Best protein powders for muscle gain?

What do you mean it doesn't say? It’s right there in the product description—CFM protein. That's just shorthand for cross-flow microfiltration, which is basically the process used to isolate the protein—I think I mentioned how that works in some of my older posts anyway.

The part that actually feels sketchy to me is the labeling—it claims there's no soy in the ingredients list, yet soy is explicitly listed under the allergen warnings. 😕

From what I can gather, Microsoft is essentially the same as Biotech, and if I recall correctly, Biotech wasn't exactly top-tier stuff about ten years ago. Maybe they rebranded because of that... maybe they've actually stepped up their game since then... who knows. Honestly, I’ve never personally touched those proteins, and while I haven't heard much praise for them, I have heard plenty of complaints. If you're looking for my two cents, I probably wouldn't bother—there are plenty of other brands out there at roughly the same price point.

slydriver52 said:Let me say this one more time.
Microsoft is a brand, and I honestly have no clue which specific proteins you’ve actually tried from either Microsoft or Optimum Nutrition to justify your claims about what makes one better than the other.

Look, I never said Microsoft wasn't a brand 🤷; obviously, Optimum Nutrition is too. My point was based on my own personal experience using both, plus there are plenty of reviews online to back up what I'm saying.

slydriver52 said:When it comes to this specific product, I can only say you get what you pay for. First off, Whey Protein Concentrate 80% is listed as the primary ingredient followed by isolate, which usually means there's way more concentrate than isolate in the mix. Since the label doesn't explicitly state the exact percentages, there could be nothing more than traces of isolate in there. Plus, I don't see any mention of the processing method on the label, which is crucial. If high heat was used during processing, you're looking at a much higher percentage of denatured proteins.
Keep one thing in mind: raw material costs are constantly climbing, so it’s impossible to find a high-quality product at rock-bottom prices. You get what you pay for here, plain and simple. Sure, it's perfectly fine for casual lifters, but if you actually have the luxury of choice, I wouldn't recommend it.

http://www.fitness.com/shop/supplements...-3G-2268g.aspx

Sorry, but you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. If you honestly believe that a tub containing more isolate than concentrate is going to build more muscle compared to a tub of concentrate, then you don't know the first thing about bodybuilding, supplements, or protein in general. Just grab the cheapest protein available; whether it's isolate or concentrate makes almost zero difference—concentrate just has a bit more lactose, that's it. Gold Standard Whey from Optimum Nutrition might taste slightly better and mix a bit smoother, and Microsoft's 3G has more concentrate than isolate, but the ratio is right there on the box, so don't go spreading misinformation unless you've actually held the container in your hands. I've been in this scene too long to sit here and read through such nonsense.

Justin Harris12 said:Look, you clearly don't get it. If you think a tub with more isolate than concentrate is going to build more muscle than one with mostly concentrate, you have no clue how supplements actually work. Just grab the cheapest protein available. It barely matters if it's isolate or concentrate... concentrate just has a bit more lactose, that's it. Gold Standard Whey from Optimum Nutrition tastes better and mixes easier, sure. And the Microsoft stuff has more concentrate than isolate, but the label literally states the ratio, so unless you're looking at the tub right now, don't spread misinformation. I've been doing this too long to deal with nonsense like this.

There's some truth there, but don't just buy the absolute cheapest junk on the shelf. Stick to a reputable brand...

jadedrifter2 said:How can you say it isn't listed? The product description explicitly mentions CFM protein, which stands for cross-flow microfiltration—the specific process used to isolate the protein. I've already broken this down in my previous posts.

What strikes me as suspicious is the labeling; the declaration claims it’s soy-free, yet they list soy right there under the allergen warnings.😕

From what I can tell, Microsoft is essentially just Biotech, and let's be honest, Biotech wasn't exactly top-tier a decade ago. Maybe they rebranded to shake off the old reputation, or maybe they actually improved their formula... who knows. Regardless, I've never touched their stuff and I haven't heard anyone singing its praises—quite the opposite, actually. If you want my honest take? Skip them. There are plenty of other brands on the market at basically the same price point.

Right, CFM is mentioned, but that likely refers to the isolate present in trace amounts. My concern is the concentrate, which I assume is Whey Protein Concentrate 80%. This is Biotech territory, and having used their Pro Whey over my 15 years of training, I can't recommend it—not even for the flavor.

