1284 posts shown.
At the end of the day, Vettel got penalized, and that’s that. Period. Personally, I don't think these kinds of nonsensical penalties should even exist.
In my view, Vettel earned that win and he deserved to take it.
Whether Vettel was intentionally veering right to block or if Hamilton was deliberately trying to force an "I'm not going in there" situation is anyone's guess.
All I know for certain is that Vettel is now trailing by a massive 62 points, and had he actually secured the victory, that gap would be significantly smaller.
Ad Acta.
The governing bodies need to implement rules immediately so that these ambiguous situations—where it's nearly impossible to pin down who is at fault—don't result in such arbitrary punishments.
Roger Wright94 said:It’s obvious they won't fly with the Mercedes camp or the many anti-Vettel crowd watching these things closely. I sometimes get the impression they just can't catch a break...
Now, look at New York City 2019.
Vettel made a driving error; he was under pressure. A braking mistake—nothing extraordinary, no physical damage sustained.
Lewis, however, messed up at least three times over. Identical, nearly identical errors. Not to mention the disaster on Friday.
And yet, you claim that's the main story. Vettel's mistake. Fine, whatever...
To me, it's far stranger that someone manages to win despite making that many driving errors.
I doubt a lock-up under braking is quite as fatal an error as flying across a chicane on the track.
crimsonhawk23 said:To me, Bottas and Gasly were the two biggest enigmas of this race. Bottas, specifically, because he failed to make any sort of meaningful impact whatsoever. Then there’s Gasly, who apparently spent a third of the race stuck behind Lance Stroll without managing to find a way past him. In fact, Stroll was actually pulling a decent gap on him—Lance drove a remarkably solid race from start to finish. 🤷
Lance Stroll remains a complete enigma to me. As for Valtteri Bottas, I’m hardly surprised; we all saw this kind of downward slide in form coming from a mile away.
To be perfectly honest, Lance Stroll was essentially written off as a driver. He just sort of materialized out of nowhere with this level of performance, which was quite frankly the last thing anyone expected from him.
It is truly a mystery.
I am of the opinion that this was his career-defining drive.
Gasly? I honestly don't even know what to say. He's just far too slow compared to Max Verstappen. There’s a massive gap there, much too large for him to justify staying with Red Bull Racing, and frankly, I'm seeing absolutely no signs of progress on that front.
I have to disagree with Jim Clark regarding the speed of the Mercedes-Benz; Bottas’s actual pace on the track tells a completely different story.
As for Lewis Hamilton, he possessed the sheer skill required to stay glued to the Ferrari, much like what we witnessed back in Bahrain.
I owe an apology to CS, Testing, and several others on this forum with whom I argued last night regarding Sebastian Vettel.
The guys were right; the penalty for Sebastian Vettel was absolutely deserved. After reviewing the footage from a million different angles today, it’s crystal clear. I might even imply there was intent involved, and what irritates me most is Sebastian Vettel's theatrics over the team radio during the race—that performance is precisely what led me to be unobjective.
It is my conclusion that Sebastian Vettel had sufficient control to leave the gap, and I have determined he was fully aware of Lewis Hamilton's position and chose to close the door intentionally.
The penalty is 100% justified, though I maintain that if it were up to me, I wouldn't have penalized him; I would have ruled it a racing incident, if only for the sake of the championship standings.
It is unfortunate, as Sebastian Vettel buckles under pressure and continues to demonstrate, more times than one can count, that he is mentally fragile. The man clearly snapped, evidenced by his highly questionable actions after the race, such as tampering with the numbers and so on.
I watched Rosberg's perspective later, and I find myself in complete agreement with him.
Rules exist for a reason and must be respected regardless of the circumstances. The stewards had an incredibly difficult and thankless task, but I fear they had to react this way despite knowing the massive amount of negative publicity it would generate.
I sincerely hope Sebastian Vettel can find some mental stability, but my hopes are clearly unfounded.
From Baku to Charlie, and now this—there is simply no reason to remain optimistic.
I like the driver and have found myself sympathizing with him lately, but his erratic behavior has surpassed all reasonable limits.
It seems to me he simply cannot handle this level of pressure.
I also hold Lewis Hamilton somewhat responsible for not speaking his mind directly and for pushing Sebastian Vettel to the edge, likely because he saw how furious Sebastian Vettel was becoming.
In short, had Lewis Hamilton not braked to avoid contact, Charles Leclerc might have been yesterday's winner, which perhaps would have been the best scenario for the championship.
Aside from the fact that Lewis Hamilton is undeniably the faster and better driver at this moment, he undoubtedly possesses much greater mental stability.
There. Once again, my apologies if I offended anyone. I wanted that Ferrari victory solely for the good of the championship; the win didn't happen because of Sebastian Vettel's error, and that is that.
It remains quite clear, and from my side, entirely impartial.
Roger Wright94 said:Sebastian Vettel earned that win today.
He managed to pull away from a superior car quite effectively. That final qualifying lap he put down was nothing short of brilliant.
He made one error during the race, though I am fairly certain it wasn't an intentional attempt to block anyone. The penalty they handed out for it is highly debatable, to say the least.
Lewis Hamilton fought hard to overtake Vettel on track, trying to prove he was faster or could win regardless of any penalties. It was unnecessary, really, given the inherent risks of driving that aggressively.
I actually appreciated seeing that effort.
