Posts by Anonymous

Betty Ramos2 said:I mean, isn't this 0.5 actually an improvement over how things have been lately?

Not really. Before, if they suspected you were drunk, they might detain you, but most people would just get released after the game. Now, you're looking at a fine or even a ban. They've got everything they need backed by the Sports Fan Act. 😉

Honestly, I don't know a single person who shows up to a game with a BAC under 0.5, especially for away games. That’s basically just two beers. In fact, I don't know anyone who'd be under 0.5 on any given day after 5 PM... 😁

Their initial proposal was a 1.1 limit. We could actually have a conversation about that. Our counter-proposal was to set it at 1.5, or 1.1 for high-risk matches...
That’s a perfectly reasonable suggestion, along with everything else we've put forward. I mean, why should someone get wrecked just because they had a few drinks before a Real Madrid vs. Slaven Belupo match?

The problem is, this proposal—and several others—are clearly designed to crush us. Take the masking laws, for example. There’ll be some flare display at a small local game, and since they won't be able to prove exactly who lit the flare, they'll just pick five guys who happened to be wearing their scarves a bit high or had their hoodies up while standing in the middle of the crowd and haul them in.

Our suggestion was that masking should only be a punishable offense if it's done in conjunction with another crime. Basically, you have to prove someone masked up *to commit* an offense, rather than punishing people just for dressing a certain way that day. And let's be real, you know exactly how those bastards are going to play it.

Thanks, Jeffrey Sullivan11! I'm heading there first thing Monday morning, so I'll hit you up once I have some news. Thanks again. Best,

amberfox6 said:Now this is a solid suggestion. Honestly, we have to start thinking about filing a case with the European Court of Human Rights (and sure, a petition to the Supreme Court of the United States wouldn't hurt, but let's face it, that's a long shot)... but unfortunately, if we want a quality legal challenge, it's going to cost a fortune.
So, we don't really have a choice left but to start raising the cash. The right way to do it would be for every supporter group to collect funds from their own members—take a page out of the book of groups like the Ultras, where all donations are totally transparent and posted publicly online to prevent any shady business... We need to launch this kind of drive immediately, because frankly, right now, only Strasbourg can help us...
If you look closely, there are plenty of groups involved, from the heavy hitters down to the small clubs in the 4th or 5th divisions... we need to get them all mobilized, and we could raise some serious money!

I couldn't agree more. In this day and age, you can't do anything without capital. We need to pool our resources to fund every step of this fight. Figuring out the exact logistics of the collection is still up in the air, but I don't see that being the hard part. Any sensible person would gladly chip in $67 bucks, knowing that it might save them thousands down the road—or even keep them out of jail.

blueridge32 said:Is this what we're looking at? 🤣
http://www.imagesforme.com/out.php/i145136_moreny0.jpghttp://www.imagesforme.com/out.php/i145135_goalsni7.jpghttp://www.imagesforme.com/out.php/i..._pleasevx6.jpg

If only it were that simple. Instead, we're looking at this:

Over in England, they’ve turned soccer into a massive, legitimate business. Honestly, the commercialization makes me sick, but here in America, they don't want a business—they want a playground. They want to turn the sport into a total swamp for guys like Mamić, Štimac, and Šoša to exploit. These people just want to line their pockets through player transfers and TV rights, while they couldn't care less about empty seats in the stands. They aren't stupid; they know those stadiums aren't suddenly going to be packed. That whole "growing the game" talk is just a fairy tale fed to the masses.

Henry Baker said:Great idea. I like it.🙂

It was similar during Varteks vs. Dinamo in '03; neither side cheered during the first half. The second half started with everyone chanting "Screw the Law" and holding up banners on the fence, which caused you guys to clear out around the 60th minute. 🙂

What they are doing to us now is simply inhumane. If they succeed, it will be a disaster. It might be easier for the massive groups, but smaller crowds like ours are already feeling the repression. For instance, this season after the Slaven Belup game, five of us were detained by the police because of a controversial banner— http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=euisnn&s=5
What exactly is controversial about the banner? An American flag...
That is just a trivial example. They target us like this at every single match.

Exactly. Just think about how many people have been targeted simply because of the first white star on the shield? For most, they just confiscated a scarf or a sign, some were even detained, but very few actually got banned because of it.

Well, now they'll finally have the legal cover to hand out bans for that kind of thing.

