Posts by Nancy Fowler61

Sandra Wilson68 said:...if our "Self" is truly asleep—meaning it isn't engaging in any physical or mental activity whatsoever—then we are in a state of deep sleep (dreamless sleep), and at that point, there is certainly no consciousness present.

But if consciousness just shuts off like a computer (as William Gonzalez3 suggests), and if—per your logic—there is absolutely no awareness left (given that the entire universe exists only within consciousness, so when consciousness is off, there is effectively "nothingness"), then what exactly "switches it back on" in the morning? Does the Self just reboot itself? How is that possible if it's turned off? Is it something from "outside" (like an alarm clock)? But how could an alarm clock even exist if nothing exists until it's perceived by consciousness?

I think I follow what you two are getting at. I tend to view it as though the "Self" is sleeping, but the "Self" is actually part of a larger entity that maintains control (sort of like that image mentioned in the original post).

Otton said:I find myself preferring the word SOUL over consciousness, simply because I can say my soul feels pain, or that it is wealthy or impoverished.
The richness of a soul isn't always defined by happiness; sometimes, it’s measured by sorrow and pain, right up to the very edge of what a person can endure.😉

😕 😕 😕

Jonathan Brown6 said:Well, I mean, he could just tell you that everything in this world—whether it’s alive or dead—is subject to stimuli. Basically, he's saying you phrased things a bit awkwardly.

He knows what you actually meant, but instead of helping clarify the confusion, he's just pulling your mistake out of context to point fingers.

😢 😠

But why bother?

🙂

I was referring to physical sensations, you know? Things the body actually feels and is conscious of. Did I get it right that time? 😢

@ hiddenviper9: If you already know what I meant, let's just get back to the actual topic. 😢 You guys know I struggle with finding the right words sometimes, so please, can we just move past it already? 🙂

"Quote:"

hiddenviper9 said:Nancy Fowler61, when you sit down to write a sentence, do you actually take a moment to reread it and truly think about what you’re saying?

Well. 😢

hiddenviper9 said:Look, you wrote: Can a body that has never received any kind of stimulation...
This is really hardly worth even discussing—because let's face it, there isn't a single living or dead thing out there that doesn't receive some kind of stimulus at any given moment.

A body without any senses? I mean, could someone really be deaf, blind, paralyzed, and also lacking a nose and a tongue? It just seems... well, it sounds absolutely miserable. 🙂 So... even from birth? Just being kept alive on an IV drip? Technically breathing, sure—but is that really living? Or is it just existing? 😕
It’s a body that possesses the potential for consciousness—since it has a brain, which is a prerequisite—but it simply can't actualize it because it lacks the senses to do so. I mean, aren't consciousness and the senses inherently linked?

hiddenviper9 said:Did the brain emerge first, only to have consciousness spark within it at some specific point in time? I guess it’s one of those questions that just keeps you up at night. Maybe the physical structure had to be fully laid out before the lights could actually turn on, or maybe there's something deeper going on that we haven't even begun to wrap our heads around yet. It's a tough one to pin down.

It’s pointless again, really, because you even agreed yourself that consciousness is ETERNAL.
Do you really think the brain is eternal, too? 😕

I don't necessarily believe that the brain is eternal. I also wouldn't go so far as to say that consciousness simply popped into existence because the brain appeared first. But that seems to be the prevailing view among materialists, doesn't it? 😕 I'm leaning toward that third option I mentioned earlier. Honestly, when I talk to my friends about this, I just tell them that neither they nor I can actually prove what we believe through any kind of scientific method.

mistyfox812 said:I'm not exactly teaching philosophy here, just addressing what's in the title. 👋

Huh? I honestly thought you were some kind of philosopher or psychologist, but it turns out you're actually a physicist.
😕 You monster. 😢

"Quote:"

William Gonzalez3 said:Would you not?

No. 😬

"Quote:"

William Gonzalez3 said:It doesn't really matter.

Yeah. Look, I’m sorry to say this, but you really blew it. 🙂

William Gonzalez3 said:First, you’re going to have to teach me some philosophy, because my professor absolutely tore me apart in class.

