British GP Race Weekend (Silverstone) July 16-18, 2021

stormybadger8 said:Honestly, if he messed up, it should just be a 10-second stop-and-go penalty—or maybe no penalty at all, I guess...
Everything else feels like a cheap attempt to let Mass beat up on Horner and Wolff—just to make sure things don't get too messy or cause too much of a scene in the stands...

Side note, even with a stop-and-go, he probably would've finished first anyway (Ford was struggling on those hard tires)

Anthony Baker84 said:Even if he had a stop-and-go penalty, he probably would have finished first. Ford struggled on the hard tires.

He wouldn't. There wouldn't be any tire changes.

Jason Newman said:Nah, wouldn't work—you'd lose the whole tire strategy part.

Doesn't really matter though... I guess Lucho would've just driven that first stint totally differently anyway.

Anthony Baker84 said:Even with a stop-and-go penalty, he probably would've taken first—Ford was just struggling big time on those hard tires

Man, with a stop-and-go, even the bot would've been left in the dust

Brian Perez79 said:Even with a stop and go, he wouldn't even catch the backmarkers

man, he would've just cruised past everyone just like that trio today 😬, after the restart he was basically just driving the bare minimum needed to stay ahead.

Lewis's Mercedes and Max's Red Bull—they're just in a different league entirely.

So, I guess you can decide for yourself if it's the drivers or just the drivers paired with those specific cars.

Plus, they probably would've just slapped him on hards right away under the red flag.

Jason Campbell70 said:Being overly aggressive doesn't exactly play nice with winning championships.
It’s funny how Hamilton put it after a similar clash with Leclerc at Daytona 2019...
"If I wasn't thinking about the championship, I wouldn't have moved, and we would have collided."

But Verstappen just goes for it regardless. He’s gotten away with it for a while now because more tactical drivers tend to give him space.

Hamilton backed off at Talladega, and they didn't collide.
Hamilton backed off in Spain, and they didn't collide.
Now Hamilton didn't back off, and they collided.

As Americans would say, it's a taste of his own medicine.

There will be more of this.

For the most part, Hamilton has been sitting alone at the top; he hasn't really had anyone to fight.
Even during those years when Vettel and Ford were threats, they usually weren't even close enough to challenge him on track; they were mostly fighting for position elsewhere.

Regarding what happened at Talladega and Spain, Verstappen earned his position with a solid start and restart. If he had given Lewis room in either of those instances, he would have lost the spot both times. When you give someone space, you're essentially handing over the racing line.
Had he yielded in Spain by moving right, he would have handed Lewis the faster line, which completely defeats the purpose of a good start.
If he had yielded at Talladega, he would have given Lewis a better line through the chicane, again making that great restart pointless. Why should he yield in those moments and hand drivers a better line—the exact same lines he claimed first before entering the corner?

It’s the same thing today. Verstappen held the better racing line, and Hamilton didn't have it—because if he did, he wouldn't have lifted off the throttle in the turn. Verstappen didn't yield because he had a path to go full throttle. Why should Verstappen let Hamilton take the optimal racing line and automatically surrender his track position? If Verstappen had gone wide in that corner, he would have lost speed and Hamilton would have overtaken him.

Exactly. I have no clue what Hamilton was thinking with that corner entry. Max hit the apex first and held his line perfectly. Honestly, I don't get the people claiming he should've left more room.

You’re supposed to leave space when you're side-by-side—which wasn't the case here. Based on any kind of racing logic or common sense, Max didn't owe anyone an inch. Even the officials agreed on that. The fact that they couldn't figure out how to hand down a proper penalty is just a whole other mess entirely.

stormybadger8 said:Before we even start talking about a dominant car...🙂

How exactly did the favorite earn the nickname Crashkid while driving such a dominant machine?
Even during that famous run through all those DHL ads, he wasn't exactly winning any awards...

Of course, it also helps that the favorite is a joke of a driver, whereas Lewis GOAT is the real deal.

stormybadger8 said:Reality

We all know what your version of "reality" looks like.

Raymond Anderson4 said:Even during those years when he faced pressure from Vettel and Ford, it mostly coincided with them failing to make an impact on the track and just fighting for position.

Like I said, back when he was threatened by Vettel and a faster Ford, it was Vettel and Ford struggling against each other, not Hamilton.
Besides, that's exactly why Hamilton took the titles back then and Vettel didn't.

