Posts by placidranger

slywolf45 said:🙂
Is there any sludge underneath them?🙄

Just blood and slime.

fadedbison17 said:In that case, relying on God or some external savior is just self-delusion. It's an illusion that keeps people thinking they have way more control over their lives than they actually do.

Going back to your scenario—let's say instead of rats, we're talking about people swimming in the ocean (a pool would be way too small anyway).

Most people know—or at least realize—that the ocean isn't infinite and that land exists somewhere. If someone were out there for a long time, they'd be thinking constantly. Either like, "just hold on a bit longer, help is right around the corner," or "I'm thirsty, I'm alone, I'm gonna die."

No matter what they're thinking, salvation (an island, a boat, a plane, whatever) isn't going to magically appear just because they thought about it.
The actual result of their mindset might be whether they swim faster and last longer because they stayed positive, or if they just give up on day one and float there waiting to be eaten by sharks... 🙂

Once you separate thought from reality and accept that humans have limited control over their lives, the conclusion is pretty clear. 😉
A rational person—someone who accepts those limits—is going to live based on knowledge and logic, focusing on what they can actually influence. Like, "I can swim a bit more, I've still got energy, maybe there's land past the next wave..." They know there are things totally out of their hands (like sharks, death, illness, etc.).
But a believer—someone who accepts facts without proof—doesn't have a clear line between where they end and the world begins. They think they have more control over the universe than they do. Because of that, when they lose control, they try to force a result (believing in divine help, praying for rescue). Like, "if I'm good, God will love me, God will reward me, I need a boat to save me..." Whatever happens to that person, it would have happened regardless of their prayers—so there's no actual advantage.

A sense of agency—actually feeling like you're at the wheel—is pretty much the bedrock of satisfaction. People who feel helpless are miserable; it’s that simple. There’s a mountain of research out there on the "locus of control" and how tightly it’s tethered to happiness and general life satisfaction. The question is: can you actually replicate that feeling without just lying to yourself?

Let’s circle back to your example—but let's swap out the rats for people, and instead of a pool, they're swimming in the ocean. A pool would be way too small for that kind of scale anyway.

Most people—the vast majority, anyway—understand that the ocean isn't infinite. They know there’s land somewhere out there. If you were stuck out in the middle of the Atlantic for any significant stretch of time, your mind would eventually settle on one of two tracks. It’s either "hang in there, salvation is just around the bend" or "I’m thirsty, I’m alone, and I’m going to die." Nothing else really matters.

Whatever he’s spinning in his head—it won't conjure up some miracle escape—be it an island, a boat, or a plane. Thinking your way out of a corner doesn't work like that. It just doesn't.
The fallout from his logic leaves you with two grim possibilities—did he push further and swim harder for more days simply because he kept a positive mindset? Or did he just give up after day one, content to drift aimlessly and wait for the seagulls to pick him clean? 🙂

If there’s truly no land in sight—no passing cargo ships or Coast Guard cutters—then nobody wins. Everyone goes down together. It won't matter if you were a saint or a sinner; the ocean doesn't care about your theology. But if some help shows up on day four or five? The ones who didn't give up are the ones who make it. That survival isn't just luck—it's the direct result of that stubborn faith, that gut feeling that God is going to pull you through.
We don't need to resort to extremes—it’s just not worth the burnout. It might take longer, sure—building a business from the ground up or chasing some other long-term goal isn't exactly a sprint—but there's more value in that slow burn than in crashing and burning early.

Once I finally separated thought from reality—and acknowledged that we really have very little control over our own lives—I reached a conclusion. 😉
A rational man accepts his limitations. He understands that there are certain constants—death, disease, the inevitable decline of the body—that simply aren't up for negotiation. Instead of fighting the impossible, he focuses his energy where it actually matters. He uses logic and hard-earned knowledge to improve his quality of life and extend it where he can, focusing strictly on the variables he can actually control. It’s about knowing when to push and when to just accept the hand you've been dealt.

The issue is that we often hit a wall where our knowledge runs dry—so we just accept certain limitations as absolute truths. We get used to the idea that things like death or terminal illness are inevitable, and we stop fighting. We settle for the status quo. But maybe if we kept pushing—even if those actions seemed irrational to the experts—we could actually overcome the disease. Even in modern medicine, you still hear those strange stories about "spontaneous remissions," where a patient’s body somehow defeats an illness on its own through pure biology. To this day, nobody can truly explain how it happens.