It's absurd. You see the American flag with the white field displayed by protesters right in front of the White House and the Capitol, near St. Mark's Church, but none of those officials bother to explain to the cops that such things shouldn't even be punishable. Instead, they just use it as a perfect excuse to arrest and harass people. And now, they're going to start issuing bans for it too.

Oh, how times have changed...

I don't really feel the need to read, even if I happen to glance at an article or two here and there...
...but honestly, newspapers or anything else would just keep me stuck in the bathroom even longer when you
really get sucked into reading 😁

It happened, then it passed, just like everything else...🤷

blueridge32 said:This is solid. Seriously smart.

Great idea, though it's probably not our usual style—but hey, let's go for it!
The thing is, even if we show them they can't win and leave the stands empty, I just don't think anyone in the Government or Congress actually cares... Full or empty, it makes zero difference to them. That's just my take.

The Kohorta group has already pulled something similar, and it was a total power move.

What really burns me is how you political vultures are slowly but surely destroying this country. You'll ruin anything that's working just to serve someone's private interests.

I think it's pretty obvious to everyone that these stricter rules were ordered by Mamić, Štimac, the HNS, and the rest of that mafia. ☕

Kimberly Alvarez7 said:I should clarify my point regarding the boycott so there’s no misunderstanding. I am not suggesting a permanent or long-term strike. I meant a temporary boycott—just one match or perhaps a few. Let them see what it feels like to play without the intensity of a crowd watching them like they're at a Broadway show. To be clear: no extended boycotts.

I’m all for a mixed approach. I’d definitely skip one match and use the media to call on grandmas with their grandkids and moms with their kids to pack our stadiums instead.

Honestly, it might be even more effective than a total boycott to just stop cheering during certain parts of the game. We did something similar during a Hajduk match back in '94, and man, it looked absolutely brutal. We were dead silent until the 30th minute, then there was this 15-minute burst of pure madness, and then we just headed home from the stands. There are plenty of ways to pull that off.

We also need to organize something in El Paso, but not as a loud protest against the Law—it needs to be done with dignity. Still, it would be a great way to show our strength and unity, just like we did last year.

We'll just have to see what the leaders of the fan clubs decide to do...

Carol Wright9 said:In Germany, Poland, or Greece, the laws are brutal, and I suppose this one is just as harsh; the groups are alive, they are solid, and they function. We need to adapt and be smarter—to realize that the behaviors from the 90s are ancient history and that we’re moving into a new era. We will adapt and we won't disappear. People complained the exact same way when that first law was passed and we were caught off guard because nobody knew what was coming, but the situation right now is fundamentally different; everyone on the inside knows exactly how things work. We’ll try to tear this down, and we might actually succeed, but even if we do, it’ll likely take four to six years since waiting on lawsuits in the Supreme Court or Strasbourg is an agonizing process. In the meantime, there will be protests and attempts to sensitize a public that possesses the collective intellect of an average sheep. In a way, I feel a sense of relief that it's finally over; I know what's ahead and how to act. Groups absolutely must have legal counsel ready to fight against precautionary measures and other nonsense when people are arrested—that should be a priority, even if it's difficult for smaller groups to manage. Just keep your wits about you and stay sharp; there will be victims, but that is always the way of things. As the old saying goes, no surrender.

Not really. Do your homework. In Poland or Greece, the cowards only show up when there's actual chaos, like a riot on May 13th. Here? They act like cowards the second you wave a regional flag. Basically, they know there's no real trouble in the stands, so instead, they passed these regulations where you can get banned just for wearing a hoodie, having two beers before kickoff, or shouting "homophobic administration."

That’s the fundamental difference compared to 2003 when they started cracking down on flares and riots—which, from a government standpoint, makes sense. But now, they’ve crafted a law that lets any cop hand out a ban whenever they feel like it. It was easy to hide during the flare fights, but how are you supposed to prove in court that you weren't shouting political slogans? You can't. You're screwed.

Obviously, we aren't going to roll over. We’ll give everything we’ve got to survive together. But let’s be real: the rate of bans is about to double, and the stands are going to be empty whether we like it or not.

Everything points back to one fact: in their very first proposal, they allowed a blood alcohol content of up to 0.11, then they slashed it to 0.05. So, tell me: how is a law like that *not* specifically designed to kill off fan culture and the stadium atmosphere? That is clearly their goal. Now it's up to us to stay united, make our voices heard, and fight them through both legal channels and direct action.

