Posts by steelmaker83

graniteharbor502 said:Are you thinking of 2010? Because in 2011, he absolutely crushed everyone.
Every driver on the grid goes through slumps where they struggle to score points. But what little Vettel is doing to Webber... I don't think anyone else out there could pull that off. Webber is an incredibly fast driver, especially over a single lap. I still remember when a mediocre Jaguar could actually put him near the front during qualifying.

I completely mixed up the years. I was thinking about 2010 and 2012. In both of those seasons, Webber was either better than or just as good as him by the halfway mark.

Larry Fox5 said:From a real observer's perspective? 🤦

Didn't he prove he was a top-tier driver back at Toro Rosso? Even a total amateur could see then that the kid is a born champion. It’s just those blind fools over at Ferrari waiting for him to rack up ten more titles before they finally offer him a contract on his way out to retirement.

He had flashes of brilliance, sure, but you can't measure actual quality based solely on moments like that. He isn't the only one who has shown occasional sparks while stuck in mediocre teams.

Let’s be clear: the guy is an out-of-this-world talent, maybe even the best in the world. But if I’m going to make that claim, he needs to prove himself under less than ideal conditions—specifically, outside of his home team and without having the best car on the grid.

But if he really is what he appears to be, so what? He'll leave Red Bull eventually. Actually, he doesn't even have to leave; there's a slim chance Red Bull will even remain this dominant next season.

My skepticism comes from the fact that even with a car like this Red Bull, he had massive gaps in performance and some pretty lackluster drives. And we aren't talking about isolated incidents; the first half of 2009 and the first half of 2011 combined essentially equal a full season of subpar driving... and that’s significant.

stormybadger8 said:To be honest, I wasn't even paying much attention to Alonso during that Abu Dhabi race. I was mostly just keeping an eye on what Vettel was up to. 😁So, primarily Hamilton, followed by Webber...

It looks like you're still fixated on nothing but Alonso.🙂 Of course, you're all overlooking the obvious... Bottas was only making his seventh career start.😳
Just look at that seventh race and how they had to deal with Alonso. It honestly doesn't matter who it was; any kid in that position would have reacted the exact same way if they were facing Hamilton, Vettel, or Kimi.😉...but then again, that goes for everyone else too.
On track, it looked more like a heavyweight duel between Alonso and Kimi than some rookie who just climbed into a car yesterday.
At the end of the day, Alonso didn't have nearly as much trouble dealing with Bottas as he did with Hamilton. I mean, let's be real—it was just Mercedes versus Williams. 😉
Trying to defend a position in that absolute junk pile of a car? Please. 🙏
And that’s without any nonsense, any contact, or any dirty, clumsy moves. 😉

Just imagine what they’d try to pull if you had Grosjean, Maldonado, or Sergio Pérez around today.

The guy definitely belongs in Formula 1, and he’s driving a significantly better car than that.🙂
It might sound a bit crazy right now, but I see him as a legitimate contender for wins and podium finishes in the seasons to come.
Not many drivers actually leave a lasting impression on me, but Valtteri Bottas is definitely one of them. 👍

Sometimes you read posts that genuinely make you wonder what people are thinking... but when I actually have to say something, here it is:

Look, I’ll be blunt: he should have been more proactive about securing his spot. Given how things usually go with rookies, he clearly underestimated just how aggressive this kid would be when defending his position. He had a career-defining opportunity right in front of him, and he failed to realize that someone this talented isn't going to just hand over their seat without a fight.

Under two—first lap, tires aren't up to temp yet. All you can expect is a complete disaster during braking.

Po three—the veterans know how this works. Given his reputation, he just waited to see how the kid was breathing before elegantly and safely picking him off at the end of the first lap. Losing a second or maybe a second and a half here is negligible compared to what could have happened if he’d tried to bully the kid at the second chicane, risking some insane defensive move that would've left the rest of the field in the dust.

Look, I’m clearly losing my mind here. I shouldn't even have to break this down for you, but since you’re being so incredibly persistent, fine. Here it is.

stormybadger8 said:Bottas... 😉

That first lap was pure fantasy, even if the guys at Ferrari refuse to admit they missed it...
But keeping Alonso behind him and defending that position twice? That was the highlight of the race for me.
Williams is a total junker compared to Ferrari, and a heavy one at that... The Magnificent almost caught him during nearly the entire first lap.

