Opening the WhatsApp chat?

Can we get this chat unlocked?
We'll behave, I promise.🕺

WhatsApp has been open since this morning -

Right now, we’re basically debating whether we want to keep the chats open or just lock them down for good. Let's be honest, things went way overboard a long time ago. The mods have pretty much decided they don't want to spend their time babysitting a chat every single month. It’s mostly just become a place for people to complain about moderation, vent about bans, call out clones, or try to summon the staff to specific threads. In the worst cases, it even turns into hate speech.

Man, what happened to everyone? It’s like everybody turned into a total mama's boy overnight—can't even say a word without running straight back to Mom to cry about it.

Sophia Thomas7 said:WhatsApp has been open since this morning -

Right now, we’re basically debating whether we want to keep the chats open or just lock them down for good. Let's be honest, things went way overboard a long time ago. The mods have pretty much decided they don't want to spend their time babysitting a chat every single month. It’s mostly just become a place for people to complain about moderation, vent about bans, call out clones, or try to summon the staff to specific threads. In the worst cases, it even turns into hate speech.

😁 That one's open because it was never actually locked to begin with. It's just the previous thread that hit page 500, so they started a new one.

Sophia Thomas7 said:WhatsApp has been open since this morning -

Right now, we’re basically debating whether we want to keep the chats open or just lock them down for good. Let's be honest, things went way overboard a long time ago. The mods have pretty much decided they don't want to spend their time babysitting a chat every single month. It’s mostly just become a place for people to complain about moderation, vent about bans, call out clones, or try to summon the staff to specific threads. In the worst cases, it even turns into hate speech.

I follow along with it and occasionally chime in myself, so I haven't really noticed the stuff you're listing.

Susan Davis7 said:Man, what happened to everyone? It’s like everybody turned into a total mama's boy overnight—can't even say a word without running straight back to Mom to cry about it.

Thanks for confirming that we don't even need this chat. 🙂

Sophia Thomas7 said:Thanks for confirming that we don't even need this chat. 🙂

I guess you can't really decide if the chat should close based on just one person. I suspect there are way more people who want to keep the chat alive than those who want it shut down. If it closes, this site will become one of those rare PDFs without a general chat. Honestly, the chat belongs here because that's how people actually bonded and met up.

Also, I’ve always argued that for those repeatedly breaking rules and being abusive, there should be a simple fix: either a warning or a ban-by-ban approach until they earn a permanent one. I know things are handled a bit more leniently here, but I don't think that achieves anything. That chat used to move over to the PDF Offtopic section because of how angry the former mods—or rather, "modettes"—were, but then it migrated back to the US and people came back to write. There have always been troublemakers, but closing the chat is just the easiest way for you to avoid dealing with the whining of forum members reporting posts or sliding into DMs. But again, I don't think that's the solution.

Just to add another point, Meadow closed the meetup thread, claiming it was because the location and time were secret, and she wouldn't reopen it until that changed. What is the logic there? Is it really normal for a forum member organizing a get-together at their own house to publicly post their location and compromise their privacy? Sure, someone could pass details through other channels, but no sane person would post their home address publicly on a thread. To build on that, the people who organized the follow-up meetup actually managed to meet recently by coordinating on the US WhatsApp and handling the specifics via DM. I didn't see the whole thing, but an opportunity popped up and now the thread is dead because of the whim of the moderator I mentioned earlier. People wanted to hang out, and I honestly don't see any other way they could have coordinated such a meeting if they hadn't discussed it on the chat first; you certainly aren't going to discuss whether people want to play board games on the main forums. The chat serves a purpose and always will, but the rules need to be clearly defined so that when those aggressive trolls show up to cause trouble, they are properly punished or removed for a long time. This isn't the first time people have fought, and I doubt it'll be the last. If threads were closed every time people argued, the PDF Politics section would have been shut down ages ago.

Finally, there’s already another chat on the US site anyway. The older crowd and those who used the general chat will likely migrate there (as some already have), and then the veterans will probably complain about why everyone is hanging out there instead.
If you truly believe the US doesn't need a chat, then just lock both the general one and the veteran one. If you think a chat has no place on the US at all, fine. But time and again, whether a chat is removed or not, it always finds its way back to the US. Many people met through it, which was a major plus for this site; without the chat, I highly doubt many of these meetups would have even happened. I know my post won't change the decision, but that's just my opinion, coming from someone who has been in that chat for nearly 10 years.

