basically someone who had totally connected with God. Once they met, Merwan’s entire reality just shifted. He suddenly realized he wasn't just some guy, but was actually one with the Divine. From there, it was like a domino effect where he met four other Masters who helped guide him through this massive internal transformation. One of them, Upasni Maharaj, actually spent seven years working alongside him. And get this—finally, in 1921, Upasni just bowed down to him and said, “You are the Avatar, I salute you.” That was it. That was the moment Merwan stepped into his role as the Avatar of the Age.

Now, you might wonder, what even is an "Avatar"? Well, Meher Baba used to explain that at these super crucial turning points in human history, God basically steps into a human body. I guess the titles change depending on who you ask—like Christ or the Messiah—but the core message of Divine love stays exactly the same. It’s like, in His infinite compassion, the Avatar takes on all the world's heavy lifting and suffering to help pull humanity toward a spiritual rebirth. Because of that, Meher Baba always held all the major religions in such high regard, seeing them as different ways the same Ancient Presence reached out to us.

Moving into the 1920s, his whole vibe became this idea of “Mastery through Service.” He and his followers were incredibly busy, honestly, working tirelessly to help anyone who was struggling—the poor, the sick, people living on the fringes of society, or those dealing with mental health issues. They were setting up schools, clinics, and retreats to make sure people were taken care of. And it wasn't just a big organization thing; he was right there in the trenches. He’d wash the feet of people with leprosy and tell them, “I bow down to the God in each one of you.” He even cleaned latrines for people who were treated as outcasts just to fight against social hierarchies. It makes total sense that his early followers started calling him “Meher Baba,” which pretty much translates to “the Compassionate Father.”

Then, things took a really intense turn. On July 10, 1925, Meher Baba started this period of silence. He didn't say a single word for forty-four years! He basically felt like there had been enough talking done, and it was time to actually start living the truth. But even though he was quiet, he was still so present, you know? He still had that warmth and that great sense of humor. When he really needed to get a point across, he’d use this wooden board with alphabet letters on it to spell things out. Most of his famous talks were actually communicated that way. Later on, after 1954, he stopped using the board and just used hand gestures to talk to people.

He always made sure to mention that he went silent specifically so he could eventually break it. By choosing to speak through silence, he was essentially delivering the word of God for our modern era. It’s more of an internal "Word" that you feel deep down in your gut. Like he put it:

“External silence helps foster that inner stillness, and it’s only in that deep, internal silence that you can truly find Baba. I am never actually silent. I am speaking eternally. That voice you hear deep inside your soul? That’s my voice.”

So, I guess that’s the real heart of the spiritual revolution he brought about—just waking up that spark of Divine love inside every single person.

Another really fascinating part of his life was how he interacted with these people called "masts." According to Baba, there are all sorts of masts, but generally, they’re these highly spiritual people whose love for God is so overwhelming that, to a regular person, they might look like they've lost their minds. But he explained that they aren't actually crazy; they just can't bring themselves to care about the mundane stuff of the world because they're so caught up in their connection to the Divine.

Throughout his journey, Meher Baba really showed both sides of the coin—his full divinity and his complete humanity. Back in 1952, he stepped out from his period of seclusion to let everyone know publicly that he was the God-Man, the Avatar for our era. For the following seventeen years, Baba just poured everything he had into his mission, working harder than anyone I can imagine to finish what he started. He actually warned his followers that this path would involve some serious hardship, specifically mentioning that he would shed blood on both American and foreign soil. And, looking back, it really did happen that way; he went through two major car accidents, the first one happening right here in the States in 1952 and the second one later on overseas in 1956. In one instance, the entire left side of his body was hurt, and in the other, it was the right side that took the brunt of it.

Even though he was going through so much pain, Meher Baba still kept his heart wide open, offering darshan—you know, that personal blessing—to thousands upon thousands of people throughout the fifties and early sixties. During those years, he made three trips to the Meher Spiritual Center in the U.S., which he always talked about as if it were his true home in the West. One of his final big moments, the East-West Gathering held in India in 1962, really captured that idea of everyone becoming one through love, which is basically what he was here to teach. You had people from every possible background, nationality, and religion coming together like one big family under that divine love, and Meher Baba shared a sentiment then that I think applies to all of us today:

“I hope my love helps you realize, someday, that God lives within every single person.”

In his final years, Meher Baba mostly stayed in seclusion to wrap up his universal mission. Honestly, that intense period of isolation and work must have been incredibly draining on his health, too. But even so, he seemed totally content with how things turned out, telling everyone, ”My work is finished. It’s done one hundred percent to my satisfaction.” Not long after that, on January 31, 1969, Meher Baba left his physical body behind to live on forever in the hearts of everyone who has ever felt his love.