A believer—someone who accepts facts without needing proof—lacks a clear sense of where their influence ends and reality begins. They carry this misplaced sense that they have more control over the world than they actually do. Because of that delusion, the moment things spiral out of their hands, they try to force a solution through sheer will—whether that’s through blind faith or prayer. Occasionally, their prayers might actually align with what happens next, but let's be honest: it isn't because of the praying. It's just coincidence.

So, what’s your take on that whole "Law of Attraction" thing?
It feels to me like sometimes precisely because we’ve been praying to hit a certain milestone—say, looking for a bit of help—we start noticing things around us that actually pave the way toward that goal.
Prayer—when you factor in visualization and repetition—basically recalibrates your perceptual filters. You start spotting opportunities that were invisible to you before, giving you the opening to actually grab them. In that sense, hitting the target becomes a subtle byproduct of the prayer itself.

jadepuma6 said:It’s gotta be paid ☕

Either pay up—or prepare to get screwed 🤷

darkpuma71 said:Thanks—you really saved my skin here.

By the way, if you're looking for this kind of technical deep dive, there's an IT forum downstairs specifically for that.

darkpuma71 said:Anyone have a lead on software to recover deleted photos?

This one works fine 👍
http://undelete-plus.com/

mellowangler19 said:I have a boyfriend... and when he was fingering me... (just the other day...) ...he pushed his fingers in so hard I actually saw stars. When we were done... his hands were covered in blood... (I'm not a virgin...) ...so what does that mean? He didn't break anything because I've been there before. And the next day after that, it wasn't exactly painful, but more like... where he scratched me... I don't know... but I can feel it... Help... 🤷

Just send him to get a manicure or something.

fadedbison17 said:One thing though—we're talking about an advantage here, right? But compared to what?
I'm looking at the difference between a rational guy (someone who checks in with themselves first—sticking to what they know is true) versus a believer (someone who accepts certain facts as truth without any actual proof).

It kind of feels like you're implying that anyone looking at their future through a positive lens *has* to be a believer...

Look, my angle here is to identify the specific advantages gained from a believer's mindset—and then see if we can replicate those exact results without invoking any supernatural intervention.

I’m drawing a distinction between a rational person (someone who cross-references everything against their own internal sense of truth) and a believer (someone who accepts certain facts as true despite a lack of empirical evidence).

Here's a case in point: there was a study involving rats swimming in murky water—meaning they couldn't see through it (I don't have the link handy, but I'll dig it up if necessary).
They split them into two groups. The first group swam in a pool that had a small island just beneath the surface where they could rest. The second group had no such refuge. Whenever a rat got exhausted and started to sink, the researchers would pull it out.
After a while—once everyone had rested, eaten, and slept—they put them back in the pool. This time, there was no island. Now, here is the interesting part: the rats from the first group kept swimming for twice as long as the ones from the second group. The theory is that because they expected to find that island, they possessed a sort of "faith" that kept them going.

So, it stands to reason that belief in God—or some form of external assistance—provides certain situational advantages that others simply don't have.

Nancy Adams79 said:That's what Praying Mantis said. 🙂
I don't know, some people just don't need any of that to find happiness.
Plus, it really comes to the forefront during the final days of life. It's much easier to believe that your existence was just one part of a massive... whole. For us atheists, we see it as the end, and you have to prepare for that, come to terms with it, and deal with all that—which is hard enough as it is. 🤷

By that logic, every atheist would struggle to face death, which simply isn't the case. I read somewhere that people who feel they've "fulfilled their purpose"—meaning they actually did what they set out to do—don't fear death, regardless of whether they believe in an afterlife.

Edward Flores4 said:Just for a change of pace, I’ve been thinking about this—and honestly, it’s a bit of a heavy one. When you start placing yourself beneath some higher power, you’re essentially setting yourself up on a fast track to devaluing your own worth. It’s like when you see those rigid corporate hierarchies at places like Goldman Sachs or big tech giants—once that ladder is established, people just default to "command and control" mode. They basically switch off their brains and go into this mindless autopilot, where every single decision they make is filtered through nothing but their own self-interest. It’s incredibly short-sighted, too. I mean, let’s be real—it is notoriously difficult to find any sense of genuine happiness when you’re stuck in a toxic, hyper-competitive environment like that. But here's the kicker: once you label that entire situation as "God's will," suddenly making a logical conclusion becomes almost impossible. People just stop questioning things, even when the math doesn't add up.

