Posts by restlesssurfer97

neonfalcon16 said:But we should probably get together in the group. 🤔

Once the administration wraps up their session, they all just huddle up in the same room anyway. They're doing the whole two-meter distance thing and wearing masks, sure, but then they've got newspapers spread out right under their noses like it's no big deal.

ruggedjackal46 said:America is at the top of a chart that’s missing half the countries, including Sweden, which is who we’re even comparing ourselves to here.😕

No, I wasn't making any claims. You were the one insisting Sweden has way more capacity than America, and I just pointed out that the "famous" table—which I’ve mentioned so many times now I really should just Google it—actually shows that Sweden doesn't have particularly large hospital capacities at all. In fact, quite the opposite.

Look, please, just go ahead and Google it. You're nitpicking me for only including two charts, yet you're talking about this one specific table as if it’s some absolute, divine truth.🤣

Their approach might eventually result in a higher number of infections, but you're claiming that the high percentage of deaths among those infected is a direct result of their strategy. How does that work? Are they just letting people die?

Well, a higher number of infections inevitably leads to a higher number of deaths, for heaven's sake.😕

It doesn't lead to a higher *percentage*, which is what you've just manufactured out of thin air; it leads to a higher raw number.

🤦

Here is the actual breakdown for hospital beds:

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statis...tistics_-_beds

America has 350, while Sweden has 203 per 100,000 people.
And honestly, if they actually counted those makeshift spots over at the Arena, the numbers would be even wilder. ☕

brightpilot6 said:Honestly, I don't have a strong preference either way. It seems to me that the strategies most countries are adopting right now are likely the ones designed to inflict the least amount of long-term damage on both sides.

I’m genuinely struggling to wrap my head around how people think the "economy" would actually function over the next year or two in an alternate reality where Italy somehow adopts the Swedish model.

And then everyone else is worried about both too, it's just that some people don't think 'the way most countries are handling things right now is the path that causes the least amount of long-term damage to everyone involved.'

I honestly have no clue how the "economy" in an Italy that uses the Swedish model in some alternate universe would even function over the next year or two.

We’ll never actually know.
But we are definitely going to see who gets hit harder by the next wave, and we won't truly grasp all the fallout from the lockdowns and the whole Coronavirus situation for several years.

brightpilot6 said:So, I’m reading now that these tests in New York were conducted on people caught out while shopping at various stores. That probably doesn't constitute a truly representative sample, assuming that in this kind of situation, it isn't everyone hitting the shops equally, but rather mostly the younger and healthier crowd.

Widely available testing, masks being accessible to everyone, face shields for those stuck in close contact with others all day, and established patterns of cautious behavior—these three factors are the only real gamechangers we have before a vaccine or an effective treatment comes along, though it takes time to get everything in place. And one has to maintain order and control. To me, it seems so crystal clear and logical that I honestly can't imagine what the alternative would be for the vast majority of society.

And I'm still waiting to hear why it's 14% for he he ☕

My whole point was that we need concrete numbers instead of just guessing. If even a layman like me was writing a month ago about the need for mass antibody testing, I don't get why Krunoslav Capak doesn't just drop the nonsense and the plexiglass and order 50,000 more tests yesterday instead of just 1,000, which haven't even shown up yet.

Widely available tests, masks for everyone, face shields for those working in close contact all day, and established habits for being careful—those three things are the only real gamechangers before we get a vaccine or effective treatment, but you have to buy time to get there. Plus, you have to maintain order and control. To me, that's so crystal clear and logical that I really can't imagine what the alternative would be for the vast majority of society.

Exactly.
And the alternative is a lockdown, which we'll push through this time, only to be terrified of the next one.

No, look, I’ll admit I phrased that poorly, because the fact that Sweden has such a massive death rate among those who actually tested positive is just impossible to ignore.

If they were running an incredibly low number of tests, then sure, I could explain it that way, but this just feels off, you know? And honestly, it doesn't exactly make their healthcare system look great—not that I'm pointing fingers at them specifically—but I'm pretty certain if something like this happened here in the States, everyone would just blame it on our healthcare system being broken.

ruggedjackal46 said:We’re comparing America and Sweden. What good is a graph to me if it doesn't include Sweden? 😕

You were expecting a much bigger difference? Well, that's funny, considering you were just arguing that American healthcare has better capacity than the Swedish system. 😕

And why did they have 2,000 deaths instead of 50? Maybe it has something to do with how they handled the outbreak itself, rather than the actual capacity of the healthcare system? Honestly, restlesssurfer97, get real. 🤦

Maybe it’s down to different healthcare setups and staffing levels? On one chart, America is trailing behind, but on another, we're right at the top, and that's specifically regarding higher-level nurses and general staff. It's wild that you didn't pick up on how much that matters.

