Bad Boys - Part IV

Matthew Foster8 said:A lot of you said the same thing—that you wouldn't be able to handle the pressure if you were in Miami. I don't know, though... even here, when someone comes from outside the city, they end up being shuttled in and out of games under heavy security. I honestly can't imagine what kind of fool would actually try to deal with him in everyday life. But the truth is, there's just so much corruption and decay right now that I'm hesitant to dive too deep into that whole mess. Back in the day, Stimac was removed when he was just as powerful as Mamic—maybe even more dangerous—but then again, Mamic is a total psychopath, a sick individual, and I don't even know. These last few years have just shown how easily people can be tamed, fooled, and conditioned to accept misery. It makes me feel like this country is just a place people want to leave.
I saw that news about the Chelsea fan who got banned from the stadium—the whole world picked it up in a heartbeat. By that logic, our situation with checking everyone's IDs and arresting a hundred people on the way out should be the lead story on CNN. And then you've got a government official supporting sending people to mental hospitals. It’s like something straight out of a Monty Python sketch.

The stuff about Stimac really bothers me—comparing him to Mamic is just ridiculous. But I guess the most important part of your point is that you either can't see, or maybe you just don't want to see, that this isn't just about how Mamic treats us. Sure, we're the first ones targeted, but he does this to you guys too.
He rigs matches, picks the refs, hands out trophies like they're nothing, chooses the national team coach, the federation president, and so on. Basically, nothing happens in American soccer without his knowledge—and worse, without his blessing.
He turns your club into some tiny, insignificant provincial outfit. And then you say if he were in Miami, you'd "deal with him" one way or another... but it doesn't matter where he lives, where he sleeps, or what he drives. It matters that he pulls the strings that affect your club, all of us, and American soccer in general.
Then he shows up at your stadium and starts acting out like that—it's just the icing on the cake. You talk about how things are here, but what would you actually do? What would happen then?
All of this affects you too. Maybe the repression isn't quite the same today, but hey, we'll see what happens tomorrow.

Matthew Foster8 said:I don't even want to get into who was the bigger mobster back then, or who was opening doors for whom and shaking hands with both hands—you guys either have no clue or you've just forgotten. Stimac got pushed out of Miami right when he was at his peak. It’s never been written about, and honestly, it probably never will be. After that, Mamic started making massive money off transfers and things just kept growing. These guys today aren't even in the same league.
It's really your own fault that Mamic even reached the level he's at now. Back then, the fans handled Igor's situation early on, while now they're trying to act like what Mamic is being. But I won't go on about it—just out of respect for the people who actually stepped up and risked their lives back then in direct conflict with criminals...
Just stupid talk, I'm done talking about this, and I don't really know any of you anyway. You're just saying whatever you feel like.
The only thing I don't get is how this guy can live in the city every single day, regardless of who's watching him.

And this part is just ridiculous—when Stimac tried to act tough in Miami, he was basically taken out by another local criminal clan. Even though he supposedly hired people for protection from one group, the other group he crossed was simply stronger. That has nothing to do with soccer or the fans, and it doesn't belong on a forum like this.
It was quite simply a showdown within the Miami criminal underworld. Why are you even bringing this up?

Matthew Foster8 said:I’m not interested in playing this game—debating who was the bigger mobster back then, or who was opening doors and shaking hands with both hands. You either don't get it or you've forgotten. Stimac got pushed out of Miami right when he was at his peak. That stuff was never written about, and it never will be. After that, Mamic started pulling in massive amounts of money from transfers, and the pile just keeps growing. Today, his current crew isn't even in the same league.
It's your own fault that Mamic even reached this level of influence. Igor's crowd handled him early on, while he’s currently trying to become whatever Mamic is now. But I won't dwell on it, purely out of respect for the people who actually put everything on the line and risked their lives in direct conflict with actual criminals.
Pointless chatter. I'm done talking about it, and frankly, I don't know any of you. You just say whatever you feel like saying.
The only thing I can't wrap my head around is how this guy can live in your city every single day, regardless of who is guarding him.

Then explain one thing to me: whenever it suits your narrative, you constantly push the idea that there were only maybe 100 or 200 of you up in the North Stand standing against Stimac during that 2005 championship celebration, acting like you were going against the entire stadium celebrating the title and Ćiro and everyone else. Yet, in situations like this, you flip the script entirely, claiming Miami would never have accepted Mamic or that he wouldn't do this or that. You call Miami the craziest city on earth, yet that little guy stood in front of a packed house and celebrated a goal just a few months ago... And every single one of you would swear on your life, or your grandmother's life, or whatever else you have, that it would be impossible for someone to tell you the exact same scenario in Miami.

