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Posts by stormybadger8

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F1 Montreal GP: June 7-9, 2019 in Formula 1 ·
Nicholas Newman2 said:You’ve packaged all that up nicely, but you forgot one thing: the stewards actually have access to way more data regarding these messy incidents than just some live timing feed😉.

And this whole "100% proof" thing is honestly just an unnecessary performance on your part. If you’re going to bluff like this, you might as well claim there's no proof God exists either, since nobody has actually seen Him, right?

Whoops, hold on—now we're heading into uncharted territory, and suddenly the theory of evolution is underwater too. It's the same old story: when you hunt for actual empirical evidence, nobody has any, because you can't exactly run a lab test on something that takes a million years to happen.

So, either start some New Age movement or just admit you're making up wild conspiracies out of thin air.

Later

In my book, racing should operate on the principles of a civilized society, not some playground shouting match...
Basically, the premise of judging should be that everyone is innocent until proven guilty. ☕

Consequently, you can't penalize someone for doing something "intentionally" if there's zero proof of intent...
To me, "I think," "I doubt," or "I assume" aren't pieces of evidence...
So, this whole narrative about intentional rule-breaking in these situations just doesn't hold water.

Because it’s nearly impossible to absolutely prove intent when a driver flies off into the grass, cuts back onto the track, clips a curb, and ends up airborne... it's just chaos.
Maybe you could make a case if there was a paved runoff area and the driver cut back onto the track specifically to shove someone else out of the way...
But even then, proving intent is a stretch, though at least in that scenario, the driver can't easily hide behind the excuse of losing control...

Now, because I personally can't stand Max, I'll loudly blather on about how he's to blame for everything, but if it were Vettel, I'd act totally different...
We're fans, and it doesn't matter if we spout nonsense like that, but the officials themselves shouldn't be acting like fans...
Especially not someone like Warwick, who openly picks sides before a race even starts and rants about how much he dislikes certain drivers. 🤦

I have no clue what your God and religion comparison is supposed to mean here. 🤦
Are you suggesting a steward should blindly believe Lewis Hamilton is always innocent while Sebastian Vettel is always guilty, or some kid is?
What does faith have to do with officiating based on rules and evidence? 🤷

When it comes to Warwick, I honestly get the feeling he judges exactly that way... Truth and God.
Then again, he wasn't the one officiating that controversial race, because if he had been, we wouldn't even be talking about it...
If he were the steward, I bet Vettel would have copped at least a 25-second penalty or even a black flag...
Warwick definitely wouldn't have settled for just five seconds. 😁
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Formula 1 2019 season in Formula 1 ·
Terry Carter2 said:Working construction all day, then getting wasted at night!
Though, maybe that's too late—maybe even by morning!
😁

So you're basically a pro chef now🤣
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F1 Montreal GP: June 7-9, 2019 in Formula 1 ·
gentlemoose57 said:He had 3. Then they told him about the penalty.

crimsonhawk23 said:Exactly. He was at 3.3, heard about the penalty, and just spent the rest of the race whining over the radio instead of actually driving.

He didn't "build up" anything. Lewis Hamilton just lost his mind during the race...
☕

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?p...wis%20Hamilton
Sebastian Vettel's times are basically identical. It’s Hamilton who dropped a second off his normal pace on lap 57...

Check the timing data on Live Timing if you want things to make sense. Stop making up fairy tales and reading tea leaves.
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F1 Montreal GP: June 7-9, 2019 in Formula 1 ·
Nicholas Newman2 said:Vettel messed up by going wide, everything else was just a chain reaction. Ad Acta

P.s. Seriously though. If they penalize the Mercedes-Benz driver for this tomorrow, fine. But if they go after all five of them, nobody’s going to care about making split-second decisions anymore.

Yeah, he went off track...

But the real question is how much control he actually had versus how much he was intentionally blocking Lewis Hamilton...
If he didn't have control, then what is this?
A penalty for going off, a penalty because Hamilton squeezed next to you (instead of passing on the left), or a penalty for what exactly?

How on earth can you penalize someone for an "unsafe reentry" if they aren't even in control of the car and it's basically drifting back onto the track on its own after a spin?

Maybe if you're convinced it was intentional—that the slide was staged and the guy was just being a villain trying to pin poor, terrified Hamilton against the wall...
Even if you were sure, what's the point of a penalty for something you can't actually prove? Intent is hard to nail down. Sure, a steward might get a feeling, but absolute proof? That's a tall order.

And handing out a penalty just for going off track isn't right either. Otherwise, they'd be penalizing everyone who goes wide, regardless of whether Hamilton is there or not.

