Posts by Lisa Rivera

Once the reforms finally take hold, we’ll be looking at five hours of religious studies per week and zero hours of the Democratic Party or other such devilish influences... It is best to strike while the iron is hot.

brightheron64 said:Well, it looks like things are finally starting to shift...

So, the school year just kicked off, and in my daughter's third-grade class, we have a whole new group of non-believers emerging—there are seven of them now out of nineteen students total. And honestly, they seemed to be having quite the blast out on the playground during second period today...

I can't help but wonder, though, if we'll see that number climb to twelve or so in a few years; maybe then religious studies might actually become the first or last period on the schedule
...🎉

Our teacher is an atheist and refuses to allow religious studies during the main instruction block...😍

There are two students in our class who don't attend religious studies, and considering we live in Oakland, I don't foresee much changing in the foreseeable future...🕺

shadowhawk31 said:First off, I'm a guy.

Second, are you implying that a decent education is built on domestic chores?

Look, some people argue that students today are already drowning in coursework.
But you think they have way too little on their plates, which is why you're pushing for foreign language classes starting in kindergarten.

The whole thing surrounding Jokić's reform is a total mystery—nobody actually knows what's written in those proposals—yet everyone is backing it. Some people support it because they're terrified of extra workloads (kind of like you), while others think it’s going to axe foreign language programs entirely.

To begin with, your gender is entirely irrelevant to this discussion.

Furthermore, I never claimed the Japanese system was based on domestic chores; your own suggestion was essentially to "fire the janitors and give them tablets."

The sheer volume of useless filler in a curriculum isn't strictly tied to the number of subjects offered. If students can manage sitting through two hours of religious studies a week memorizing trivialities, I fail to see why it would be such a burden to spend one hour learning something genuinely vital for the modern era... something like computer science or a second foreign language...

@sunshinestar
It’s almost as if today’s kids aren't already incompetent enough... lacking the basic motor skills our generation developed without a tablet glued to our hands at all times. 🤦

So, your vision for a 21st-century educational reform is essentially based on children who spend their days cleaning, cooking, and tapping away at a screen with a single finger? Especially when they don't even touch actual computer science until middle school, let alone meaningful foreign language instruction which most American schools barely start until much later... though I suppose we still find time for two hours of religious studies a week starting in first grade.
I have absolutely nothing against teaching them life skills like housework, but domestic help isn't exactly the primary flaw in the American education system... 🤣

I honestly find it baffling how someone with such a limited grasp of history, ethics, and theology—someone who struggles so visibly with basic facts—can have the audacity to weigh in on this topic at all.
To be blunt, about 95% of the "historical" and "ethical" points you’re making are just flat-out wrong. Let's try to untangle this from the beginning...

briskbison55 said:I mean, you really shouldn't go calling on those history buffs too aggressively... because, I don't know, they might just end up explaining how the first schools actually came from the Church. And honestly? They’d probably be right. Without the Church, I guess humanity wouldn't have even made it out of the Middle Ages, or at least not in the way we know it. It's just one of those things, maybe.

I’m saying this for the third time now—look, we shouldn't be being all exclusive here. Not that I want to sound completely brainless or like some total weirdo for how I phrased it, but seriously... if you actually took my last post at face value, you might need to go get your head checked. My whole point was just to mock the idea that parents need to hold their kids' hands every single second instead of just letting them go out and play. That's all it was.

Quinn:

Religious education and the church teaching kids about ethics and morality? I mean, really... what kind of ethics are we actually talking about here? Is it the kind where you just go around discriminating against anyone who doesn't believe exactly what you believe? Or maybe it's that whole thing where you judge someone just because they don't feel the same way you do? It feels a bit off, I guess. Maybe I'm overthinking it, but it seems like it's more about drawing lines in the sand than actually being a good person.