It’s a classic pattern, really—people get rejected by one social circle and end up hunting for a new one that isn't quite as judgmental. They aren't necessarily looking for truth; they're just looking for a place where the entry fee is simply agreeing with the group's core ideology. It’s almost like joining a gated community where the only requirement for residency is nodding along to everything the HOA says. And here’s the funny thing about these echo chambers: the more radical the ideology becomes, the less critical thinking actually happens among the followers. It all turns into this feedback loop of constant affirmation. There’s no pushback, no "hey, maybe we should look at this differently?"—just total consensus. The real kicker, though, is the gap between performance and conviction. Saying you believe something is one thing—it's easy to play the part to fit in—but actually holding that belief in your gut is an entirely different animal. Of course, there’s that middle ground where people convince themselves they truly believe it just to survive socially, but honestly? In this context, that distinction doesn't even matter. At the end of the day, the result is exactly the same.

Fine, but if we're aiming for that same psychological impact—some kind of amor fati—it’s unlikely we’ll get there just by "being grateful to ourselves."
Quincy:

People rejected by one circle will hunt for a less critical one, accepting whatever ideology is required just to secure a sense of belonging. Generally, the more radical the ideology, the less scrutiny exists among its followers. Sadly, claiming to believe something and actually believing it are two entirely different things. There are also those who merely convince themselves they believe—but that's beside the point here.

The fear of being an outcast is definitely a factor, I'll give you that. But there's something else at play. Some claim they found a new purpose through faith—a reason to wake up and keep grinding. It would be interesting to see if we could replicate that sense of purpose without dragging religion into it.

Edward Flores4 said:Good luck with that. If you want to find a true replacement, it has to have "something" in it—some kind of mechanism that takes the weight of responsibility for all human actions, allowing people to act on their whims while still having the option for an occasional confession. That way, they can go out and mess things up for others, then turn around and ask God for forgiveness. Honestly, even finding one single mechanism like that feels like a stretch, but hey, that's just my two cents... take it or leave it.

Irony isn't some tangible "ingredient" you can point to... it’s all about perspective, or more specifically, how he sees things in his own head.

It’s a shame nobody can live two parallel lives at once—that would be the only way to figure out if things actually *are* easier for them because of their faith, or if it's just an illusion.

I'm talking about specific mechanisms that actually improve quality of life—like giving thanks to a higher power. I don't see an equivalent for an atheist. What then? Giving thanks to yourself?

It's a shame nobody can live two parallel lives to figure out if things would truly be easier without faith.

What about converts?
What drives them to cling so tightly to their newfound faith? You see it with addicts in rehab centers finding "Jesus," or even just regular folks who suddenly embrace religion after a car wreck or some other trauma.

hiddenhawk3 said:That’s probably just a self-fulfilling prophecy.
"You pray for something and believe it," so you work harder to make it happen. 😍That works fine while things are going your way and your confidence is high, but if you don't believe in God or anything bigger than yourself, you might fail. Then you lose faith in yourself, your ego takes a hit, and you stop trying because you've subconsciously convinced yourself it's impossible.

Exactly. That's the main point.

hiddenhawk3 said:Blessed are the poor in spirit—theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Maybe look into how Christianity actually started; you might find answers to most of your questions there.😍

I guess everyone believes in something at some point—either God or themselves🙂. You probably can't even survive in this world without some kind of faith to hold onto.

Yeah. It's the same story.
Faith is just a fancy word for prediction. Something happens a couple of times—you see the pattern—and then we decide to "believe" it’s going to happen again. It's all just a guess based on repetition.

