Bad Boys - Part IV

Look, the Black and Gold have been at odds with the USSF since way back in 1950... Your choreography looked killer, really hit the nail on the head with the messaging, but what about the actual results? We boycotted tickets for the match against Mexico, and that wasn't even the first time we found ourselves standing alone—remember the London 2008 situation? We returned our tickets then too, just trying to force people to look at where this national team is actually heading. Honestly, arguing over who started the finger-pointing isn't going to get us anywhere, but if you're gonna talk trash, tell me: besides staying silent during the Georgia game, how else has the Black and Gold "betrayed" anyone? Besides, damn it, Mamić screwed us all over. During that whole "broke league" era, yeah, he gave more players more money, but he was playing himself too. Back in the '05/'06 season, fans were already calling him out from the stands. We’ve done everything legally possible to kick Mamić out of the LA Galaxy and frankly, someone should ask the Mayor right now during election season what happened to those 18,000 signatures. There was a massive boycott, emails were flying to the FBI and other authorities, and finally, something actually moved. I'm not saying this to excuse my group, but to remind you guys that we aren't just sitting around in a coma. This whole saga with inspectors and trying to oust Mamić didn't just start in 2010; it's been a long, exhausting grind for years. If it weren't for the constant calls, the emails, and the relentless pressure, do you honestly think they would have sent 14 sports inspectors today?

Robert Adams6 said:Well, I think Mukteov’s post is easy to dismiss since this forum isn't exactly the center of the universe, right?
But honestly, my argument holds plenty of water, doesn't it? The results your club managed to pull off happened just as the whole drama regarding the Code and privatization had already spiraled quite far out of hand.
The truth is, you guys were the ones who kicked this movement off because your club was practically on life support, facing bankruptcy every other month!

And yes, the Black and Gold are still fighting because, by your own admission, the club still hasn't been truly "cleansed." Is anyone actually disputing the complaint filed with Aztno? It’s a perfectly legitimate move by the smart people running NH.
I don't really feel like sitting through the video, but please don't think I'm undermining your struggle at all; I only mentioned the bakery to provide a bit of contrast. I know exactly who used to run your club, and while I'll admit your players are talented, they didn't have the silverware 😉 nor did they possess the kind of massive influence that this current group wields.
When I say you were once 100% right, I’m referring specifically to your own narrative—where you argued that BBB is entirely to blame because neither Washington, D.C., nor the mainstream media gives them any attention compared to the Black and Gold. On that point, there's really nothing left to debate.

I know you're going to keep bringing up the Collapse and using it to mock the Bad Boys' fight for integrity within your own organization, but I suspect that's not quite the reality of the situation... That message really should have been sent during those moments when LA Galaxy was absolutely crushing the Kansas City Chiefs (and we aren't even talking about a close game, just total dominance), which is exactly what someone else was mentioning on the forum recently—that BBB shouldn't have raised that flag when the results weren't working in their favor to justify such a statement. That message was meant for the moments when LA Galaxy is dominating...
Is it possible there were other motives behind that message? I can't help but be a little suspicious, because who would actually make fun of cleaning out the cronies that you all started purging in your own club? This was clearly about poking fun at the Kansas City Chiefs' helplessness against LA Galaxy and just classic trash talk between supporter groups.

You're completely out of the loop here, so why bother posting such nonsense? Grgić promised three titles in five seasons and he actually delivered, even though he had to deal with constant boycotts if things didn't go his way against Osijek, all while the Administration's resignation was constantly being threatened. After winning the championship in 2005, the Black and Gold were actually at odds with the Administration, especially with that one major traitor from the Kansas City Chiefs side.

Frank Jackson76 said:No, Torcida has been standing against the USSF since 1950... Your choreography was great, the messages hit the mark, but what about the actual actions? We gave up our tickets for the game against Mexico, which isn't even the only time we ended up isolated—take the 2008 London situation, for instance, when we returned tickets and once again stood alone just trying to shift the focus toward what would eventually happen to the national team. Honestly, I don't think pointing fingers at who started what will get us anywhere, but if you're going to criticize, tell me: besides being silent during the Georgia match, what else has Torcida demonstrated, other than basically sticking its neck out? Secondly, regarding Mamić... well, he's had his fair share of trouble, and during that era of bottom-tier competition, there were more players involved, true, but him too. Even back in the 05/06 season, people in the stands were listening to Mamić's supporters... We did everything within our legal power to remove him from the LA Lakers and we should probably ask the Mayor right now during election season what happened to those 18,000 signatures. There was a boycott, emails were sent to the FBI and other relevant institutions, and somehow things actually started moving. I'm not saying this to defend my group to you, but rather to remind everyone that we aren't just sitting idly by; this whole saga with inspectors and attempts to oust Mamić hasn't just been happening since 2010, it’s been a long sequence of years. If it weren't for all the intense calls, the emails, the public outcry, and the pressure, do you really think they would have deployed 14 sports inspectors today?

