F1 Montreal GP: June 7-9, 2019

Roger Wright94 said:There wasn't any foul play there. It was a clean move.
It would have been better if they hadn't told him. He could have kept driving without being weighed down by all those endless calculations and mental math.

Would it have been better if they hadn't told him? 🤣
Where else can you find better motivation than knowing you can climb even higher if you just pick up the pace?
What if Charles Leclerc had driven a few laps slower and still finished only a second or two behind? Would he still be arguing that they shouldn't have given him those instructions? It seems pretty obvious that if he were driving for Ferrari, they wouldn't have told him a thing.
Honestly, their pit wall completely lost the plot there. They totally missed it. 🤣
It’s really no surprise that Mercedes-Benz keeps handing them their heads year after year.

Gary Palmer8 said:Oh sure, all 78 wins were just thanks to his car... hilarious Hamilton haters...

No, he didn't benefit at all. Hamilton was driving twice as fast, but then suddenly Sebastian Vettel just catapulted ahead without Hamilton even needing to slow down or change his line, right?

And as for those "give to the poor" types, maybe save that for some charity event... this is still a sport...

Is this really the best you can do? Is this your peak intellectual capacity when you're trying to sound smart? I hope not.

I was talking about yesterday's race at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. If that's too much for you to wrap your head around, feel free to ask and I'll happily explain it to you.
Which part isn't clicking? Or is it just unacceptable to you that Hamilton could ever make more mistakes than Sebastian Vettel?

Hamilton messed up in Canada; it was obvious. But there were no consequences. That's the reality.
Even after several "overtakes" and losing a second or two here and there, he managed to recover quickly and catch up to Sebastian Vettel, putting him under serious pressure.
In my view, the car made that possible (or the Mercedes-Benz, whatever). The car was faster and more capable than the Ferrari yesterday, at least in the second stint. If the order had been reversed, I highly doubt Sebastian Vettel would have even been sniffing Lewis Hamilton's exhaust.

Now, if someone wants to believe that Hamilton's quick recoveries after mistakes and his repeated attacks on Sebastian Vettel are primarily due to his driving skill, hey, I'll let them think that. It's fine by me, I just like knowing who I'm listening to.
I said I'll let you think it, but I disagree. He's a great driver, sure, but he's not an alien.

The Knights Templar? Honestly, who even thinks about them anymore? It’s like they just vanished into thin air after all that history. You have to wonder, though—what really happened to them? Was it just a sudden collapse, or was there something deeper going on behind the scenes? Just food for thought! kaže:
Socially acceptable behavior is kept in check by all sorts of laws, norms, and actual penalties when you step out of line. Honestly, isn't it the exact same deal in Formula 1? We've got the rulebooks, and we've definitely got the penalties...

Look, you just can't predict every single thing that's going to go down on track, right? In those split seconds, what really matters is staying true to the spirit of the law. At the end of the day, this whole sport is about racing, so handing out a penalty like that just feels totally against the spirit of Formula 1. When you look at the big picture—the championship standings, the gap between the teams—it makes even less sense. Sure, Sebastian Vettel basically shot himself in the foot here, but it feels like the officials decided to come in and amputate both legs.

Signed.
Look, I’m not even going to get into the weeds about the standings or the power ratios. Honestly? The spirit of the rules should be about making sure the racing actually happens—even if you're just fighting for second-to-last place. Shouldn't it?

Gary Palmer8 said:Aha, so those 78 wins were all just thanks to his car? Please. Those Lewis Hamilton haters are honestly just hilarious at this point. Seriously, though?

Nah, he didn't benefit at all. Lewis Hamilton was flying way faster, but then out of nowhere, Sebastian Vettel just launched himself forward.So, Lewis didn't even have to lift off the gas or change his line at all, right?

Maybe we could take some of that "give to the needy" energy and turn it into a fundraiser? I mean, come on, this is still a sport after all. Why not?

Lewis Hamilton said after the race that he was pushing absolutely everything he had. He felt like he finally had that window open to make a move, but honestly? He just couldn't find anything more than a decent lap in clean air. That was really it.
Can we please just drop all those vague spikes like "he was twice as fast" or "he could have done this" unless you actually have some hard evidence to back it up?
Let's be real here: Lewis Hamilton was definitely closing the gap, but he never actually made a move to overtake Sebastian Vettel. Instead, he just kept playing it smart, using that slipstream advantage on the straights to stay right on his tail.
Besides that, he’d already been tucked right under Sebastian Vettel's tail for a few laps. His engine was starting to overheat...

So, here’s the real dilemma we’re facing: how much do we actually want the rulebook to dictate the race versus just letting them drive? Do we let them race, or do we hand out penalties for every little mistake? I mean, should we be penalizing every single bit of contact or every slight braking error, only to go back after the checkered flag and shuffle the results into some completely different order? Is that even what we want to see?
At this rate, we’re going to completely scrap the whole "racing incident" concept. What's next? Every single driver showing up to the pits with their own personal lawyer on standby?

Jason Campbell70 said:Man, years of rooting for Ferrari really can change a person.
And you used to be the gold standard on this forum—so objective, unbiased, and calm.