Give Bottas a better car so he can actually entertain us more often.😁

You really outdo yourself; I honestly don't know how you pull it off. Just know you've set the bar incredibly high this time. You can't afford to blow it now—you can't go back to saying Mark Webber is the better driver...

I am completely fed up with the performance on the supersoft tires. I have no clue what the tire allocation looks like for the upcoming races, but this is looking incredibly grim.

Furthermore, this suggests we’re going to run into massive headaches during qualifying sessions moving forward. Mercedes are leading the pack, Red Bull is right there too, which puts us at a maximum of fifth. Then you've got Lotus or some other third party jumping in, landing us in sixth or seventh, leaving us with a grueling climb through the field ahead of us.

There is simply no way to secure a championship like this.

Silverstone should be the circuit that plays more into Ferrari's hands and finally lays everything bare (assuming the weather stays warm): specifically, whether the tires were modified and if Red Bull can once again utilize their full downforce at peak efficiency without worrying about tire degradation.

Credit where credit is due to Sebastian Vettel, but I want to see him in a different car facing different challenges to establish a realistic perception of his actual talent. The kid is good, no doubt about it, but the symbiosis he has achieved with this car is incredible—which is ultimately the goal in Formula 1—but I want to see him when the situation isn't perfect.

Every great Formula 1 driver has gone through a period like this in their career; it's precisely then that they prove their worth to a true observer. Sebastian Vettel hasn't done it yet, but he's young, and he'll get there eventually.

Speaking of the rain, where did the famous STINGer disappear to?

Alonso was a disaster, and Ferrari was just as bad.

Nothing else to say. Given this erratic rhythm we've seen, I’m calling it now: expect a win in Canada.

Raymond Anderson4 said:I don't get it... looking at the slow-mo, he clearly turned the wheel right, but the tires didn't follow. How is that his fault? I have no clue.

He hit the brakes mid-corner, the car bottomed out, and both wheels locked up. It was driver error, though he got lucky that it was only two wheels locking instead of all four.

There’s no such thing as good cellulite.....

redheron12 said:What's the actual truth here? It's that Nico Hulkenberg hasn't won a title in nearly a decade—and despite his stints with top-tier teams since then, nothing has come his way. That seems to be the only reality worth discussing, right?

The fact that you can't hold a conversation without getting defensive says everything about you—and having an "idol," lol, an actual idol—well, that speaks for itself.

Who's insulting you? Honestly, this constant glorification of Fernando Alonso is almost as exhausting as listening to Jason Campbell70... it’s like I should hand you an award for being the loudest Nico Hulkenberg fan out there. You should be proud of that, not offended.

As for how to debate... I don't really care... how am I supposed to have a rational discussion in a thread that's 110% fueled by pure fandom?

If you're so desperate for an idol, you could have at least picked someone relevant...
Ron Dennis🤣

Ron is a legend.🙂

Lol, just your typical McLaren/Lewis Hamilton fan comment. It’s honestly tragicomic considering Lewis had a car that was just as good, if not better, during that same stretch—he wasn't even a title contender through the first half of the season, yet somehow remains the fastest guy on the grid.

redheron12 said:What's the actual truth here? It's that Nico Hulkenberg hasn't won a title in nearly a decade—and despite his stints with top-tier teams since then, nothing has come his way. That seems to be the only reality worth discussing, right?

The fact that you can't hold a conversation without getting defensive says everything about you—and having an "idol," lol, an actual idol—well, that speaks for itself.

Who's insulting you? Honestly, this constant glorification of Fernando Alonso is almost as exhausting as listening to Jason Campbell70... it’s like I should hand you an award for being the loudest Nico Hulkenberg fan out there. You should be proud of that, not offended.

As for how to debate... I don't really care... how am I supposed to have a rational discussion in a thread that's 110% fueled by pure fandom?

If you're so desperate for an idol, you could have at least picked someone relevant...
Ron Dennis🤣

Ron is a legend.🙂

I have never called anyone on this forum an idiot, regardless of how close some people get to meeting that definition. Subtle banter is fine; that bit about the medal was actually decent.

redheron12 said:What's the actual truth here? It's that Nico Hulkenberg hasn't won a title in nearly a decade—and despite his stints with top-tier teams since then, nothing has come his way. That seems to be the only reality worth discussing, right?