Nancy Adams79 said:You hit the nail on the head.
I used to think it was just subconscious, but more and more religious people tell me exactly that—they believe simply because it's easier, and they don't even bother looking at how messy things are from a rational perspective.
I'm an extreme optimist, so I guess I don't need that crutch. 🙂🙂

I'm an optimist too, though I swapped faith in God for faith in myself. It feels like, at the core, there's just this ancient, wise God acting as a construct we use to communicate with our own subconscious.
It's easy to stay religious when a prayer actually works once or twice.

wiredmaker18 said:I wouldn't call them benefits. It’s more like taking the path of least resistance and tricking yourself into believing there's some almighty force watching over everything from out of nowhere. It basically provides a built-in consolation prize for our mortality, killing off one of humanity's oldest terrors: the fear of death. If you believe hard enough that Heaven is waiting for you—provided you follow the exact, rigid rules laid out by your belief system—everything is settled. There's no room for error, and even if you mess up, there's always confession. Just classic religious demagoguery... they essentially invented a reset button for every mistake you make. Seriously. And get this: if you spent your whole life doing unspeakable things but "sincerely" repent on your deathbed (whatever that even means in this context), it's all wiped clean. Like an eraser. You die in white instead of black. I guess faith is the perfect sanctuary for people who lack the guts or the confidence to actually question the system, let alone shake its foundations and flip the whole thing on its head...
Regarding the idea that faith is everywhere, it’s pretty simple: humans are fundamentally the same regardless of where they are, and we struggle with the same existential questions. So, it stands to reason that our ways of explaining the inexplicable would be similar. Blindly following a doctrine is the easy way out. On the other hand, questioning why we believe what we do—and understanding the cause-and-effect links between belief and cultural, social, psychological, or political shifts—is what keeps your mind sharp and aware of how society actually functions. There's also the matter of perspective. Analyzing how beliefs manipulate the masses gives you the necessary distance to view events within the broader context of geopolitics and current affairs. Without that detachment, it's nearly impossible to stay unbiased and think for yourself. There’s a neat analogy in fractal geometry where a tiny fragment of rock shares the same structure as the entire mountain. It’s easy to conclude that the dynamics playing out among three friends grabbing coffee are fundamentally the same as those governing a city, a nation, or humanity itself. They're all driven by people, and people are driven by the same basic motives, just scaled up and made much more complex. It’s not always that clean-cut, but that's the core of it...

I don't see any harm in eliminating that fear—it's just that I haven't seen a single religion actually succeed at it for the masses.

Regarding the idea that faith is universal—it’s simple enough. Human beings are fundamentally the same regardless of where they are on the map, plagued by the same existential dilemmas. It stands to reason that our attempts to explain the unexplainable would follow similar patterns.

Agreed.

Edward Flores4 said:Look, I’m not denying that faith in Bog can offer some serious psychological perks to someone who truly believes—it really can. But just because it provides a mental cushion doesn't mean it offers any other kind of tangible benefit. At best, it just makes those incredibly heavy, soul-crushing situations a little easier to stomach.

A perfect example comes to mind—there was this guy in the States who was convicted of murder (I think he actually got life) and sat there for years. Once DNA testing finally became a standard scientific tool, his lawyers pushed for a new forensic analysis, knowing deep down he was innocent. Since they had preserved the samples, it turned out he really hadn't done it at all. After spending decades behind bars for a crime he didn't commit, he was finally set free. When he walked out, he sat down for a newspaper interview and basically said, "I thank Bog, I knew He wouldn't let this happen..." It’s pretty ironic, isn't it? Science is what actually pulled him out of that cell, yet he gives all the credit to Bog. One scientist actually commented on the whole thing, saying that if he were in that man's shoes, he probably would have ended it all rather than waiting around for science to eventually save him. I suppose that specific brand of faith is exactly what gave him the strength to endure such a nightmare.

In his case, science essentially stepped in to back up Bog, so maybe his faith paid off in a way. But for so many others, that faith never yields a result, even when they spend their entire lives believing.

By the way, there’s this fantastic convention that’s been running for two years now, and you can actually watch the full program online—it's packed with lectures from some really eminent scientists. The whole event focuses on the role of faith within society. There are some genuinely diverse and fascinating perspectives in there, and honestly, some of the scientists are more narrow-minded than the most hardcore believers. I highly recommend checking out both years:

year one
http://thesciencenetwork.org/BeyondBelief/watch/

year two
http://thesciencenetwork.org/BeyondBelief2/watch/

If someone thinks they're happy, then they are. Happiness is a subjective category, and to me, it’s pretty vital.
What I'm actually trying to do is find a substitute for the mechanisms that religion provides. Roba mentioned optimism as one component of that.