Sophia Thomas7 said:Thanks for confirming that we don't even need this chat. 🙂

Don't play dumb... what I said had zero to do with whether we need a chat or not
😉

Mickey, I’ve been wondering—what if the group of folks who actually want to have a normal conversation on WhatsApp, you know, the ones who mostly follow the rules, just put together some kind of warning system for those trolls? Because at the end of the day, their uncontrolled "wild west" behavior is exactly what gets the whole chat shut down in the first place.
Do you guys actually step in when people start hurling insults at other members, or when they start mocking the people who don't even hang out in your specific chat? Do the moderators react to the bullying? Or even to people calling for a "raid" to go mess with people over on another WhatsApp group?

Because honestly, those are the exact things that lead to a chat getting nuked.
for
That comment of yours about the other chat is seriously messed up—it’s like, "Oh great, now this bunch of obnoxious kids is going to migrate to the next chat to keep posting nonsense and making fun of the regulars there."
Don't you realize that the second they move, that chat will get shut down too? It’ll be for the exact same reasons this one is.

On Zud, a while back, a chat got closed because the moderator basically said "no thanks" to babysitting a massive pile of stupidity and constant provocations. And hey, that’s her right! That’s her legitimate prerogative!

And interestingly enough, the biggest troublemakers in that chat were a few of the USovacs.

mistyhound94 said:I guess you can't really decide if the chat should close based on just one person. I suspect there are way more people who want to keep the chat alive than those who want it shut down. If it closes, this site will become one of those rare PDFs without a general chat. Honestly, the chat belongs here because that's how people actually bonded and met up.

Also, I’ve always argued that for those repeatedly breaking rules and being abusive, there should be a simple fix: either a warning or a ban-by-ban approach until they earn a permanent one. I know things are handled a bit more leniently here, but I don't think that achieves anything. That chat used to move over to the PDF Offtopic section because of how angry the former mods—or rather, "modettes"—were, but then it migrated back to the US and people came back to write. There have always been troublemakers, but closing the chat is just the easiest way for you to avoid dealing with the whining of forum members reporting posts or sliding into DMs. But again, I don't think that's the solution.

Just to add another point, Meadow closed the meetup thread, claiming it was because the location and time were secret, and she wouldn't reopen it until that changed. What is the logic there? Is it really normal for a forum member organizing a get-together at their own house to publicly post their location and compromise their privacy? Sure, someone could pass details through other channels, but no sane person would post their home address publicly on a thread. To build on that, the people who organized the follow-up meetup actually managed to meet recently by coordinating on the US WhatsApp and handling the specifics via DM. I didn't see the whole thing, but an opportunity popped up and now the thread is dead because of the whim of the moderator I mentioned earlier. People wanted to hang out, and I honestly don't see any other way they could have coordinated such a meeting if they hadn't discussed it on the chat first; you certainly aren't going to discuss whether people want to play board games on the main forums. The chat serves a purpose and always will, but the rules need to be clearly defined so that when those aggressive trolls show up to cause trouble, they are properly punished or removed for a long time. This isn't the first time people have fought, and I doubt it'll be the last. If threads were closed every time people argued, the PDF Politics section would have been shut down ages ago.

Finally, there’s already another chat on the US site anyway. The older crowd and those who used the general chat will likely migrate there (as some already have), and then the veterans will probably complain about why everyone is hanging out there instead.
If you truly believe the US doesn't need a chat, then just lock both the general one and the veteran one. If you think a chat has no place on the US at all, fine. But time and again, whether a chat is removed or not, it always finds its way back to the US. Many people met through it, which was a major plus for this site; without the chat, I highly doubt many of these meetups would have even happened. I know my post won't change the decision, but that's just my opinion, coming from someone who has been in that chat for nearly 10 years.

Wait, are you actually implying I'm the reason the chat got shut down?

Oh, and one more thing—claiming the mods were just being salty when they shut down the WhatsApp

Look, I’m not exactly out here defending the moderators, but man... if you actually want to get something done—and if you need those mods to help make it happen—how clueless do you have to be to think that by throwing insults
you're going to achieve anything other than the exact opposite? 🤦

Hey, would Sophia Thomas7 or Jacob Sullivan91 mind letting me know if I'm the reason this chat keeps getting shut down? --- because if I am, I'll just stay out of it next time you guys reopen it... let everyone else actually enjoy themselves.

