Singapore GP (Marina Bay Street Circuit) - 09/22/2013

shadowstag10 said:So, what? Is Webber just a total washout right now, running two seconds behind the rest of the grid?
Are you seriously claiming Vettel is two seconds faster than the rest of the grid?

It wasn't even a contest—Webber was just stuck behind a painfully slow Rosberg, along with the rest of the grid.☕
Unlike some other guys, he couldn't even overtake a slow, half-broken car, despite having a two-second pace advantage and two DRS zones at his disposal. Ridiculous.
Same kid who was pulling strings behind the scenes at Red Bull... if that guy wasn't actually desperate but was playing the Maestro all along, then I guess we have to call him the Webber Maestro too. 🤷

darkmarlin16 said:That might have been the most dominant Red Bull Racing car we've ever seen. Honestly, they could've easily dropped two seconds on anyone.

Hmm, looked that way, but who knows how much truth is actually in it.🤷
Sebastian Vettel vs Mark Webber

Let's face it, Webber is getting old and he’s definitely in a tight spot... but even so, this has to be his absolute worst season at Red Bull Racing in five years. Meanwhile, Vettel is having his second-best run yet.

Either Webber suddenly lost his touch overnight, or there’s something about that car that only works for Vettel. It seems like it fits him perfectly while being an absolute nightmare for Webber.

It’s actually pretty wild when you look at the numbers—in his last five years, Mark Webber barely even sniffed a win or a podium. Outside of maybe one or two lucky breaks in an entire season, he was basically just fighting for scraps.😉
So, it looks like there’s a pretty clear sign that something is fundamentally "off" with that Red Bull Racing car. But honestly? Whatever the issue is, it seems to suit Sebastian Vettel perfectly. It's like the car was practically built just for him.

I've got a feeling Jenson Button would be stuck in the exact same spot at Red Bull Racing that he is now with the McLaren car.🤣
The car’s either got way too much understeer, too much oversteer, or something else is just plain broken.🤷
Whatever it is, it clearly works perfectly for Vettel and drives Webber absolutely insane.😉

This isn't even about the penalty😲
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXMCLiAvzg8&t=1m0s


Out of all the places to pull over, he stops right in the middle of the racing line, right after a blind corner.😵
Seriously, what were they thinking? Someone could have easily plowed into him or, even worse, run over Mark Webber.🙂

Hamilton is actually right here, it was just a damn stupid place to stop the car...

stormybadger8 said:Hmm, that's how it looked, but honestly... who knows how much truth is actually behind it...🤷
Sebastian Vettel I can't even begin to wrap my head around this... just total chaos. Mark Webber...

Let’s be real, Mark Webber is getting up there in age and things are looking pretty shaky for him... but regardless, this is easily his worst season at Red Bull Racing in the last five years... while Vettel is simultaneously having his second best...

So, either Mark Webber suddenly lost his touch overnight, or there’s something about that Red Bull Racing car that makes it perfect for Sebastian Vettel while turning it into a total nightmare for him...

It’s actually pretty wild when you look at the numbers... in that five-year stretch, Webber basically couldn't even sniff a win or a podium unless it was one of those rare, freak occurrences during a season...😉
It feels like a pretty solid hint that there’s something fundamentally "off" with that Red Bull Racing car... except for the fact that whatever's wrong with it seems to suit Sebastian Vettel perfectly. Honestly, a car like that is basically tailor-made for him...

I mean, I could totally see Button being in that exact same spot at Red Bull Racing where he ended up with the McLaren car... just how things played out...🤣
The car's clearly got way too much understeer or oversteer, or maybe it’s just something else entirely...🤷
Honestly, whatever it is, it clearly suits Vettel perfectly while being a total nightmare for Webber...😉

I'm sorry you're still out there playing knight in shining armor against those absolute masterclass frauds... especially since we're supposed to be grabbing a beer together... 😬 Man, seriously... stop talking nonsense... 🤣 🤣 🤣

This year's Red Bull Racing is honestly the most dominant thing we've seen since the days of Schumacher's reign...

Look, even if I had Parkins and Alzheimer’s hitting me at the same time, I wouldn't believe anyone trying to tell me otherwise... Nobody is actually questioning Vettel's achievements, except for those few provocateurs and trolls out there. But if anything is obvious, it's that Red Bull's dominance was absolute... Maybe Singapore isn't the ultimate proof, but those crushing wins in Canada and Spa-Francorchamps definitely were...