What's actually funny is this Ferrari whining (and it's not just them, it's every team...).
Look, Ferrari cried foul last time when Max pushed Kimi out in a similar way (even though Max used the run-off area correctly...), so now they're getting hit by the very precedent they begged for.
And yeah, the penalty is technically fine under the rules—rules that were basically brought in because Ferrari kept complaining. 😁

It's not even the first time. As far as I recall, Vettel got penalized for moving under braking before, and those rules also gained teeth because Ferrari wouldn't stop complaining about Max doing it.
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F1 Montreal GP: June 7-9, 2019 in Formula 1 ·
crimsonhawk23 said:Sebastian Vettel probably could've pulled off the win even with the penalty. He was sitting 3.3 seconds ahead of Lewis Hamilton, but instead of just putting his head down and driving like a maniac to secure the win—which is what Lewis would've done—he spent the rest of the race whining over the radio about how unfair the penalty was.

Oh yeah, totally...
Mercedes-Benz was the faster car compared to Ferrari, plus Vettel was stuck on older tires that were basically shot by then...

His chances of actually being able to nabildati a lead were basically zero...
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F1 Montreal GP: June 7-9, 2019 in Formula 1 ·
mellowtiger83 said:All I know is Sebastian Vettel is trailing by a massive 62 points, and he should’ve been way closer if he actually had the win.

A massive 62 or a "tiny" 55? It's the same damn gap.😉
The point isn't the math; the point is the stewards completely screwed up the finish of the race with that call...

Anyway, here's what JV is rambling about:
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/v...nada/4467183/?

I have no clue what he's getting at regarding Ricco. I didn't catch that part—my F1 TV app kept crashing on me. 😠
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F1 Montreal GP: June 7-9, 2019 in Formula 1 ·
crimsonhawk23 said:That’s basically Hulk in a nutshell 😃 Except he seems to have a personal vendetta against podiums, unlike Bottas. Bottas is everything Hulk is, just better.

Hulk isn't even half as compliant as Bottas...
On the flip side, Bottas is the kind of guy who'll bend over backward before you even ask him. He's basically Felipe Massa or Rubens Barrichello squared.
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F1 Montreal GP: June 7-9, 2019 in Formula 1 ·
Nicholas Newman2 said:Look, man, if you still don't get what I meant by the bolded and underlined part, I’m honestly at a loss for words.

I can see you've been scrolling through my old posts, and yet, somehow, you're still missing the point of the emphasis.

Of course you don't get it. If you did, you would've figured it out ages ago...
You've been hanging around here for a while now. 😁

Just watch how my little Padawan finally learned his lesson...
https://www.f1puls.com/40154/ma-dajte-molim-vas/
Geldaj, enjoy the ride and try to learn something. 😁
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F1 Montreal GP: June 7-9, 2019 in Formula 1 ·
crimsonhawk23 said:Tell Mercedes they have no clue what they're doing. They passed up a much better driver when Hulkenberg was sitting right there on a silver platter back in 2016.

Who says they don't know what they're doing?
They could have easily picked up Palmer too and still swept every single championship...

They didn't grab Bottas because he's some kind of miracle worker. They grabbed him because:
A.) He's obedient.
B.) He's decent enough to keep that dominant beast in the top 3 or 4 every race, maybe even snagging a win now and then...

And honestly, that’s plenty for them. Who else do they need? 🤷
Why would they want a driver who's going to get under Hamilton's skin and give them another 2016 situation where they might actually lose ground to someone else, like McLaren and Hamilton did? 😉
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F1 Montreal GP: June 7-9, 2019 in Formula 1 ·
crimsonhawk23 said:Let's see what we've got here...
  • Perez's career stats: 165 starts, 8 podiums (4.8%). Real impressive stuff.
  • Nico Hulkenberg’s entire career: 165 starts, 0 podiums (0%).
  • Bottas moving to Mercedes: 78 starts, 8 podiums (all with Williams) (10.2%)

  • Sergio Perez finally hit his career peak: 7th place (2016, 2017).
  • Nico Hulkenberg finally hit his career peak: 7th (2018).
  • Valtteri Bottas finally hit his career peak before moving to Mercedes: 4th place back in 2013.


Just being objective here. 👍

What on earth is supposed to be objective about that???
Back in 2014, that Williams car was a beast. It had genuine pole position and race win potential written all over it. Honestly? They should have cruised into second place in the championship with a massive gap. No contest.

Honestly, that car was basically what Ferrari has been running this season compared to Mercedes. And let’s be real, Valtteri Bottas did absolutely nothing with it. Zero impact.