Susan Davis7 said:Hey, would Sophia Thomas7 or Jacob Sullivan91 mind letting me know if I'm the reason this chat keeps getting shut down? --- because if I am, I'll just stay out of it next time you guys reopen it... let everyone else actually enjoy themselves.

Look, it’s not just one specific person causing chats on the US to get closed. We were actually planning on shutting both of them down anyway since they basically stopped serving any purpose...

A chat is supposed to be like walking into a local pub—you drop in, have a little banter, and feel relaxed. What these US chats have turned into is honestly pretty pathetic. I mean, I *hope* you all know how to talk to each other without the constant insults, nitpicking every single word, or running to report someone just because they were being a jerk to you or your buddies...

I agree with mistyhound94 that we definitely need a chat here, so we’re going to keep one open. But it's on my head, which means the second anyone starts throwing insults around again—and some of you have already made that a habit—it’s gone. Closed. Done.

Splitting the community up isn't exactly the smartest move, so we're merging the chats into one. Hopefully, this puts an end to all the petty bickering and tattling...

Jacob Sullivan91 said:Look, it’s not just one specific person causing chats on the US to get closed. We were actually planning on shutting both of them down anyway since they basically stopped serving any purpose...

A chat is supposed to be like walking into a local pub—you drop in, have a little banter, and feel relaxed. What these US chats have turned into is honestly pretty pathetic. I mean, I *hope* you all know how to talk to each other without the constant insults, nitpicking every single word, or running to report someone just because they were being a jerk to you or your buddies...

I agree with mistyhound94 that we definitely need a chat here, so we’re going to keep one open. But it's on my head, which means the second anyone starts throwing insults around again—and some of you have already made that a habit—it’s gone. Closed. Done.

Splitting the community up isn't exactly the smartest move, so we're merging the chats into one. Hopefully, this puts an end to all the petty bickering and tattling...

Thanks!

nimbleowl6 said:Mickey, I’ve been wondering—what if the group of folks who actually want to have a normal conversation on WhatsApp, you know, the ones who mostly follow the rules, just put together some kind of warning system for those trolls? Because at the end of the day, their uncontrolled "wild west" behavior is exactly what gets the whole chat shut down in the first place.
Do you guys actually step in when people start hurling insults at other members, or when they start mocking the people who don't even hang out in your specific chat? Do the moderators react to the bullying? Or even to people calling for a "raid" to go mess with people over on another WhatsApp group?

Because honestly, those are the exact things that lead to a chat getting nuked.
for
That comment of yours about the other chat is seriously messed up—it’s like, "Oh great, now this bunch of obnoxious kids is going to migrate to the next chat to keep posting nonsense and making fun of the regulars there."
Don't you realize that the second they move, that chat will get shut down too? It’ll be for the exact same reasons this one is.

On Zud, a while back, a chat got closed because the moderator basically said "no thanks" to babysitting a massive pile of stupidity and constant provocations. And hey, that’s her right! That’s her legitimate prerogative!

And interestingly enough, the biggest troublemakers in that chat were a few of the USovacs.

I'm not trying to play cop or anything, I guess. But if I see someone getting insulted, I’m definitely not going to escalate things in the WhatsApp chat or anywhere else. There’s a report button for a reason. I'll just hit that and let the mods handle it. There are four of them volunteering their time, so they should be able to do their jobs once they see the reports. I have no intention of jumping into an argument or playing hall monitor to warn people. Honestly, I don't have the time or the energy for that anymore—work keeps me too busy to spend all day typing like I used to.

Look, the fact remains that if the WhatsApp group is meant for the older crowd, then it’s just a chat, and people moving over there isn't exactly a shocker. It’s pretty standard behavior. At the end of the day, it's still just a chat where the more mature users tended to hang out, and there aren't any clear-cut rules saying forum members can't participate in specific threads. Most of us aren't kids here; we're mostly adults in our 20s and 30s. So, I guess I'd ask that others don't try to belittle us with those kinds of comments. It doesn't achieve anything, other than proving that age doesn't necessarily equate to maturity—which, frankly, should be much higher by the time someone hits their 20s.