However, in my view, Lewis ended up looking rather pathetic today. He doesn't need this. He doesn't need a victory like this. He’ll have hundreds of them anyway. If he had just conceded the five seconds, he would have been a true legend. A legend in my eyes, forever. There is no honor in retreating to hide behind your own fan base. Almost everyone does that. True class is when you earn the respect of the opposing side. Those people are incredibly rare.
Consequently, Lewis remains a mere lightweight and a dilettante in my estimation. Today, he was simply a characterless, hypocritical wretch. And he had the opportunity. A massive one.
Hmm, I wouldn't say that. He stated he wanted to pass him on the track, which he attempted until the very end despite knowing about the penalty. Besides, if he had just pulled off and lost five seconds, he might have run into trouble with Charles Leclerc.
The penalty against Sebastian Vettel is completely baseless; frankly, the stewards are acting like total idiots.
Both Ferrari and Sebastian Vettel need to push back aggressively on this decision.
What an absolute joke.
The penalty against Sebastian Vettel is completely baseless; frankly, the officials are acting like total idiots.
Ferrari and Vettel need to push back hard on this.
What an absolute joke.
Michael Jackson10 said:So you'd attempt all that while the wheels are off the ground?
Impressive... that simulation you're running clearly boasts a very faithful physics engine...
Though in reality, you probably don't even ride a bicycle...
This really should have been deliberated after the race, once heads had cooled down...
I agree on this point. If they truly believed a penalty was warranted, it ought to have been handed down post-race after reviewing the telemetry.
Not that there was any mention of a penalty to begin with.
crimsonhawk23 said:You’re always so "objective and realistic," Mario, seeing only what suits your narrative—like claiming Ayrton Senna veers right and slams into Alain Prost on his left. This whole debate is pointless with you.😁
By your logic, a bullet to the head would be a fair penalty for Max Verstappen during Japan 2018, yet today, Sebastian Vettel should be rewarded with an extra five points instead of a time penalty for doing the exact same thing.
Five seconds, just like Sebastian today. There isn't any difference.🤷
I stated that Senna holds his line on the inside edge of the track, if you are referring to Suzuka 1990.
So, you are lying once again.
crimsonhawk23 said:I’m calling it now: he's headed for a total mental breakdown before the season wraps up. It'll be just like last year when everything fell apart right after he lost a guaranteed win (Sponsored by FedEx) 🐔
Who actually cares about your little predictions?
The bottom line is the penalty today was unjust, and they effectively stripped the rightful winner of his victory.
Even Lewis Hamilton was practically pushing him onto the top step of the podium.
Let’s go, Sebastian Vettel or Charles Leclerc finally grab a win. Honestly, I wouldn't even mind if it were Max.
crimsonhawk23 said:Nobody is claiming it was even similar because it wasn't; it was identical.
No, it wasn't even close, let alone identical. Go ahead, drop another link if you really think you're right.🤦
Max was driving vertically, fighting the car just to block the line.
Even the corner configuration isn't the same—the angle is different, the loss of control was different.
But to you, it’s identical.🙏
@crimsonhawk23/">@
@crimsonhawk23 Don't embarrass yourself.
stormyviper2 said:I don't have any beef with anyone on this sub, honestly. 😉 I'm perfectly fine debating anyone, but I suspect things are about to turn into a total bloodbath here. It’s probably best to just lock this thread down now.
It was inevitable there would be a slaughter, given that crimsonhawk23 is lying through his teeth and hunting through my old posts just to try and scrub his own reputation.
crimsonhawk23 said:Of course I am.But you just kept on insisting you were right. 😁 Even that recent documentary—the one that was just posted here on Reddit—has a segment where Ayrton Senna claims he did it on purpose, but you know better than that. 😁
Exactly you. 😂😂
I didn't even bring up Ayrton Senna until you went and started tripping over some Suzuki nonsense!
Ayrton Senna never actually said he did that on purpose, so you’re lying through your teeth again. He said something else entirely, which you just completely misinterpreted because, frankly, you always get things wrong. Don't act surprised.
In their attempts to smear my reputation, I find myself wondering exactly how far they intend to go.
I think you tried to draw a connection between Max and Suzuki, but there really isn't any similarity there. I'll be waiting to see what else you come up with.
stormybadger8 said:Lewis Hamilton just showed how slippery he can be with that move...
First, he’s whining over the team radio demanding a penalty for Sebastian Vettel, and then later he plays the saint, acting like "seriously guys, this isn't right." 🙂
It was the same performance right when he climbed out of the car, acting all pathetic, breathing heavy, pretending he was completely exhausted and blah blah blah...
Basically, just a PR lightweight. 🙂
He realized this could bring him bad press, so he decided to put on an act...
If we are being realistic, any driver would demand a penalty if an opponent did the exact same thing to them. Vettel would have been swearing his head off on the radio too...
Except Vettel wouldn't have gone around playing the martyr or acting holy on the podium. ☕
Malo, what are you even doing? Why on earth are you celebrating a win at all!
Lewis Hamilton is a great driver, but sometimes he is truly strange.
And honestly, he was wiped because he was pushed right to the edge. Just look at how Valtteri Bottas ended up in that same car.
crimsonhawk23 said:unknown
:
He’s intentionally veering left toward Ayrton Senna, even though Senna is clearly on the right. But I’m lying. unknown 🤣
Why didn't you call out my typo immediately? Most people can figure out what I actually intended to type.
Besides, there are at least a few other posts where I described that exact incident without any errors, yet you somehow failed to mention those.
Furthermore, who is digging up old news again, and what does Ayrton Senna have to do with this discussion?
Jason Campbell70, your clones are acting up again.