They ended the season in total shambles, all thanks to Bottas being useless and Mass being way too old, checked out, and completely fed up. And they had to settle for second place without even having a fighting chance.

Look, let’s be real: most of those podiums for Bottas only happened because back in 2014, the Mercedes engine was an absolute monster while everyone else was completely out of their league.
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F1 Montreal GP: June 7-9, 2019 in Formula 1 ·
neonfox65 said:Man, you are just plain stupid. If they had slapped him with a penalty after the race, that would actually be the precedent, because then everyone would be asking why he wasn't penalized immediately to prevent him from building up that 5+ second gap during the race. Thank God I left this thread so I don't have to read your nonsense every single day.

I couldn't care less about penalties or precedents...
Those geniuses basically punished the fans by killing the racing and the actual competition with that call. Even if Sebastian Vettel got a penalty, who cares if it happened after the race? Who gives a damn? If anyone actually cared, would Sebastian Vettel have 7 points more or less today? It doesn't matter in a season where it's painfully obvious that Hamilton is just going to stroll to the title, especially since his only real competition is Valtteri Bottas, who isn't even in the same league....

The point is, the stewards killed the racing. They killed what should have been a historic duel that people would remember for generations. Everything was set up for one of those legendary, furious battles until the very end...
And those geniuses killed that too, all because of some stupid rule meant for "political correctness" or whatever nonsense they're all hiding behind. 🤦

P. S. Give my regards to your parents from TBF and tell them they didn't exactly nail their job...
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F1 Montreal GP: June 7-9, 2019 in Formula 1 ·
Raymond Anderson4 said:I don't know if you realized, but...
you basically just listed every single reason why Vettel deserved that penalty.

Wait, did I even say he shouldn't have been penalized?
The penalty itself is strictly by the book—zero debate there.
I wasn't even questioning whether he’d get one.

What I didn't expect was them handing it out mid-race...
Because they didn't cheat Vettel with that; they cheated the fans. ☕

If they slapped him with a penalty after the race, whatever, no big deal. I wouldn't have blinked.☕
If they told him to give up the spot to Hamilton, fine, still wouldn't have cared.

But this? This robbed us of a duel—a massive, freaking duel that was actually happening...
And *that* is what gets me worked up. 😉

It honestly makes me want to just stop watching NASCAR altogether.
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F1 Montreal GP: June 7-9, 2019 in Formula 1 ·
Nicholas Newman2 said:Finally, everything makes sense.
To all of you defending this kind of defensive driving: just imagine what racing will actually look like if everyone starts driving like this every time they spin off the track.

If you still have excuses, please, keep making these kinds of arguments to protect your favorite driver.

Fair enough.🙂

It's obvious 🙂

What else is there to do besides making up nonsense or trying to twist the rules to stop the fans from losing their minds?
Analyzing this stuff is honestly a joke. At the end of the day, Vettel didn't get penalized for his specific move...
He could have done pretty much anything when rejoining the track, so what then?

Vettel clearly got hit because of Lewis—specifically because Lewis:
A.) braked
B.) avoided Vettel

If Lewis wasn't there, there wouldn't have been a penalty, regardless of whatever Vettel was doing...
Also, if Lewis hadn't braked, hadn't avoided Vettel, and most importantly, if Mercedes hadn't filed a protest, there wouldn't have been a penalty anyway...

So, stop coming up with this mindless speculation.
Even without this analysis, Vettel would've still been penalized. That's just how the rules work, and nobody is disputing that...
And those rules don't say a single word about "intent" or "deliberately pushing."
For one simple reason: you can never prove intent with 100% certainty. It’ll always be "maybe he did, maybe he didn't"...

The real issue is why such a rule even exists.
Honestly, as long as there isn't a massive wreck, there shouldn't be a penalty. If there *is* a wreck, then the penalty should be heavy...
Then you can drive however you want, just watch out whether you want to crash or not...

As a fan, I want to see real wheel-to-wheel combat, down to the wire...
Not 1,500 overtakes using DRS, and not overtakes where a driver just politely moves over because the rulebook says so...
I want to see gritty defensive driving and aggressive attacking, not drivers acting like lawyers, worrying about penalties instead of just focusing on speed and driving. ☕
Sure, if things go south and Lewis closes the door on Vettel, I'll yell "Penalty! Give him a penalty!" but that's part of the fun and the passion of being a fan...
It certainly won't be "Go Seb, hit the DRS button, what a beautiful overtake!" followed by "Oh wait, he gets a 5-second penalty, so he basically won anyway." ☕
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F1 Montreal GP: June 7-9, 2019 in Formula 1 ·
crimsonhawk23 said:��

Why are you acting surprised?
Look, whether it was Max's move in Monaco or that first Red Bull Racing incident where Valtteri Bottas took heavy damage, it was blindingly obvious they deserved a penalty. They should’ve handed it out instantly—and a much harsher one at that. Instead, they dragged it out forever...

