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Diet changes: Will they actually change my weight?

Started by Peter Morris58 · · 👁 9 views · 122 replies

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Participants Peter Morris58mistybear4nimbledriver81Ashley Nguyen5Keith Doyle18northernfalcon30Donna Hernandez10Frank Alvarez8Anthony Harris14David Davis26electriclynx20Kenneth Price8fadedtrucker19Steven Kelly152Brandon Booth6Jose Miller3rustymoose54darkbison81Kenneth Hernandez67Megan Morales5Hannah Davis18Douglas Hernandez4
mistybear4 mistybear4 Active Member
58 messages
joined Nov 2007
#61 ·
Susan Gomez33 said:Just a little more regarding the organic side of things... 😉

"Mark Hughes, Herbalife's Founder, unknown
Mark Hughes, Herbalife's Founder, unknown
Stephen Barrett

In May 2002, Herbalife founder, chairman, and chief executive officer Mark Reynold Hughes, was found dead at his $27 million oceanfront mansion in Malibu, California. In a series of articles about the death, David Evans (Bloomberg News) reported:

Hughes died after a 4-day drinking binge, apparently from an overdose of alcohol and the antidepressant drug doxepin.
His blood alcohol level was 0.21% (more than double the "drunk driving" level).
He was being treated by a psychiatrist for a drinking problem.
Hughes said many times that he had been inspired to start his company after his mother (Jo Ann Hartman) died from taking diet pills. However, unknown
This article was posted on December 17, 2004.

I'm glad this topic caught your eye. 😁

News outlets can spin just about anything—which I suppose is their job—but the reality is that Mark Hughes (the guy who started Herbalife) ended up poisoned during one of those massive parties he used to throw at his place in Malibu, California, back in 2000. It isn't exactly hard to guess who might have wanted him out of the way; he was a thorn in the side of quite a few people. 😕
The way people try to label someone as crazy just because they had a vision back in the early 80s when Herbalife was born, or simply because they believed nutrition was linked to overall health—it’s all pretty predictable. Honestly, that's a concept most people accept as common sense nowadays, so I don't see what the big deal is. 😁

His whole reason for starting Herbalife was to make sure nobody else suffered through dangerous diets like his mother, Jo Ann Hartman, did. She was an actress who was constantly trying to maintain a certain look through various diets, eventually passing away at 36 due to a bad reaction to some medications. 😢
For a slightly softer version of the story, you can check here:

http://www.nrg-fit.com/herbalife_prica.asp

Got any other "arguments" to throw out? 😁
Steven Kelly152 Steven Kelly152 Newcomer
7 messages
joined Dec 2004
#62 ·
Rachel Brooks63 said:nimbledriver81 is stealing, he's straight up stealing!!!!!! Help!

Sorry, lady, 🙏from here on out, I guess I'll just write everything as "copy by Rachel Brooks63" 😁
mistybear4 mistybear4 Active Member
58 messages
joined Nov 2007
#63 ·
nimbledriver81 said:🤣 Honestly, I couldn't care less... whether you agree with me or not is irrelevant.

haha, I just wanted to let you know that I actually respect anyone who puts in the effort to explain themselves here, rather than just picking fights for the sake of it.. 😉

you don't look quite as "ugly" as you seem to be, either.. 😁
Steven Kelly152 Steven Kelly152 Newcomer
7 messages
joined Dec 2004
#64 ·
mistybear4 said:Got any more "arguments" you want to throw out there? .. 😁

There's really only one truth here. 😁

Do you guys have some kind of psych ward over there? Because this is getting ridiculous... conspiracies against Herbalife, secret societies... Freemasonry... 😲

Look, buddy, you couldn't interest me if you tried. I'm just sitting here wondering how people can be this incredibly dense. Honestly, just try to remember what Einstein said about it all.
nimbledriver81 nimbledriver81 Active Member
96 messages
joined Aug 2007
#65 ·
mistybear4 said:Haha, I just wanted to let you know that I actually value people putting in the effort to explain things—you know, instead of just picking fights... 😉

And honestly? You aren't even as "ugly as you look." 😁

😂 😂 😂 Compared to you, I'm basically Miss Universe. Or maybe Einstein. Just pick whichever one sounds more impressive to you!
Peter Morris58 Peter Morris58 MemberOP
32 messages
joined Mar 2003
#66 ·
nimbledriver81 said:You're not eating enough protein.
How's your clothes fitting? Still the same width? You might've burned some fat and built up muscle. Muscle is way denser than fat, so even if the scale hasn't moved, your body composition probably improved.

