São Paulo Grand Prix (Indianapolis Motor Speedway) | November 12-14, 2021

Jason Newman said:If they had brought in Alonso instead, the Maestro would be sitting on ten titles by now.

Vettel? Please... he wouldn't have hit ten, but he definitely would've been eyeing his sixth by now.

Disqualified, but somehow still getting on the grid. We're looking at a car that doesn't even meet the technical regulations, yet it's somehow two seconds faster than most of the top four, which basically means it's a lock for a top five finish tonight. It’s just a total circus, honestly. I mean, does anyone else feel like this happens? Like, when someone actually gets caught cheating, but then everyone just acts like it's fine and lets them race anyway?
😬

At that moment, Lewis Hamilton was basically cruising toward a win.

graniteharbor502 said:He essentially took out Kimi:

Please, don't make me laugh.
Hamilton wouldn't have even made it through his debut season in Formula 1 if he wasn't driving in bulletproof machines, rather than the literal coffins on four wheels they used back in the sixties:

Give me a break.
Hamilton wouldn't have survived a single season in F1 if he wasn't driving bulletproof machines—not these rolling coffins they used back in the 60s:
[/I]

Fine, here's a snippet. Let’s look at the objective data—if you can even call it that 🙂
https://www.statsf1.com/en/statistiq...s/abandon.aspx

Out of all the drivers who have competed in a significant number of races, Bottas is actually the only one ahead of Lewis with fewer DNFs in the history of this sport—Perez follows them. Of course, Lewis has been around longer, which honestly makes his numbers even more impressive.

Now, obviously, this isn't the most perfect way to analyze things since we don't have full crash statistics, but it's pretty clear that Lewis is one of the best in the current era when it comes to staying on the track. In the rain, he might be the greatest ever—so Lewis definitely isn't one of those modern drivers who would have stood a prayer back in the day. Max is a different story entirely...

Essentially, this whole mess with the oversized DRS opening suggests that Mercedes has completely run out of legitimate technical solutions for the rest of the season.
They tried to spin a narrative about power unit adjustments and settle for a one-off five-place grid penalty, but... well, nobody bought it.

Honestly, if they’re allowed to get away with using this "modified" rear wing today and tomorrow, there’s really no point in even watching this Grand Prix weekend.

And there you have it, my wingman actually telling him to let Luxury through at one very specific corner... 🙂
The Safety Car caught him right on the turn 🙂

ruggedhawk20 said:You aren't paying attention, kid.

I’m not talking about Hockenheim in '68—I’m talking about Monza in '61, where a driving error caused another driver's death. Wolfgang von Trips.

Plus about 15 spectators at the end of the track too.

Senna basically killed himself. This guy carries sixteen people on his soul.

There's zero discussion—those numbers don't make him the GOAT.

My bad. Thanks for the clarification. Still holds the same thesis, though...

He’s starting from 20th because his qualifying results were stripped away. They’re going to fit a wing on the car that actually complies with the regulations, allowing him to compete properly. I honestly don't see what the big deal is here.
DRS measurements happen all the time, and we haven't run into any issues until now.

Safety Car, 🤦🤦 .......that just wipes away all the advantage Red Bull had.

ruggedhawk20 said:You aren't paying attention, kid.

I’m not talking about Hockenheim in '68—I’m talking about Monza in '61, where a driving error caused another driver's death. Wolfgang von Trips.

Plus about 15 spectators at the end of the track too.

Senna basically killed himself. This guy carries sixteen people on his soul.

There's zero discussion—those numbers don't make him the GOAT.

That category you're bringing up feels pretty irrelevant to me.🤔 So what? Anyone stepping into a car has to accept the risks they create, just like the fans who choose to sit right in the middle of all that action.

Plus, if I remember correctly, it was Trips who hit Clark, not the other way around.🤔

Jack Kelly5 said:Disqualified, but somehow still getting on the grid. We're looking at a car that doesn't even meet the technical regulations, yet it's somehow two seconds faster than most of the top four, which basically means it's a lock for a top five finish tonight. It’s just a total circus, honestly. I mean, does anyone else feel like this happens? Like, when someone actually gets caught cheating, but then everyone just acts like it's fine and lets them race anyway?
😬

I mean, there's no way they'll keep running with that same wing

Elizabeth Mendoza said:At that moment, Lewis Hamilton was basically cruising toward a win.