The fact that you can't hold a conversation without getting defensive says everything about you—and having an "idol," lol, an actual idol—well, that speaks for itself.

Who's insulting you? Honestly, this constant glorification of Fernando Alonso is almost as exhausting as listening to Jason Campbell70... it’s like I should hand you an award for being the loudest Nico Hulkenberg fan out there. You should be proud of that, not offended.

As for how to debate... I don't really care... how am I supposed to have a rational discussion in a thread that's 110% fueled by pure fandom?

If you're so desperate for an idol, you could have at least picked someone relevant...
Ron Dennis🤣

Ron is a legend.🙂

And that pretty much sums it up.

stormybadger8 said:In my book, Vettel did an amazing job pulling off that championship fight toward the end of 2009.🤷
He actually messed up at the start of that season, not the end... but by then, it was simply too late. I don't recall him screwing anything up during the second half of the year.🤷

Basically, if you look at his career, every single season except 2011 and 2013, he started off poorly. He’d always have some massive screw-up in the first few races that left him digging himself out of a points hole for the rest of the year.😉
At the end of the day, he has very few wins in the first half of the season, if you ignore 2011.😉
It's like he's still missing that initial learning curve from 2007 since he didn't drive then...🤣

Regarding what was said about Hamilton—looking strictly at the stats, you could argue that.
But interestingly, Hamilton was still Vettel's biggest threat in 2012, even after he'd basically dropped out of any realistic title contention.
Take the 2012 US Grand Prix, for instance. I remember it for that intense chase for the win between Vettel and Hamilton... Honestly, that felt like a genuine, pure battle between two drivers, more than anything else.

That’s what I’m getting at. Last season, unlike the driver who didn't have the setup but ended up fighting anyway, Lewis Hamilton had every single prerequisite for a title run and an equal fight for the championship. In the end, though, it all boiled down to that scrap and a Pyrrhic victory in Texas—which was totally irrelevant for Lewis Hamilton, but meant significantly more for Sebastian Vettel, as it was a defeat that cost him 7 points, even if it didn't ultimately decide the title.

And since you brought it up, isn't it actually tragic how many talented drivers are on the grid, yet we've only seen a genuine, direct battle between Fernando Alonso, Lewis Hamilton, Sebastian Vettel, and Kimi Raikkonen maybe five or six times over the last three seasons?

In about 60 races... it's a disaster.

stormybadger8 said:Of course he fights for them. Every real driver is fighting for the title every single season.☕
I don't watch Formula 1 with that old "it's the taking part that counts" attitude... For me, the only thing that matters in Formula 1 is winning and taking the trophy.☕

And who else was fighting for the title in 2009 if not Vettel?🙄
I mean, being the runner-up in 2009—finishing only 9 points behind at the end—doesn't exactly scream "he wasn't in the fight."😵

Right, so Alonso was "fighting" in 2011... a season where he finished 4th and was 135 points behind at the end. That's his version of fighting for the title. But Vettel in 2009? He wasn't really fighting, or maybe he eventually just started.🙄

Seriously, what a brilliant take.🤦

By "eventually," I didn't mean he wasn't fighting, because he was—he was the only real threat.
What I meant was the broader context of that entire season—the "illegal" stuff regarding the Brawn dominance, and the fact that Sebastian Vettel was still relatively green and prone to rookie mistakes back then.

So, I misspoke—of course he was fighting for the title in 2009, he just wasn't fully mature yet. That's what I meant.

Honestly, I think today's Sebastian Vettel would have beaten the 2009 version of Jenson Button in that Brawn car.

And I agree that all drivers fight for the title; I never said they didn't. But when you look back at things retrospectively, you analyze them based on the final outcome. It's like how Lewis Hamilton had every advantage to become champion last season, yet in the end, he wasn't even a factor in the fight—so he was fighting, but he wasn't really fighting. I hope that's clear.

stormybadger8 said:Look at the numbers since Sebastian Vettel entered Formula 1:
Sebastian Vettel has 3
Lewis Hamilton has 1
Jenson Button has 1
Kimi Raikkonen has 1
☕

Besides that, what about freaking Fernando Alonso in 2011? 😕
And who claims Alonso was the only one keeping pace with Vettel in 2010, or even 2012... let alone 2011? 🤦
Go watch an actual race instead of just talking shit about the Ferrari car.🙄

Sebastian Vettel hasn't been fighting for titles since he joined F1; he's been fighting for them over the last three seasons and maybe 2009.