Were you expecting a massive gap? Well, that’s pretty funny considering you were insisting the American healthcare capacity was way bigger than Sweden's 😕

No, I never actually said that, you were the one claiming Sweden had way more capacity than America, and I just pointed out that that famous table—which I feel like I've mentioned so many times now that I should probably just Google it again—actually shows that Sweden doesn't really have huge hospital capacities, far from it.

So why did they lose 2,000 people instead of just 50? Maybe that’s more about how they handled the contagion rather than the actual capacity of the medical system? Come on, restlesssurfer97 🤦

Oh, really?

So what you're saying is their whole strategy was basically to just not worry about people getting sick and just let them die?

How do you manage to talk yourself into being wrong twice in under three hours?

Their approach might eventually lead to more infections as a side effect, sure, but you're trying to argue that the high death rate among those infected is a direct result of their policy. How does that work? Are they just letting people die?

Carol Lewis said:Wait, has he always been moving like that... that yellow guy? wtf!? I honestly thought it was just a still photo...

Honestly, I’m just rolling my eyes over here while ZZ writes about how much he cares about the economy just as much as he cares about people's lives. 😂

So, apparently some of the supposedly level-headed folks on this forum have started labeling everyone else as if they aren't just plugged directly into the headquarters' database, uploading their opinions straight from the source.

Maybe just spend a little less time staring at the plexiglass at 2 in the afternoon. Or honestly, maybe it’s time to shake up the crew a bit, just so we don't have to deal with such a bad influence hanging around.🤷

ruggedjackal46 said:You completely missed the point regarding the Arena; give it another shot.

Since you were so confident in claiming that Sweden has greater healthcare capacity than America for dealing with Coronavirus, it would be nice if you actually backed that up with something substantial.
Otherwise, it just sounds like another empty cliché. If you provide actual data and figures, I can actually accept it as a fact and use it in a debate tomorrow. But like this? It's useless. Honestly.

Fine:





Source: link

These numbers are from 2016, but I doubt they've shifted drastically in a way that favors America. It doesn't list salaries or the number of staff who left the country, but I think it's indicative enough.

You totally missed the part where most of these are nurses, and there’s actually another chart out there showing that nurses in America hover around nearly 500 per 100,000 people, but since Sweden isn't even on that particular graph, you obviously didn't include it. 🙂

It doesn't really matter though, because even if they have more medical staff, their capacity is lower, so I still don't see where the advantage is supposed to be. I was expecting a way bigger gap than this.

I mean, imagine if we had 2,000 deaths here while they only had 50; that would be the ultimate, permanent proof that their healthcare system is lightyears ahead of ours.

brightpilot6 said:Sure, if that's what keeps you up at night, you kids from the third world 🤣

It’s preventable, much like any other death caused by famine. No one in this world should have to die from hunger. The simple fact that people are dying just proves that most people couldn't care less about anything happening outside their own immediate surroundings. It's a grim reality.

I don't possess a crystal ball, but I find myself wondering what kind of impact your proposed solutions would actually have on the global economy. Not everyone possesses the same level of discipline, living standards, or access to healthcare as they do in Sweden.

If I were forced to speculate, we would likely see a massive loss of life in a very short window—and that's not even accounting for the long-term health complications for those who survive. The social fallout would be nothing short of extreme panic and a total breakdown of trust in a system that appeared to have done absolutely nothing. We might even trigger a deeper economic downward spiral. There is perhaps nothing more lethal to an economy than widespread fear and systemic distrust.

As it stands, there is at least some semblance of control, or perhaps just the illusion of it, providing a sense that we are all in this together and will emerge from it as one. That feels significantly better than some frantic, Wild West "every man for himself" scenario lacking any cohesive plan or organization.

Nah. It’s not written anywhere, honestly.

But since you clearly felt called out just now, it's pretty obvious you're more concerned with people's lives than actual economics, right? 🙂

ruggedjackal46 said:If you have a relatively low number of medical professionals, low wages, and a high migration rate, it shows you simply don't have enough qualified staff to actually care for patients. To me, that seems to be the crux of the issue here: having competent medical personnel who know how to handle various complex cases. You can cram 1,000 beds into an Arena overnight, sure, but you can't just magically inject 1,000 skilled doctors into the system by tomorrow morning.

And when our best doctors and nurses are heading off to Austria, Germany, or even Sweden, it speaks volumes. It doesn't just mean we're losing our top talent; it means there are very real, very logical reasons why they're leaving.

Why are you playing games with the bed counts at the Arena? We both know those numbers don't count.
Do you actually have any data showing that Swedes have more medical staff than Americans?
Of course you don't, you're just talking in circles.