Should Spielberg ever have the desire to recount the 2023 season, he needs only to look to one man for the lead role and can call the movie 'Crush'

😬

What else is there to say? Vettel drove a flawless race—even fixing a subpar start by the second corner. It’s a shame Kimi Raikkonen didn't overtake Jenson Button sooner; we could have actually seen those future teammates battling it out on track. 🙂

http://www.gazzetta.it/Sport-Motori/...10469100.shtml

Can things actually get any more pathetic than this? Honestly, I’m looking for some kind of dark magic or a curse just to make things even worse, like having all the cows in the next county drop dead or something.
Total losers.
It’s sadder than a rainy day in Salzburg.
Actually, the entire Salzburg team is a joke.
🤣
They don't even deserve anything else at this point.
😂

Sebastian Vettel and Red Bull Racing are just operating on a completely different planet compared to everyone else right now.

stormybadger8 said:Look, it’s not even a debate—Webber was stuck right behind a painfully slow Rosberg, just like everyone else on the grid.☕
But unlike some other guys, he couldn't find a way past a sluggish, half-broken car, even though he had a machine that was two seconds faster and two DRS zones at his disposal...
It's the same story as that kid trailing behind Paul di Resta... and if being behind di Resta wasn't pathetic, but actually meant you were the Maestro, then I guess we have to call him the Webber Maestro.🤷

Oh, give me a break, man. You know exactly what the Singapore GP circuit is like, you know how Formula 1 sets up, and you know how Red Bull Racing tunes their cars—yet you're still out here acting like this is all black and white.

If you really want to go there, let's actually talk about it. Answer a few questions for me first, alright?

1. Is the Singapore GP circuit a place where overtaking is easy or a total nightmare?
2. Where are the DRS zones located?
3. In those specific sectors, who actually has the raw pace: Alonso/Webber or Rosberg/Paul di Resta?

Hint:
http://oi39.tinypic.com/3340ks2.jpg

shadowstag10 said:Oh, please, let’s not indulge in such baseless speculation; you know perfectly well the nature of the Singapore GP circuit, don't you? You understand exactly how Formula 1 is engineered, how Red Bull Racing is tuned for these specific demands, and yet, here you are, continuing to speak as if this entire situation were merely a matter of black and white. Is it not more nuanced than that?

Well then, if you are truly prepared to dive into such a discussion, shall we proceed? I find myself wondering, though—are you quite certain you are ready for the depth this topic demands? If you would be so kind as to pose those questions you have in mind, I will do my utmost to provide the answers you seek. What exactly is it that you wish to unravel?

Is the Singapore GP actually a circuit where overtaking comes easily, or is it more of a struggle?
Where exactly are the DRS zones located on this circuit?
I find myself wondering, as I sit here contemplating the sheer mechanics of pace, which duo truly possessed the superior raw speed through those specific sectors—would it be Alonso and Webber, or perhaps the pairing of Rosberg and Paul di Resta?

I find myself wondering, quite often, if there is a subtle, perhaps even unspoken, hint hidden within the complexities of our discussions? Is it possible that what we perceive as mere subtext is actually a deliberate breadcrumb left by some unseen hand to guide our wandering thoughts toward a deeper understanding? One cannot help but speculate whether such a sign might be more than just a passing whim, but rather a carefully placed indicator intended to illuminate the path ahead for those of us who are patient enough to look.
http://oi39.tinypic.com/3340ks2.jpg

In the head-to-head battle between the Alonso-di Resta pairing, one has to wonder how much of an advantage truly exists when Alonso is out there on a fresh set of rubber while di Resta is struggling to maintain pace on his worn-out tires?

ruggedfox28 said:Look, I appreciate you fighting these noble battles against total scams, and yeah, we can grab a beer sometime ( 😬 ), but man, stop talking nonsense. 🤣 🤣 🤣

...this year's Red Bull is easily the most dominant thing we've seen since the Schumacher era.