Justin Harris12 said:Look, you clearly don't know what you're talking about. If you actually believe a tub containing more isolate than concentrate is going to build more muscle than a tub of concentrate versus isolate, then you have zero clue how bodybuilding, supplements, or protein works. Just grab the cheapest protein available; there’s virtually no difference between isolate and concentrate. Concentrate just has a bit more lactose, that's it. Gold Standard Whey from Optimum Nutrition tastes a bit better and mixes easier. Three grams of Microsoft has more concentrate than isolate, but since the label lists the ratios, you aren't telling the truth unless you've actually seen the box in person. Stop spreading misinformation; I've been in this game too long to deal with this kind of nonsense.

Spare me the comments. If you can't argue with actual facts, don't bother posting. Exactly where on the packaging does it specify the ratio of concentrate (Whey Protein Concentrate 80%) to isolate (CFM)?
If it's clearly listed, then I'm wrong—but please, point it out on the label because I'm genuinely curious. I don't recall seeing that information when I used it.
I never said anyone should avoid the product, but tell me: where does that specific brand even sell well in the States? I also used their creatine monohydrate, which did absolutely nothing for me, whereas everything went back to normal once I switched to Optimum Nutrition. Depending on the quality, whey isolate has almost no lactose and lower fat and ash content, but I never claimed it was inherently a superior choice over concentrate. Concentrate has its advantages, but the real question is exactly which type of concentrate is inside that specific product's package. As far as I know, raw materials from New Zealand represent some of the best stuff on the market. Why don't you send an inquiry directly to Microsoft and ask them whose raw materials they actually use for Pro Whey.

Justin Harris12 said:I didn't say Microsoft wasn't a brand🤷 , and Optimum is a brand; I simply reached my conclusion based on using both, and there are plenty of reviews online.

You've completely misunderstood me...
You stated that Microsoft is a good protein, but since Microsoft offers Pro Whey, Iso Muscle 94, Iso Muscle 100, and slow-release protein, your statement is pretty vague.

On a side note, whey concentrate is even used in alternative medicine—something we've discussed before—but obviously, they aren't using Pro Whey or Gold Standard Whey for that. They use verified concentrate derived exclusively from raw milk from grass-fed cows that aren't pumped with artificial feed premixes.🙂Such concentrate is quite expensive, especially when utilized in specific therapies, and it isn't even in the same league as the stuff we consume daily.

slydriver52 said:Beyond fitness, whey concentrate is actually used in alternative medicine—something we’ve touched on before... but obviously, they aren't using stuff like Pro Whey or Gold Standard Whey for that. Instead, it’s strictly high-grade concentrate sourced from raw milk, coming from cows that graze on open pastures rather than being fed all sorts of synthetic additives🙂. That kind of premium concentrate is pretty pricey, especially when it's part of specific medical therapies, so you really can't even compare it to the supplements we're using day-to-day
.

True, Optimum Nutrition isn't exactly vetted for that sort of thing...

You’re getting a little carried away here, but you're spreading half-truths—which is what beginners usually do when they think they've figured everything out. Please, do yourself a favor and actually study supplement science. These aren't some magic potions that turn you into Arnold Schwarzenegger overnight; they are just dietary supplements. Honestly, the difference between an isolate and a concentrate is negligible for most people. The fat content in concentrates is practically nonexistent, so I don't see why you're even bringing it up. A 3g serving is perfectly fine for a solid, budget-friendly protein choice.

I’ve used their creatine and it works for me, so you're the first person I've heard claim that Microsoft creatine doesn't do anything (though there are always people who report that creatine doesn't work for them at all—if that's your case, just quit taking it).

It's pretty interesting that Optimum Nutrition's Gold Standard Whey actually contains aspartame and GMOs.😁
Meanwhile, with Microsoft proteins (that Canadian company), the label explicitly states they are non-GMO.

Justin Harris12 said:You’re overreaching here, but you're doing it with half-truths—a classic amateur move. You think you're right, but please, do some actual homework on supplements. They aren't magic potions that turn you into Arnold; they are dietary supplements. At the end of the day, isolate vs. concentrate is practically a wash; the fat content in concentrates is negligible, so there's zero point in bringing it up. Three grams is just a decent, cheap protein source.

I've used their creatine and it works for me, so you're the first person I've heard say Microsoft creatine doesn't work (though some people do report zero results; if that's you, just quit taking it).

It's interesting that Gold Standard Whey from Optimum Nutrition contains aspartame and GMOs.😁
Meanwhile, on Microsoft proteins (a Canadian firm), the box explicitly states they are non-GMO.