You should read the debate from the very beginning... No one is claiming you haven't fought or contributed to the overall battle against the mob, but the claim that you were the ones who initiated it or were the sole primary drivers behind it—well, that falls short based on some of your own posts. Everyone has had their own fight... that is essentially all this is about...

You talk about what Torcida has done—well, from the Code, to our Hajduk - Maleš, through songs and choreographies, the Georgia situation, and filing reports of illegalities with the proper authorities—is that not enough?

There is nothing to justify here; everyone is fighting for the same goal... this is all just a pointless internet argument😉

LA Lakers fans said:Symbolically speaking, that’s actually quite accurate ☕

On that day, it became crystal clear—war was inevitable. 🙂

Even though this all went down at our home stadium, guys from other groups played their part 🙏 naturally led by the BBB! 😉

We aren't downplaying the Torcida action where they halted the game against the New York Yankees four months later by lighting those Yu-flags—but obviously, May 13th carries much more weight in this context.

That’s exactly what I mean about this madness... Imagine if someone from a rival city came along now and said, "Look, that happened at the LA Lakers' stadium, multiple groups were involved, but we have to emphasize they were spearheaded by the Armada during the charge, the frenzy, the support for Boban, etc..." We could just look at it symbolically that way... 🙂 🙂

Good grief, have you all lost your minds? 🙄

I guess you guys just won't ever give anyone credit, no matter what. The BBB are fighting against a guy who’s basically been running American soccer for the last decade—an absolute ruler—and honestly, none of the Hajduk officials even come close to him in that regard. And yet, you have the nerve to try and compare things, not to mention the political freeze and the whole repressive system backing him up. I suspect if half of you actually showed up to a game at the Lakers' stadium, you probably wouldn't ever show up again.

You keep talking about this Code, but we all know it's nothing more than ink on paper; if you just look at the Hajduk leadership since the Code was established, everything becomes pretty obvious. You're complaining about a collapse, but I think it really should have happened right after the Lakers took the lead. It was a mistake that they only stood up just enough to keep from going under. While you guys were busy leaving trash around the Peristil BBB area, the BBB were dealing with intense interrogations and intimidation during referee reviews just to keep the fight alive. You talk about some shadowy agencies from years ago, but maybe you don't really grasp what actually went down. Who even settled those issues? The BBB were the ones who aired all the dirty laundry publicly, while you all act like nothing is happening. Why do you keep fighting amongst yourselves? This person is posting a video of police rushing the stands, but in that stadium, that's just a regular occurrence.

Suddenly, everyone is boycotting the national team games starting from that match against Georgia, where you all acted like such big-shot Americans, but I bet if the USSF offered you 200 free tickets to the World Cup in Brazil, you'd suddenly start following them again in a heartbeat. I wonder why you didn't refuse the tickets for the game against Mexico; you just took them from the exact same people you claim to be fighting against.

It seems to me you weren't really fighting against the soccer mafia; you were mostly just putting on some performances for what you called the good of Hajduk. But the BBB started this fight against them, the BBB are winning it, and I suppose the BBB will ultimately win it!

