Overrated athletes?

Carl Mendoza4 said:I was pulling for Golden State🤦

Me? I'm a Knicks fan.
You want to talk about frustration? Every single time Jordan showed up at Madison Square Garden, it felt like a total assault on my sanity.
As for those Rockets and that Game 7 in the finals... honestly, I've just repressed those memories entirely.😁

rowdytinker3 said:Look, I honestly couldn't care less about the media hype, his PR machine, or his personal life. I only care about those 48 minutes on the court. And in that timeframe, the man is simply incomparable. Period. I'm done talking about it.

The topic is literally titled "Overhyped sports personalities." That’s a much broader concept than just the 48 minutes of gameplay you're focusing on, wouldn't you agree?😉

frozentiger6 said:When you talk about Jordan, you can't just ignore those chunky Delta Air Lines era sneakers 🙏 🙏 🙏

That's just classic American marketing for you... at the end of the day, they can sell anything to anyone if they spin it right.

Half my middle school buddies were rocking those Shaquille O'Neal backpacks.
Man, honestly, Jordan deserved more of that spotlight 😁

Carl Mendoza4 said:there's just this one "subtle" little detail though. without Jordan, they've got zero titles. with him, it's six.

Yeah, without Scottie Pippen 0 titles, but with him, it's six. ☕

Pippen 0? Are you talking about the guy who claimed Toni Kukoč couldn't even guard a folding chair? 😁

And honestly, why isn't anyone here even mentioning Toni Kukoč? 😁

He was easily one of the top six players in the NBA. 🙏 😁

rowdytinker3, forget your opinion—the reality is that nobody outside of Hollywood would have ever heard of those babies if they weren't playing in the States.

Jason Fisher78 said:Because obviously, you can't just force anyone to win a championship whenever you feel like it.

The whole thing is that they all reached those titles by helping each other out. It wasn't just everyone else riding on Jordan's coattails. When the supporting cast wasn't clicking—especially within Jackson's triangle offense where Jordan really thrived—the championships stopped coming. Just like how those guys wouldn't have achieved anything without Jordan, Jordan wouldn't have won a damn thing without them. Simple as that. It proves Jordan wasn't some "one-man show."

The question itself is flawed. Which stats are we even talking about? But looking at the big picture beyond just the playoffs: Wilt Chamberlain, Oscar Robertson, Bill Russell, Magic Johnson, and in certain categories, even Larry Bird and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. Personally, I think everyone on that list except for Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is better than Jordan.

And who was actually the best player on the Chicago Bulls in '91, '92, '93, '96, '97, and '98?

Carl Mendoza4 said:I mean, there’s really no point talking to you since you view everything through stats. You just end up creating this weird circular logic loop—claiming they played better without Jordan because their numbers were higher (even though the numbers were higher because they had to carry the load without him).

First off, I wasn't even the one who brought up the stats; you guys just demanded I provide at least one actual argument. So fine, here’s as much as you can handle. Secondly, how else am I supposed to look at it if not through the data? And thirdly, if you think you're so smart, go ahead and try to debunk my points. ☕

rowdytinker3 said:So, who would you say was actually the best player on the Chicago Bulls during those championship years—'91, '92, '93, '96, '97, and '98?

M. hype

Jason Fisher78 said:Without Pippen 0, they have zero titles; with him, they have six. ☕

Pippen was an incredible player, yet he remains completely overlooked even today. Look at Kobe Bryant—he managed to secure championships even without Shaquille O'Neal. The real question is whether Michael Jordan could have actually pulled it off without Pippen.

