Chloe Hughes6 said:What are some of the symptoms of schizophrenia that don't involve hallucinations, delusions, feeling like you're being followed, hearing voices, receiving commands from the TV, or refusing food because of fears of poisoning—those other typical issues associated with the condition?
Well, there are what we call "negative symptoms." Things like an emotional flatline, poverty of speech, a total lack of motivation, or just being unable to feel pleasure. Then you’ve got thought disorders—for instance, thoughts can get totally blocked due to hallucinations.
Basically, it doesn't have to be everything. People tend to label just about anything as schizophrenia.
It’s a tough spot for doctors, too—everyone is different, I suppose. For me, experimental drugs managed to clear up some symptoms, though others... well, they lingered. Anyway, I’m just hoping they land on the right therapy soon.
Walter Cruz24 said:Hello everyone.
I am looking for some advice, an opinion, or just a sounding board...
About 23 years ago, my father was diagnosed with schizophrenia. Thankfully, he found a treatment plan that actually worked for him, allowing him to function relatively normally most of the time. This leads me to wonder: how much "normalcy" can someone realistically maintain while being heavily medicated with antipsychotics and antidepressants?
Over the years, there were two instances where he decided to stop taking his medication because he felt he no longer needed it. Predictably, the illness returned. However, after a brief stay at the hospital and getting back on his meds, he recovered quite quickly both times. Because of this, I haven't spent a lot of time truly grappling with the reality of his condition; for about 85% of the time, I didn't even see him as being ill.
But this year, things changed. He started feeling like his pills weren't working like they used to—as if he were becoming resistant to them—and he began experiencing more severe physical side effects. He asked to switch his medication, which resulted in a hospital stay. We all expected this to be a quick transition: he’d get the new meds, stabilize, and everything would be fine.
It started out okay for the first two months, but then everything spiraled. The new therapy isn't working for him at all, and honestly, he feels worse now than he did before. I am incredibly worried. I’m terrified that his recovery this time will be painfully slow, and I don't know how he'll handle it. He absolutely hates being in the hospital and finds the environment miserable, yet he can't come home right now.
My biggest fear is that he's going to become a guinea pig. I'm scared they'll just keep cycling through different drugs, testing one after another, until they stumble upon a combination that sticks. Unfortunately, the healthcare system today is so overwhelmed; there are too many patients and not enough doctors to provide individualized care, and you can really see the strain it puts on everything. 😢
So, here is what I wanted to ask... Is it actually possible to find the right combination of medications for every single individual? And should I trust the attending physician blindly, or should I seek a second opinion? If I do seek help, who specifically should I look for? Should I just let nature take its course, or is there something more I can do to help him? Is there any way to intervene?
Also, given that he was doing so well previously, is it possible for him to feel "well" again? Or does mental health inevitably decline with age? Does it ever become irreversible? 😕
P.S. One more thing. Does a person suffer during a mild psychotic episode? When the psychosis passes, do they remember everything they thought or said during that time, or is it a total blank? And when they return to their baseline state, do they feel distressed when they recall the episode?
For me, the psychosis was a truly chaotic mental state—so yeah, I definitely suffered through it. I remember all the bizarre delusions quite clearly; I could probably write a book about it. I have exactly one memory gap—I don't recall being taken to the hospital. I don't necessarily feel bad about the psychosis itself, since, in reality, I didn't do anything "weird"—I just completely stopped functioning. But, obviously, I wouldn't want to go through it again.
I’ve been dealing with some psychosis—emotional swings ranging from overwhelming intensity to just... nothing at all. Right now, I’m firmly in the "nothing" phase. I wouldn't necessarily label the ringing in my head as an auditory hallucination—it’s a toss-up, really—depending on whether you consider the source to be external or internal. Tell me, do you ever have one of those wild ideas where reality seems to shift based on your own thoughts? For instance, I once genuinely believed my thoughts were being broadcast on some secret TV channel for everyone to watch. This whole talking thing might just be a minor dissociation on my part. Anyway, if you find yourself unable to function, you should probably see a psychiatrist. They can determine if it's actually psychosis or something else.