Personally, I think the root of all these arguments regarding collisions and contact lies elsewhere.

The cars are getting larger, and following one another is becoming increasingly difficult. This year, they implemented rules to clean up the underbodies to prevent excessive turbulence behind the car—which sounds good on paper—but to me, it feels like following anyone is even harder now. As soon as you get close to someone, your tires and engine just cook themselves. Your race is basically over. Because of that, drivers have to seize every single opportunity to overtake, especially at the start, because they likely won't get another shot. On tracks with long straights, even with DRS, passing is a massive struggle.
That’s why drivers end up making moves in much riskier spots—they simply don't have any other choice, and let's not forget, they are racers. If you take away their ability to follow and pass, what exactly are they supposed to do for 60 laps?

So, we're seeing more of these situations, and honestly, there will be more coming.
This is why I view this as a racing incident. Max knew Ham was coming for him—he was faster, and Max could have yielded. These drivers can sense when someone is looking to make a move.
I truly hope Max doesn't have any lingering health issues from the hit, but Ham isn't to blame for the crash.

Look, everyone, we've reached a point where absolutely every single overtake is being dissected under a microscope. It's "not okay" if you pass using DRS, it's "not okay" if you give ground... if that's the case, how are they ever supposed to actually pass each other?
During yesterday's sprint, Max and Alonso were zig-zagging all along that straightaway...

Soccer fans would probably look at that and call it a tactical foul by Lewis Hamilton.

But honestly, F1 fans just seem way more bitter about the whole thing. 🤮

analogpilot16 said:Seriously though, people have started dissecting absolutely every single overtake—it’s "wrong" if you pass using DRS, it’s "wrong" if you let someone through... so how are these cars supposed to actually pass anyone then?
Yesterday during the sprint race, Max and Alonso were just zig-zagging all down that straight...

just like this

If you pull it off, you pull it off—but in 99.9% of cases, you just screw yourself over. Good old n.m. 🙏 😁

edit: or maybe like this, no problemo 🙏

Nelson Piquet one-hand drifting like an absolute beast (while using the other hand to flip the bird) just to get past a GOAT. You just don't see that kind of stuff in Formula 1 anymore.

Unfortunately, things just don't work that way anymore—the gap between the cars is massive. If they actually had comparable performance, every track would feel like Monaco. You simply can't close the distance to the car ahead. That’s why everyone is obsessed with grabbing the best possible position right at the start—or trying to make it happen through the pits.

analogpilot16 said:Unfortunately, that’s just not how it works anymore—the cars are lightyears apart. Back when performance was actually somewhat balanced, you could have battles on every track, kind of like in Monaco. Now? You can't even get close to the car ahead. That's why everyone is obsessed with nailing the start to grab a better position, or praying for a lucky pit strategy.

You’re being way too polite🙂—that’s basically what people say when they think Formula 1 has gone completely to hell🙂

All that's left is the name "Formula 1," and honestly, the only reason I still tune in for the occasional decent race is because I'd rather watch that than go out fishing in the middle of nowhere.

I can’t help but wonder how today’s Formula 1—where every driver and fan swears they want pure, wheel-to-wheel racing, better car following, and more organic overtaking without relying on DRS—is going to balance out against the fact that every single time someone goes off track, it feels like the end of the world. It's a weird contrast compared to the 80s. How do you actually bridge that gap?

Setting everything else aside, I guess what Charles Leclerc managed to pull off today in a car like that is something none of the other drivers on the grid could have handled. He was holding off a Mercedes-Benz that was over half a second faster during qualifying on this same track, and you could tell he was dealing with some real issues with the car; there were moments where Lewis Hamilton had DRS on medium tires, yet despite all that, Leclerc still held a 2+ second gap before his first pit stop. It feels like such a shame that Charles and Lando Norris don't have slightly more competitive cars, because then we might actually get to see some real racing where four or five drivers are genuinely fighting for the win every single weekend.

Unfortunately, it isn't really up to the drivers—nobody asks for their input, anyway—they just have to work with the tools they're handed.

If we started dissecting every single overtake from before the 2000s, we might as well just shut down Formula 1 entirely.