Clothes fit exactly the same. 😢
Peter Morris58 Peter Morris58 MemberOP
32 messages
joined Mar 2003
#67 ·
You guys totally ruined my thread 😢
mistybear4 mistybear4 Active Member
58 messages
joined Nov 2007
#68 ·
Rachel Brooks63 said:YOU DON'T EVEN UNDERSTAND BASIC CHEMISTRY, LIKE SEVENTH GRADE MATERIAL!!!!!!!!

Did someone's ego just get a little too loud? .. very nice .. 😁

Rachel Brooks63 said:Did you even finish middle school? You definitely didn't finish high school, because any high school chemistry teacher would feel terrible knowing one of their students doesn't know it's Nitric Oxide, not N.O. !!!!!!!!!!
What is N.O.????? Nitric Oxide? Is there some specific way to say it in American English? Do you have a textbook on this? You don't even know how to spell a chemical compound, which just shows you don't know how to write anything at all!!!!!!!!!1

You’re being ridiculous; I didn't write N.O. to label a specific compound, I was just using it as an abbreviation... and I honestly don't get why you're getting so worked up... 😕
As for NO (thanks so much for pointing out my lack of periods 😁 ), I just know what I read here:

http://www.nrg-fit.com/luis_ignnaro.asp

along with some extra explanations I heard during a lecture by Dr. Luis Ignarro....
It's perfectly normal that I don't grasp half of it yet—given my background on the subject—but that doesn't mean I haven't caught the general point...
All that knowledge you think you have right now isn't worth even 0.1% of what I actually HAVE, which is a product that can actually help someone, so save the arrogance for someone else; you aren't impressing me with all this posturing.. 😎

Rachel Brooks63 said:>EVERYONE, DON'T READ WHAT THIS FRAUD IS WRITING, HE HAS NO CLUE WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT!!!!


haha, why all the hysterics? 😁
Sure, if you don't believe me, go ahead and read it yourself here:

http://www.weightlossline.com/heart/niteworks.html

http://www.niteworksinfo.com/

👋
fadedtrucker19 fadedtrucker19 Member
31 messages
joined Dec 2002
#69 ·
mistybear4 said:Look, this isn't actually about the multi-level marketing aspect of things. I’m simply sharing information about stuff that can genuinely help people; whether you decide to pick it up at a local health food store or buy it from some distributor is, quite frankly, the least important part of this entire conversation. What really matters—the absolute crux of the matter—is recognizing that natural, plant-based products often leave a far more positive impact on your overall health than conventional pharmaceuticals ever could. 🙂

I have no idea what kind of scientific definition someone would use to claim that anything emerging from a laboratory is "natural," but I'll leave that particular debate for another time.

When it comes to preventing disease, medications are a complete non-starter; conversely, when you're actually trying to treat an illness, dietary supplements aren't exactly sufficient either. I mean, they might be, but you probably won't see particularly high survival rates—not that anyone would call a patient who doesn't survive "unserious."
I can't track down the actual original paperwork at the moment—it’s been far too many years since this all went down—but I do recall that back in 1984, when they first started manufacturing Omega-3, the pharmaceutical industry actually took Herbalife to a US court. They sued over alleged "slander," "falsehoods," and the spreading of "misinformation" regarding Omega-3 and its supposed benefits for human health. Ultimately, the court ruled against them, slapping Herbalife with a $750,000 fine. They paid up, of course, and simply moved on with their business; at that stage, they were just too small to go toe-to-toe in a fair fight with the big players.

A classic semantic dodge: they’re just shifting the goalposts to avoid the actual issue.

Even with all that taken into account, I still fail to see how they could possibly be "just like me." Or, more accurately, I have no idea what on earth makes me "just like them."