😢 I guess I should probably share this little philosophical nugget I came across earlier... maybe it'll spark something for you all. $38I guess I should probably start by saying that I might be overthinking this, but maybe there's more to it than meets the eye. I mean, things aren't always as straightforward as they seem at first glance, right? I suppose we could look at it from another angle, though I'm not entirely sure if that would change much. It’s just a thought.

delija said:That's exactly why Consciousness is INFINITY—it existed long before the cosmos was even a thought!
I guess that Consciousness wasn't quite reaching the level of today's universal Awareness—you know, the kind that manifests throughout the entire cosmos—but rather, it was hitting the value of the Law of total logic.
I suppose whenever something shifted within the Infinity nature of things, it always happened according to the Law of total logic.

I hope I was being clear enough this time? 🙂

I think I finally get it this time. 😢 If I understood that correctly—and that's just my take on things—then we’re actually on the same page here. I never even suggested that there was ever a state of nothingness to begin with. 😕

mistyfox812 said:Nancy Fowler61, I suppose you didn't get a little mixed up with the units, did you? 😉

No, I wasn't even allowed to touch the computer because of her. 👎
🤣

mistyfox812 said:I’d probably give her a call by now, but I’m twice her age. Plus one more year on top of that.
I might actually be teaching her at school, so it probably wouldn't be appropriate.

You aren't even teaching me that in school. I won't even touch Philosophy until my senior year. Man. 😢

William Gonzalez3 said:That would be illegal under our current laws.

Not even a chance! 😲 😢

🤣

Pandora10 said:Why are you crying, poor thing... I mean, can they even shut off your electricity or something? 🙂

I truly hope they can. Can't you smell something burning? 😢

mistyfox812 said:I'm just curious—when exactly did I write something that you wouldn't be able to comprehend?

You have a point there. It’s something that really would be impossible to write. My apologies. 😢

mistyfox812 said:Not enough (1), and you should probably give Paar/Schips a better read. 🙂

Oh no! I've already heard that one today. 🙂

afriend said:I've said many times before that consciousness must be integrated into scientific research.

It never even occurred to me that science could actually explain consciousness.
Actually, it never crossed my mind that it could ever be explained at all.

afriend said:There is an endless series of indicators (and strong ones at that) suggesting that consciousness is not of physiological origin, nor is it exclusively tied to this so-called material body.

Like what?
Honestly, I suspect that consciousness (the kind we possess) is linked to the physical body. I think I started a thread once about the senses and knowledge/consciousness. Could a body that has never received any stimuli or possessed senses be conscious? I don't think so, because consciousness relies on experience, memory, and knowledge, which we gather through our senses and store in the brain. The brain is material. It seems unlikely a person could be conscious without a brain.
But then again, I don't believe consciousness itself is physical. Did the brain evolve first, leading to consciousness emerging at a certain moment, or was the brain projected into consciousness from a specific "moment," or perhaps the Universal Consciousness projected the brain into existence, where consciousness later emerged at a particular point (that's my take, anyway)? It's all unprovable.

Since nobody on the other subforums around here gives me the time of day, I'm retreating back to where I started. At least you guys actually respond, even if you do end up tearing my arguments apart every single time. 😢
Please don't be mad at me :fearful face covering hands: because this is about consciousness again. 😢



Grey, where it says 'nothing'—just imagine 😲, absolutely NOTHING! I didn't bother cutting that part out, so I just left it. It simply shows that outside of consciousness, there isn't anything else.
'Consciousness' refers to yours, mine, or anyone's consciousness (billions of fragments) plugged into the 'Main' (Consciousness).
The 'projection of consciousness' (dark grey) is what the 'Main' created so that those fragments would have something to float in 😢 (the purpose of projection is to stimulate the senses; I suppose projection is everything we see, hear, and smell).