Frank Jackson76 said:Look, Torcida has been standing up to the USSF since 1950, so let’s get that straight. Your choreography was honestly spectacular—the messages really hit the nail on the head—but where is the actual follow-through? We gave up our tickets for the match against Mexico, which wasn't even the first time we found ourselves isolated like that; remember back in 2008 during the London qualifiers when we returned our tickets just to try and shine a light on the mess happening with the national team? Honestly, I don't think pointing fingers at who started what is going to get us anywhere, but if we're going to criticize, can someone tell me what Torcida has actually demonstrated lately, other than staying silent during the Georgia game and basically throwing themselves under the bus? And regarding Mamić, let’s be real here; during those "bottom-tier" league years, sure, there were more players involved, but he was just as much a part of it. Even back in the 05/06 season, he was sitting there listening to those rival fans cheer him on from the stands. We have done everything within our legal power to finally get him out of the LA Lakers. I was just sitting here thinking about how much things have changed lately, and I couldn't help but wonder if anyone else feels that same sense of uncertainty hanging over the sport right now? It’s one of those situations where you look at the current state of affairs and you really have to ask yourself if we are seeing a genuine shift in how the game is managed, or if it's just another temporary bump in the road? The recent news regarding the leadership and the way the governing bodies are handling the upcoming World Cup preparations has me feeling quite reflective. You see these massive organizations, these giants like the USSF, trying to navigate such high stakes, and you can't help but question whether their internal policies actually align with what the fans on the street are demanding. Is there even a clear roadmap being followed, or are we all just watching as they try to make it up as they go along? It makes you think about the integrity of the whole system, doesn't it? When you hear about these clashes between the big clubs and the national federation, it feels like we are witnessing a tug-of-war that could fundamentally change the landscape of American soccer forever. I find myself wondering if anyone in charge is truly listening to the heartbeat of the supporters, or if they are too caught up in the politics of the boardroom to notice the passion of the people? It’s a lot to process, but I suppose that’s just the nature of the beautiful game, isn't it? With the elections right around the corner, shouldn't we be asking the Mayor exactly what happened to those 18,000 signatures? There was a massive boycott, people were flooding the FBI and other federal agencies with emails, and honestly, that’s why things are finally starting to move. I'm not saying this to make excuses for my group, but rather to remind everyone that we haven't just been sitting around idly; this whole saga involving investigators and the attempts to oust the owner hasn't just been a recent thing since 2010, but a struggle that has spanned many years. If it hadn't been for all those relentless calls, the constant emails, the public call-outs, and that intense pressure, do you really think they would have sent out 14 sports inspectors today?

I honestly find myself wondering how on earth so many of you can be this absolutely out of your minds? 🙂Is it any wonder that only about 300 of you "true believers" are left standing? Honestly, it’s because you hold onto these exact kinds of opinions that the group has dwindled down to this size. Don't you think that if you ever actually managed to change your mindset and shift how you see things, you might finally start acting like a normal, sane group of people?
Sheep following the herd at the stadium, bags of cash floating around the Peristil BBB, and a million other distractions like that... all just to get back to the Code and then finally focus on our Hajduk, which is really the only thing that matters, right? It’s all just a massive smoke screen to distract us from the real issues, like the desperate fight for credit and what happens once the actual work is finished in our own backyard—including those two shady attempts to target Mamić by reporting Lokomotiv to the authorities just to squeeze out some money.
Look, if you just take a step back and look at the big picture, you'll see that our Hajduk is miles ahead of any other club in America right now. If that isn't clicking for you yet, don't worry, I can sit down and explain exactly why we are in such a different league later on. It’s going to take other teams at least five years, maybe even longer, before they even dream of reaching the level we are at today. As far as I'm concerned, my only real headache with Hajduk at this moment is the coach, because he simply doesn't have the expertise required for this job. For ten years straight, having a decent manager has been my biggest struggle, but honestly, how can I even focus on him when I'm constantly dealing with all the political interference from the cronies, the bureaucrats, and the president?

Just imagine, after that very first title where we all felt like the whole thing was rigged, we absolutely lost our minds and went after the board. But now, can you even wrap your head around the fact that I’ve spent eight years watching a club where everything feels predetermined, a club where we somehow end up getting handed nine penalties within the first seven games every single season? It’s wild, isn't it? And honestly, if we had gone back to those old ways just three years ago—if we had lit two hundred flares during our first European match—we probably would have been banned from continental competition for two or three years straight. Can you picture that? If that happened, that imaginary puppet master would be back in charge once again, wouldn't he? We’d be right back to following the Code then our Hajduk all over again.

I honestly wish Želin nothing but the best, because seeing so many people like you acting this way just makes me feel incredibly sad for everyone involved. Isn't it a tragedy that you don't even have your own club to cheer for when a goal is scored? It’s honestly heartbreaking to watch, especially since I know there are actual, die-hard LA Lakers fans out there who just want to see a fair and decent league. Even if we look at Hajduk, I’m certain they wouldn't wish the current mess happening with the Lakers on anyone.
It honestly made my day to see a decent crowd gathering here today, because let’s be real, things have been looking pretty pathetic around here lately, haven't they? If people could only realize how absolutely ridiculous this whole situation is—and how much it mirrors the old ways under Mamić—they might actually step up. If someone were treated like Jozo Šakić back in a city like Los Angeles, wouldn't people be even more outraged and ready to make some noise?