Yeah,

shadowmarlin22 said:Give me a break.
Hamilton wouldn't have survived a single season in F1 if he wasn't driving bulletproof machines—not these rolling coffins they used back in the 60s:
[/I]

Fine, here's a snippet. Let’s look at the objective data—if you can even call it that 🙂
https://www.statsf1.com/en/statistiq...s/abandon.aspx

Out of all the drivers who have competed in a significant number of races, Bottas is actually the only one ahead of Lewis with fewer DNFs in the history of this sport—Perez follows them. Of course, Lewis has been around longer, which honestly makes his numbers even more impressive.

Now, obviously, this isn't the most perfect way to analyze things since we don't have full crash statistics, but it's pretty clear that Lewis is one of the best in the current era when it comes to staying on the track. In the rain, he might be the greatest ever—so Lewis definitely isn't one of those modern drivers who would have stood a prayer back in the day. Max is a different story entirely...

Jim Clark lost his life because of the very type of mechanical failure Lewis experienced, rather than due to any error in his own driving. Jim Clark drove a car that was notoriously temperamental and fragile, yet he completed four times fewer races than Lewis. Hamilton, meanwhile, has wielded the most dominant and reliable machine in history, managing to pull off eight Grand Slams. Back in 1963, at Spa, he left the rest of the field five minutes behind him despite having a broken gearbox. It leads one to wonder: wasn't Jim Clark a sort of understated, humble alien who simply drove faster than everyone else could possibly imagine, seemingly baffled by why the others were so slow? He represented everything Hamilton aspires to be, yet can never truly become.

Hey folks, does anyone happen to have a working stream link? I'm currently lying here feeling pretty broken in the hospital, and I just realized that none of the links I had open on my computer browser actually work on my phone... thanks

There is absolutely no way Red Bull can defend this. Without a defense, they're just looking at a 1-2 finish.

shadowmarlin22 said:Exactly. In this sport, the primary goal is just staying alive—everything else is secondary. That’s why Fangio and Lewis hold such weight—though Lewis eventually overtook Schumacher in that regard.
Fangio’s percentages are incredible—pole positions, win rates, titles—but Lewis’s raw numbers are just staggering.
Sure, names like Clark, Schumacher, or Senna make a case, but there are massive holes in those arguments. The fact that you had to survive being on the grid with Senna or Clark is the biggest hole of all—tragic, but true.
In my view, Max will likely be categorized more as one of the fastest single-lap drivers rather than the greatest overall. Senna is almost certainly the fastest, followed by Lewis, then Clark, Fangio, and Schumacher—the five quickest to ever do it.

🤦 Back in Senna's era, survival wasn't even really the primary goal of the sport, let alone today. If Lewis drove with the same style as Fangio, he'd be running five or six seconds off his current best times.

🤦 Sure, you could argue that because someone passed away, we can't fully know their peak performance or longevity, but that doesn't make them the best. He was gone after ten seasons with three titles and three runner-up finishes. I'm interpreting what you said as "if he had survived, he would have been one of the top five all-time," but since he didn't, he isn't—and honestly, that feels like a bit of a logical stretch to me.🤦

Would they seriously just keep running with the same wing after getting DQ'd for it? Like, then they’d just have to DQ him again right after the sprint ends. Some people's logic is straight-up quantum physics at this point. 🙏

Anyway, both of them deserved the penalty.

Yuki Tsunoda has gone and collided with Red Bull again!🤣

“I feel like we took way too many punches to the face this weekend—decisions that could have swung either way, for or against us. That’s what I’m angry about, and I’m going to stand up for my team and my drivers, period. I usually try to handle these things with a bit of diplomacy, but today, the diplomacy is officially over.”

“The whole weekend just felt rigged against us. We had a broken rear wing component that we weren't even allowed to inspect or analyze... then we get hit with a disqualification that was incredibly strict. Meanwhile, we get to watch Red Bull tweak their rear wing three different times while the car is sitting in Parc Fermé without any repercussions at all. That’s one thing, but the peak of it was the race decision—which was, in my opinion, just... aggressive defense from Max.”

“It was absolutely over the line, but he felt he had to defend. Lewis managed to pull off an even more brilliant move to avoid contact and finish the way he did. The defense was excessive—he should have at least taken a five-second penalty, and honestly, I think Max knows it. Sweeping this under the rug is just the icing on the cake. It's ridiculous,” Wolff said.

I mean, come on. They just want the golden boy to take the championship. Typical.

So, let me get this straight: he starts the sprint from the very back, and then on top of that, he’s forced to drop another five positions in the main race?