I mean, no matter how much those judgmental types and similar folks keep harping on about it, the church just doesn't teach that stuff. It’s such a massive issue here—you have people running religious education classes whose own kids don't even attend. It’s honestly just this senseless intolerance for no reason at all. I guess... I don't know, it feels like tolerance should really be the hallmark of you progressive atheists, right? It just makes sense. 😉

Quinn:

It’s just... I don't know, this whole chauvinistic moral code where being "male" is somehow the center of the universe? It’s everywhere. You’ve got the male god, the male savior, the male priest—basically, everything is framed through men, while women are treated like these second-class beings, just some afterthought created from a rib or something. Like, apparently, a woman isn't even fit to hold a position of power or pass down something as "sacred" as the word of God. Honestly, I don't know how people live like that. It actually makes me feel sick, thinking about this kind of "morality and ethics." It's just... ugh.

Yeah, that's definitely a red herring—like, a totally biased way of looking at things without showing even a shred of tolerance for anyone else's perspective. I mean, honestly, this is exactly why we have to make sure everyone actually has the right to choose for themselves... otherwise, these kinds of lies just end up being accepted as the absolute truth. It's scary, really.
Quinn:

The Ten Commandments? I mean, isn't it kind of sad, honestly... like, if someone is actually a believer, shouldn't they just *know* better? It feels a bit heavy-handed, I guess. Like, does God really have to step in and go, "Hey, don't kill people," or "Don't steal stuff"? Those are just basic human decency things, right? It’s almost a little pathetic that those kinds of rules even need to be laid out like that. Maybe I'm overthinking it, or maybe I'm just being cynical, but it feels a bit redundant, you know?

I mean, I could probably ask you... is it actually kind of sad? Like, the fact that we seriously need laws written down just to tell people, "Hey, don't kill anyone" or "Don't steal stuff or you're going to jail." It feels heavy when you think about it. Back then, before all this legal paperwork, there was just... this other kind of justice, I guess. Maybe it was more raw? But I suppose the biggest thing is that we shouldn't be pulling things out of their historical context, right? You can't really judge how things worked back then by looking at them through today's lens. That's just... yeah, it's a lot to wrap your head around.

Quinn:

I mean, we secular folks don't exactly need some deity hovering over us telling us what's right or wrong... we just know, you know? We wouldn't want to do bad stuff anyway. And honestly, we don't need someone threatening us with the devil just to make us act decent. Ethics and morality? They come from people, not from God.

So, I guess that’s why religious studies is an elective in American schools—it's totally up to you.
Quinn:

Studies have actually shown that kids raised in religious environments tend to be less tolerant and more aggressive toward their peers. Just think about why that might be.

And, uh, there are also studies saying that people who believe everything they read online are usually wrong most of the time, too... maybe think about why that happens.

Quinn:

Parents and society are the ones teaching them morality.

Great—less than 10% of highly educated Americans, plus a fair amount of people without even a high school diploma. It’s almost a miracle that kids aren't all just watching MTV or listening to pop music instead of enrolling in trade schools rather than philosophy degrees and other... well, useless stuff.😉

That is incorrect. Formal education existed for millennia before your religious institutions ever established their school systems.
Contrary to your worldview, the church actually stifled intellectual progress and scientific inquiry, dragging us into a dark age rather than "saving" us from one...

As for the rest of your ramblings regarding Serena Williams and similar topics, I see no reason to even dignify them with a response, as I am unfamiliar with her work. Unlike yourself, I possess a functioning brain that isn't alienated by historical facts, general culture, or logic; I am perfectly capable of forming an opinion based on actual knowledge. I realize that concept might be somewhat abstract for some people...

briskbison55 said:I guess I'll just ignore the black-and-white way I phrased my last post and just offer a warning: the Roman Empire basically slaughtered the entire known world just because they wanted to spread their powerful civilization, which was built entirely on slaves serving a tiny group of 'enlightened' people. And then, I suppose I should also ignore the fact that those Romans and Greeks eventually converted to the faith of the very slaves they used to rule.

