Posts by shadowgardener12

Heh... Iyengar isn't actually losing his cool with his students. It’s more for their own benefit. 😁 I haven't sat through all his videos, but I highly doubt he's actually hitting anyone. It's just that specific way of showing attention in Indian culture, where even a touch carries a completely different weight.
It’s not that aggressive, Western style of losing it—the kind of thing that looks shocking when viewed through a different cultural lens. I was once out in Rishikesh with Rudra (one of Iyengar's top senior instructors), and even he gets loud sometimes. "Watch your leg! Watch your leg! You're gonna fall! Why are you doing this!?" Honestly, Josh and I are always cracking up at his accent... but to an outsider, it might look like some drill sergeant barking orders. In reality, it's just funny. If you know the teacher, you can tell it's a totally different relationship... just different vibes.

Nice, that works for Swanson. But a five-day seminar is one thing... a five-day teacher training? You mean a training specifically just for instructors?

Regarding what you said about Ashtanga Vinyasa, I know the theory inside out from years of practice, but my actual experience tells a different story.

And earlier, those weren't speculations. You're speculating that an intellectual might find Patanjali’s approach easier... but try actually living by Patanjali’s instructions. First off, you wouldn't even manage 5% of Yama and Niyama because daily life constantly pulls you away. Yogis figured out long ago that controlling the body is easy, but... the mind, the consciousness... doing that mentally is incredibly difficult. Not just conscious thought, but the subconscious. That's what Patanjali talks about. Real things come after. After the physical. It's the same in Taoism, or Buddha's teachings—he was familiar with Samkhya, and maybe parts of "Hatha" Yoga too.

The whole point of Hatha Yoga is that the body can be forgotten... transcended. If you spend your entire life doing Ashtanga Vinyasa asanas, will you ever truly transcend the body? No. Like Swanson, you might end up strong and healthy, but beyond that, reaching Patanjali’s dharana (concentration) will be a struggle. Those states only happen when everything stops. The external and internal noise. The muscle work, the senses, the consciousness...
That's why Ashtanga Vinyasa only references Patanjali in name; it isn't actually connected to him.

Then there are the traps in Ashtanga Vinyasa. Most Americans try to force things through sheer effort, mimicking what they see advanced teachers doing—if they're even watching Indians. But the approach is different over there. Being a long-term vegetarian and being mindful of diet plays a huge role. Your muscle tone relaxes, and you become more flexible. Meanwhile, Americans are just straining. Tense in their psyche and attitude, always waiting for the next external stimulus.
In Yoga, people force the lotus pose or headstands. You can't do a headstand without core strength and arm strength, otherwise, all that weight goes straight to your cervical spine, which is the most sensitive part. Most women starting Ashtanga don't have developed enough core or arm muscles. The consequences are obvious.
Ashtanga Vinyasa uses a lot of advanced asanas that get forced. The knees take a massive hit; they're already under pressure in standard asanas, but in Ashtanga, it's worse because there are no breaks between movements. You won't feel it immediately, but after a few years... Iyengar realized this and slowed the asanas down completely. I know plenty of Ashtanga teachers, both Indian and American, who approach these exercises in a totally unhealthy way. Just forcing it, regardless of skeletal structure. Most Ashtanga Vinyasa moves should only be attempted once they can be done effortlessly on their own. Students don't notice the injuries at first because they release so much energy. But... people just push too hard.
Personally, I prefer a middle ground between Iyengar and Vinyasa. To me, it's the healthiest way to approach this athletic version of Hatha Yoga.

The Krishnamacharya link above isn't actually doing Vinyasa at all. It’s just a more physically demanding version of Hatha for practitioners—basically advanced Hatha Yoga, which any regular Hatha yogi does.

I’ve been doing comparative studies on the Yoga Sutras and other variations for about six years now. I won't sit here and claim, "everything is explained, so we’ll just introduce something ten centuries later..." If you're actually living by the principles of the Yoga Sutras, you barely need much Hatha Yoga at all. And that’s really the point of Hatha—restructuring the energetic field, clearing out blockages. Hatha was originally just a set of cleansing techniques. Later, asanas from various Upanishads were added, and then everything was further developed in the Hatha Yoga Pradipika.