Thirdly, there is the issue of legitimate rights versus personal whims. Just because someone holds a moderator position doesn't mean their personal preference should be the final word on what happens to a specific chat. I guess, in my view, whatever benefits the forum and the majority of its users ought to take precedence over any individual's interests. This moderator from ŽuD decided she didn't want to handle certain things anymore, yet she kept her mod status regardless. That just isn't how it should work; she isn't the owner of this site, so her personal opinion shouldn't be treated like the law of the land here. If someone lacks the drive to actually moderate, maybe they should just hand the reins to someone else—someone who will actually manage the threads and subforums, ensure discussions stay on track, and have the patience to discipline those causing trouble. I'm not trying to attack the mods, per se; I just don't see the point in staying silent when I feel something is wrong. Honestly, if it weren't for the chat on the USA forum, the USA forum would be a toxic wasteland, and I doubt half these people would ever even interact if that chat didn't exist.

Regarding those USovac types causing trouble in other chats—you see them everywhere, really. It’s not like they only stick to their own subforum. At the end of the day, they're just regular users who post all over the place, I guess.

Susan Davis7 said:Wait, are you actually implying I'm the reason the chat got shut down?

I guess I’m not really aiming this at anyone specific since I don't even know why the WhatsApp group was shut down. In my opinion, you shouldn't close the whole chat just because of one or two people. But then again, if those same individuals keep causing issues over and over, they should probably just get banned. This isn't exactly the place for constant bickering and stuff like that.
Look, if I provoke someone on this forum, I know I might get banned for it. Honestly, I’ve already racked up quite a few strikes, but I don't really do that as much anymore. I just don't feel the need to go toe-to-toe with random strangers online. I see those aggressive types out on the streets in cities like Chicago, and I see them all over the internet too; I just stay far away from people like that.

nimbleowl6 said:Oh, and one more thing—claiming the mods were just being salty when they shut down the WhatsApp

Look, I’m not exactly out here defending the moderators, but man... if you actually want to get something done—and if you need those mods to help make it happen—how clueless do you have to be to think that by throwing insults
you're going to achieve anything other than the exact opposite? 🤦

An ex—and I really want to emphasize that. Ex-girlfriend. The moderator back then was just a hot-headed person who let the WhatsApp bother her, so she shut the whole thing down on her own whim. None of the mods from that era are even around anymore; some haven't been on the forum for quite a while. I haven't insulted anyone with my current posts, so I guess I'd ask that people stop putting words in my mouth. Thanks.

Look, mistyhound94, I don't agree with everything you said—don't get me wrong—but I totally agree that it’s just specific individuals who are responsible for ramping up the tension and then acting surprised when things boil over into actual conflicts. Sadly, those few people drag everyone else down with them until the whole WhatsApp chat turns into a complete mess.

I was actually participating in a heated debate on Reddit recently, and honestly, there wasn't a single thread where people weren't being rude or making snarky comments about my posts. And we're talking for days on end here. 😳

btw, I hope it's crystal clear that I definitely wasn't calling you a troublemaker—far from it, I actually really value the stuff you post.

There are other things you've mentioned that I don't see eye-to-eye on, but I don't see much point in nitpicking every little detail.

It seems like the 40+ group has become this massive, catch-all chat now, and I just hope
that certain people will finally chill out and start communicating like normal human beings—without all the rudeness and arrogance that just kills any chance of having a decent, civilized conversation.

Jacob Sullivan91 said:Look, it’s not just one specific person causing chats on the US to get closed. We were actually planning on shutting both of them down anyway since they basically stopped serving any purpose...

A chat is supposed to be like walking into a local pub—you drop in, have a little banter, and feel relaxed. What these US chats have turned into is honestly pretty pathetic. I mean, I *hope* you all know how to talk to each other without the constant insults, nitpicking every single word, or running to report someone just because they were being a jerk to you or your buddies...

I agree with mistyhound94 that we definitely need a chat here, so we’re going to keep one open. But it's on my head, which means the second anyone starts throwing insults around again—and some of you have already made that a habit—it’s gone. Closed. Done.

Splitting the community up isn't exactly the smartest move, so we're merging the chats into one. Hopefully, this puts an end to all the petty bickering and tattling...