Maybe you just lost your mind somewhere along the way?

Look, the vast majority of people on this forum,
the vast majority of those interviewed within the actual Formula 1 circle,
the vast majority of journalists over at the big motorsports sites,
pretty much every single former and current Formula 1 driver...

In my humble opinion, that "vast majority" would be about 95% of the people here who haven't seen a thing for love or money. Come on, you 5%—maybe check if you're actually wearing your glasses properly?

edit: p.s. I just saw Target is having some massive summer sale—everything is 20% off.😉

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/r...anada/4461461/

Heh, someone’s acting a little too indignant here.

Shortly after that, however, Sebastian Vettel has dispatched the oversteer and begins steering to the left to follow the direction of the circuit - suggesting he is now under control.

But a split second later—instead of staying left—Sebastian Vettel is seen letting go of the steering wheel, which sends the car drifting to the right, effectively blocking the path Lewis Hamilton would have taken if he'd actually had the room.

A further reason the stewards established was through the use of an extra CCTV camera view of the incident, which was not broadcast on the international feed, showing Vettel's Head looking in the mirrors at where Hamilton was during these moments when he was releasing the wheel to the right.

So, you die-hard fans—it looks like your hero might be playing a little dirty.

Every race comes with its own set of stewards. If we could just have the same officials every single time, we might actually be able to establish some consistency regarding the criteria used. Last year, Max Verstappen pulled off quite a series of maneuvers, and if I recall correctly, he was hit with two penalties. Perfection is an impossibility here; there will never be a scenario where everyone walks away satisfied. Yesterday, however, the leader shouldn't have been penalized, yet a Penalty was handed out regardless. Perhaps this is simply signaling a shift in how things will be handled moving forward, but we shall see.

Roger Wright94 said:Is this really the best you can do? Like, is this your limit when you're trying to be smart? I really hope not.

I was just talking about yesterday's race in Canada. If that's too complex for you to wrap your head around, feel free to ask—I'd be happy to break it down for you.
What part is confusing? Or is it just hard to accept that Lewis Hamilton could ever make more mistakes than Sebastian Vettel?

Hamilton messed up in Canada—it was pretty obvious—but there were no penalties. Simple as that.
Even after getting overtaken several times and losing a second or two here and there, he managed to recover quickly and stay right on Sebastian Vettel's tail.
In my view, the car made that possible (or the Mercedes-Benz, if you prefer). The car was just faster and more capable than the Ferrari yesterday.

Now, if anyone wants to believe that Lewis Hamilton's quick recoveries and constant pressure on Sebastian Vettel are purely due to his driving skills, hey, go ahead—I won't stop you.
I said I'll allow it, but that's not what I think. Sure, he's a great driver, but he isn't an alien.

It doesn't matter whose limit we're talking about—what matters is that Lewis Hamilton's reach goes way beyond 91 wins... it's pretty obvious, so don't bother responding.😁

Gary Palmer8 said:it doesn't matter what my range is or yours...

For me, it matters. I need to know who I'm actually talking to.

Michael Jackson10 said:Signature.
I’m really not looking to get into a whole debate about the grid positions or the power ratios here—I just feel like the spirit of the law should actually serve the racing, even if we're talking about the second-to-last spot...

Lewis Hamilton mentioned after the race that he was pushing at his absolute limit; he had that little window to make a move, but he couldn't manage anything more than just sitting in the slipstream—plain and simple.
Let's skip those random spikes of "he was twice as fast" or "he should have done this"—unless you've got actual hard evidence, let's just leave that aside.
The reality is that while Hamilton was closing the gap, he never truly made a play to overtake Sebastian Vettel, who was just playing it smart by using the advantage on the straights.
Plus, he’d been stuck in Vettel's wake for several laps already, which was just overheating the car...

It really comes down to a dilemma: how much weight do we want to give to strict rule enforcement versus pure racing? Do we let them race, or do we hand out penalties for every tiny mistake, every bit of contact, or every braking point, only to recalculate everything at the end and create a results list that looks nothing like what actually happened on track?
If we go that route, we basically kill the idea of a "racing incident"—every driver would need a lawyer waiting in their pit box...

I was actually thinking about that moment when Vettel was merging back onto the track...

If Ferrari doesn't blow it, Vettel’s gonna be the one left holding the bag.
I mean, if he hadn't made that rookie mistake, Lewis Hamilton would've never caught him, and we wouldn't even be sitting here talking about penalties, I guess.
Honestly, Fernando Alonso would've probably swept every single race up to this point driving a car like this.
They really should've brought him back yesterday; he's pretty much the only guy who can actually pull Ferrari out of this mess.

gentlemoose57 said:https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/r...anada/4461461/

Hehe, someone’s acting a little indignant here.

So, you little fanboys think our hero is just playing dirty, huh?

Exactly. Like Juan Pablo Montoya once said, you have to be blind or completely clueless not to know where your opponent is on the track at any given moment. The guy made a mistake and intentionally swung back to block Lewis Hamilton, and since the stewards ruled it an illegal move, that's the end of the story for me.

gentlemoose57 said:Alright, you little fanboys, stop acting like he’s some kind of shady con artist.