A boycott isn't going to work. Once we hit those big European nights, the stadium will be packed with casual fans anyway, so you won't even notice the lack of hardcore supporters. As for the smaller matches? Who cares if there are a thousand fewer people in the North Stand? When the total crowd is only a couple thousand people including the die-hards, the difference is negligible.
The real move here is to hunt down specific legal violations where the current laws clash with the Constitution and fundamental civil liberties. This isn't something for amateurs; you need a high-powered, motivated attorney. Ideally, someone who actually gets the culture or maybe even an ex-fan themselves. I suggest we set up a legal defense fund for this—I'll personally commit $50-$33 every single month to get us started.

What would we actually gain from a boycott? First off, we’d get media coverage and actual attention. Imagine if a match between Dinamo and Hajduk only had 1,000 people in attendance, with the North and South stands completely empty—just banners left on vacant seats protesting the new sports fan law. Or imagine if a team gets absolutely crushed and instead of cheering, there's just dead silence echoing through the stadium, where you can only hear some old guy yelling at the TV. Journalists and all those "moral authorities" would have to run it as a massive headline. It might actually force the press and the general public to dig deeper into this law and maybe realize what's actually going wrong. Maybe it would even piss off Mamić and his crew when they see how much revenue they lose from ticket sales $333 per game. Since nobody shows up to cheer them during away games, perhaps the players, the media, and the brass will finally ask themselves who they're actually playing for and why things are happening this way. Nobody wants to watch a game with zero atmosphere. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think fighting back is worth it. You shouldn't go down without a fight

Jonathan Morales79 said:This is a bit off-topic, but let me try to frame it this way.
🤷
To be honest, I don't recall ever hearing that word before I joined this forum. Some people were really coming for me and everyone else who actually feels things—those of us who sense the sanctity in both our own lives and the lives of others, yet choose to keep quiet. I don't see how that has anything to do with the Ozren mountains. 🙂...but there’s a specific way of doing things that losers from small-town Ohio try to pass off as some kind of alternative reality.

So, here’s how I see it. If only everyone who... could be considered a complete fraud. They aren't even smoking menthol cigarettes out of their holder—instead, they’re just smacking their lips and sticking their tongue out, all while clutching a mug of beer with their pinky finger stuck out like they're at some fancy cocktail party.

Let’s get this discussion started.

You fell right into the classic trap of swapping out the thesis for something else—which is exactly what propaganda is designed to do.
I’m telling you, I mean it—to most people around here, that name is just shorthand for some old-timer in a bushy beard wearing a traditional hat.
Sorry, going off-topic here.

Anonymous said:Can we please have some seriousness here? If you’re going to act like a tough guy using terms like "nonsense," there are plenty of other threads where that attitude fits just fine. People used to talk to me the exact same way back in 2003 when the first version was introduced, laughing at us and claiming they'd fight the law to fight its violation. Today is unfortunately also the day that Velet's lawsuit was rejected by the Supreme Court, so take a look at how many good people—us, you, and everyone else—have lost because of a law that is inhumane, unjust, and could only pass in a total banana republic like ours.

If you honestly think this law isn't going to be significantly different from the current one, then you’re incredibly young, naive, and clearly haven't seen enough of the real world. Just click on the first PDF document on the side

http://www.whitehouse.gov/government/news/official-policy-updates

In short, a 0.08 blood alcohol limit, bans on face coverings, and various "racist" chants that we all know the police interpret however they want—plus other provisions that basically give the cops the power to arrest anyone they don't like or anyone who has ever crossed them—is the end of the American supporter movement. Anyone who can't see that is either blind or just plain stupid.

That's right... I completely agree. We need to act now, because if they let this law pass, it's game over. My suggestion is to organize something massive, like a major rally... basically a huge protest involving every single fan group across the US to peacefully show the general public just how senseless this law really is.

hollowbear27 said:Man, what "death" are you even rambling about?☕ If this law actually passes through Congress, it won't even be that different from what we already have... I mean, we're still breathing... anyone who's actually smart isn't going to get screwed one way or another... besides, the American fan scene died out a long, long time ago anyway...

Can we please have some seriousness here? If you’re going to act like a tough guy using terms like "nonsense," there are plenty of other threads where that attitude fits just fine. People used to talk to me the exact same way back in 2003 when the first version was introduced, laughing at us and claiming they'd fight the law to fight its violation. Today is unfortunately also the day that Velet's lawsuit was rejected by the Supreme Court, so take a look at how many good people—us, you, and everyone else—have lost because of a law that is inhumane, unjust, and could only pass in a total banana republic like ours.