On the contrary, there might actually be some legitimate science backing those Herbalife products... though I'm certainly not looking to start a debate about it.
One thing is absolutely certain: their distribution model is both incompetent—just look at my own experience—and outright predatory, given that it's a classic multi-level marketing scheme.
Buying products from someone who clearly doesn't know what they're talking about is a massive sticking point for a lot of people—especially those with egos far larger than their actual knowledge. They’d much rather walk straight into a local pharmacy and let some "expert" sell them absolute poison instead. 😁

Hmm...

Let’s get together for some cookies sometime... I just need to swing by the pharmacy first.

You know, you actually have some pretty brilliant ideas every once in a while... 😁
My take on this whole business is that I actually possess a modicum of understanding regarding how all of this works.

🤣

It’s quite clear just how much you actually know...
Honestly, everything I know right now would be far too much for someone like you to wrap their head around.

Yeah. I'll admit it.

I honestly can't stand it; it’s just far too much. It is quite simply too moronic, too illiterate, and too utterly illogical—all while being suffocated by an absurdly excessive amount of marketing.
Honestly, you don't even need a basic grasp of chemistry to pull this job off.

They clearly lack even a basic grasp of nutrition science, let alone biology or any fundamental understanding of how the human body actually functions—though, I suppose those fall under the same umbrella of ignorance mentioned previously.
It seems like I’m out here trying to convince people of something, but honestly, I’m really just defending myself against these mindless, baseless attacks from individuals who possess plenty of theoretical knowledge yet lack even the slightest ability to actually apply it in the real world.

And what exactly makes you think my critiques lack substance?

And how exactly am I supposed to defend myself against those kinds of attacks if I don't possess the very knowledge you claim isn't even necessary?

You aren't actually making any arguments to support your claims.
Don't mention it.

It’s honestly quite fascinating how you manage to live under the unshakable delusion that we’re all just complete idiots wandering around without a clue, while you alone sit there as the sole arbiter of intellect.
What kind of logic is that, really? It’s the sort of circular reasoning where someone assumes a place must be legitimate simply because it carries the name of the man who started the whole thing—in this case, the "Mark Hughes Cellular & Molecular Nutrition Lab."

That’s just lovely.

So, what, you think I actually work at that Molecular Nutrition lab?

My dear friend, you clearly lack the basic ability to even read research findings, let alone attempt to interpret them.

Even if you claim it’s the greatest laboratory in the entire universe, what does that actually matter if you’re still out here perceiving the whole thing as nothing more than magic?
Look, let’s be clear: Dr. David Heber is a scientist, plain and simple. He isn't some peddler out there trying to move product on street corners; his presence at Herbalife is purely strategic. He's there because Herbalife is the undisputed leader in the field, providing him with the ultimate global platform to expand his nutritional research on a massive scale. That mission—to push the boundaries of nutritional science worldwide—is exactly what Louis Ignarro and the rest of the top-tier experts (we're talking a group of 160 to 170 world-class specialists) are actually striving to achieve.

Hmm...

I would have asked you for your email address, but I can’t fathom why any top-tier scientist would bother providing a detailed response to an inbox cluttered with nothing but your nonsensical translations...

I’d honestly love to compile every single one of your dietary claims, chronologically, just to toss them right in their faces—but let’s be real: I’d probably never get a response anyway.
Or perhaps I should say, "it says right here in my book, which you can snag for the bargain price of $299.99."
Look, Herbalife isn't some miracle drug—it's just food. Once you finally grasp that distinction, you might actually be able to start thinking about this whole thing in a somewhat constructive manner.

Look, I’m not even suggesting that Herbalife is some kind of medical miracle or a legitimate pharmaceutical.
That was actually your own statement; you claimed you could step in and help people battling cancer, diabetes, and all that other stuff.

I’m merely offering a commentary on your assertions.
Despite the overwhelming influence held by Big Pharma, Herbalife makes a concerted effort to explain that through proper nutrition, people can actually take their health into their own hands—rather than just sitting around waiting on the mercy of a doctor or languishing on a six-month waiting list for a single appointment.