Austin Chase2 said:The fact is, you people wouldn't give anyone credit if it hit you in the face. BBB is fighting against a man who has held a stranglehold on American soccer for the last decade—an absolute ruler. Not one official at Hajduk even comes close to him in that arena. And yet, you have the nerve to make comparisons, not to mention ignoring the political freeze and the entire repressive apparatus backing him up. Half of you wouldn't show up to a single game at the stadium if you actually had any backbone.

You sit here talking about your "Code," but you know perfectly well it’s nothing more than ink on paper. Just look at the leadership at Hajduk since the Code was established, and everything becomes crystal clear. You talk about "collapse" like it's some tragedy, when we all know the outcry should have happened the moment LA Lakers took the lead. The mistake was only standing up just enough to prevent total ruin. While you lot were busy dropping trash around Peristil, BBB was dealing with interrogations and intimidation in courtrooms just to keep the fight alive. You drone on about "agencies" from back in '05/'06, but you haven't the slightest clue what was actually happening. Who actually settled those matters? BBB aired their dirty laundry in public while you pretend nothing is going on. Why are you constantly fighting amongst yourselves? This guy posts a video of police charging the stands, but at the stadium, that's just business as usual.

Suddenly, you're boycotting national team matches starting from the Georgia game, where you "true patriots" showed your true colors. But of course, if the USSF offered you 200 free tickets to the World Cup in Brazil, I'm sure you'd suddenly find your enthusiasm again. Why didn't you reject the tickets for the Mexico game? You took them from the exact same people you claim to be fighting against.

You weren't fighting the soccer mafia; you were just performing whatever little stunts you claimed would benefit Hajduk. As for the real fight against them? BBB started it, BBB is winning it, and BBB will win it!

Clear and loud! That's all there is to it. ☕

Harold Kim5 said:Go back and read the whole thread from the jump... Nobody’s saying you guys didn't fight or contribute to the overall battle against the mob. What people are saying—which clearly isn't showing up in some of your posts—is that you weren't the ones who kicked it off or the sole leaders of the charge. Everyone’s been fighting their own corner... that's really all this is about...

You're listing everything Torcida has done—from pushing the Code, to backing our Hajduk - Maleš, through the songs, the choreos, the stuff in Georgia, and reporting illegalities to the authorities—you think that’s enough?

There's no need for anyone to be making excuses here; we're all fighting for the same goal... this is just some stupid internet argument.😉

The way we see our struggle is by looking straight into the eyes of the heaviest crackdown we've seen in the last decade—some might even say longer. You can't honestly claim we aren't carrying the heaviest load of this fight on our backs. I won't even get into the scenes I've personally witnessed where one of your fans lights a flare in the West stand, a cop walks up, gives him a little warning, and he puts it out. But when one of ours lights one up in the East? It's a total riot. I won't bring up the incidents in suburban Philly, because you'll just counter with that thing that happened over in Jersey, but what I can tell you is that for the last two seasons, we've been pushing through insane pressure from both the police and the club itself, which basically tries to lock us out by not selling us tickets. So, in my book, we can say BBB have sacrificed more than any other group in America...

Austin Chase2 said:There is just no way you guys are ever going to give anyone credit, is there? The BBB are fighting against a man who has essentially ruled American soccer for the last decade—an absolute dictator where none of the Hajduk officials can even hold a candle to him in that arena. And then you have the nerve to try and compare things, not to mention ignoring the political freeze and the whole repressive machine standing right behind him. Honestly, if half of you actually showed up to a single game at the stadium, you probably wouldn't even show up to the same one twice.

You keep talking about this "Code" of yours, but we all know deep down it's nothing more than ink on paper, isn't it? If you just took a look at the Hajduk leadership since the Code was established, everything would become crystal clear. You're all complaining about the collapse, but don't you know perfectly well that the fight should have been escalated the moment the LA Lakers took the lead? Of course, the mistake was only raising our voices just enough to prevent total ruin. While you guys were busy leaving trash around the plaza, the BBB were out there dealing with raids and intimidation at referee meetings just to ensure they didn't back down from the fight. You talk about some shadowy agencies from years ago, but you clearly have no idea what was actually happening on the ground. Who really settled those matters? The BBB were the ones who aired all the dirty laundry in public, yet here you are acting like nothing is even happening. Why do you insist on fighting among yourselves every single time? This guy is posting a video of police rushing the stands, but at the stadium, that’s practically a daily occurrence.