Could I get a rough idea of how many reports are filed specifically for the chat? Just a ballpark figure? If I reported someone in the chat a long time ago, I don't recall, but I usually only report those sharing non-public info or people who are straight-up insulting others on the forum.

And I definitely agree that a chat should be like a neighborhood pub, but I think you know as well as I do that you can find all kinds of different personalities in there. If you put a few people who can't stand each other in the same pub, clashes are pretty much inevitable. 😁
I know that from experience because I was part of it years ago, but I don't see the point now. Who I hang out with or message is my business; if someone is annoying, I'll just ignore them or avoid them. But apparently, some people on the forum crave conflict because there's no physical component to the fight, making it easier to dump their frustrations and anger into the chat. They seem to forget what the whole point of a chat is supposed to be. And nobody wants to spend all day moderating it. I suggested stricter penalties for repeat offenders, but it's hard to root out that kind of behavior. It eventually leads to debating whether the chat stays alive at all or if it should just go dark for a few months. In that case, I might even be inclined to suggest putting the chat on ice for, say, three months. Then, if things still get ugly after that, I'd understand why you wouldn't want a chat on the US where the fighting just carries over.

I've always been down for a bit of banter or "messing around" within reason; plenty of people have joked around, including myself. That's how it works at work, too, and those kinds of relationships are actually healthier. But this is the US, and people there are often lonely, stressed, depressed, or just desperate. Still, the chat has brought many of us together, helping us meet and even become real-life friends, which is the beautiful side of having a chat. I really want to keep it going.
If it does end up having to be locked, well, that's on the people who escalate arguments publicly instead of taking them to private messages to argue virtually when they clearly have nothing better to do with their lives.

As mods for the US, you guys do a pretty good job. Sometimes things get frustrating—like me feeling annoyed about closing a social thread for reasons like this—but you need thick skin to deal with people. I have plenty of practical experience with that, mostly from work, and it’s not that different; it's just that people here keep complaining about other people. 😬

Mickey, the WhatsApp groups on the ŽuD were such a mess that they eventually had to shut them down because things got way too personal and spilled over into real life.

Look, I was actually the one pushing to open the chat back in the day, promising I’d moderate it, and I spent years hanging out there and keeping up with everything.

But once it turned into this unreadable disaster—honestly, just total chaos—it only made sense to pull the plug.

The same goes for the US WhatsApp group. I decided to stick around and follow it, but if you guys keep treating it like some low-effort tabloid feed, no moderator is going to touch it... and we absolutely cannot have an unmoderated thread where people are just hurling insults at everyone left and right.

At the end of the day, a chat isn't some essential part of any PDF, and the forum can totally survive without one.

So, if I’m getting this right—is it really true that just one idiot on WhatsApp can cause enough chaos to shut down the chat for every single person on the forum?

It’s worth keeping in mind that certain people are... well, you know... and even more importantly—everyone knows what's really going on. Every story has two sides, so don't forget that.

nimbleowl6 said:Look, mistyhound94, I don't agree with everything you said—don't get me wrong—but I totally agree that it’s just specific individuals who are responsible for ramping up the tension and then acting surprised when things boil over into actual conflicts. Sadly, those few people drag everyone else down with them until the whole WhatsApp chat turns into a complete mess.

I was actually participating in a heated debate on Reddit recently, and honestly, there wasn't a single thread where people weren't being rude or making snarky comments about my posts. And we're talking for days on end here. 😳

btw, I hope it's crystal clear that I definitely wasn't calling you a troublemaker—far from it, I actually really value the stuff you post.

There are other things you've mentioned that I don't see eye-to-eye on, but I don't see much point in nitpicking every little detail.

It seems like the 40+ group has become this massive, catch-all chat now, and I just hope
that certain people will finally chill out and start communicating like normal human beings—without all the rudeness and arrogance that just kills any chance of having a decent, civilized conversation.

I'm a Virgo, so I guess nitpicking is practically part of my job description. 😬
But hey, at the end of the day, we're just sharing opinions, so it's fine. 🙂

I also hope everyone calms down so we can stop the bickering and instigating, though I always say the US is a powder keg; I just hope nobody decides to light the fuse right now.
People should hang out with those they actually like, not those they don't. People should be laughing, grabbing drinks, and just enjoying life—the world isn't meant for constant conflict, it's meant for enjoying time with others. If more people were relaxed and less negative, the US would actually be a nice place to hang out.