"Overreaching with half-truths," "aspartame"? How old are you? Eighteen and just discovering what a supplement is?
Come on, where is the data regarding the quality of Pro Whey? You have a golden opportunity to debunk me... The creatine definitely wasn't good. As I said, everything with Optimum was fine regarding the creatine.
And you still haven't explained how you personally judge protein quality.

Richard Fox7 said:Yeah, Optimum isn't exactly vetted...

So, you're one of those people who thinks Optimum is top-tier?
I hate to disappoint you, but I've spoken with industry insiders who deal in wholesale supplements, and they find it baffling why people in the States are constantly hunting for Gold Standard Whey. Mark my words: your opinion will shift once we see more major US brands becoming the standard. Also, you completely missed my point entirely...

jadedrifter2 said:What bugs me is how the label says "soy-free" right on the front, but then lists soy under the allergen warnings. Makes zero sense. 😕

It’s usually just facilities that pack other proteins too, like soy. It probably only has trace amounts, but whatever, they gotta put it on the label...

slydriver52 said:"Spreading half-truths," "aspartame"? How old are you, eighteen? Just starting to discover supplements?
Come on, where's the actual data regarding the quality of the Optimum Nutrition? You have a golden opportunity here to debunk me if you can...........The creatine was definitely not the issue. Like I said before, everything with the Optimum Nutrition creatine was perfectly fine.
And you still haven't explained how you personally judge protein quality?

You know what? I didn't come here to get into a heated back-and-forth with you; you're just exhausting. I came here to actually help someone out, but it's clear you don't have a clue about anything. Especially when you started implying that an isolate is going to magically pack on muscle, or claiming that creatine monohydrate—which is chemically identical whether it's from Optimum Nutrition or MVP—doesn't work for you. Honestly, I usually avoid high-maintenance people like this, so my mistake was even bothering to reply to you in the first place. I'm done; you clearly don't know anything and you're far too stubborn to learn a single thing. 🙄

slydriver52 said:Yeah, I think they're talking about CFM, but that probably just refers to the isolate traces in there. My focus is on the concentrate—I'm assuming it's Whey Protein Concentrate 80%. It's from Biogen, and honestly, after fifteen years of trying basically everything on the market, I can't say much good things about their Optimum Nutrition line, least of all the flavor.

You're getting the basics mixed up—CFM is just the processing method. It doesn't matter if you're dealing with concentrate, isolate, or hydrolysate.

cosmicscout9 said:Usually, it's just because they use the same facilities for packaging other stuff, like soy protein. There's likely only trace amounts left, but hey, they have to put it on the label...

If it's truly just trace amounts, it wouldn't trigger an allergic reaction—if it doesn't cause one, it isn't an allergen.

jadedrifter2 said:The guy is confusing basic terminology. CFM is just a manufacturing process; it has nothing to do with whether you're looking at a concentrate, an isolate, or a hydrolysate.

If we're talking about trace amounts, it wouldn't trigger an allergic reaction—in which case, it isn't an allergen.

As far as I know, CFM is the specific technology used to produce whey isolate. It’s also a broader term. And no, I am not "confusing basic terminology."
The man completely misinterpreted the label. It clearly states it contains no soy protein. Soy lecithin is a different animal entirely.

Justin Harris12 said:Look, you know what? I didn't come here to get into a shouting match with you. You're exhausting. I stepped in to help someone out, only to realize you don't have a clue what you're talking about. Especially when you suggested an isolate would magically pack on more muscle, or claimed that creatine monohydrate—which is chemically identical whether you buy Optimum Nutrition or MuscleTech—doesn't work. Generally, I steer clear of high-maintenance people. That was my mistake, thinking I could actually engage with you. I'm done. You're clueless and too stubborn to learn anything. 🙄

🤣🤣🤣
Where are your actual arguments? And where did I ever say someone would progress better using an isolate? Kid, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about...
Feel free to try and "educate" me on nutrition, supplements, or training methodologies. Send me a DM, and maybe we can meet up at the local XXL gym where I train.
I have nothing against you personally, but I’m "exhausting" because sports nutrition and training protocols are incredibly complex. You can't just tell someone "buy Optimum Nutrition because it's great"—that's a hollow statement that explains absolutely nothing.