So, I suppose we should all just sit back and relax, because apparently, Herbalife is going to step in and fix the entire American healthcare system next.
The body is this perfect little machine, and if you feed it properly, it’ll run like a dream,

it’ll just start churning out antibodies against every possible ailment, becoming essentially immune to cancer like a Great White shark—because, obviously, we all know sharks survive solely on Herbalife shakes instead of actual prey, and then everything will be wonderful, a total utopia, and life will be so incredibly fantastic that I might actually pee myself from pure joy.
but even if that isn't the case, it’s not all lost, because the organism is constantly regenerating, and if you finally realize that and start giving it exactly what it craves, you can restore and heal it (rather than just "curing" it)...

So, basically, "if you use Herbalife, everything is perfect because you're using Herbalife, and if you don't, you've still got time to catch up!"
8 - don't act like a fool or you might end up staying one... oops, sorry, looks like I'm a bit late with that warning...

Wow, look how brilliant you are...
Frank Alvarez8 Frank Alvarez8 Member
43 messages
joined Jun 2005
#70 ·
mistybear4 said:You’re being ridiculous. I didn't write N. O. just to label some chemical compound; I used it as a shorthand... I don't get why you're getting so worked up over this. 😕

There are NO abbreviations for chemical formulas!!! And in the US, we use American terminology for chemical names, not English ones!!!
Sit down! 1

mistybear4 said:...along with some extra explanations I heard during a lecture by Dr. Louis Ignarro....


Man, I love this syndrome where illiterate, frustrated people jump at any chance to emphasize that they attended some doctor's lecture.
And imagine, they even took pictures with him!!!

Well, I have a photo with Jovanotti!!!🙂
fadedtrucker19 fadedtrucker19 Member
31 messages
joined Dec 2002
#71 ·
Chloe Morris12 said:You guys have absolutely ruined this thread. 😢

😢

My apologies.

Are you seriously asking the moderators to split this thread into two separate parts—one for your actual discussion and another just for the endless bickering?

Or maybe they just want to toss us all out—collectively, as one big group? Or at least kick out some of us. 😉
Brandon Booth6 Brandon Booth6 Newcomer
7 messages
joined Oct 2007
#72 ·
Chloe Morris12 said:You guys totally ruined my thread😢


well, that's exactly what I'm getting at here!

I honestly had this little hope—just a tiny glimmer, really—that I might actually stumble upon some intelligent discourse in this thread, but the second mistybear4 shows up (which is basically a guarantee whenever anyone mentions nutrition), the whole thing just devolves into this endless, circular shouting match between them and whoever hasn't yet realized that you can't prove anything to them, or more accurately, that you can't even have a coherent conversation with them.

Besides, Chloe Morris12 was the one who actually asked the question, so wouldn't it be just basic decency to actually answer her?
mistybear4 mistybear4 Active Member
58 messages
joined Nov 2007
#73 ·
nimbledriver81 said:It’s not that we’re acting superior; it’s just that your level of understanding is so low you can't even follow what we're saying. You don't grasp basic concepts or how the human body actually functions. You just pick up some random tidbit somewhere and start throwing definitions and advice around without having a clue. You've proven that more than once. Maybe you should get real and realize there isn't exactly a hungry market for your products here. People who actually care about their health can manage just fine without your help.

I might not have everything figured out quite as perfectly as you do, but I see the results these products deliver right in front of me, and my enthusiasm is far too great for me to sit here and provide a hundred percent scientific breakdown... which usually leads me into certain traps when I try to "think out loud" to explain things to myself and everyone else. A real salesman would probably just take a "take it or leave it" approach, but I'm no salesman, and I suppose that's my curse. 😎

I can't say I agree with your assumption that everyone knows exactly what's best for their own health, especially when you look at the state of things everywhere you turn... even doctors and physicians seem to be getting sicker these days. 😢
mistybear4 mistybear4 Active Member
58 messages
joined Nov 2007
#74 ·
Sarah Gomez52 said:There are NO abbreviations for chemical formulas!!! And when it comes to naming chemical compounds here in America, we use American terminology, not English!!!
Sit down.

Look, I already told you I wasn't abbreviating a chemical formula, I was just shortening the phrase Nitric Oxide, but you can be real prickly sometimes... 😁

Sarah Gomez52 said:God, I just love this syndrome where illiterate, frustrated people jump at any chance to emphasize that they once sat in on some doctor's lecture—and get this, they even took a photo with him!!!