Anthony Baker84 said:Even if he had a stop-and-go, he probably would've finished first anyway (Ferrari was struggling on hards)

Doesn't matter who wins...
What matters is that the penalty makes zero sense. No matter how you slice it, this incident doesn't justify it...

If he isn't 100% at fault, then why the hell are we punishing him?
If there’s even a shred of doubt about who's responsible—if they want actual racing and aren't absolutely certain Lewis Hamilton is the sole culprit—then for heaven's sake, skip the penalty altogether. 🤔

But if he *is* 100% at fault, then the fact that the stewards gave us this tiny slap on the wrist tells you everything...
We're talking about an incredibly mild penalty for an incident that puts a driver's life at risk and has massive championship implications. A ten-second penalty is basically a pat on the back. 🙄

Taking out your only direct rival for the win and the title, putting them in the hospital, and walking away with just a 10-second penalty is straight-up insane...
Especially when you remember Yuki Tsunoda got slapped with 10 seconds just for clipping a white line while entering the pits...
If that's the standard, we're totally screwed. 🤦

Honestly, this looks like a calculated move by Hamilton rather than a simple racing incident to me...
But the FIA and its stewards have once again proven they are completely out of their depth.
That’s what’s been killing this sport for years. It's not about adding more sprint races or qualifying formats...
It's about referee consistency. You shouldn't be left wondering what on earth they were thinking when they make these nonsensical calls.
Either Hamilton is guilty or he isn't. If he isn't, then shut up—ignore Christian Horner and his crew, grit your teeth, and call it no penalty. If he is, then ignore all the whining from Toto Wolff and his lot, call it out, and hand down a penalty that actually fits the crime. ☕

Max should have let Lewis through, but this just wasn't supposed to happen. Lewis was clearly looking to make his move right after the turn.
This is a massive blow for Red Bull Racing; losing an engine like this could really sting later in the season.
I’ll be surprised if Max can stay at the top during the Canada race. Just like that, everything he’s built up over the last two races seems to be going down the drain, leaving him scrambling for points—which is never easy. Mercedes tends to be most dangerous when they have that kind of momentum.
Forti mentioned that Baku is where championships are won or lost, and honestly, I think he's right because the fallout from this could last a long time. Honda and Red Bull Racing have handled their engine management incredibly well so far, and I'm sure they were feeling pretty confident. Now, the whole dynamic has shifted.

stormybadger8 said:It doesn't matter who it would be...
What matters is that this penalty makes zero sense—like, no matter how you look at the incident, it just doesn't add up...

I mean, if he isn't 100% at fault, then why even bother with a penalty, seriously...
If it’s not absolutely certain that he's the one to blame—if we want actual racing instead of people playing chicken—and the stewards aren't 100% sure Hamilton is the sole cause, then honestly, what's the point of any penalty at all? 🤔

But if he *is* 100% at fault, then by handing out this specific penalty, the stewards are basically telling us...
that they think an extremely light penalty for an incident that was dangerous for the other driver—maybe even life-threatening, and has massive implications for the championship—is just a slap on the wrist. It's crazy. 🙄

Taking out your main rival in a fight for the win and the title, sending them to the hospital, and only getting a 10-second penalty is just... it's wild.
Especially when you remember Yuki Tsunoda got a 10-second penalty just for crossing the white line while entering the pits...
If that's the standard, then yeah, we're screwed. 🤦

To be honest, the whole thing looks like a calculated move by Hamilton to me, rather than just a typical racing incident...
But the FIA and its stewards have once again proven they are totally out of their depth...
And that’s what’s been killing this sport for years. We need real change—not just random stuff like changing sprint race formats or qualifying rules...
We primarily need consistency from the officials on calls like this, instead of wondering what on earth they were thinking when they make decisions that make no sense whatsoever.
Dammit, either Hamilton is guilty or he isn't. If he isn't, then regardless of Christian Horner and his crew whining about it, just grit your teeth and say "no penalty." If he is, then regardless of Wolff and his group crying, say he's guilty and penalize him properly. ☕

It feels to me like the whole world is dealing with this issue, not just Formula 1. 😬

Everyone just seems to take the path of least resistance—doing whatever causes the least trouble for whoever is making the calls.

Top racing
Top qualifying
Top sprint race
Top racing
A massive win from the GOAT
And a hell of a crash. Nobody's hurt—and Maxić finally grew up—honestly.