So, I’ve got a question about my post-workout meal—my PWM... basically, I’m torn between making my own DIY version versus just buying those pre-made mass gainers you see everywhere.
Here’s the deal with my homemade setup: I take a scoop of Whey Protein Concentrate 80%, roughly 30 grams, and mix it in with some Glucose—you know, that grape sugar stuff you can grab at Walmart. I think anyone who knows their nutrition gets what I'm talking about. Anyway, I usually go with a 1:2 ratio, so for every 30 grams of protein, I’m tossing in 60 grams of sugar. My big worry here is that it feels like a massive amount of sugar. Just think about it—if I’m hitting the gym every other day, that’s like 900 grams of sugar hitting my system in a month! That’s practically a whole pound of sugar! I’m wondering if there’s any actual danger in slamming this much sugar into my body—like, am I going to spike my blood sugar through the roof or, God forbid, end up with diabetes down the road?

On top of that, I’ve been looking at these commercial gainers and noticed something weird:
Take this specific gainer, for example:
The carb count is insane—we're talking 168 grams in a single serving—BUT what blows my mind is that there's only like 8 grams of sugar in there?!? So, now I'm sitting here wondering, if it isn't sugar, what the hell are those other 160 grams of carbs made of? I always assumed the bulk of a gainer was just pure sugar, but clearly, that's not the case. Everyone used to tell me, "Why bother with a gainer? It's nothing but sugar..." but apparently, they were wrong.
Look, we see a similar ratio here too, where the sugar is super low:
And the same thing goes for this one:
So, bottom line: is it actually better to drink something like this, since the sugar content is way lower than my homemade PWM consisting of whey and glucose?

What’s the deal with this stuff? I noticed they’re tossing in three different types of sugar here, which honestly makes me wonder—if they're being this extra about it, what on earth are they putting in those mass gainers where the sugar count looks tiny but the total carbs are through the roof? Why bother mixing Glucose, fructose, and sucrose all together? Aren't they basically just doing the same thing anyway? I mean, isn't sucrose literally just glucose and fructose mashed together... right?

http://www.optimumnutrition.com/prod...ery-p-252.html

Glucose falls under the category of simple carbs—the kind that trigger a massive insulin spike because they give you that sudden, short-lived burst of energy. Ideally, you’d want to consume those right before a workout or maybe during one if things are getting pretty intense. Once the session is over, though, you should probably pivot toward complex carbohydrates—think whole grains—to provide a steady, long-term energy supply to the body

Personally, I don't see much point in buying mass gainers. Carbs are cheap and easy enough to get from regular food... but hey, if money is no object for you, go ahead and buy them

So, I mentioned before that I usually just DIY my own protein weight gainer using some Whey Protein Concentrate 80% and a bunch of Glucose, but honestly? The sheer amount of sugar I’m slamming into my system like that is starting to freak me out a little. It got me thinking—so I actually started digging into the ingredient labels on those commercial mass gainers you see at places like Walmart—and what jumped out at me was how they all have massive amounts of carbs but surprisingly low sugar levels. It made me wonder, if it isn't just straight-up sugar, what the hell are they actually using for the carb source in these things? I mean, clearly it isn't just simple sugars... so I'm curious, what else can you even pack in there besides sugar?
Regarding grains—specifically oats—I eat those every single morning for breakfast, but I don't ever throw them in my shaker when I'm mixing up my homemade stuff... so yeah, I'm really just trying to figure out what companies are dumping into these gainers to hit those carb counts since they never explicitly say what it is... all we know for sure is that it isn't sugar.

jadedrifter2 said:if it's just traces, it shouldn't trigger an allergy—so it's not an allergen

Look, some people are insanely allergic and even a tiny amount can trigger a reaction. They might not choke out from such a small dose, but a reaction is still possible. That’s exactly why you have to list it.

jadedrifter2 said:Sugars fall under simple carbohydrates, which trigger a massive insulin spike because they cause a sudden, short-lived energy surge. You should drink them right before a workout or during one (if the intensity is high enough). After training, you ought to opt for complex carbohydrates that provide steady, long-lasting fuel—think whole grains.

Personally, I don't see the point in buying mass gainers. Carbs are cheap and easy to get from regular food... but if you have money to burn, go ahead and buy them.

No, drinking simple sugars before a workout is definitely not recommended, especially if your stomach is already churning from a previous meal.
There’s also no reason to rely solely on pure monosaccharides during training, particularly during heavy weightlifting sessions at the gym. Glucose, for instance, has high osmolality, meaning it can heavily tax your stomach if you consume too much at once. A blend of different carb sources is always the superior solution...
Post-workout, it's better to eat a solid meal with a small amount of fat. For example, you could have white bread (toasted is best) paired with chicken, turkey, or egg whites.
The product mentioned here contains sucrose, which isn't a monosaccharide, along with starch, which isn't a monosaccharide either.