If you honestly think this law isn't going to be significantly different from the current one, then you’re incredibly young, naive, and clearly haven't seen enough of the real world. Just click on the first PDF document on the side

http://www.whitehouse.gov/government/news/official-policy-updates

In short, a 0.08 blood alcohol limit, bans on face coverings, and various "racist" chants that we all know the police interpret however they want—plus other provisions that basically give the cops the power to arrest anyone they don't like or anyone who has ever crossed them—is the end of the American supporter movement. Anyone who can't see that is either blind or just plain stupid.

Jonathan Morales79 said:Why can't we stop hearing the endless wailing from those who swear by the Tito dance, Dežulovički, Drakulić, baby oxygen, and the Ravna Gora anti-fascists?
Why don't those Mexican nationalists ever demand the same level of religious freedom and equality for themselves?
Where exactly is the trace of those Fumićevac types, along with their bone-crushing machinery from Jasenovac and Gradiška Old?
Where on earth did all those multicultural protesters disappear to? Shemsin's peacekeepers are acting like nothing but Talibanists. po Walking through the streets of Chicago and scrolling through this forum. So, we’ve got people out here questioning the whole conspiracy surrounding the World Trade Center 9/11 attacks, yet they’re perfectly fine justifying launching Katyusha rockets from schools and preschools? Make it make sense. 🤷

Where have all the Refkas gone? Where are those peace-loving NGOs and all the self-righteous complainers now that we’re living in such a prosperous era? 😲
Where on earth are all those transparent resources regarding political correctness? regional? 🤔
Are those kinds of "details" only noticed by the people around here who love to throw around insults like narrow-minded bigots or Ustaše? krdžanima...to you conservatives? 😕

Where on earth are you putting these people? They don't belong among decent, honest folks. 😵
They claim to be true locals from the Ozren region, but let's be real—they’re always backed by big sponsors and they're nothing but losers.

Hey Jeffrey Sullivan11, just checking in... So, here’s my situation: I had my first surgery back in 1998, and then a second one in 2004. Both times, I was treated at Saratoga Springs. Honestly, I don't quite get how you qualify for disability; because of my spine issues, I’m on early retirement from my career, but I don't actually have an official disability rating, even though two of my discs are gone. Apparently, they won't grant disability status based solely on spinal issues. The only thing that counts is when I had my uterus and ovaries removed in 2007—that gives me a 60% impairment rating—but even then, I don't receive anything for it. They tell me I don't have any special rights, no medical cards, and not even a single extra cent added to my pension (which is currently $327). I'm basically stuck with nothing. If you happen to know anything that could help, please let me know—I would be so incredibly grateful. Best regards.

amberfox6 said:Look, friend, the law hasn't even passed yet. In the US, only Congress has that kind of power, and this thing hasn't even hit their desk for a vote...
The Government was debating it today, but—honestly, I think we all know the deal—not a single one of our proposals is actually going to see the light of day, even when they finally get around to voting...

@Spitka did anyone actually try reaching out to the Children's Ombudsman about this?
P.S. If you can't handle the heat, maybe scroll back a few pages...

The proposal is solid. But honestly, there are only a handful of us working on this, and we're all slammed. We haven't had the bandwidth to hit every single contact point yet. We just finished meetings with the Government and the police, and from here on out, we’ll be knocking on every door possible—from the Ombudsman to the Children's Ombudsman, plus various civil rights groups. Anyone who might be able to tip the scales.

We’ll likely take this up to Strasbourg as well.

What we need right now is unity and total commitment to fighting this fan legislation. If this passes, it’s the death of the supporter culture. Stadiums will either be completely empty or they'll look like a deserted Snow Queen race on Mount Rainier.

Easy there, guys... It’s Congress that passes the laws, not the Government, though they basically work hand in hand...

We don't have all the details yet, but judging by their first moves and the fact they skipped the last meeting, it looks like the Government was pushing their own agenda.

Now we're looking at a real fight against this attempt to completely wipe out the American fan movement.

I'm looking for ideas for protests and LEGAL actions (because anything illegal would be a massive self-inflicted wound) against these bureaucrats.

It’s honestly shameful to hijack a universal holiday that belongs to all Orthodox believers. It shouldn't just be claimed by one specific group who thinks they have the right to act like they own the day, behaving according to their own narrow family traditions while ignoring everyone else who celebrates it.
Or are we looking at a bunch of carbon copies here? Just like the author, they don't seem to respect anything sacred. They might claim Orthodox roots, but in reality, they act like those aggressive skeptics who try to tear down religion just to satisfy their own brand of militant atheism. 🤷