Nowadays, Meher Baba’s tomb, which is located in Ahmednagar, India, serves as a massive pilgrimage site for people traveling from every corner of the globe.

wiredfalcon2 said:And who gets to decide what counts as a "triviality," Gregory Jackson? Billions of believers celebrate a completely made-up date for Christ's birth, and every high-ranking church official uses televised specials to reach people during Christmas... clearly, it's a huge deal when it comes to religious moments and living out one's faith.

I guess it's more about celebrating the actual birth and the arrival itself rather than the specific calendar date, you know? I mean, it could honestly be any day for all we know. We can't really go blaming the Roman Empire for not keeping perfect records, because they probably didn't think anyone would even care about having a precise date two thousand years down the line. Jack, people didn't even have last names back then—it was just a first name and maybe a nickname or something...

Bryan King3 said:See? Some of those conclusions are already spot on.
Go ahead and give my previous post another read—it might just help broaden your horizons a little bit more.
Actually, feel free to read it as many times as you need until it clicks...

Hahaha, man, you just can't seem to grasp the core of what I'm saying, so I guess there's no point in even trying, right? You're looking at this from the view of someone stuck in an elevator—or maybe like that old saying about a frog in a well, I suppose. But hey, your username is pretty funny, I gotta hand it to you 👍

Bryan King3 said:It’s really not that black and white.
Every single atheist out there has their own specific reasoning—their own set of convictions—as to why they don't buy into religious nonsense.
Now, if you ask me, a huge chunk (maybe even most!) of atheists actually struggle to put their exact stance into words.
But hey, there are actual reasons for that!
One major factor is that religiosity is, among other things, tied to intelligence.
What I mean by that is that a believer often lacks the intellectual breadth required to truly grasp a world where God simply doesn't exist.
I like to explain it using a little analogy:
Imagine a believer riding in an elevator—that represents their entire world, moving from the lowest floor to the highest floor the elevator can reach.
The problem is, the believer has absolutely no clue what exists outside that elevator shaft.
(Instead of an elevator, you could imagine them trapped inside the covers of the Bible, the Quran... or whatever else acts as a cage for their mind.)

Another point we absolutely cannot overlook is that an atheist would never go out of their way to bother a believer.
However, the sheer aggression found in almost all religions is specifically designed to be intolerant of atheists.
It’s an old rule of thumb: a believer will almost always tolerate someone from a different faith—even one they despise—much more easily than they will tolerate an atheist.
So, where do we see this intense friction between believers and atheists?
You find it in the most primitive environments: Afghanistan, Somalia, Saudi Arabia... even right here in America.
Meanwhile, in places where religious questions are just fringe issues in society—like the Czech Republic, Sweden, Germany, or France...

And so...

The core message, though, is supposed to be about loving God and loving your neighbor. Since God isn't a physical person you can just spot walking down the street, the practical takeaway is to love our neighbors—meaning all people and living things—because God is in everyone, including atheists. You don't need a massive IQ for that, really; you just need heart. Someone who actually has heart doesn't need to beat their brains out wondering why the Bible says one thing here and something else there, because that's just secondary stuff caused by human imperfection.

The thing is, someone with a huge intellect might sometimes lack that heart. Atheists tend to "look" through their intellect since they haven't had that spiritual experience, and you can't really grasp why someone believes what they do or what they see in the Bible or the Quran using just logic. Because of that misunderstanding, an atheist might think a believer is just being stupid. But a true believer wouldn't ever think that about an atheist, because they truly love their neighbor. 🙂

Nicole James said:What do people mean when they talk about free will? Honestly, it sounds like nonsense to me. Who actually possesses free will? Does someone struggling with severe schizophrenia have it? Does a six-year-old girl—who is sold to some predator and subjected to unimaginable horror—have any choice in her fate? Or consider a child groomed from infancy to become a suicide bomber in the name of Allah; does that child really exercise free will? To my mind, "free will" is nothing more than a convenient, hollow excuse used to mask the reality that God is just as absent as any other imaginary entity we've conjured up...

I feel like once you truly wrap your head around how karma works, you'll finally get what I'm talking about, especially regarding that whole connection between karma and free will.

But, honestly, I think it’s probably just a waste of energy to try and hash this out with an atheist who hasn't had even a single moment of spiritual insight or an open mind. I don't mean to be rude or anything, I really don't, but our perspectives are just so incredibly far apart that there isn't much ground to cover here, which is just a reality of life. Anyway, have a nice life! 🙂

wiredfalcon2 said:In your opinion, why did God never mention when his son was born? 🙂

I mean, who would He even tell? I guess we’d have to find someone sitting there talking to Him just to suggest the topic, right?

But honestly, it feels kind of irrelevant, you know? Like, the actual physical day someone comes into the world doesn't really matter much. The soul isn't something that gets "born" and it certainly doesn't die, so... yeah. I suppose the Creator probably doesn't spend time worrying about those little human details or satisfying our curiosity about dates and stuff.