In contrast to Christian Europe, which began with The Crusades, followed by the persecution of scientists and so-called "witches," and continued through humanitarian efforts (shtefy 🤣) involving the subjugation of Africa, the conquest of much of the globe, and the ethnic cleansing of indigenous peoples in both Americas, Australia, and Oceania—all while imposing its religion—and more recently, Christian America, which carries on this tradition by printing "In God We Trust" on its currency while simultaneously causing the suffering of millions in the pursuit of oil...
You cursed, "enlightened" Roman pagan. They were certainly worse than the "enlightened" Christians who followed them...

Jason Ortiz5 said:It's nothing like the Crusades, which were actually motivated by humanitarian goals.

😉

briskbison55 said:Honestly, you know what? Just go call up some historians and ask them how the first colleges and universities actually started throughout the world... then we can get back to this if you really want to have a serious debate about it.

I mean, that's a pretty good example, I guess... except it's talking about the 12th century AD, and we're specifically dealing with the Middle Ages here. 😉

👏 Forget the Greek academies. Forget the advanced Far East. Forget the Middle East, which spent centuries writing about those smelly (Christian) Europeans while they were lightyears ahead of us in every scientific discipline imaginable... And since we're on the subject, do you know what happened to them next? They reshaped Christianity (ahem, Islam) and tumbled straight into their own Dark Ages.
Are you really suggesting we should take this seriously?

briskbison55 said:I mean, tribes living before the Ten Commandments were basically in the wild, right? It was pretty brutal—way more women per man with zero rights besides cooking and having kids, blood feuds without any actual legal system, basically just survival of the fittest. Of course, some mainstream historians like those Ivy League types might try to argue otherwise and claim things were all controlled and orderly back then, but honestly, those people only call themselves historians in certain circles.😁

And what did we say about being exclusionary earlier?

Exactly. Moses wrote down the Ten Commandments in the desert after fleeing ancient Egypt, and we all know that ancient Egypt was little more than a collection of scattered tribes—cannibals with even less law, culture, or self-control than most, much like other early civilizations.
Oops, what kind of "civilizations" am I talking about? I mean savage tribes...

Then the Christian God arrived and enlightened the entire globe through those ten divine commandments 🤔 Fortunately, without them, we would still be living like savages in the Amazon. Or perhaps like those savage, immoral tribes of Buddhists, Taoists, Hindus, Shintoists, or pagans. And don't get me started on the ancient Greeks and Romans, peoples even more unrefined and wild, whose peak achievement was barely pitching a tent over a branch...
They still haven't grasped the concept of good and evil today; they just fight one another—unlike our God-enlightened world. Not to mention those tribes where, instead of the woman being subordinate to the man in the divine hierarchy as seen in Christianity, she is simply subservient to him.
And then there are the tribes where women hold the power; that's called a matriarchy, and they are the wildest and most godless of them all...

briskbison55 said:In the US, those kinds of options are already on the table if there's a need for them. And honestly, this whole part about kids wandering off during class still doesn't make sense to me. I mean, I was a kid once, right? We used to have gaps in our schedules all the time, and we'd just go wild—playing football, tag, trying to talk to girls... 😁

Huh, wise words. I guess if you had said that about Archimedes it would be one thing, but specifically for Newton...

If you made a list of everything you haven't heard anything about, it would probably shame every book ever written.

Anyway, it seems like everyone is just hyper-fixated on religious education because they're hyper-fixated on the church. Maybe you guys think our society is good enough that kids will just pick up basic ethics and morals on their own, but I don't really have that much faith in a nation that uses more tobacco products than almost anywhere else and sees alcohol consumption rising year after year while health issues are climbing too.

That's a stellar argument, suggesting that sexual harassment of young girls happens during those unsupervised gaps. I wonder how we ever thought to protest unnecessary scheduling gaps when children might be subjected to THAT while they're unattended...

briskbison55 said:In the US, those kinds of options are already on the table if there's a need for them. And honestly, this whole part about kids wandering off during class still doesn't make sense to me. I mean, I was a kid once, right? We used to have gaps in our schedules all the time, and we'd just go wild—playing football, tag, trying to talk to girls... 😁

Huh, wise words. I guess if you had said that about Archimedes it would be one thing, but specifically for Newton...

If you made a list of everything you haven't heard anything about, it would probably shame every book ever written.