Lawrence Bailey77 said:So, if I'm reading you right... you're basically saying I'm immature and stubborn? =🙂
It seems almost impossible that two people could be in this exact same state without the condition being contagious... unless, of course, there is something about schizophrenia that I simply don't grasp.☕
P.S. I know plenty of people... wherever I go, wherever I work, acquaintances tend to pop up everywhere... far more often than with my other colleagues. So, if I were truly antisocial, then even the most charming person in the world would be a total fraud 😁... but I just didn't feel like engaging. My ego has become so inflated that I don't see much point in joking around anymore.
People tell me I'm lazy. 😁 But honestly, I’d much rather spend my day meditating than being at a job. Maybe I'll have to head back to work eventually, but I'll probably just end up studying again because psychosis completely drains me .
Kenneth Campbell said:I’m not much for socializing either; solo activities suit me better. But... necessity eventually forces you to be social.
How do you expect to earn a living if you don't have any connections?
In an ideal world, I’d probably just head off to a monastery—at least there I’d be surrounded by people similar to myself; if they don't take me in, then maybe I'll just live as a drifter and meditate all day. I worked for two years, but that's really my last resort if everything else falls through. We'll see where reality ends up taking me.
I honestly can’t say I’m surprised when people dealing with schizophrenia develop a bizarre persona—it's almost a defense mechanism. Though, from their perspective, it’s actually everyone else who seems warped. To me, most people just perform emotions, harbor strange intentions, and live with this constant mental noise—obsessing over trivialities and endless chatter. How are you supposed to connect with someone like that without creating some sort of equally bizarre, artificial self just to bridge the gap?
Maintaining social ties is... difficult, after everything involving psychosis and those transcendental experiences. Don't get me wrong, I have friends, but they are people who have seen things—either because they've been through it themselves or they're hovering right on the edge of psychosis—so they understand how fluid reality really is. With them, we can discuss higher beings or unmanifested realities; what am I supposed to talk about with "normal" people? Sex, money, or gossip about neighbors? None of that interests me.
My psychiatrist keeps insisting that the whole point of my recovery is "resocialization." But frankly, I have zero interest in being social. I much prefer the solitude of my own mind—a mind sharpened by psychosis and the experience of unmanifested reality.
Those intense sensations during psychosis—they were honestly a nightmare. I’m just relieved they're gone. Feeling connected to the universe is actually quite a nice thing. ☕ I certainly wouldn't want to lose that—not really.
As for the bipolar side of things, I think only certain manic traits stuck around—mostly those grandiose ideas and that sense of having some sort of special mission. I'm working on shaking those delusions off. Luckily, I don't deal with the depressive side.
I used to think I had reached enlightenment—that I’d finally grasped at least half of what the human experience actually entails. Actually, I still tend to believe that. 😁
Mystics deal in visions, altered states of consciousness, transformed minds, and just plain bizarre ideas. Some honestly believed they were God, or that they’d unlocked the ultimate truth, or even that they could "read" someone else's mind—experiencing various incarnations across different planes of reality.
There are more similarities here than differences, I suppose. Besides, if you look at Wikipedia, depression and schizophrenia are actually listed as methods for inducing mystical states.
The one thing mystics never mention is the negative symptoms. They probably experience them too—it's just that they likely don't recognize them from a first-person perspective. 🤷
ruggedtinker9 said:Alright, I have a desire to re-engage with this discussion. I have spent a significant amount of time researching schizophrenia and various psychotic disorders. While I do not personally suffer from schizophrenia, I have experienced psychotic episodes myself—two severe ones and one milder instance—so I am quite familiar with what it feels like to exist within a distorted perception of reality. Schizophrenia, by definition, seems to be a chronic, long-term state of psychosis.
