Singapore GP (Marina Bay Street Circuit) - 09/22/2013

stormybadger8 said:What kind of hate and what kind of objectives?
Look, it’s obvious. Any driver holding a championship lead is going to play the numbers, and anyone chasing them has to push at any cost...
Vettel needs to be calculating this year. Last year, he didn't really have a smart reason to calculate; last year, Alonso should have been playing the odds as long as he was leading.😉

That is, honestly, just how things work.
There’s no reason to be shocked by Alonso calculating while he held the lead. In fact, that’s a hallmark of great drivers—being able to think with their heads.
But then again, there isn't much to calculate when it’s the final race and you're the one hunting, or when the lead is so massive it’s only reachable in theory...

And personally, I don't see a major issue with him not overtaking Paul di Resta... Alonso probably should have played it safe there... it was a smart move rather than a stupid one.
It was easy to assume Paul di Resta would pit very soon, and making any risky move would have just been foolish.

The only time he shouldn't have been calculating was stuck in that line behind a slow Nico Rosberg. He should have used every ounce of strength to attack Mark Webber, Lewis Hamilton, and himself... especially since he had the far superior tactic...
Though, looking at it from another angle, he was on worn medium tires, so the question is just how worn they were and if an attack would even make sense.🤷

A defining trait of legendary drivers is that in the situation Alonso found himself in, they simply MUST attack the guy in front... They HAVE to because there is no more time left for anything else... And there wasn't even an attempt. Even Gerhard Berger, arguably the best second driver ever, wouldn't have let that happen, nor would Eddie Irvine, not to mention Alain Prost, the aggressive Senna, or even crazy Nigel Mansell who couldn't stop pushing even in situations that seemed settled... Alonso simply can't call himself a great driver if he doesn't try in moments like these, nothing at all... A racer just shouldn't allow himself to do that... He HAD to go for it... But he didn't.

Michael Diaz4 said:What defines a legendary driver is that when they find themselves in a spot like Alonso just did, they HAVE to go for the overtake... They have to, because there's zero time left for anything else... But he didn't even try. You wouldn't see that from Gerhard Berger, even with his best teammate ever, or Eddie Irvine, let alone Prost, an aggressive Senna, or crazy Mansell who’d dive in even when things were already settled... Alonso simply can't be considered a great if he doesn't attempt anything in situations like this... A real racer shouldn't allow himself to hesitate like that... He HAD to push forward... And he didn't.

The issue is that for years, the entire team's strategy has basically been "let's just wait until Vettel's car dies"... instead of actually building the fastest car and the best crew possible.

In the end, though, there isn't much else to say. Forcing it in that situation against Paul di Resta would have just risked a crash, and you just don't get a version of Vettel like this in a team like this.

Ultimately, he's the one to blame...
He had the chance back in 2008 to join Red Bull—they offered him a contract—but he turned them down because the Ferrari was a better car. So, who's the idiot now?🤷

If he'd had the guts to join a struggling team back then, he'd be in a dominant car today, and we'd be sitting here watching a massive showdown between Vettel and Alonso in the same garage.

Michael Diaz4 said:Look, what defines a legendary driver is that when they find themselves in the exact spot Alonso was in, they just HAVE to go for it—they have to dive down the inside of whoever is ahead because there’s simply no time left for anything else... But there wasn't even an attempt here. Seriously. You wouldn't even see that from Gerhard Berger, even with his best teammate ever, or Eddie Irvine, let alone someone like Prost, the hyper-aggressive Senna, or even crazy Mansell who couldn't stop being wild even when things were clearly settled... Alonso just can't claim to be a great driver if he won't even try in situations like this—absolutely nothing. That’s a mistake a real racer just shouldn't make. He HAD to move up... and he didn't...

And what exactly would that have changed?

Result 1. hitting the wall
Result 2. Paul di Resta gets his prestige back, so what now?

Michael Diaz4 said:And then there was the tragic loss of the unforgettable Jacques Villeneuve😢

If you had actually heard about what happened with Didier Pironi, where would you even stop? 🙏

Jason Campbell70 said:And if you had actually heard about Didier Pironi, man, you wouldn't even know where to start. 🙏

Look, he wasn't exactly a top-tier driver, but fine, let’s include him in the conversation (you remember that tragic accident on the water...). This race really showed who actually has the guts to stay flat out until the finish line. Even Lewis Hamilton wouldn't have dared to pull off what Sebastian Vettel did. And Nico Rosberg? He wasn't bad at all. Just watch how hard he fought—he was actually more aggressive than both Hamilton and Jenson Button. I have to say, he pleasantly surprised me. Now, whether that performance shift was due to a loss of focus, tire degradation, or some messy combination of both, I couldn't tell you. But before you reach the point where everything fails and morale bottoms out—where fear settles into your bones and you're too afraid to push the pedal to the floor—it starts right there.

shadowstag10 said:And what exactly would change?

Result 1. hitting the wall
Result 2. Paul di Resta regains his prestige, so now what?

It doesn't have to go down that way. Just look at those flashes of inspiration from Nico Rosberg... He actually surprised me with how aggressive he got toward the end of the race. Maybe he'll turn out to be a solid driver once he settles in and finally finds his edge...🙂

stormybadger8 said:The core issue is how the entire team’s strategy for years has just been "let's wait for Vettel's car to fall apart"... instead of actually building the fastest car and the best crew possible...

In the end, there really isn't much else to say. Trying to force a move in a situation involving Sergio di Resta would have just risked a massive collision. Besides, you simply can't get a driver like Vettel when he's stuck in a team like this...