Anyway, it seems like everyone is just hyper-fixated on religious education because they're hyper-fixated on the church. Maybe you guys think our society is good enough that kids will just pick up basic ethics and morals on their own, but I don't really have that much faith in a nation that uses more tobacco products than almost anywhere else and sees alcohol consumption rising year after year while health issues are climbing too.

Religious studies and the church teaching children ethics and morality? What kind of ethics? Discriminating against your neighbor because they don't share your faith, or judging them because they don't feel the same way you do? Or perhaps it's that particular brand of morality where you "sell sheep a bill of goods," telling believers they should live impoverished for earthly riches while being "rich in spirit," all while you drive a brand new Ford and sip wine from a golden chalice—funded by the donations and taxes stripped from the poor and the elderly retirees who can barely afford groceries on the 9th of the month, yet still left $1.75 at the service the other day? Or maybe it's that chauvinistic morality where men rule the planet. A male God, a male Savior, a male priest, a man chosen by God... while women are treated as second-class citizens, mere appendages, deemed unfit to pass down something as "high" as the Word of God. Honestly, please... the very notion of such "ethics and morality" makes me sick...

shadowcrane91 said:Whoa, where am I even claiming that???
It *can* happen, it just isn't happening right now.....
Personally, I don't have an issue with it

It’s quite sad to see one self-proclaimed "educator" addressing everyone else with such a condescending tone in every single post, using those question marks... not to mention that this "educator" doesn't seem to care about the welfare of all the children in the school. 🕺
Would you really send half a preschool group out into the hallway for an hour just so you could teach religious studies to the other half?

briskbison55 said:Since we're being ridiculous—well, obviously there's going to be plenty of evil until religious studies becomes a mandatory subject through every single stage of schooling. 😁 But honestly, if I started writing about the old American educational system and how the government treated every single counter-revolutionary element... maybe it's better not to go there here.

briskbison55 said:Well, personally, I find the exaggeration a bit much. Like, do you have an issue with the Ten Commandments? Of course not. Sure, how someone chooses to follow them is another story, and that’s why we need actual laws, but those general guidelines are just as important as how you're raised at home or your own character. I see religious ed no differently than any other lecture; you get a framework and some principles, and then it's up to you how you use them. I think anyone who views it strictly as brainwashing is totally missing the point and looking at the whole thing through a really narrow lens.

The Ten Commandments? It’s truly pathetic that a believer needs a deity to instruct them "thou shalt not kill" or "thou shalt not steal" and similar trivialities. For us secularists, we don't require a god to tell us those things are wrong, nor do we need the threat of hell to ensure we behave ourselves.
Ethics and morality don't originate from God; they originate from humanity.
Studies have shown that children raised within religion tend to be less tolerant and more aggressive toward their peers. One might wonder why...
It is because they are indoctrinated from infancy into value systems that insist THEIR god is the only true one, that THEIR believers are the ones headed for heaven, and that THEIR commandments are the absolute truth, rendering all other global religions incorrect. Religious education teaches children discrimination, not morality. True morality is taught by parents and society. And frankly, one has to question the morality of a small believer and their deeply religious parents, who teach the child that non-Christians are destined for hell, telling an innocent child that the devil will torment them simply because they don't believe in a god—that is a lived experience. That is your "ethical and moral" faith and religious education: a foundation for discrimination from the very beginning...

shadowcrane91 said:Can you point out a single place in my posts where I said I'd have a problem with religion class being during the opposite shift....????

I have zero issues with that.....

Take my first graders, for instance...... five of my kids take an elective computer lab taught by our teacher..... three of them don't stay for after-school care...... so they have a one-hour gap before computer lab and just hang out in the hallway..... and nobody's complaining.... everyone just dealt with it.

And how on earth do you know those kids went home and then came back for tech and PE???
Maybe the situation was such that for some families, it wasn't even worth the trip home.