If you ask me, 🙂

wiredfalcon2 said:Look, I’m not talking about every single person out there, just the majority of those "practical" believers. I mean the crowd that checks the "religious" box on the census just so they can celebrate Christmas, which is really just an excuse for a family get-together. It’s not even a religious thing for them; they're just marking some totally made-up date for Christ's birth that isn't even mentioned in the Bible.

The date itself is kind of invented, you know? Like, it's symbolic because nobody actually knows the real date. Most historians pretty much agree he was born in late summer, actually. I heard about this one spiritual teacher who supposedly received it in meditation that he was born on September 3rd according to our current calendar. But honestly, it doesn't really matter when he was born.
December 25th is just the day when the Roman Empire used to celebrate the festival of the Sun (Sol Invictus), so I guess it was just convenient to adopt that as a Christian holiday. Though, there are probably other theories out there about why they picked that specific day, too. When the actual date is a mystery, any other date works well enough, I suppose. 🙂

Yeah, a lot of believers see faith more as tradition or customs and stuff like that. Although, I don't think we should really judge, because faith is such an internal thing, and you can't really tell if someone is truly devout just by looking at their outward actions. It doesn't really matter whether they follow the rituals of one religion or another, I guess.

Lisa Jackson7 said:I didn't see any kind of dilemma from DeVinci—not based on anything he’s posted in this thread.

Never heard of Meher Baba before, but I get where he's coming from regarding all those rituals—though honestly, I think you just need to find a balance... especially in this sense.

Religion without Spirituality | Spirituality without Religion Quote : if The essence of spirituality is The search to know Our true selves , then know that its a Life Long process , and perhaps IT requires many births and rebirths ( only god completely knows The true mystery of Our Soul and its evolutionary process of merging with Truth -> Religion without Spirituality | Spirituality without Religion Quote

If the essence of spirituality is the search to know Our true selves, then know that its a Life Long process, and perhaps IT requires many births and rebirths (only God completely knows The true mystery of Our Soul and its evolutionary process of merging with Truth -> Religion without Spirituality | Spirituality without Religion Quote Cut the act—you don't need to play-act some super deep, "enlightened" persona just because you're chasing personal nirvana. That’s just straight-up narcissism. You can't force meditation any more than you can force yourself to reach actual spirituality—it just doesn't work like that. Honestly, all you really need is just to stay awake to life—and more importantly, to actually be aware of who you are.

So, what’s the move after this? Simple—it's time to serve.

And there it is—the absolute grip religion has on people. Organized religion in all forms and tradition does a very good job aspiring The faithful into that. It sets the stage—gives us the structure and the groundwork we need to actually exist in this world and get to work. It's about being able to serve others. That’s how you actually serve the Creator—by showing up for the people around you.

People call themselves "spiritual" while totally ignoring the person cleaning their house for pennies—just paying next to nothing for actual hard work—only to drop thousands on some fancy trip to visit a random tomb halfway across the world. Or they'll skip helping hungry kids or the homeless right on their own street just to book another flight to join some "spiritual group." Honestly, that's sol nonsense in The Eye of Beloved, who cries at the suffering of humanity and laughs at the joyful heart of humanity.

don't you think gladden The Heart of that extremely poor of The humanity was much more important Than going on sol called spiritual travel ( another escape route for selfish luxury

Honestly, this is one of the best takes I’ve read on this subject. Religion without spirituality is just performing dry, empty rituals—do this, do that, blah blah blah—but then again, spirituality on its own can easily turn into nothing more than an excuse for narcissism.

If you're asking if this affects atheists—it doesn't. They aren't even on the train, so they aren't exactly traveling toward the destination. I mean, it’s not quite right to say they’re "wasting time" because honestly, some of them can be incredible people who actually live by the morals their religions preach. They might end up progressing spiritually—sometimes even faster than those followers who just go through the motions of rituals without any actual substance. In some future life, an ex-atheist will eventually jump on one of the trains.

Look, it’s not about whether someone lacks a purpose—whether they're an atheist, a believer, some guy from Alaska, or just works at State Farm, etc.
That's not how I see it.

You don't have to be religious to jump in and help out a charity or a non-profit; an atheist can be perfectly moral and still grow spiritually... honestly, comparing people on that level is just pointless.

But we aren't just talking about one person's spiritual journey—we're talking about the community. Eventually, the morality of a secular society is going to run dry—kind of like a crew on a spaceship who decides to just live off their emergency reserves, thinking they won't ever need a new source... because they're too arrogant to think they'll actually need it.

I'm with you on all of this, 👍

wiredfalcon2 said:So, what you're saying is God made a bunch of people so dim-witted they can't even wrap their heads around whether eating pork is okay or not... and he supposedly made them in his own image? Geez, we really lucked out with a bad God.