The point isn't that I personally hung out with him or snapped a selfie; it’s more that anyone can do that. If some uneducated guy can manage it, then actual experts like yourself have the exact same opportunity if you actually bother to try... 😉

And if I were actually as brilliant and specialized as you claim to be, I probably would have used the meeting to discuss technical topics, but honestly, just being in his presence was enough for me... 😉
mistybear4 mistybear4 Active Member
58 messages
joined Nov 2007
#75 ·
nimbledriver81 said:Take it easy, Rachel Brooks63, don't let him get under your skin. You can see he's just digging his own grave deeper with every single post he makes. 😁 Just sit back, relax, and enjoy the show; honestly, this is better than anything on Netflix right now.

Exactly—it’s the best defense, I suppose... I try to back up my points with actual facts or some kind of logical reasoning, though I completely get why you find the whole thing hilarious, because even I have to laugh at myself sometimes for putting in this much effort when I know you all have your own version of the "truth," leaving me to just wait, much like you are, until it becomes obvious that everything I'm saying is actually perfectly logical and true. 😁
Frank Alvarez8 Frank Alvarez8 Member
43 messages
joined Jun 2005
#76 ·
mistybear4 said:Look, I told you, I wasn't using an abbreviation for a chemical compound—I was just spelling out Nitric Oxid. You're being a bit mean about it... 😁

And my point still stands: in America, we name our chemical compounds using AMERICAN names!!!
Frank Alvarez8 Frank Alvarez8 Member
43 messages
joined Jun 2005
#77 ·
indigo Girl said:You guys totally ruined my thread 😢

My bad 👋

Based on what you wrote, you aren't eating much, though that really depends on how active you are, your lifestyle, and your body type...

As for junk food, it's always bad, but you won't be harmed if you indulge once in a while.

The body doesn't get "used to" specific foods (like chocolate), but it does adapt to the types and amounts of nutrients you consume. When you shift those ratios, your system reacts accordingly (for better or worse).
mistybear4 mistybear4 Active Member
58 messages
joined Nov 2007
#78 ·
Rachel Brooks63 said:You know what the real issue is?

Luca, Sarah Gomez52, kumek, rustymoose54, and I—I’m sorry if I missed anyone, I really didn't mean to leave anyone out—all know that he’s just talking out of his ass, essentially acting like a loudmouth who spends way too much time hoarding links. But the rest of the people on this forum don't have that context, and it creates this unsettling situation where they might end up choosing between actual expertise and someone who simply writes a lot and sounds convincing. It’s honestly pretty scary, because some people will inevitably decide to trust him just because they assume the real experts don't actually know what they're talking about anyway.

Do I come across as convincing? (Thanks for the recommendation...) 😉
I’m not trying to sit here and claim that the experts have absolutely no clue what they’re doing—that isn't my point at all. What I am saying is that the level of knowledge some of you carry simply isn't enough to offer real-world, practical help to people. If we were actually sharing recommendations based on honest, proven results, we could show people how to improve their health without having to rely on those shady medical advice loops and endless prescriptions.
Of course this hits a nerve for some people; if things actually become transparent, they won't be able to charge those exorbitant fees anymore, and I honestly get why there's so much pushback here. But trying to paint me as some clueless amateur just because I don't hold a degree in chemical engineering or nutritional science feels like a bit of a cheap shot, frankly.
The advice I pass along to people out in the field is really just a tiny fraction of what the top-tier experts in this industry share with me, and frankly, I can pick and choose whatever bits actually interest me. The real question is whether I even need all that extra depth, because I’ve already realized I have a tendency to overcomplicate things far more than necessary.

I’ve crossed paths with enough doctors, nutritionists, and chemists to know that skepticism is usually just a phase. I remember talking to a researcher back in Chicago who was just as dismissive as you are now, but his entire outlook shifted the moment he actually felt the effects of the product and grasped the underlying science of how it works. It's inevitable, really; whether it takes you one year or ten, I am certain you'll eventually find yourselves repeating my exact words once you experience it firsthand. 😉
Why am I so certain? It’s because, despite all that massive ego on display, I actually believe you guys are reasonable, intelligent people; my goal in life has always been to learn from those who possess actual sense rather than wasting my breath on pointless bickering. 🙂

If you think I’m being stubborn or just digging my heels in to defend my position, honestly, it's only because I know exactly what I'm talking about. If any of you had actually stood where I was standing and lived through what I did, you probably wouldn't be arguing; you'd be explaining it to everyone else with a lot more nuance and a lot less certainty. 🙂
northernfalcon30 northernfalcon30 Active Member
90 messages
joined Sep 2003
#79 ·
Ugh, people just love making their jobs sound all mystical and deep 🙄.
If they didn't wrap their knowledge up in these "magic" little formulas, they might accidentally explain everything using basic common sense... and then they'd lose that whole "holy aura" thing going on.