The prevailing theories suggesting that schizophrenia is strictly a brain disease seem, I suppose, rather questionable. There isn't definitive proof that it is a physiological disease in the traditional sense, because the MRI scans conducted thus far have only shown abnormalities in a small minority of cases; even in those instances, I would argue it doesn't necessarily prove that the condition is exclusively caused by schizophrenia.
In less developed nations where expensive antipsychotics aren't readily available, the recovery rates actually appear to be significantly higher than they are in "developed" Western countries.
One major taboo is the idea that people cannot recover from this "illness." That isn't entirely true, I think. The reality is that mental health patients are often treated terribly; they are handled poorly, denied hope, and deprived of the support they desperately need. They are broken individuals who communicate through metaphors to those living in "reality." They are wounded, and perhaps it is possible to "return them to reality" through specific techniques designed to decipher their metaphorical language.
Someone who hasn't endured a psychosis simply cannot understand the experience, because during my own psychosis, my reality was entirely real. My reality was just as tangible as the reality of someone who isn't psychotic. It presents a paradox: if my bizarre ideas aren't deemed acceptable by the majority, I am automatically shut down—emergency services, the police, the hospital, and an injection in the backside.
Antipsychotics were discovered somewhat by accident, and while they do seem to halt the psychotic process, one has to wonder what they leave in their wake. They leave behind people who are extremely compliant, but whose willpower and capacity to experience a quality life have been thoroughly inhibited.
I want to believe that psychosis might actually be a transformative process—a metamorphosis of the psyche that realizes there is much more to this world than just the standard nine-to-five grind. Archimedes would say, "Do not disturb my circles!" In that same vein, I would suggest that psychosis is a mystical metamorphosis of the mind, and until we have a professional staff capable of handling a fragmented psyche in an empathetic and sensitive manner, there may be no salvation for those with schizophrenia.
Ultimately, I find myself wondering—what role does schizophrenia play in the process of evolution?
I am convinced that the schizophrenic process is essentially a series of spiritual or mystical experiences. We touched on this briefly in this thread. I’ve noticed that during psychotic episodes—aside from the bizarre delusions, of course—it feels as though the mind, or the core of the mind, is shifting toward something better. I view it as a continuation of evolution. Naturally, my psychiatrist just laughs whenever I bring up these ideas.
Having bizarre delusions isn't exactly a walk in the park—not that I ever particularly enjoyed being in that headspace. Then again, maybe visions and altered states of consciousness are actually more "normal" than what most people consider reality. Who knows? I guess. How does the unknown manifest for you?
Do these entities we see in visions—or hear through voiced thoughts and intrusive impulses—actually exist, or are they just projections of our own minds?
Are medications closing off an actual channel of communication, or are they simply destroying our mental 'projections'?
Anyway—ever since I started the meds—I haven't really been 'living' alongside other beings. Sometimes I feel a bit of regret about it... though other times, maybe not so much.
Personally, I think the ideal setup would be an outdoor retreat—just getting out into nature where people can actually exchange experiences. Everyone gets a turn to speak, everyone gets a turn to listen. It’s much more organic than sitting in some stuffy hall.
Eight hours of meditation a day!?! Well, damn. Cheers to that. My crew and I used to do something similar, though our sessions were much shorter, and we still ended up losing our minds a little bit going totally nuts all at once!! 😲 😁
Actually, I heard that the path taken by David Smith—the IBM instructor who first introduced me to meditation back in 1980—was almost identical to yours. But look, people change over the decades. By his later years, he had pivoted entirely to becoming a specialist in a different kind of spirituality: http://furthermore.com/us-life/recipe-for-...body/243611
It makes you wonder how your own journey might end up looking down the road, doesn't it??
I used to get hit by those feelings too, though rarely. But back then, I was having visions constantly, which actually made the meditation quite interesting. Nowadays, as a result, I have this profound silence, mental focus, and a pretty stable mood. I guess I'm mostly glad I dedicated so much time to it.