Jason Fisher78 said:Look, I wasn't the one who started throwing stats around; you guys were the ones demanding I bring at least one solid argument to the table. So, here they are—take them or leave them. And honestly, how else am I supposed to analyze this if not through the numbers? If anyone can actually debunk my points, go ahead, I'm listening. ☕

Listen, we're done here.
Go enjoy your little bubble of traditionalist basketball. 👋

frozentiger6 said:Pippen? You mean the guy who claimed Toni Kukoč couldn't even guard a folding chair? 😁

And why is nobody here even mentioning Toni Kukoč? 😁

The best sixth man in the NBA, period. 🙏 😁

rowdytinker3, screw your opinion. The fact is, nobody outside the States would ever hear about those babies if it wasn't for Hollywood.

Anyone actually interested in baseball would definitely know who he is.

darkpilot9 said:Scottie Pippen was an incredible player, but he just stays in the shadows even now. I mean, Kobe managed to grab rings without Shaquille O'Neal, so it makes you wonder if Michael Jordan could have actually pulled it off without Pippen.

I mean, obviously not, at least not until Pippen joined the squad.

darkpilot9 said:Pippen was an incredible player, but people just totally overlook him even now. Kobe managed to pull off championships without Shaquille O'Neal, so it makes you wonder if Michael Jordan could have actually done it without Scottie Pippen.

Until they brought in Pau Gasol, he didn't win squat. Honestly, Gasol is the one who really pushed him over the edge.☕

Mark Wahlberg

What on earth is this snowboarder talking about? It’s absolute nonsense.😂🙏

He actually thinks Bird, Johnson, and Chamberlain are better than Jordan.🤣🤣🤣

Jack Murphy5 said:Man, this snowboarder guy is talking absolute nonsense... it's painful to watch.😂🙏

He’s actually out here claiming Bird, Johnson, and Chamberlain were better than Jordan... seriously?🤣🤣🤣

Look, if this guy was actually critiquing Jordan's stats instead of just riding the Media hype wave, maybe we'd have a real conversation. But as it stands? This whole thread has just been three hours of people flailing around and swinging wildly at nothing... just pure chaos...

rowdytinker3 said:So the whole argument boils down to those 50 points at the dunk contest in Chicago, right? When he scored 50 on a free-throw dunk and basically stepped over the line... just pure Media hype🙏🙏 I mean, honestly, if I’m being real here, he probably shouldn't have even gotten those 50 points—he only pulled it off because he was the home-court favorite.

Everyone knows that, and it's pretty much considered the biggest robbery in the history of dunk contests. I guess Jordan could dunk, sure, but Wilkins was better. In my opinion, Dominique Wilkins is easily the greatest dunker ever, and honestly, I’d even put Clyde "The Glyde" Drexler ahead of Jordan.

darkpilot9 said:How could you possibly forget those old NBA broadcasts?

It’s impossible to forget them. My only regret is all the morning classes I skipped because I was glued to the TV late into the night. And let's not forget how Cvik would often have neven Bertičević sitting next to him as a color commentator. That guy was basically a walking encyclopedia of NBA / ATP stats. Honestly, he was like having the entire internet at your fingertips before the internet even existed.

Jason Fisher78 said:The question itself is a bit flawed. Which specific stat are we looking at? But if we just speak broadly beyond the playoffs: you've got Wilt Chamberlain, Oscar Robertson, Bill Russell, Magic Johnson, and in certain categories, even Larry Bird and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. Personally, I think everyone on that list except Abdul-Jabbar was better than Jordan.

Maybe we should shift the focus of this whole conversation. It reminds me of what Isiah Thomas once implied—that without his racial identity, he might have just been an average player.

Ryan Vaughn7 said:Maybe we should switch up the protagonist of this whole saga? I mean, like what Isiah Thomas once implied—that if he weren't white, he’d probably just be some average ball player.

That’s basically what started Rodman claiming Bird was being forced into the spotlight, and then Isiah Thomas kept the momentum going. But honestly, that might not even be true. It actually isn't. I mean, considering how physically outmatched Larry Bird was compared to the elite Black athletes in the league, he was still playing right up there among the best. Just imagine if he actually had that kind of Black athleticism and verticality? Maybe he really would've been the greatest ever if he'd been Black.