Take 2011, for example. Even if the McLaren was arguably the best car on the grid that year (just like the following season), it was specifically Fernando Alonso in 2011 who provided such intense—albeit futile—resistance.

The fact that Button finished further down the standings than Alonso that year, despite being in what might have been the best car on the grid, says everything you need to know about Button... and McLaren.

redheron12 said:I’d tell you that you’re being an idiot, but I wouldn't want to get a penalty for it.🤣

My idol in Formula 1 is Ron Dennis. So much for moral high grounds and childhood illusions.🤣

Tell that to yourself, then you won't get penalized. And if I'm an idiot just because I'm stating facts—fine, so be it.

The fact that you can't hold a discussion without resorting to insults says everything about you. And having an "idol"—lol, an idol—says even more.

Since you clearly need someone to worship, you could have at least picked a relevant character...
ron dennis 🤣

Samuel Ruiz4 said:It’s starting to feel like some kind of vanity project, just two different philosophies crashing into each other... on one side you've got the Vettel fanatics and on the other it's all about Alonso, and suddenly it's like no other drivers even exist on the grid.
The reality is that Alonso can squeeze a ton of performance out of a subpar car, just like he did last season. And yeah, even if I think Vettel being a three-time champ gives him the edge despite having the better car over the last three years, man... it gets exhausting reading the same old arguments race after race.

Why is that strange? These two are the only ones fighting for titles over the last three years, so naturally, everyone else is sidelined. It’s a good thing a third driver eventually steps up to shake things up...

Jason Campbell70 said:Exactly.

Considering the mistakes Ferrari makes that cost him wins and championships—and the absolute junk they give him to drive—he’s being incredibly patient.
Not a single sign of frustration, anger, or dissatisfaction with the crew... nothing. Not even a hint of negativity.

If we’re being principled—which we should be—Alonso was quietly sulking by the end of last season. He wasn't being destructive, but he was brooding enough for someone like the Marquis to take a swing at him.

redheron12 said:I am not trolling about Alonso....Trolling is intentionally being obtuse just to derail a discussion, which isn't my goal at all. It's simply that I cannot wrap my head around a person who has disgraced every single team he's ever driven for through dishonest acts, cheating, lies, rigging, blackmail, and betrayal.......given how much that individual repulses me, I find myself being quite discrete and measured when discussing him—certainly more composed than those who, if they could, would be staring at his backside 👍

By the way... there is no identity crisis at McLaren; we might discuss a crisis in results, but certainly not an identity crisis. And if you knew anything about the McLaren mentality—or their fans—you wouldn't dream of calling a driver a "prince." Everyone knows who the true prince is in the United Kingdom 😁

😲

So, you're disgusted by a guy because he dared to shake up the establishment? No. Cheating, betrayals, blackmail, and lying are completely foreign to McLaren—a team that was actually caught red-handed, and not just with a finger in the cookie jar, but waist-deep in it.

But sure, you're all about moral integrity. I get it. You probably spend your free time rescuing whales.

If all of this turns your stomach, you have fundamentally misunderstood the sport you chose to watch. To break your childhood illusion: yes, people cheat, lie, steal, deceive, and stab each other in the back—with knives, or rather sabers—on a daily basis. It is a core component of the circus.

And yet, you find it repulsive when a driver uses those exact same methods to rattle the big fish.

You have seriously missed the point of this sport.

Look, even a "good kid" like Vettel is a little brat. That's just how it is. There is no mercy for the naive.

shadowhawk24 said:http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page=results&gp=896

There's a whole lot of data here. If you're looking for pit stop details—specifically which lap they came in and what tires were used—just select "head to head" and pick your drivers. You'll find everything you need at the bottom of the page. 😉

Thanks. At least this McLaren is finally good for something.

Amanda Kelly said:Those technical glitches really cost Fernando Alonso dearly.
Finishing 8th yesterday was actually a solid result when you consider he had to deal with two unplanned pit stops and a car that felt broken for basically the whole race.

But now he’s sitting 20 points behind Kimi Räikkönen and 30 back from Sebastian Vettel. That's a massive gap to close with only four races left on the calendar.

That's a lot for 4 races, but not much for 15.

Anyone got a decent chart showing the pit stop windows and tire degradation?