The pay is better there, and yeah, some medical staff emigrated from America, but that’s really all you’re offering to support the claim that Sweden has a higher healthcare capacity for fighting Coronavirus than America.

On the flip side, America has a higher number of available beds per capita and more intensive care units. An ICU implies all the equipment and the staff included, if my logic isn't totally off, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. And I'm pretty sure the number of ventilators was higher too, but whatever...

Bottom line is, since you were so confident asserting that Sweden has greater healthcare capacities than America for tackling Coronavirus, it would be pretty fair to back that up with something real.
Otherwise, it just sounds like another empty cliché. Because if you actually backed it up with some hard data and figures, then I could actually accept it as a fact and maybe use it in a debate tomorrow, but like this? It's useless. Man.

ruggedjackal46 said:So, what, I’m supposed to go research whether Swedish doctors pull in higher salaries than American ones, or if medical professionals are fleeing the US at a faster rate than they are from Sweden? 😍

Just take it from the church, and there's your funding right there. ☕

That’s only an issue if you honestly believe that a paycheck is the single most important metric for measuring how much capacity a healthcare system actually has.

Because we’re talking about the actual capacity of the healthcare system here, right?

I’ve been pointing out the moves the USA is making, and honestly, I’ve been giving props to the strategies some Far East countries are using, plus the steps Germany is taking, and I even brought up how the Russians have jumped straight into massive testing and are absolutely sprinting ahead, making them the second most active globally right now.

I just call it like I see it when things look positive, and in the case of the USA, I wasn't saying their entire strategy is perfect, just a few specific moves that I think are actually pretty brilliant.

It isn't exactly rocket science to take a side if you actually put in the effort, but sure, anyone can just sit back and spit on everything, and hey, nobody’s stopping you from doing that, not even the headquarters.

brightpilot6 said:Some people here seem to spend their time criticizing anyone who doesn't blindly accept every single word coming out of the headquarters, yet on the flip side, they’ll unthinkingly swallow any nonsense the Americans throw our way or claim they intend to do ☕

😍

ruggedjackal46 said:You know, healthcare isn't just about having a bed to toss a patient into, is it? 🙂

Otherwise, Sweden could just order a few thousand beds from IKEA and call it a day. Problem solved, right? 😂

Maybe it would be more useful to look at the actual medical staff counts in different countries, what they’re getting paid on average, and how many of them are jumping ship to work abroad. That probably gives a much more realistic picture of actual healthcare capacity, don't you think?

You can basically order ICU units from Ikee, then just throw in some ventilators for good measure. Maybe they even have a "buy two ICU beds, get one ventilator free" deal running? If so, ship them over immediately.

SS fixed everything 🙏🙏🙏

Maybe it would actually be more useful to look at the number of medical staff in certain countries, what their average salary looks like, and how many healthcare workers have migrated to other nations. That probably gives a much more realistic picture of actual healthcare capacity.

Yeah, maybe if you spent a little more time actually studying the subject, you might end up with an argument that actually holds water.

Just a little nudge for those of you who prioritize living your life over obsessing over the economy. Look, I get it, we all know the drill and you probably already realized this, but... well, here it is, just a quick reminder.

U.N. warns economic downturn could kill hundreds of thousands of children in 2020

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKBN21Y2X7

So, apparently nearly 14 percent of the 3,000 people tested here in New York have antibodies for the Coronavirus, according to Governor Andrew Cuomo this Thursday.

These are just preliminary findings from a study where they randomly tested folks out at grocery stores, which Cuomo mentioned during his daily press briefing.

"Basically, it means these people were actually infected and then went on to develop antibodies," he explained.

The Governor suggested that these numbers might imply the mortality rate is actually lower than what everyone’s been assuming, because if you look at the actual infection count based on this, we're talking about 2.7 million people having been hit by it.

"If you take the current death toll, which is sitting at 15,500, that would put the fatality rate at about 0.5 percent," he said, though he was quick to point out that these are all just preliminary estimates. He also threw in a warning that the death count could "be higher" since the current tally doesn't account for anyone who might have passed away from Coronavirus at home.

hehe

Capak explained how clothes shopping is going to work: Trying things on is strictly off the table

I've been staring at these cans of tuna for three days straight, just debating whether or not to actually crack one open, because honestly, I’m terrified that if I eat them now, I'll be sick of tuna forever if Capak suddenly pops up out of nowhere.

So, about two weeks ago, they actually went ahead and set up this whole task force specifically to get a domestic mask production line up and running right here in the States 🙏🙏🙏

It feels like someone just gave you a massive yank, totally caught me off guard. Right on my 😂

wiredrider9 said:And check this out—turns out Americans have their own version of restlesssurfer9 too

What’s your take on this guy, you think he’s actually worth watching? Someone like him seems like 😂