But honestly, he brought this on himself...
He had the chance back in 2008. Red Bull Racing offered him a contract, but he turned them down because the Ferrari was a better machine. You can't really blame anyone else now, can you?🤷

If he had possessed the guts to join a weaker team back then, he’d be driving a dominant car today. We’d actually be getting to watch a legendary battle between Vettel and Fernando Alonso within the same garage.

I still maintain my stance: Ferrari has a dominant car, they just don't have the right drivers. Felipe Massa is basically at the tail end of his career, and Fernando Alonso has been making excuses for years. Every time he runs into a faster driver, he starts complaining. That’s not what a great driver does. You either have it or you don't, and he isn't showing it. If Michael Schumacher had a car like this back in the day, he would have been the champion over Mika Hakkinen all those years ago. Fernando Alonso just doesn't have that class...

Michael Diaz4 said:I’m still stuck on the idea that Ferrari has a beast of a car, they just don't have anyone in the cockpit who can actually drive it... Felipe Massa is basically riding out the clock at this point, and Fernando Alonso has been whining for years—the second he runs into someone faster, it's nothing but excuses... That’s just not how a legendary driver acts. You either have it or you don't, and he's clearly not showing it. If Michael Schumacher had been behind the wheel of a machine like this back in the day, he would've cruised to the title instead of Mika Hakkinen taking it all those years ago... Alonso just isn't in the same league.

give me a facepalm already, thanks

Michael Diaz4 said:I’m still sticking to my guns—Ferrari has a beast of a car, they just don't have the right drivers behind the wheel... Felipe Massa is basically hitting the twilight of his career, and Fernando Alonso has been complaining for years whenever he runs into someone actually faster than him... That’s just not what a top-tier driver does... You either have it or you don't, and he isn't showing it... If Michael Schumacher had a car this good back in the day, he would've cruised to championships over Mika Hakkinen... Alonso just isn't in that league...

Just wait until next year—you'll see none of them are even close.

Nathan Jones98 said:Just wait until next year when you realize none of them were actually good.

haha, keep telling yourself that... You can't fix a lack of raw talent. Fernando Alonso is just showing what an average driver looks like given the machine he's running... As for the team's long-term strength, we'll see about that in the coming years, but right now, Ferrari has the most convincing and fastest car on the grid... Their starts are nothing short of phenomenal... It’s no coincidence that Fernando Alonso consistently pulls off the best starts, only to lose momentum because of mediocre driving or questionable strategy... Even his tactics caught up to him this time, getting stuck behind Sergio di Resta when he wasn't allowed to make the move...

Michael Diaz4 said:Haha, keep dreaming... you can't fix a lack of talent. Fernando Alonso is just an average driver considering the car he’s in... We'll see about the team's raw power next year or the year after, but right now, Ferrari has the clear edge with the fastest car... Their starts are insane... It can't be a fluke that Fernando Alonso consistently nails the launch, only to lose it all because he's mediocre and the strategy is trash... The tactics killed him this time too—getting stuck behind Sergio di Resta when he wasn't allowed to pass...

Did you even watch Austin last year?

Enough of the nonsense

Michael Diaz4 said:And he killed off the never-mourned Jacques Villeneuve😢

If he was "never mourned," it implies you actually watched him drive and enjoyed it—which means you've been following Formula 1 for a long time. Which brings us back to the idea that you might actually have something to teach me after all those years of watching. Unfortunately, that’s where any further logical reasoning fails in your case. 🙂

Luckily, the Americans managed to stop a dominant Syria from attacking the USA! 😲

Michael Diaz4 said:If Michael Schumacher had been driving a car like this back in the day, he would've walked away with those titles instead of Mika Hakkinen... Fernando Alonso just isn't in that league...

And if Giancarlo Baghetti had driven it...

Michael Diaz4 said:... but right now, Ferrari has the most convincingly fast car on the grid...

Wow, you're really painting a rosy picture here.

Michael Diaz4 said:... and then they just fade away because of mediocrity and bad strategy... Now the tactics killed him too, since he got stuck behind Sergio di Resta and wasn't allowed to make a move...

Another "wow." Meanwhile, I was sitting here thinking his strategy was actually spot on. And that he drove a hell of a race.

Michael Diaz4 said:haha, keep telling yourself that...

This is getting ridiculous. Honestly, I’m just wondering who sent you here to waste everyone's time in this supposedly honest forum.

swifttiger75 said:If you haven't felt bad for him, it means you were watching and actually enjoying his drives. Which implies you've been following Formula 1 for a long time. That leads us back to the idea that you might have learned something from all those years of watching. Unfortunately, that's where any logical reasoning on your part hits a dead end. 🙂

All of this should have been written in the conditional tense.
So,
he could have been watching,
he could have been enjoying it,
he could have been following along,
he could have learned something...

Alonso blinded Mark Webber just a little bit, and the penalty was handed out immediately.
Honestly, imagine how many penalties would be handed out if someone pulled something like this today:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Cykz...17A694ED7D48CF

It’s honestly wild how every single damn thread ends up turning into a Fernando Alonso fan club

ruggedhawk20 said:it is truly unbelievable how every single damn thread eventually devolves into nothing but Fernando Alonso worshipers.

🤣
Is that really all they have to talk about? If this is the extent of their passion, I can only imagine what kind of chaos we will face next season...

Tyler Bennett5 said:Alonso blinded Webber slightly and the penalty was instant.
How many penalties would we see if someone pulled something like this today:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Cykz...17A694ED7D48CF

Seriously, they're overdoing it. They're killing the soul of the sport—it used to be a mosaic of incredible moments for decades.

Good point, Tyler Bennett5. 👍