Look, Sebastian Vettel literally said on the team radio that he saw him right there—basically confirming he caught him in the rearview mirror. So how is he "spinning" anything? He isn't. Your first quote uses the word "suggests," which implies they had control and were intentionally shoving him into the wall. But since you’re such an absolute pillar of intellectual honesty, I know you’ll agree with me 100%: this is just how they chose to INTERPRET Sebastian Vettel closing the gap, not definitive proof that he was intentionally forcing Lewis Hamilton off the track. You’ll agree, obviously, because if you don't, you're just being a total fraud.

If the stewards at this race were Jenson Button, Nigel Mansell, and Martin Brundle, Vettel wouldn't have even been handed a penalty because they wouldn't have interpreted things that way.

wiredfalcon2 said:Look, Sebastian himself said over the team radio that he saw him—confirming he caught him in the mirror—so how can you claim he's being shady? You can't. And your initial quote uses the word "suggests," which implies he was in total control and intentionally shoved him toward the wall. But, since you're such an undisputed paragon of intellectual honesty, I know you'll agree with me 100% when I say this is just evidence of how they *interpreted* Vettel closing the gap, rather than definitive proof that it was a deliberate move by Vettel to squeeze Lewis Hamilton? You'll agree, because anything less than total alignment with my view would mean you're just being blatantly dishonest.

No, no, no—it’s simply not going to work the way little Jokic thinks it will.

Vettel stated he saw him once he was already too close to the wall. Besides, he was checking those mirrors well before that sudden swerve to the right.

The footage clearly shows the sequence of events—first he stabilizes, then he checks the mirrors, and only then does he veer right right into Hamilton's path.

😉

gentlemoose57 said:Nah, that’s just not how this goes down. It's not working out the way you think it is.

Vettel said he saw him when he was already getting too close to the wall. And he was checking his mirrors even before that move to the right.

The footage clearly shows the sequence—first stabilization, then checking the mirrors, then cutting right right where Hamilton was coming up on him.

😉

Stop playing games. First you claim Vettel says he didn't see him, then you turn around and act like he did. You know damn well he only specified *when* he saw him, but the guy never actually said *when* he spotted him—just that he saw him. So yeah, you're twisting it.

And again, here's the thing you can't answer while you're busy calling Vettel a liar: if the stewards for this race had been Jenson Button, Nigel Mansell, and Martin Brundle, Vettel wouldn't have even gotten a penalty because they wouldn't have interpreted it that way.

And there it is—even Nico says 🙂

gentlemoose57 said:

Even Nico agrees 🙂

It’s all pretty obvious to me—the guy veered over on purpose to cause a mess, but Lewis handled it like a pro and dodged the crash.

Some people just seem to have a hard time seeing things clearly...

Michael Jackson10 said:What if I decided to play director for the broadcasts here on the forum?

Oh, please. Go ahead and show me this "incredible" lap you’re talking about. I swear, I’ve watched every single replay and slow-motion angle available online, and I don't see what you're claiming to see. 🤷

Michael Jackson10 said:You had plenty of chances to see it all yourself. You watched the live broadcast, then you sat through the post-race studio analysis. They literally showed the telemetry—the way the steering input reacted to the car's position while he was fighting that snap oversteer. You saw him catch the rear end perfectly and keep his line. But of course, none of that matters to you. You’ve already made up your mind, and you aren't listening to anything else.
Look, you’ve got every right to your opinion, just like I’ve got every right to mine. ☕

Yeah, I saw that driver fly off the track because of a mistake, only to slam it back onto the racing line at full throttle just to cut Lewis Hamilton off. Seriously? Explain this to me: how is it that Vettel supposedly can't control his car one second, but the very moment he decides to block Hamilton, he suddenly has perfect mastery over the machine?

Nicholas Newman2 said:Look, even though I’m a huge Mercedes fan, I have zero interest in glorifying behavior that shouldn't be excused—like how Hamilton acts after a race. If I had my way, I’d give him a serious piece of my mind for stuff like that.

There are actually a few sane Mercedes and Hamilton fans in here, kudos to you guys.👍

But has anyone actually stopped to ask this: knowing that Vettel was going to veer right as he pulled off the grass (which was intentional since he lacked grip), why didn't Hamilton just dive past him on the left? At worst, they would have gone wheel-to-wheel, and more likely, he would've cleared him easily. Most importantly, he wouldn't be dealing with this massive shitstorm after the race.🙂

Richard Walker38 said:Oh sure—show me this "insane" car movement you're talking about, because I honestly can't see it in any single replay. 🤷

Yeah, I saw a driver go wide after a mistake and then just floor it back onto the racing line to block Lewis Hamilton. But seriously—how does Vettel supposedly struggle with car control, yet suddenly becomes a master pilot the exact second he needs to shut the door on Hamilton?

Well, obviously... otherwise the poor guy would have just slammed straight into the wall uncontrolled...🤣