I'm still sitting here waiting for a single actual argument from this chemistry Inquisition, but honestly? All I’m getting is the stench of sulfur.

😁
mistybear4 mistybear4 Active Member
58 messages
joined Nov 2007
#80 ·
Susan Gomez33 said:Look, my friend, these are just empty slogans; no matter how much you try to learn them, you still manage to display an enviable level of ignorance regarding the most basic fundamentals.

That’s exactly what a decent portion of the people here are trying to make clear. To hawk Herbalife, you don't actually need any real expertise; all you need is a handful of catchy buzzwords like "cellular nutrition" to sound important. But look, you stepped into a debate about chemistry, biology, and physiology alongside actual biologists and biochemists—people who, unlike you, actually have a grasp on the science behind the jargon they're using.

Lesson number one: you aren't going to find "N.O." written that way anywhere, because it doesn't actually mean anything; if you want to be correct, it's just NO.
And once again, unlike you, I actually understand what Nitric Oxid is; I’ve spent enough time digging through the original Ignarrov papers for my own work to know the real deal, whereas if I were ever forced to sit through a lecture on Nitric Oxid or basic vitamins and minerals delivered by an ignorant person of your caliber, I’d probably just commit ritual suicide right then and there.

"My dear"... really? 😉 Thanks. 😁
You're right that I don't have all the answers yet, but I know exactly where I'm headed, and whether anyone else decides to help me get there or just stands by is honestly irrelevant—I'll reach that goal eventually, it's just a matter of how much time it takes. I've never been one for surface-level shortcuts; I want to actually grasp the mechanics of how things work rather than just blindly following whatever some expert says, you feel me?

I didn't step into this debate by choice; I was dragged into it, which is a massive distinction. I let my guard down and allowed myself to be pulled onto unfamiliar ground just so they could try to take me down, but that’s an impossible task—I always end up coming out of these things even stronger and more unhinged than before. 😁
When people come at me with attacks, I just try to process them through logic and my own perspective, but when it comes to insults, I tend to give back exactly what I get—if not a little more. 😎
If people actually used a bit of common sense, they’d take a second to click through the links I stumble upon and actually consider the points I'm making, rather than just burning all their energy trying to pick a fight with me. 🙂

Ignarrov doesn't reveal everything he knows or the full mechanics behind how that product actually works in those papers; he’s just laying out the general principles, while the real secret remains patented and locked away within that one specific formula. Since you clearly have a much deeper handle on this than I do, I really don't want to get into a back-and-forth about it, but all I can say is that the core trick lies in converting citrulline into arginine—I haven't quite wrapped my head around the science of that yet, though I'll certainly try to figure it out.

At the end of his lecture, he just looked out at us and said, "If you can wrap your head around how aspirin and Viagra work, then you’re more than capable of understanding nitric oxid." It was one of those lines that hangs in the air, making you realize how much we overcomplicate things. I remember sitting in a similar seminar back in Chicago years ago, thinking the exact same thing while staring at my coffee.
I haven't quite wrapped my head around the full implications of that sentence yet, but I figure there's no point dwelling on aspirin or Viagra—everyone already knows the drill with those. So, we're left with Nitric Oxid. It’s the only thing left worth looking into, and if I have to spend some time figuring out how it actually works, well, I suppose I will. 😎

I’m not out here trying to lecture anyone; if anything, I’m just looking to pick the brains of people who actually know more than I do. That doesn't give anyone the right to dismiss me as some clueless salesman, though. You should probably drop the ego, too—who knows, maybe we’ll all end up heading down to Santa Barbara this July for his seminar on Nitric Oxid. 🙂

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