A simpler example. Imagine an electrical circuit where n appliances are connected, and electricity represents consciousness. You have blenders, computers, and light bulbs, where the blender might represent, I don't know, a dog, the computer represents a human, and the light bulb represents a puppy (since human consciousness is more complex than a puppy's).
Therefore, when a dog dies, the blender is disconnected from the circuit, but the circuit remains closed and the electricity continues to flow through the computers and light bulbs (after all, consciousness is higher quality than those cheap Christmas lights from Walmart where the whole strand dies if just one bulb goes out 🙄 ). The current will still flow even when there are no appliances, but it's almost as if it won't. 😢 And it's so sad. 🙂

...
Now I'm just waiting for Sandra Wilson68, the skeptics, the nobodies, and the rest of the crew to dig holes for me with stuff I probably won't even be able to wrap my head around.

Oh, you poor thing! 🙂

Rihanna said:By about 4:30 AM, I was already breaking down from the pain. I jokingly told them to just bring me some shears and a hacksaw, but after an hour and a half of struggling, I ended up just cutting it myself.

My god, the relief was incredible. 😎 I called 911, and the guy tells me they clearly botched the placement. 😠 :2up:

Sorry, but I actually burst out laughing at this. 🤣

Whatever it was, it finally settled back into place. It cooled down (it wasn't even hot to begin with 😢) and I'm doing okay, though my upper left back muscles are incredibly tense. A massage and some topical gel should fix it. 🙏

So, here’s how it went down: I woke up yesterday around 10:00 AM, really hoping the day would turn out better than Friday did. I was brushing my teeth when I felt all stiff, so I tried to stretch.
CRACK!!
Just this wonderful "CRACK!!", like when you crush an eggshell! Right then, I realized my left shoulder and the back of my neck were hurting. It wasn't a massive amount of pain at first, so it didn't even cross my mind to head to the ER.

A few hours later, I'm sitting at my computer, and some hair falls into my eyes. I usually just jerk my head to move it, but when suddenly 😲 PAIN!!!, I honestly thought I was going to pass out; I actually saw stars for a second.

It was awful. From that moment on, my mind started spiraling toward the worst-case scenarios, 😢 like maybe I cracked a vertebra and might end up paralyzed, or even worse, 😱 that I'd have to wear one of those plastic neck braces. 😱 😱 (Like, you snap your spine like a pretzel)

Usually, Napster just downloads a song for me if I search for it aggressively, or my phone starts working again if I give it a good smack against something. What does that have to do with this, you ask? --> Well, there were moments where I felt this incredibly intense urge to just bash my right hand against my left shoulder blade, hoping to pop whatever was out back into place. I didn't do it—maybe because it seemed too risky, or maybe just because I couldn't reach it. 🙂

Anyway, I went to lie down, and I don't know exactly what I did, but I heard an identical CRACK!! and I froze up from the chill, and then I realized the pain was gone.
EUPHORIA!! SEROTONIN!! THE LITTLE THINGS IN LIFE!!

The pain isn't there anymore (well, not that intense 😢), except for the muscle in my left shoulder where the cramp used to be.

My question for you all is: what actually happens when a disc slips, or when a vertebra cracks, or when something near the shoulder blade gets dislocated? 😕

relativness said:What is it actually like when you know a vast amount about philosophy and the fundamental nature of existence? I am genuinely curious how you all feel as individuals, especially those of you who have been immersed in philosophical study for years now. Have you actually found what you were searching for? What is your mindset like, and how does a person truly feel once they possess such deep knowledge? How do you process things? And how do you even function in "normal," everyday society among people who don't think in these terms? Do you end up seeing the world through a completely different lens? 😁

Since I haven't mastered much yet, I can't help but wonder if my future philosophical pursuits will end up weighing heavily on me. I am just really interested to know what it feels like to know so much—to understand every complex thought that seems so convoluted to others (like my own) because you already have the explanation ready.

:

I feel fine this way. Even though I worry that I might stay stuck at the same level I was at when I was 16 😱 I honestly don't regret where things stand right now.
Having certain knowledge allows you to filter out some of the more foolish or meaningless nonsense. And honestly, that helps. 👍

restlessmarlin6 said:What kind of person actually feels this constant need to criticize everything?