It was the same story this summer regarding those Americans; half of Miami suddenly caught a fever for privatization. I think it's irrelevant, but let's be realistic. We are a tiny corner of the US, and within that, there are a hundred different mindsets. It's all the same nonsense.

Let’s be clear: hats off to you, and there’s no way you’d ever allow someone like Miskovic to practically lead your cheering section like those guys did two days ago. You only avoided a brawl because they didn't tear each other apart when Miskovic started throwing scarves after the match. It's a miracle he didn't manage to throw 🤣 but don't try to sell me these myths...

I honestly love the idea of us all catching an NYC game on a massive video wall—just grabbing some beers, messing around, cheering our heads off, and setting off some flares 🤷

And you really think they wouldn't just roll in with 500 riot police and start arresting everyone in sight?

Matthew Foster8 said:I don't even feel like getting into this. Who was the bigger mobster back then? Who was opening doors for whom and shaking hands with both hands? You guys have no clue, or you just forgot. Štimac got pushed out of town right when things were peaking. It’s never been written about, and it never will be. After that, Mamić started pulling in massive transfer money and his influence grew. Nowadays, he doesn't even care about the fans anymore.
Your mistake is thinking Mamić shouldn't have reached this level at all. Back then, the hardcore supporters were dealt with early on, while now he's trying to act like what he is today. But I'm done talking about it—purely out of respect for the people who actually risked their necks back then by going head-to-head with criminals.
Stupid talk. I'm done with this, and I don't know any of you anyway. You're just saying whatever you feel like.
The only thing I don't get is how you can live in this city every single day, regardless of who's watching over him.

You've got a point, but you're forgetting that during the stabilization of his rule and Mamić's initial rise, the BBB had just finished nine years of fighting for their reputation. Most people weren't crazy enough to jump straight into another war. We just wanted to finally go to games and cheer for our team without drama. That's exactly what Head exploited.

There were a few of us sounding the alarm, and I could list ten people from the inner circle right now. The rest either didn't get it or simply didn't give a damn. Eventually, he started playing favorites and digging dirt on people. Actually, he never stopped digging. Not since he first showed up at the club in '94. Over time, people finally started waking up. Back then, nobody believed me when I said Head was behind the crackdown. Today, everyone believes me.

You guys are the exact opposite. When there was the showdown with Štimac, we finally had a real generation after that joke of a crowd in the 90s. That group wanted to prove they were nothing like what came before. And we had Pave, God rest his soul. A massive, unshakeable man and a true fan.

Why am I always ready? Because we aren’t playing on a level playing field. We're the ones who had to walk out, and we're the ones screaming at Mamić to get lost. This championship was decided long before it even started anyway. We earned the right to blow off some steam and spit in their faces—because while a thousand or two of us are actually out here living and enjoying ourselves, they're just rotting away in an empty stadium.

casualwolf48 said:This whole thing is a joke. When he tried to act tough back in Miami, a different local gang just stepped in and handled him. Even if you consider his crew a real gang, they were basically just looking for protection, and the other guys were simply more powerful. This has nothing to do with football or the local supporters, and it definitely doesn't belong on this forum.
It was just a turf war within the Miami underworld. Why are you even bringing this up?

Buddy, you are completely wrong. Totally off base. Trust me, Matthew Foster8 knows exactly what happened, so stop trying to act superior by dragging someone else down. Honestly, you people have no clue what was actually going on in the city during those years, and we never felt the need to broadcast it. Just leave us alone with your shallow observations; go deal with your own problems. And don't forget that we helped you out with plenty of things—way more than you ever did for us. That’s all I have to say; I don't see the point in arguing further.

At the end of the day, every single argument just boils down to who’s packing more heat 😁

It would have been a real blessing if the Rose Bowl had stayed completely empty for the final game

casualwolf48 said:I honestly don't care about the petty details, and trying to compare him to Mamić is just laughable. But the real point in your reply—the part you either can't see or refuse to acknowledge—is that this isn't just about what he's doing to us. Sure, we're the first ones getting hit, but Mamić does this to everyone.
He rigs matches, hand-picks the refs, hands out trophies like they're candy, picks the national team coach, the federation president, you name it. Basically, nothing happens in American soccer without his input, and more importantly, without his blessing.
He’s turning your club into some tiny, insignificant little provincial outfit. And then you claim that because he's down in Miami, we could somehow deal with him one way or another... man, what does it matter where he lives, what he drives, or when he pulls the strings that affect your club, all of us, and American soccer as a whole?
Then there's that whole scene at the stadium where things just boil over. Like the icing on a very bitter cake. And you're acting like it's just a local issue, saying "we'd handle it if it were here." Well, what exactly would you do? What's the plan?
All of this affects you too. It touches everything. It's just that the repression isn't as blatant as it used to be—not today, anyway. But tomorrow? We'll see.