Personally, I think the ideal setup would be an outdoor retreat—just getting out into nature where people can actually exchange experiences. Everyone gets a turn to speak, everyone gets a turn to listen. It’s much more organic than sitting in some stuffy hall.
Eight hours of meditation a day!?! Well, damn. Cheers to that. My crew and I used to do something similar, though our sessions were much shorter, and we still ended up losing our minds a little bit going totally nuts all at once!! 😲 😁
Actually, I heard that the path taken by David Smith—the IBM instructor who first introduced me to meditation back in 1980—was almost identical to yours. But look, people change over the decades. By his later years, he had pivoted entirely to becoming a specialist in a different kind of spirituality: http://furthermore.com/us-life/recipe-for-...body/243611
It makes you wonder how your own journey might end up looking down the road, doesn't it??
Tantra isn't really my thing, but hey, you never know. 😁
I went through something similar myself—and let's just say there was no returning to "normal" life. I quit my job, dropped out of college, and spent about six to eight hours a day meditating in pursuit of the Truth. It’s become my purpose—my... whatever you want to call that higher calling. If I had to do it all over again right now, I probably would.
I suppose I don't know what the future holds. Life outside of a structured program is tough; you basically have to abandon everything. Maybe I'll head to a monastery, maybe I'll end up wandering the country as a drifter, or find some niche hobby and try to make a living off it... 🤷
But honestly? In the end, I realized I don't even care. Whatever Reality decides to throw my way, I'll just adapt. And frankly, I'm actually quite happy to be done with that whole "normal" life thing.
They clearly know enough to develop medication that brings your intellect back to a functional level—especially these newer atypical ones. During my last psychotic episode, I couldn't even manage basic counting and my memory was full of holes. No amount of talk therapy would have pulled me out of that state. Zyprexa helped—now I can actually hold a conversation and feel... well, normal. Of course, dialogue still matters—which is why we have psychiatrists who actually understand these patients, along with others who have walked a similar path.
You might be able to qualify for $167-style social security benefits. That’s what I rely on. I suppose if your psychiatrist signs off on certain paperwork, you could also look into disability—though I don't personally receive that, so I couldn't tell you the exact amount.
Taylor Campbell4 said:It’s the same story for anyone who sets the bar way too high for themselves.
Anyway—I have a friend dealing with delusions, intrusive thoughts, and constant auditory hallucinations, yet he refuses to take any medication at all.
When we first met, I didn't even realize he was struggling with anything specific; I just thought he was a bit "off"—I knew he'd been hospitalized once, but I figured it was probably just some drug-related issue or something along those lines. But since I've started hanging out with him more lately, it seems like things might actually be getting worse, though I can't say for sure. Sometimes he mumbles to himself as if he's talking to these voices—he's convinced they're sending him thoughts via satellite or using mind control. When I try to joke about it to lighten the mood, he refers to that specific voice as a "bitch." 😁 He kind of plays along with the humor, but not entirely. I don't know him deeply enough to understand why he won't take his meds, and it looks like he isn't even seeing a psychiatrist anymore. I tried explaining to him that there's no satellite involved—just his own thoughts, which, honestly, we all have to some degree. 😳 The thing is—Stoss—he functions somewhat normally (well, "normally" is a stretch, but he gets by), but he says it becomes overwhelming when he's doing mundane things, like waiting in line at Chase Bank or something. Which, understandably, makes sense. Being a bit of a paranoid person myself, I'm mostly just worried that things will spiral for him. Who knows what his "satellite" might send my way next? 😁
Ultimately, if he could just pay attention to those voices less—if he could ignore that one voice simply by tuning it out—I know it would diminish, but I suppose that's easier said than done.