It’s honestly exhausting trying to talk to them because you feel like you’re constantly being judged against some impossible standard.
They always act like they have the perfect answer for everything.

How do you even deal with people like that?

Geez... 🙄

I mean, seriously... 🙂 🙄 I think you're really overthinking this whole situation, me let me tell you what you should do; next time just say it to my face, okay? 😳

🙄

VelmaX said:Why does waiting for something totally ordinary sometimes require such an immense amount of strength?🙄

Excuse me, but is this about that specific kind of uncertainty where things could go either way—good or bad—with a 50/50 chance?
If that's the case, I guess we're talking about a fear of the Unknown, which is then softened by nada, the idea that everything will eventually turn out okay, 😕 which ultimately results in what we call Uncertainty?
I would appreciate an answer to this. 😢

Arthur Barnes said:I suppose we really should verify that through an experiment. 😛

Well, why don't you go ahead and do that then? 🤣

Arthur Barnes said:I personally think everyone is just born with this inherent fear of the unknown—you know, like dark monsters coming to kill you—so those people would probably be scared regardless.

😢 If something is unknown and you feel afraid, I guess that just means you haven't encountered it yet and you're simply being cautious (fear vs. caution). It’s a different thing entirely to be terrified of dark monsters that kill; if you actually come face-to-face with a killer monster, you might just freeze up in pure terror, and that panic would likely stop you from even trying to escape. I suspect that's what they call "fear conditioning," if I understood that correctly.

Arthur Barnes said:From what I understand, horror movies featuring witches or those invisible, shadowy monsters are designed to target your inner child (meaning a part of your psyche, not an actual child), which is why they trigger fear. No matter how much you try to stay sheltered from nature or protected from the world, an attack like that will always leave you feeling spooked, constantly looking over your shoulder in the dark, and all that.*
* in most instances

(Theoretically speaking,) would this apply to someone who was raised to adulthood in a completely different way than people are today—someone who was never told a single word about witches, shadow monsters, or any such nonsense, but instead grew up understanding concrete things like logic and science? Or would a person like that fall into a tiny minority of cases?

Arthur Barnes said:I don't really get the point of this thread. Are we supposed to be commenting on how you aren't as afraid anymore? Honestly, I think most people would lose their minds over something like that.

As far as I'm concerned, 🙂

Neeeee. 😢
This is what the topic is actually about. 😳 hollowtrucker77, 😢 sorry. 😢 🙂

hollowtrucker77 said:Nancy Fowler61, what are you actually trying to say here?

Well, this, I suppose.

hollowtrucker77 said:I think people watch horror movies for fun, for an adrenaline rush, to overcome their own fears...

Yes, and? Where am I losing you? [[Overcoming their own fears? How exactly?]]

hollowtrucker77 said:I don't get it, are you claiming you don't have a single fear because you've become depersonalized?
"A little" seems hard to believe when reading your posts and reactions.
What are you actually afraid of?

Oh no! 😲 hollowtrucker77 has figured me out! This is going to ruin my reputation, oh what will I do, what will I do now?! 🙂 [[Actually, I am afraid of Truly Everything, but I already mentioned earlier that we don't discuss phobias here. 👋]]

mistyfox812 said:There’s also this thing called fear of fear itself. So, sometimes it actually helps to just get genuinely terrified once, just to realize it isn't actually that bad. 🙂

😢 I suppose I could try to respond to that, but I don't think there's much point in me doing so.

Jonathan Johnson67 said:Fear triggers an adrenaline rush, which actually provides a sense of "pleasure" for some people—that's exactly why they enjoy watching horror movies.

God damn George, burn them all. 😢>

Just ignore the previous post; it was late at night. 😢

Here is what I actually meant to say:

Nancy Fowler61 said:Fear acts as a mechanism to dodge embarrassment; its sole purpose is self-preservation [[there I go again with the self-preservation topic]], so I view it as being synonymous with a high degree of caution and find it quite useful.

That’s why I can't stand those cheap tricks that exploit fear just to manufacture some kind of *artificial* horror or dread in people.

That's all.