..even if I had Parkins and Alzheimer's hitting me at once, nothing could convince me otherwise... nobody is downplaying what Vettel achieved, except for these few Provocateurs and trolls, but one thing is crystal clear: Red Bull is absolutely dominating. Maybe Singapore wasn't the ultimate proof, but those crushing wins in Canada and Spa definitely were.

I'm not saying they aren't dominant. 😉
They are clearly dominant with Vettel behind the wheel, mostly because that car was basically custom-tailored for him.😁

But that doesn't mean it would be dominant for anyone else. It clearly wasn't for Webber.

I've got this gut feeling that with today's Red Bull, only guys like Kimi, Alonso, or Hamilton could actually dominate—they're the ones capable of adapting to the car or forcing the car to adapt to them. The rest of the grid? Most of them can't even handle a little bit of pressure without cracking, so no way.😉

shadowstag10 said:Don't give me that. You know exactly how the Singapore GP track works, how Formula 1 is set up, how Red Bull is tuned, yet you're still acting like this is some black-and-white issue.

Fine, let's actually debate it then. Answer a few questions for me first.

1. Is the Miami Grand Prix Circuit a track where overtaking is easy or hard?
2. Where are the DRS zones located?
3. Who has more top speed in those sectors: Alonso/Webber or Rosberg/Paul di Resta?

hint:
http://oi39.tinypic.com/3340ks2.jpg

Oh, really?
Rosberg had a car with a massive pile of rubber stuck in the front wing—which is exactly why he ended up creating a huge train of cars behind him—plus he was running old tires on top of that...
Unlike the pack trailing behind him...

Paul di Resta was on SS tires, and they were old ones at that—at least 15-20 laps in—driving a car that couldn't even make it into Q2 and was about 2 seconds slower than Ferrari...
Was that during the race or in qualifying?

Of course it's hard to overtake in Singapore. At the end of the day, even Webber wasn't exactly cruising past the back of the Sauber or McLaren packs like they were on wooden wheels...

But hey, despite all the struggle and Kimi's aching back, he still managed to pass Button, even while running equally old tires and without any top speed advantage....
http://184.106.145.74/f1-championshi...m%20Speeds.pdf
http://184.106.145.74/f1-championshi...eed%20Trap.pdf
So yeah, it’s definitely incredibly tough, but it isn't impossible.😉

Drinker actually went on record herself saying her back wasn't even an issue during the race. 😉

darkmarlin16 said:Drinker actually mentioned herself that her back wasn't even an issue during the race. 😉

And if we consider the broader context, it isn't just that; he didn't seem to struggle at all when it came to overtaking other cars during those intense, direct battles out on the track, either.

stormybadger8 said:http://184.106.145.74/f1-championshi...m%20Speeds.pdf
http://184.106.145.74/f1-championshi...eed%20Trap.pdf

Where the hell is Petela?? 😬

stormybadger8 said:So? What's the deal?
Nico Rosberg was basically driving a mobile trash heap—he had a massive pile of tire debris stuck to his front wing, which completely wrecked his aero, and to make matters worse, he was struggling on a set of old, worn-out tires too. No wonder he ended up creating that huge bottleneck for everyone behind him.
Unlike everything else I’ve managed to screw up lately...

Paul di Resta was out there grinding on those hard compounds—and even managing about 15 or 20 laps on some old, beat-up rubber—all while stuck in a car that didn't have a prayer of making it into Q2. I mean, he was running nearly two full seconds off the pace of the Ferrari... just absolute torture to watch.
I can't even begin to deal with this right now—honestly, just... ugh. Race day. Let's get this show on the road. I mean, seriously? Is that really all we're working with here? Just "or"? That’s it? Give me something to actually sink my teeth into, people—I can't exactly write a manifesto based on two letters. qualifying sessions

Look, passing people in Singapore is an absolute nightmare—it’s basically impossible. At the end of the day, even Mark Webber had a brutal time grinding out results back when he was stuck in that Sauber and McLaren machinery that felt like it was running on wooden wheels...