Besides, like I said, we need the same set of refs for every race—people with actual common sense who can see past their own noses for once.

Look, I'm not disputing the rulebook. By the book, yeah, it's a penalty.
But to completely wreck a heart-stopping finish during an era where we’ve been starving for actual wheel-to-wheel battles? Only people who are totally lost in space and time make calls like that...

If they had even a shred of brains or tact, the penalty would have looked like this:
They tell Ferrari that Vettel needs to hand the position back to Lewis within three laps or face a 5-second penalty...
Then we actually get to watch a chase until the end, just with the roles reversed—Vettel hunting down Lewis...
It would still be controversial, sure, but it wouldn't alienate every single fan on the planet from their screens or ruin what could have been a killer race.
Instead, it would have pumped up the crowd in the stands and everyone watching at home...

Personally, I fell in love with Formula 1 as a kid just by stumbling onto Monaco 1992 and seeing that duel between Ayrton Senna and Nigel Mansell. I was literally glued to the screen... 😁 nowadays, that would be absolutely impossible.
Because Senna would’ve finished that race in twelfth place (since only twelve cars actually finished...), because he would've picked up a penalty at every other turn for blocking, moving under braking, shoving, blah, blah, blah—5, 10, 25 seconds... who knows, maybe he would've racked up enough penalties to finish behind the guys who were 20 laps down. 🤣

And no, I wasn't rooting for Senna; I was pulling for Mansell...
After a race like that, where I'm watching my guy Mansell fight tooth and nail against Senna, only to see him "win" because of some invisible officials? It would leave a bitter taste in my mouth.
And it’d be pretty damn hard to keep watching a sport like that. My chances of staying interested would be basically zero.
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F1 Montreal GP: June 7-9, 2019 in Formula 1 ·
Roger Wright94 said:All in all, I’d say I’m pretty happy with how things went.
Ferrari lost the race, but they gave Mercedes a hell of a fight.
I just wish they'd swapped Charles Leclerc's tires immediately after Sebastian Vettel's, so he could have actually stayed in the mix and hunted down Lewis Hamilton.
This race was basically a blueprint for how to take down Mercedes. You have to execute everything flawlessly. Every single detail. And honestly, some parts were brilliant.

Lewis made more mistakes than Sebastian Vettel, from FP through to the race. But he managed to escape without any major fallout. The car made up for it, IMO.
Sebastian Vettel paid a heavy price for his error. But he proved he can still compete at this level.

I wouldn't go that far...
Because if you ask me, losing that win is partly on Charles Leclerc, and partly on Ferrari's pit wall...

If the kid had nailed qualifying and started on the front row, none of this would have happened. Hamilton wouldn't have even been breathing down Sebastian Vettel's neck.

Then again, if Sebastian Vettel hadn't messed up, we wouldn't be having this conversation either...

So, honestly? I don't see how anyone can be satisfied here.
Both drivers screwed up, so there's no way you can call this a perfect weekend...

And Ferrari blew the tactics again, only this time it was with Charles Leclerc... another mess.
Charles shouldn't have been that far behind Lewis Hamilton in the first place, and that's on Ferrari long before any penalties or controversial exits came into play...
Which left Sebastian Vettel right in the crosshairs of Lewis Hamilton—a Lewis Hamilton who didn't even have to worry about watching his back because Ferrari's crazy strategy for Charles Leclerc let him drive freely.

The car was actually quite good, but the execution? Not exactly spot on...
It's just that instead of being a total disaster like usual, this weekend was merely "bad."
Was it great? Not even close.
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F1 Montreal GP: June 7-9, 2019 in Formula 1 ·
Raymond Anderson4 said:Look at those guys on the pit wall. They completely forgot. 🤣
It’s honestly no surprise they're getting slapped around by Mercedes year after year.

The most tragic part of this whole mess? They probably overlooked something that was almost certainly true. 🤦
Look, conspiracy theories aside, I honestly doubt they even have the capacity to put together a decent strategy to keep their number two driver behind...
Honestly, if they can't even figure out a basic strategy to keep one driver ahead of the competition—and they’re clearly blind to what's happening right in front of them—how on earth are they supposed to pull off anything meaningful?

[No content provided to rewrite] kaže:
Heh, someone's acting a little high and mighty.

Alright, you little fanboys, looks like you think our hero is a bit of a cheat.