You simply, absolutely do not grasp the situation.
Waiting for an ELECTIVE SUBJECT (like computer science) with a gap in the schedule is fundamentally different from being forced to wait for a MANDATORY subject because of how an elective was placed—specifically regarding religious studies in high school.
In the first scenario, you made the choice to have your child wait for a class they didn't strictly have to attend. You chose to let them sit in a hallway for something non-obligatory.
In the second, the waiting is imposed upon the child; they are stuck waiting for a required class because the administration shoved an elective into the schedule that creates a conflict.
If they had scheduled Islamic studies on one day, perhaps some other faith group on another, and a Jewish studies class on a third, and your child was left standing in the hall because they had English right before the religious studies block followed by Math, you would be making quite a fuss. But as long as things remain convenient for you, who cares about the "others," right?...

Andrew Doyle said:Fantastic! I mean, those Norse myths really do carry some weight, don't they? 👍

But does your guy even have a clue what atheism actually means? I tried explaining the whole concept to him the other day when he came home claiming he was autistic. Honestly, I was baffled—I had no idea where he was getting this from... so I asked him why on earth he thinks he's on the spectrum 🤷 and he tells me straight to my face that he's autistic simply because he doesn't believe in God. 🤣 Naturally, I had to sit him down and walk him through the actual definitions of atheism versus theism... though I didn't dive too deep into the clinical side of autism. 😬

He lacks the vocabulary for "atheism," but he understands what his grandmother believes and what his friends believe; everything has been laid out for him, and he has simply concluded that he doesn't believe in a deity.
Until, of course, he decided that a god does exist after all. Not the one his social circle tries to push on him, mind you, but rather Thor and his associates... wouldn't you agree? 😬

Andrew Doyle said:And they picked on my son constantly—just relentless bullying starting back in first grade. Eventually, I had to teach him one thing: when those kids corner you again asking why you don't go to Sunday school, or why you don't believe in God, and all that nonsense—don't engage!. All you need to say is, "I don't know anything about that. My mom handles all of that, so you should ask her." Even if they try to insult you by saying your mom doesn't know what she's talking about—do not get sucked into the argument! Just tell them you'll pass the message along and let her deal with it later. End of discussion.

And you think people haven't questioned me? 😁
I was actually invited to their school once to assist with a workshop, and the whole crowd descended on me. "Why don't you let him attend religious studies?" "Why don't you believe in God?" It was endless... basically, I told them exactly what any rational adult would have said in that moment: that we don't all believe the same things and everyone has the right to be different. Basic pedagogy, really.

The bottom line for me is that they don't pick on my son anymore. To be fair, he's a very tough fourth grader now, and he's certainly not an easy target for teasing.

Everything is fine, actually. He’s moved past being an atheist; now he’s a Viking because apparently, he believes in Thor. It's his choice, naturally. I was fair with him and told him he can believe in whatever he wants—if that's what he feels like doing...☕
If the school tries to mandate religious education in his grade later on, I’ll certainly be requesting that they find someone to instruct him in Old Norse traditions during those same hours. As a member of a religious minority, he should be entitled to his own instruction... unless, of course, I should just sue the public school district for discrimination? 🤣

My mother mentioned that one of her son's classmates told him today that the devil was going to kick him right in the gut and drag him straight to hell just because he doesn't believe in God. ☕
First grade...
It's funny how Catholics are supposedly known for their boundless tolerance, though I suppose I shouldn't be surprised. By next year, they'll probably be holding a class vote to see if they can burn him at the stake.

It’s quite evident they have absolutely no idea how to conduct themselves or even how to project an image of actual competence—they’ve finally decided to... reinstate mid-term grades 😲
I suppose this is their grand way of making up for that disastrous overhaul of the school system. ☕

Now this has truly spiraled into pure, unadulterated idiocy.

Grace Davis77 said:Saint Catherine Quote

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Thanks, 🙂

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Thanks

Raymond Wright4 said:I have never understood how a purely religious rite could morph into such a blatant commercial enterprise. Is the true purpose of a First Communion really to indulge every teenage whim or host lavish banquets for everyone else? I attended a recent ceremony that concluded with a lunch lasting over six hours, though I suppose that level of excess comes with a staggering price tag.