I really don't have the energy to get into a half-hearted back-and-forth about who did what or why. Does it matter where he lives? Of course it matters, but I'm not going to dive into those specifics right now.
Everything you said is true. While everyone else was looking the other way, I was saying the exact same thing a long time ago. In this mess that's been dragging on for years, we should have stopped pretending everything was fine and celebrating some pathetic three points. When things don't make sense, they don't make sense. You fight the battle first, then you play the game. It feels stupid to even talk about it now since I've stepped back from all of this and distanced myself. All I know is that we are way too late to fix any of it.
As for the rest, certain people in the fan groups basically stood up to the criminals, but it all happened far away from the public eye. It wasn't some grand showdown between gangs or anything; things just got settled behind closed doors.

--

It’s a pretty thin line between everything coming together and a total meltdown, isn't it? 😉

Come on, people... look at all these diagnoses. Why aren't people actually out in the streets? Why won't anyone show up? Then you read all these sermon-like posts about what we "should" be doing... sometimes I even catch those silly op-eds by some random columnist on a site like Huffington Post. She’s calling for revolutions and protests and whatnot, but honestly, she can barely string two sentences together when I see her on TV. Her writing might be okay, I guess, but I seriously doubt she's even the one writing it...
We had someone like a visionary leader once who had such a brilliant, damn good idea—so what happened? Nothing. Absolutely nothing.
If dear Jesus came among Americans, nobody would follow Him or His message. Instead, they’d probably just try to stab Him or find some way to look out for themselves through someone who knows somebody important.

Stop kidding yourselves and face reality: most Americans are just looking for a steady paycheck. In this country, "who you know" is the most important thing in any family. Even if certain sports fan groups seem totally righteous, with their big ideals and pure intentions—maybe even the only clean thing left in this whole nation—just take a look at who is actually sitting in those stands. You don't even have to go inside to know them... I’m not attacking anyone, really, but I’d bet my life that 60% or 70% of people would give up a kidney just to have a connection in politics or government to secure a job. It’s not about the stadium; it’s about our mentality. And hey, it’s not even "bad" per se because everyone wants security, but it shows how much the system and the government have screwed us over for decades.
Out of 1,000 people in a crowd, I’m convinced you’d find maybe 100—if that—who are truly pure, upright, and moral. Everything else is for sale. In this sluggish society and given our economic situation, after years of depression, the state of the community is just mirrored in the stands and nowhere else.

Sometimes I wonder who all these "righteous" fans on this forum are. They lecture us about honesty, protests, ideals, and loyalty, yet if you saw those same people in person at a gas station or in the stands, you'd see them looting stores, beating people senseless with metal pipes or heavy rocks, or throwing flares. We end up waving the flag of the Vatican, shouting about Jesus and Christianity, yet you can count the people who don't swear by God on one hand.

People just lie to themselves.

stormybison9 said:honestly, guys...
...
people just love lying to themselves.

Bravo.👍

There are a few big differences between Štimac and Mamić. First off—the mayor. In San Diego, you don't have anyone obsessed with that office, but in a place like New York, the mayor and the guy running the show are basically the same person. This isn't even really about Štimac or the local ultras—it’s more about how long those guys can stay in power. That old mayor was a total disgrace to the city and essentially created Mamić.

Then there's the results. Look, Štimac got absolutely demolished 8-0 by Debrecen, and honestly, it’s always easier to dig at the front office when the team is playing like trash. The fans took full advantage of that. The folks from Chicago had their chance too—they were stuck fighting in the relegation zone—but back then, the priority was just screaming "fat pig, no mercy" at whoever was in charge. Mamić just rolled with it, and after two years of nothing, you guys finally won the championship last year and that's that. 🙂

The people saying Mamić and Štimac are the same? They aren't wrong. They're practically twins. What am I even trying to say here? To me, it was easier for the Split fans because they didn't have some "guaranteed" mayor ready to dump hundreds of millions into the club, and there weren't enough wins to shut everyone up. On the flip side, the Split fans were decisive from day one and seized every opportunity, whereas the Bad Boys were always kind of wishy-washy regarding Mamić—they carry some of the blame too, regardless of how much harder things were for them objectively.