If anyone’s acting high and mighty, it’s the people coming up with these pathetic excuses for the decision...
For crying out loud, you can't just fly off onto the grass, launch yourself over the curb, and then think just holding the steering wheel hard left is going to fix everything. 🤦
Good grief, that’s just a recipe for spinning out and hitting the wall.

Good morning. If you're making constant steering corrections, maybe don't try holding the wheel perfectly straight while slamming the brakes to the floor at the same time. Just a thought.🤦

Besides, what's even the point of all those insane excuses and total bullshit...
Look, the penalty is the penalty. The rules are the rules, regardless of whether they actually meant to do it or not.
Penalty doesn't even matter. You get flagged the second you go off and rejoin the track, especially when someone else has to slam on their brakes or swerve to avoid hitting you. It's a wash.
And Lujo was right there, dodging and braking like crazy...
Well, that's it. Goodbye...

The penalty itself isn't even questionable. It follows the rules exactly, plain and simple.
Sure, maybe it's technically within the rules—it’s their second pair of shoes, after all—but let's be real: it's still a total stretch.

Besides, the rule itself is questionable, and honestly, the timing of when they handed out the penalty is pretty sketchy too...
That mid-race penalty really just completely trashed the finish.

What’s actually wild is how fast they handed down that penalty to Sebastian Vettel. It felt almost instant—like they didn't even blink.
Then again, it took them almost half the race just to hand out Max Verstappen's penalty. 🤦
Even if that unsafe release was arguably the worst we've ever seen, Max still slammed into Bottas, shredded his tire, and basically nuked his entire race—all while putting a whole bunch of mechanics in a seriously dangerous spot.
And we really needed to spend half the race debating this? It’s a total toss-up, honestly. You could argue it either way, yet they still managed to drop a decision in record time. Typical.
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F1 Montreal GP: June 7-9, 2019 in Formula 1 ·
fadedpanther51 said:What are we actually expecting from this appeal, and who are they even appealing to? The local water board? 😁

This appeal is a total joke...
A steward's decision made during the race isn't changing, even if they wanted to...
Absolutely not. It’s honestly ridiculous and laughable that an appeal is even an option, considering the results are final and impossible to alter regardless of any protest...

It’s basically just window dressing for the fans—some way to make it look like Binotto and Ferrari are actually doing something about these issues...

And even if, by some miracle, they could change the race result (which they ☕) what arguments would Ferrari even use to justify it?
Sebastian Vettel was penalized based on the rules currently in place, and there’s zero chance they can dispute that...
Whether those rules actually make sense is a different story, but strictly speaking, everything followed the rulebook...

If anyone needs to be filing an appeal here, it’s Liberty Media, and they should be protesting hard...
Because rules like these and penalties like that are a straight-up shot in the foot for their business. Seriously, Formula 1 just shot itself in the leg with that call.
They completely killed the last ten laps of a great race and turned the whole thing into a circus...
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F1 Montreal GP: June 7-9, 2019 in Formula 1 ·
gentlemoose57 said:


Hehe.

The guy's right—if he’d flown off like that on Friday and Saturday, he wouldn't be hitting the racing line with the pedal floored like this.

Cheering for one driver over another and supporting the destruction of a race just because some suits made an administrative call in a back room... only someone with zero love for motorsports would do that.
And yeah, sure... "destroying the race," absolutely nothing else going on here...

The stewards could have easily let the racing continue and just penalized Sebastian Vettel after the fact if they were totally certain about their call. Problem solved.
But then THEY would have to stand there and explain themselves to a mountain of reporters and the entire world. They'd be the ones stuck defending that decision even during an appeal.
Instead, they made the call in a way that makes an appeal impossible, instantly shifting all the fan rage and public fury onto Mercedes and Lewis Hamilton.

Cowardly and pathetic. 👎
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F1 Montreal GP: June 7-9, 2019 in Formula 1 ·
stormyviper2 said:It’ll be fun watching those post-race PR interviews on YouTube.

https://wtf1.com/post/racing-drivers...tels-penalty/?

Funny seeing Damon Hill, Nigel Mansell, and Jenson Button all agreeing that this penalty is total nonsense...
I could deal with it if it were just Germans, but when the Brits chime in? Yeah, we've got a problem.😬

Liberty seriously needs to step up and put out this fire...
If they keep pulling this kind of stupid stuff, they're going to kill off what little viewership is left.
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F1 Montreal GP: June 7-9, 2019 in Formula 1 ·
crimsonhawk23 said:
Seriously, have you even seen the runoff areas at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway? 🙂
Comparing apples to oranges on a forum isn't exactly deep analysis. 😁

Technically, they both land you in trouble,
but saying they're identical or even close? Not really...
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