I mean, I don't think there's really any basis for jumping to those kinds of conclusions, you know? People have free will, and instead of actually working on themselves—like progressing through history, building literacy, or advancing science—humanity has mostly just spent its time fighting wars and wrecking whatever tiny bit of progress we actually managed to make. And honestly, we're still doing it. I don't think God is the one to blame here. Plus, when you think about it, the human race is actually super young, maybe like 3.5 million years since we split off from our common ancestors with apes.
The whole "made in His image" thing probably means that every single person carries a little spark of God inside them, like a soul. But we also have minds that can go totally haywire and this free will that gives us the right to just spit on everything—and eventually, that bad karma from those choices always catches up to us.

It’s not that we drew the short straw with a bad God, but rather that there is only one. 🙂 The one who gave you life in the first place, and who somehow manages to put up with us being the way we are. He's truly amazing, I guess. 🙂

Lisa Jackson7 said:I don't rank questions... for some orthodox followers (and honestly, even if they aren't), those things are still top-tier priorities... but what does anyone else care? Like, how does any of that actually change anyone else's life?

I'm not totally sure what you mean there, because I was just chatting with Delvecci about his own dilemmas recently. Personally, I do rank questions into being more or less important, mostly just because, you know, we only have so much time in this life. There are endless paths out there, and some are definitely faster than others. According to Meher Baba, if a follower puts way too much emphasis on religious rituals instead of focusing on the actual essence, they're basically stuck on a slow commuter train that stops at every single little station along the way.

As for atheists, if that’s what you were asking—it doesn't really affect them, I guess? Since they aren't on the train and aren't traveling toward that specific destination. They spend their time on other stuff—though, I suppose it wouldn't be quite right to say they're wasting time, because they can be absolutely wonderful people who live by a strong moral code or their own version of faith. They might actually progress spiritually, without even realizing it, sometimes even faster than those formal followers who just go through the motions of rituals without any real substance. And maybe, in some future life, a former atheist will eventually hop onto one of those trains.

Lisa Jackson7 said:The whole idea of splitting the sacred from the secular is really just a byproduct of how the West evolved over the last few centuries.

That distinction brought some good stuff along with the bad, so it isn't just "talking"—it's just that people experience the world differently now. That's all there is to it.

So, I was thinking about that whole "chatter" thing—you know, all that endless theorizing about secondary details that wiredfalcon2 was bringing up earlier? It feels like we get so caught up in debating the tiny, unimportant bits of everything, which I guess is just what humans do, but it really distracts from actually living out our core faith, which should probably be the main event, right? Maybe we spend way too much energy on the noise instead of just focusing on the actual practice of what we believe.

wiredfalcon2 said:And let's be real, all those nitpicky rules—like whether a woman is allowed to shave her head, what kind of headscarf she needs to wear, how many times a day you gotta pray, or which specific foods are "pure" vs "impure"—all that nonsense? That was cooked up by the founders of those religions. The core message is always the same, everyone is preaching the same thing, but they just throw in all those tiny, pointless details so followers stay busy obsessing over stuff that doesn't matter. Brilliant move, really. Makes perfect sense if you're looking to control people.

I mean, you could probably just ignore all that noise and just stick to the actual heart of it. Just love your neighbor and all that good stuff, and the rest won't be able to touch you, I guess. 🙂

But, man, it’s definitely way easier for churches and people in general to just chatter on about all those minor details than it is to actually live out the real essence of it.

Matthew Mitchell29 said:Hmm... I’m curious where you picked up those interpretations regarding Christianity, Islam, and Buddhism.

1. Jesus spoke of a personal God as Father, making a very distinct separation between the Creator and Creation. He also made it quite clear who God is when he said, "I am the Way, the Truth and Life," and "Whoever has seen Me has seen the Father."
2. Muhammad, on the other hand, taught that he was a messenger of God, emphasizing that God is one and transcendent, and that salvation comes through righteous deeds and following Islamic revelation. He explicitly rejected the concept of an embodied God.
3. As for Buddha, he didn't really speak about any god at all, focusing instead on the world being an illusion and finding a way out of suffering by letting go of desire and such.

I have to admit, I'm struggling to see how those specific statements lead to the pantheistic or monistic conclusion you're drawing.

Yeah, you're totally right. That's exactly what they taught. Those aren't my own quotes, you caught me there. I guess I just drifted off a bit because I've been juggling so many different things lately. 🙂

Still, I'm not going to take back everything I wrote 🙂 but I really don't feel like getting into a massive debate about it, because that would basically mean I'd have to spend my entire day explaining myself.

The Truth isn't actually that complicated, I mean, the core essence isn't that hard to grasp, it's just really tough to actually accept it because we're all so caught up in the weeds of our own specific beliefs and stuff.