Once those blockages are cleared (and they start on the mental plane first), there’s no longer a need for (that much) Hatha Yoga.
Patanjali takes a different route. He goes straight to the root, to the mental causes of those blockages. It’s the harder way. Direct.
That’s why Hatha exists—it’s the easier path. It works through the body, then the energy, and finally reaches the mental plane.

So, the Yoga Sutras and Patanjali had a completely different approach than Hatha. In Patanjali's Sutras, you don't even need Hatha Yoga as such. The emphasis there is more on an intellectual-psychological approach and its core principles. Principles that are incredibly hard to stick to. There's zero need to force Hatha Yoga into the Yoga Sutras; it's a closed system based on its own principles (linked to Samkhya). Sure, you can try to introduce whatever you want and argue that you need certain things to achieve certain results... but let's be clear, that’s not what Patanjali is talking about.

There are plenty of other Yoga variations that don't require Hatha either. Jnana Yoga, Laya Yoga, etc. You can combine them if you want, but it has nothing to do with those specific systems. Just like the Yoga Sutras have nothing to do with the Hatha Yoga Pradipika.

And there’s especially no need to introduce something like Ashtanga Vinyasa, which is essentially yoga in motion. The Yoga Sutras clearly state that yoga happens when everything settles—when all movement stops (in the mind). Ashtanga Vinyasa doesn't achieve that; instead, it creates new whirlwinds because it exhausts you physically like a sport, while simultaneously raising your energy through asanas, bandhas, and Ujjayi breathing.

Don't get me wrong. I've been practicing Ashtanga Vinyasa since '99. I started with a friend of Swenson's and studied under various teachers in Mysore. I still do it today. It's great for activating energy and staying fit—way better than a standard gym workout—but it has the least in common with what Hatha teaches. It only has as much connection to the Yoga Sutras as you choose to inject into it... but they remain the Yoga Sutras regardless. You could just as easily work them into an art class as you could into Ashtanga, assuming you even bother to include them.

So why is it all guys doing Yoga while women just... don't? Just look at Josh Jenput’s list. Is there even a single woman on there?

Ashtanga Yoga and Ashtanga Vinyasa Yoga are two totally different beasts.

Real Ashtanga Yoga comes from Patanjali’s Yoga Sutras. It’s a philosophical and psychological framework rooted in Samkhya.

Ashtanga Vinyasa Yoga only uses the name "Ashtanga" to claim a connection to Patanjali, but they don't actually practice his teachings.
They mostly just do moving Asanas, some Pranayama, and a few Bandhas... which is all basically Hatha Yoga. That "Ashtanga" in the title is just branding; it has nothing to do with Patanjali's work, and it just confuses people.
But since Patanjali is cited as one of the founding fathers—the first guy we actually know by name who defined the philosophical side of Yoga—every yogi in the States feels the need to reference him, whether they follow his teachings or not. His ideas are more or less baked into various types of yoga anyway.

What you do after an Ashtanga (Vinyasa) session is really just what athletes call "cooling down." It's a relaxation phase because you've already worked up a massive sweat.
I hate to break it to you, but it honestly has nothing to do with meditation :| 🙂,
Just my two cents, though.

The fact remains: there's no real link to Patanjali’s Yoga Sutras. He barely defines Pranayama—only once in a single Sutra—and he mentions Asana just once, describing it as a comfortable, steady position.
So even Hatha Yoga doesn't have a direct line to those Sutras, even if everyone tries to align themselves with them.

And Krishnamacharya didn't exactly "found" Ashtanga Vinyasa Yoga, because that wasn't what he was teaching. He taught both Iyengar and others, who practiced a completely different, strictly static style. Both of them had the same teacher. Krishnamacharya taught them a physical style common in Southern India, and then each student added their own personal flair.
The Vinyasa/flow elements in Ashtanga were added later by restless Westerners, like someone out of a Silicon Valley startup...
There. Now you know a bit more about the actual mechanics than your teachers probably told you. 🙂
The full truth about Ashtanga Vinyasa and a little bit on Iyengar Yoga. 🙂

Women practice Yoga, while men are Yogis.