As the old saying goes: the sponsor pays the price, and I wouldn't be surprised if some godparents are still paying off the credit card debt from those celebrations today.

It seems as though fewer and fewer people actually care about the faith or the sanctity of the ritual anymore; they just show up for the gifts...☕

In case anyone else finds themselves facing this...
get to the ER immediately.
I spent two full weeks completely bedridden, surviving on heavy-duty antibiotics and applying antibiotic ointment twice a day.🙂
It’s a nightmare...

On Wednesday, I decided to strap on those ice skates and pull my little one around on a sled... I wore them for just one day last week and foolishly convinced myself that this would finally be the year where the equipment wouldn't betray me. How wrong I was.
The blades absolutely shredded the skin on both my legs. On one leg, it was just a superficial scrape, but on the other, it peeled right down to the raw flesh, about the size of a quarter. Everything seemed manageable until yesterday.

Yesterday morning, I woke up with a leg so painful I could barely move it, let alone put any weight on it. After spending the entire day dousing it in antiseptic spray, I actually started to believe things were improving because I could walk somewhat normally again.

Then came this morning... the exact same nightmare. I woke up and once again, I can't even stand on it.
Everything from my ankle down is swollen, incredibly tender to the touch, and my foot has gone numb. Should I head to the ER or just keep going with the antiseptic? Honestly, the thought of sitting in an emergency room waiting area just because of a single square inch of scraped skin feels utterly exhausting...🙂

Does anyone have any recommendations? An ointment, a compress, a specific cream, anything at all?

edit: I applied some Bacitracin earlier.😢

Starting a new thread here...
I spent an entire hour sitting at my desk tonight, just feeling the electricity coursing through me, shaking my very soul... it was devastating. 😬

It was truly horrific. I've never experienced anything quite like it. Eventually, I retreated to bed, only to find my entire body prickling with this unbearable, stinging itch. I reached for the blanket, but then—in the pitch black—lightning seemed to crackle all over the fabric... 😲 I threw the blanket onto the floor and grabbed another one. Then I tossed that aside too and reached for a comforter. Guess what? 🤣 Sparks actually started flying out of it. 🤣

I moved my poor little boy—who isn't mine, but I love him dearly—into his own bed and retreated to the couch... since I had run out of blankets, I ended up wrapping myself in a towel. I lay there thinking I might finally get some sleep, but goodness, the shaking followed me there, too. I tried sitting on a chair, but the tremors continued. My skin felt incredibly itchy wherever my hair touched my face. I just broke down and started crying. 🤦 I opened the window to let in some damp air, tried taking a shower, used lotion, creams... everything. But nothing worked. No relief whatsoever. I went back to check my bed—it’s a metal frame—and it was vibrating incessantly. So, I decided to fight back. 🙂 I grabbed some small pots and pans and began tossing them across the blankets and the bed, dragging them back and forth in a desperate hope that they might somehow absorb the electrical charge. When I touched the edge of the bed with a pan, there was a tiny explosion that startled me, but after that, silence. I actually thought I had won. I settled into bed, feeling triumphant, only to realize the nightmare was starting all over again. 🙂

By 8:00 AM, I finally succumbed to exhaustion, even as the electricity continued to rattle my bones. 😍

Death, I have to disagree. Honestly...

I’m not putting the child on trial here. My point was simply that we need to sit them down and have a serious conversation about it. This isn't a one-off occurrence; it will happen again, and they eventually need to learn how to shoulder their own responsibilities—like realizing that grabbing a cookie isn't worth causing trouble for the rest of the family.

And really, how can you assume a ten-year-old wouldn't grasp the concept of borrowing? You're underestimating them...

By the way, Kevin Bailey2, you mentioned you were dealing with this when you were only seven or eight, and that you wouldn't wish it on any child... well, I hate to break it to you, but there isn't much you can say to change his reality. It’s just the hand he was dealt, just like yours. His mother doesn't have the funds, so he’s forced to grow up a little too fast. Because if his family spends money on a Happy Meal, they might find themselves without a decent meal on the table later that day...