This friend lives with his mother, and from what I gather, he hasn't had any major outbursts in quite a while. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
As for me, I feel like I've touched upon almost every diagnosis I can think of, just in passing. 😁 The only time it really hit me hard was about two years ago, when depression pinned me to my bed for a good month or two—maybe longer, I can't quite recall—after I lost a significant amount of money and felt like I'd lost all hope for moving forward... 😳 That was the only time it felt truly intense. Everything else I read about people experiencing, I feel like I've dealt with too, just much more mildly. Those shifts in mood—one day feeling totally high on life, then a few days later sliding into a mild depression and total lethargy—it doesn't bother me too much. The hardest part is just finding the motivation to do anything. A doctor would probably have prescribed me something back then (especially during that depressive episode), but I'm no expert. I personally believe you have to live through and experience depression to get past it—not that I'm saying medication isn't necessary for everyone, because I get that many people need it... but then again, some people just struggle regardless. I have a neighbor who gets incredibly agitated whenever his supply of Xanax starts running low 😳—honestly, I can be just as high-strung sometimes, but I'm not going to start popping pills for my nerves. I know things would improve if I just made some lifestyle changes—drinking less coffee, spending more time outdoors, maybe getting better sleep, and handling some other private matters.
I’ve had conversations too, though only internally, with my own intrusive thoughts. I ignored the voiced thoughts and the auditory hallucinations, but they kept coming regardless. You can't really explain it to him; those intrusive thoughts truly feel like they originate outside of yourself—as if some other entity or machine is broadcasting them. I would suggest Zyprexa; it helped me immensely. And he should check for negative symptoms, because hearing voices and having intrusive thoughts doesn't necessarily mean he has schizophrenia.
That total lack of willpower and zero energy—it’s brutal. I actually ended up dropping out of college, quit my job later on, and it even reached a point where I just couldn't bring myself to move or speak. It was awful. Fortunately, Zyprexa helped clear out those intrusive thoughts for me.
Hi everyone. I’ve been dealing with paranoid schizophrenia, along with some derealization and depersonalization issues. I’ve experienced just about everything—out-of-body experiences, visions, heard thoughts, an overactive imagination, altered states of consciousness, thought insertion, thought broadcasting, reading minds, and a total lack of emotion, speech, pleasure, and willpower. It all got to a point where I stopped functioning—couldn't move or even talk—so I had to be hospitalized twice. I was on Zyprexa and Prazosin. Those meds pretty much bring my intellect back to a functional level and keep me from slipping into psychotic episodes. They're fine, I guess. Anyway, I’m on a new medication now.
I'm particularly interested in the link between altered states of consciousness and schizophrenia—if anyone happens to know anything about that or could recommend a solid book, article, or blog that dives into it, I'd appreciate it. I can't seem to find anything worthwhile. 🤷
I suppose I should say something—though I’m not entirely sure what there is to say—about shamantrixx. driftingraven122 says: You probably heard about that guy Nagarjuna—he wasn't exactly a fan of meditation being framed as "self-improvement," I guess.
Nagarjuna driftingraven122 said:LIII. One should probably strive to remain disciplined in the pursuit of the highest morality—and wisdom, I suppose. And, I suppose, the absolute peak. Absorption—or the lack thereof—is a rather tricky subject, I suppose. One might assume it's straightforward, but there’s always a catch, isn't there?
Nagarjuna driftingraven122 said:LIV. Good grief— Body awareness—or mindfulness, if you prefer the trendy term—is an interesting concept, I guess. It’s essentially just paying attention to physical sensations without immediately judging them—though that part is easier said than done. I was essentially trained to be the—well, I suppose you could call it the standard. The only path to liberation—according to the Sugata, I suppose—is through his teachings.
I suspect this doesn't even have anything to do with psychology—I mean, maybe I'm wrong—but by using absorption, you essentially strip away fabrications like "the psyche" and can finally observe how things actually manifest.
@driftingraven122: Where exactly does this connection between Theravada 'achievements' and those other theories come from? I did a little digging online—nothing turned up. Or is this just your own theory, I guess?