I am not entirely certain how much consolation this might provide, but I find myself unable to adequately express the sheer misery of conceding that goal in the 97th minute to those absolute lunatics at the Dallas Cowboys...

analogstag16 said:Why, Anthony Barrett37? Because we aren't sitting in the seats we paid for, because we shut the game down, because we’re out here calling Jerry Maguire names? This tournament is basically over anyway. I guess we deserve to have some fun and just stick it to them. We've got maybe 1,000 or 2,000 of us actually enjoying ourselves while they rot in an empty stadium.

If it's over something like flares, then sure. But just to be clear, I'm generally all for that kind of thing, though I suppose you have to be careful, just like you are in the stands.

stormybison9 said:Give me a break... all these diagnoses about why people aren't out in the streets protesting, followed by those preachy essays about what should happen... sometimes I read those dumb pieces by Vedrana Rudan on Index. She’s calling for revolutions and protests and whatever, but honestly, she can barely string two sentences together when I see her on TV. Her writing is okay, I guess, but I seriously doubt she even writes it herself...
We had guys like Hamed Bangour who had such a killer idea—a freaking great idea—so what happened? Nothing. Absolutely nothing.
If Jesus himself showed up among Americans, nobody would follow him or his message; they’d just stab him and try to get ahead through someone who knows someone.

Stop lying to yourselves. Realize that Americans are just a bunch of sellouts looking for a handout, where connections and nepotism are the backbone of every family. Even if the sports fan groups seem legit, with their supposed ideals and being maybe the only pure thing left in this whole country, just look at who's actually sitting in the stands. You don't even have to go inside to know who they are... I'm not hating on anyone, but I'd bet anything that 60 or 70% of them would sell their own kidney just to land a connection in politics or some government office for a steady paycheck... It's not about the stadium, it's our mentality, and it isn't even "bad"—people want security—but it shows how much the system and this country have screwed us over for decades.
Out of 1,000 people in the stands, I'm certain you wouldn't find more than 100 who are actually clean, decent, or moral. Everything else is for sale. In this sluggish society and after years of economic depression, the rot in the stands is just a mirror of the rot everywhere else.

Sometimes I wonder who all these "righteous" fans on this forum are—the ones lecturing everyone about honesty, protests, and ideals. In real life, at a gas station or in the stands, you'd see these same people robbing gas stations, beating people senseless with pipes and rocks or flares, or waving the Vatican flag and shouting about Jesus and Christianity, while you could count the people who don't swear at God on one hand.

People lie to themselves.

Facts. But it's also true that this whole socialist-nepotism-cronyism system is on the verge of collapsing, and we need to rock the boat to speed it up. And who better to do that than the fans?

stormybison9 said:people are just lying to themselves

You hit the nail on the head. People lie to themselves constantly, hypocrisy is everywhere, and most folks are far too busy looking out for their own interests to care about anything else. That’s just how the world turns, I suppose.

Honestly, look at our numbers—the ratio of workers to retirees is getting dangerously close to a breaking point. We’ve got over 200,000 people tied up in the public sector alone. The public just cycles through two main political parties, voting for the same old thing in the next election even when things couldn't possibly be any worse than they already are.

As for protests... please. In California, everything revolves around retail and a tourism industry that's basically exploding right now. That's really all there is to it. If it's a nice winter day, or especially during the spring or fall, the streets are packed with people grabbing coffee. Everyone finds a way to scrape by, even though I don't think I've ever seen this much poverty on the streets as I have lately.

Tourism is basically carrying the whole damn country on its back... the season in San Francisco lasts about four or five months now. Throw in people flocking to Coachella, and you've got a vibe. Half my friends work exclusively during the season and then spend the rest of the year trying to stretch those earnings out.

There's no real manufacturing left. I could go on forever. We're basically just a New York City without the substance; nothing comes from us. Just a bunch of peasants sucking up to Washington, D.C. under the table. It's pathetic.

Austin Watson38 said:Buddy, you're dead wrong. Completely. Trust me, the old guard knows what they're talking about. Stop trying to act superior by dragging others down. Look, you guys have zero clue what actually went down in the States during those years, and we never even brought it up much. Drop the surface-level lecturing and leave us alone. You've got plenty of your own problems to deal with, and don't forget we helped you out with a ton of stuff—way more than you ever did for us. That's it. I'm done responding.

Check my previous post on the page. No matter how much you try to deny it, you can't ignore that your fight against Don King was partially inspired by our earlier struggle for our identity. You wanted to prove that the Black and Gold Army could be an opposition force and move past the total disgrace of the 90s.

It doesn't matter who helped who more. We all influence each other. Sometimes one side leads, sometimes the other. It’s not a coincidence that political scenes in different countries look similar. An American group will always resemble an American group, just like Russians resemble Russians or Germans resemble Germans. The influence is real.