A perfect example would be a guy in the States who was convicted of murder—I think it was even life without parole—and years later, once science had developed DNA profiling, his lawyers requested new testing knowing he was innocent. Since the samples were preserved, it turned out he really wasn't guilty, and they freed him after he'd spent decades behind bars for something he didn't do. When he got out, he gave an interview to the press and said, "I thank God, I knew He wouldn't allow this..." It's ironic. Science sets him free, yet he gives the credit to God. One scientist commented on it, saying he'd rather kill himself than wait for science to bail him out. Only that specific brand of faith can force a man to endure something like that.

I don't see the irony. In his mind, God is the one who facilitated everything—including scientific progress.

In his case, science stepped in to assist God. Maybe for him, the belief paid off, but for many others, it never does, despite believing their entire lives.

Maybe it just makes life easier for them.

fadedbison17 said:Believers have this weird edge where they pretend they’ve got an answer for basically everything. While an atheist usually just shrugs and says "I don't know"—which actually leaves room to learn stuff—believers don't feel the need to do that... Not sure I'd call that a real advantage...

To keep that illusion going—that he’s actually in control—a believer basically has to... well, you know how it goes... knows... An atheist—since they’re lacking that "extra" insight you get from being a believer—just ends up making stuff up to fill the gaps... finding whatever facts or justifications they can pull out of thin air. It all just turns into excuses, like: "Oh, a believer..." knows... What happens after you kick the bucket—I mean, according to Him... knows... How to live... basically, a believer stays connected to... Wait, what was that? You're just dropping one word? I'm lost... anyway, what's up? Just sheer force—which basically means he can just ignore reality if he feels like it... etc.

I feel like needing faith is pretty much the same as needing philosophy—it’s just that human drive to find a solid system of morals and values to live by while navigating society...
Why does faith stay so bulletproof against the test of time? Honestly—it’s because people who believe just... don't let themselves think too hard about it. It's way easier to just grab a pre-packaged solution, even if it’s thousands of years old and totally out of touch with how things actually work today. Instead of leveling up their lives to fit the modern world, they end up dragging their entire lifestyle backward just to make sure it fits the mold of their religion... turns out that's a lot less work.

What are the perks of being a believer compared to an atheist? A more developed imagination—though I wouldn't exactly call that a "perk" when it comes to actually improving your quality of life...

Sure, some things lack logic or practical utility, but take prayer, for instance...

People who pray to a deity—genuinely believing help is coming—tend to carry themselves with more self-assurance. That boost gives them a better shot at whatever they're aiming for. The word confidence actually stems from having "faith" (correct me if I'm wrong on that etymology). They're less likely to throw in the towel when things get rough.
Plus, there's a certain merit to the habit of giving thanks for what you have; it forces a focus on the positives.

I sometimes wonder why this concept of a creator—this all-powerful entity—remains so incredibly stubborn against the passage of time. It persists everywhere, despite massive cultural divides and the fact that ancient civilizations had virtually zero contact with one another.
The most obvious answer that keeps coming to mind is psychological utility. People who believe seem to experience certain mental benefits, which serves as their motivation to pass the idea down—or if you prefer, to spread the meme—to their children and anyone else unacquainted with it.
I’ll skip the whole "truth in numbers" argument—the notion that if enough people believe it, it must be true. First, it's logically flawed. Second, I’m an atheist. Third, whether something actually exists is irrelevant to my point; what matters is the practical advantage believers hold over atheists in their day-to-day lives.

In your view, what specific advantages does a belief system—say, Catholicism, Buddhism, or Islam—actually provide? Is life simply easier when you're a believer?

hollowtrucker77 said:placidranger, my bad—really sorry about that.
You're right, though. We really ought to be sending out notifications.
🙂

Total garbage.

Happy birthday via DM, 😉 😁

By the way—PŽK mods—it would be about time you guys started sending out notifications for bans.

Bradley Barnes90 said:Two weeks total—which means we've only got two days left.

Since you're already hanging around here, you could have given me a heads-up too.