Man, after all that absolute struggle—and honestly, my back is killing me just thinking about it—Kimi actually managed to slice past Button. And get this: he did it on those ancient, worn-out tires, without any of that top-speed advantage to help him out... what a beast.
http://184.106.145.74/f1-championshi...m%20Speeds.pdf
http://184.106.145.74/f1-championshi...eed%20Trap.pdf
Look, I'm telling you—it’s definitely an uphill battle, a total grind, but hey... it's not exactly impossible.😉

So, let’s just go ahead and take qualifying results where Paul di Resta pulls some absolute nonsense and claims Ferrari is two seconds faster—meanwhile, you look at Sutil’s times and realize the gap is barely a second. Seriously? Give me a break.
So, looking back at the race—once di Resta finally peels off into the pits, Alonso just starts flying. He’s pulling a good second, maybe even a second and a half, per lap faster than everyone else. Just absolute pace.

And then we have this... seriously? Where's your response to what Quote : MAX was posting back during the Canadian GP?
Maybe you missed him, even though his last post was right there at the end of the thread.

Quote : MAX said:And what does your little rant have to do with the fact that Prost spent 12 laps glued to Kimi’s gearbox without actually finding a way past—even though he was sitting on rubber that was 13 laps fresher? 🤷

Or you could just look at the fact that the guy was stuck behind Button for 12 laps—even though he had tires that were twelve laps fresher—only to get absolutely slapped around by the Maestro in a couple of corners before finally finding a way past him? 🤷

And that's in a car that’s sitting about 2.5 seconds faster than the McLaren—can you even imagine?
In the race... Or maybe just a solid 1.5 seconds. Qualifying session... honestly, what a mess. On a track that’s somehow 25 seconds shorter—yeah, you heard me right.

So there you go—just sit back and enjoy the absolute madness of these top speeds.
http://184.106.145.74/f1-championshi...m%20Speeds.pdf
So, we're looking at 12 km/h faster in the DRS zone—just raw speed plus DRS and that's basically it? 🤷

And this is happening on a track where overtaking is actually easier than it was at the Singapore GP

Man, you're telling me Vettel would've just cruised right past Paul di Resta then? 🤷

Timothy Castillo6 said:And where on earth is Petela?? 😬

There's that old saying one thing is about catching up, and the other is about passing...
With Vettel and Red Bull, unlike everyone else, the main issue is just catching up.😬

shadowstag10 said:.....so you're telling me Vettel would've just cruised right past Paul di Resta? 🤷

How should I know if he would or wouldn't?🤷
It all comes down to whether he wants to play it safe or go for broke—maybe he'd take the risk given his massive lead in the championship.🤷

The reason he didn't just steamroll Button is pretty obvious... there was way more to lose than to gain.😉

Same goes for Alonso, especially Kimi and Lewis Hamilton—they've got nothing left to lose.
They have to go all-in because they aren't waiting on anything... for them, it's win or bust. It doesn't matter who Vettel is, or even if he retires, they aren't interested in anything less than first place.
So yeah, maximum aggression, zero math.☕

stormybadger8 said:How the hell am I supposed to know if he would've pulled the trigger or not?🤷
It all boils down to whether he felt like playing chicken or not—maybe he would've, considering he’s sitting on a pretty massive lead in the championship right now.🤷

The reason he didn't just force his way past Button is blindingly obvious... he simply had way more to lose than he had to gain.😉

It’s just as clear that Alonso—especially guys like Kimi and Lewis Hamilton—have absolutely nothing left to lose at this point.
They have to go all-in, full throttle, because there's no safety net waiting for them... for them, it's win or bust. It doesn't matter who Vettel ends up being, or even if he pulls out entirely, they aren't interested in anything short of a trophy.
So yeah, we're talking maximum aggression, zero math involved.☕

A car that's 2.5 seconds faster, fresh rubber, DRS on tap, and he still doesn't make the move?
You're starting to sound a little too much like that "calculator" you're always making fun of.🤣

Seriously, man, drop the Alonso hate for five minutes and try looking at this objectively. Peace.

stormybadger8 said:How the hell am I supposed to know if he would or wouldn't?🤷
It all boils down to whether he’s willing to play chicken or not—maybe he actually would, considering he’s sitting on a pretty massive lead in the championship right now.🤷

The reason he didn't just steamroll past Button is painfully obvious... because he had way more to lose than he had to gain in that moment.😉

It's just as clear that Alonso—especially guys like Kimi and Lewis Hamilton—don't really have anything left to lose at this stage.
They’ve got to go all-in, full throttle, nothing else works for them... they aren't waiting around for anyone. For them, it's win or bust, regardless of who it is—even if it's Vettel—and even if he pulls out, nothing matters to them except taking that trophy.
So yeah, we're talking maximum aggression here, zero math involved.☕