Ashtanga Vinyasa is just athletic Yoga shaped by Westerners... probably carries the least authentic spirit of any style out there (not counting Bikram)

Yeah, thanks. nimblewalker58 already told me 😁

this American health site is actually great. who’s the writer behind this?

Hey! thanks.

😁
Of course not! But I will say it’s growing. It pops up in the woods where there's plenty of rich soil...
I think it was literally translated from Latin—bear herb—because bears supposedly eat it to help them digest after winter hibernation. Both the Celts and the ancient Romans valued it for its medicinal properties too.
You could make an amazing pesto out of it 🙏
Or a soup!

What’s that one "bear herb" that pops up in the spring and smells just like garlic? I know the Celtic and Roman tribes used it back in the day... I use it myself, but I can never seem to remember the American name for it...

Where did you even get this idea about correlation... why don't you kids ever use actual American slang instead of this weird stuff? Or are you just doing it because you want to look smart in front of everyone?

ruggedharbor95 said:Since I get insulted quite a bit, I sometimes find myself stumbling onto threads where I wouldn't normally chime in, just to read people calling me stupid, arrogant, or rude...
The number of people doing this keeps growing. It’s honestly draining. I really don't think I'm a bad person, let alone someone who deserves to be intentionally provoked or, even worse, belittled because of my age.😢
Too many people have a negative opinion of me, and I'm seeing zero positive ones on the horizon.

Give me a break. Most of these people don't even know you. Besides, most people on this forum are just here to feed their egos or vent their frustrations anyway. Age implies experience, sure, but experience is subjective—it doesn't automatically equal wisdom or self-acceptance.

I dig your perspective.

creative said:look how huge the moon is tonight...😲
...

fear, baby, fear! 😁

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The full moon this month is traditionally when things get real. It's the day
when people actually start applying all that theoretical stuff and
Philosophy they've been sitting on. There's a certain power gathered
from positive karma built up through the highs and lows of many lifetimes.
On a day like this, invoking the Deity within everyone through
Prayer and fire worship feels right. Since ancient times, humans
have taken everything they've witnessed and learned, then transformed it via
meditation into a steady stream of universal love,
endless service, and constant upward growth.
It's a day for pure joy, offered as a way to honor the beloved Guru.
He's the guide, pulsing from deep inside us. He's everywhere. The whole
universe is basically an image of Guru Svaroopa. You can sense the Guru
in Nature, providing the rain needed for a good harvest. The Supreme Guru,
visible in the world around us, also drops the biggest life lessons.
Philosophy—the importance of patience, being on time, and staying receptive—is
all just the Guru showing up.

If you actually bother to look, you can feel it. If not...
well, life is nothing more than a collection of passing moments.

Every single time I'm in Chicago! I hike up to the old hilltop lookout... man, there's just so much rock everywhere... then I just sit. It’s become a ritual.

hey katie, any word on if there's gonna be a trip hop show in San Francisco?

mainscream said:son, just bring that over to NYC😁

exactly... come on... get a job or something.

cosmicjackal33 said:I only caught Matt Blacko playing a solo DJ set.
He was great.

trip? 😁

Yeah, that KD remix of Massive 😁
I've got it on CD somewhere
but that's old school.
Coldcut are doing alright lately... really wondering what they'll bring to the stage on July 15th. If I'm in the city, I'll definitely try to catch them and hear it live

cosmicjackal33 said:How depressed do you actually have to be to find Massive soothing?

Hey Jimmy... speaking of Trip-hop... remember this: Waldeck - It Comes From You

It comes from you Austrian Safa from Harm...🙂

Not depression, just a stressful life...😁

Waldeck has a few more Age of Aquarius remixes besides Comes From You...