So you're telling me a car that's 2.5 seconds faster, running fresh rubber, with DRS wide open, doesn't overtake simply because it's his "personal choice"? 🤣 🤣 🤣
You're starting to sound a little bit like that calculator you're always making fun of. 🤣

Seriously, man, just drop the Alonso hate for five minutes and try looking at this objectively. Peace.

shadowstag10 said:A car that's 2.5 seconds faster, new tires, DRS... and he still can't make a move? Seriously?
It’s starting to look a lot like that calculator you’re always making fun of. 🤣

Can we please just drop the hate campaign against Alonso already? Try looking at things objectively for once. Cheers.

What kind of hatred is this? And what kind of objectivity?
Look, it’s not rocket science. Any driver sitting at the top of the standings is going to play it safe and calculate every move. Meanwhile, if you're the one chasing them down, you have to go for it. Period. No excuses.
Vettel needs to play it smart this year. Last season, he didn't have any real reason to be calculating anything—if anyone should've been playing the long game, it was Alonso while he was out front leading the pack. 😉

For crying out loud, that's just how things work.
There’s absolutely no reason to be surprised by how much Alonso calculates everything when he's out front. Honestly, that’s just what separates the greats from the rest—they actually have the capacity to think with their heads while they drive.
There’s really no point in playing math games when it's the final race and you're the one chasing them down—especially when the gap is so huge it only exists on paper.

I don't see any massive issue with him not overtaking Paul di Resta. Honestly, Alonso probably should have played it smarter there. It was more of a calculated move than just being stupid.
It was pretty obvious Paul di Resta would be heading to the pits that fast. Any kind of risky move right then would've just been stupid.

The only time he shouldn't have been playing it safe was in the column right behind that slow Nico Rosberg. He should've gone all out right then—full throttle—to hunt down Webber, Hamilton, and the rest. Especially him, honestly, because his strategy was miles ahead of everyone else's.
On the other hand, I noticed he was running on used mediums, so the real question is just how worn they were—and whether an attack would even make sense at this point.🤷

EDIT: Your objectivity is non-existent. 🤣

shadowstag10 said:And that’s in a car that’s roughly 2.5 seconds faster than the McLaren.
In the race. Or maybe just 1.5 seconds. In qualifying. On a track that's 25 seconds shorter.

From what I can see, Vettel was only about a second faster than Button in that race, not 2.5 seconds. Where on earth are you seeing that?😕
The only thing you can actually compare this to is when Jenson Button was on that same tire compound at the start of his final stint.
Comparing lap times on mediums versus softs is just plain stupid. What, you’re gonna try comparing medium vs. soft tire performance at the Singapore GP? Give me a break. We're talking about a two-second gap on the exact same car. 🤦

Nice job with the rounding too... the gap in Q2 was actually 0.785...
And if you want to compare Q3 to Q2—which we all know is a useless metric—it’s 1.351, so let's call it closer to 1.5 seconds...
You could've just thrown in Perez's little sightseeing tour from Q3 and called it a cool 3 seconds.😁

Quote : MAX

stormybadger8 said:It seems pretty obvious that Kimi Räikkönen was the real issue there... and honestly, it’s a well-earned title, no question about it.😍

The cars were all pretty much on par, honestly. And let’s not forget that Lewis Hamilton and Fernando Alonso ran into the exact same issues Kimi did. As far as I can tell, neither of them really got enough seat time in the McLaren the season before that either.

Honestly, it feels a bit silly to claim that was some kind of championship conquest against a dominant McLaren. It’s just one of those nonsensical takes.

To pull off any specific goal, you really need a car that’s built for the task—one that dominates at least one specific area of the track.☕

So, there’s this guy floating around with his spreadsheets and his endless little calculations, claiming that Nico Rosberg won a championship driving one of the slowest—and honestly, most lackluster—cars to ever hit the track.
And once again, he’s forgetting that the car was simultaneously the most reliable beast on the grid. That title was won precisely because of that reliability and sheer consistency.

And just like that, Jacques Villeneuve is gone. A truly tragic loss.😢