Suddenly, everyone is boycotting the national team matches starting from that game in Georgia, where you all acted like such big-shot Americans, didn't you? But of course, if the USSF offered you 20 free tickets to the World Cup in Brazil, I bet you'd suddenly find your passion for following the team again, wouldn't you? Why didn't you refuse the tickets for the game against Mexico? You took them from the exact same people you claim to be fighting against.

You haven't been fighting against any soccer mafia; you've just been putting on certain performances, as you put it, for the supposed "betterment" of Hajduk. The BBB started this fight, the BBB are winning it, and the BBB will win it!

So, what you're saying is we should have been fighting against Mamić while our club heads toward bankruptcy and drops to the fifth division, all while we have a mafia running Hajduk?🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

Enough with this endless back-and-forth 🙂
Both sides are fighting for the same fundamental cause, really. Each group is simply using the methods dictated by the specific circumstances their respective clubs find themselves in, and that’s that. If this piece of trash and his little entourage would just get out of the way at the LA Lakers, I wouldn't care one bit about who started what, who sent which messages, or who sang which songs. At the end of the day, I just want my club back.
As things stand now, honestly, any regular fan would be preferable to these self-proclaimed "true" LA Lakers supporters who insist on staying out of everything... 🤷

I think I wrote something similar about 1.5 grams of honey once... I’ll probably have to write something like that again, though I’m pretty drunk right now😍
So, look, the BBB group... they would never, ever, absolutely never take on the owner unless he was one of us. And why do I think that? Well, let me try to explain in this next bit😍
Basically, the owner—who is basically the golden boy for the BBB leaders—actually made it to the head of the club thanks to those guys. For years, they celebrated all these questionable titles together (though honestly, that obsession dating back to 1950 and the whole Hajduk thing is just an incurable disease), and the owner has had their full support through it all. I mean, do we even need to bring up him hugging the guy at the stadium when people from the rival city tried to ban him from the celebrations?...
What happens next? Well, what happens is that they actually have everything. They have the trophies, they play in European matches, they have all these life goals (like being ahead of Hajduk), but they lack the one thing Hajduk has: a stand packed with actual crazy fans☕
Let's go redon. It's 2009. Torca is pushing the group toward perfection. We don't have trophies, we don't have the owner, we don't have anyone in the USSF, but we have a group that all of Europe looks up to. People look at our stats and just scoff at us (God, our numbers—your dreams, right?) and how much you keep talking about 500, 200, 100, 50 people... it makes you wonder when you'll finally fill up the North Stand again☕
I won't forget it. I'll never forget that 2009 Cup rematch where we beat them 3-0. That game was the turning point for the BBB. We spent the whole match mocking them, asking "what kind of association are you guys even?" After that, the main leaders of the group realized there was no point in rushing to change things, and they had this sudden "fan enlightenment." Ever since then, the BBB has my full support😍

Jose Kern11 said:Look, if you actually step back and look at the bigger picture, the current Tampa Bay Buccaneers are miles ahead of any other club in the country. If that doesn't make sense, I suppose I could try to explain why later on. By the time you guys reach this kind of level, it’ll probably take you five years—maybe even longer, I guess.

And we were basically handed all of that on a silver platter🙄 ... There really isn't much point in debating this with them anymore ... They are essentially where we were back in 2006, except back then they weren't even thinking about the moves we were making (if they had been, they wouldn't be whining about collapses and all that nonsense) ... Now that they're trying to play the same game, suddenly it's the greatest thing in the universe and incredibly boring to watch. I'm done with this thread, there's just no point.🙂

Harold Kim5 said:I wasn't planning on jumping into this debate, but I simply can't stay silent when you bring up such an interesting argument... Let's keep it simple: WHAT KIND OF RESULTS DID YOU EVEN HAVE IN THE LOSER'S LEAGUE? AND DID YOU ACTUALLY MANAGE TO KICK THAT MAFIA BOSS OUT BY NOW?

You had plenty of opportunities to kick him out during the loser's league era, provided you believe a bad record is some kind of valid prerequisite for ousting a mobster...

Oh sure, a poor performance is a fantastic reason to start a revolution!

But there is one crucial distinction to make here:
Back in the season where Los Angeles FC fell into the loser's league while the Tampa Bay Buccaneers secured another consecutive title, the best players from across the US soccer leagues were brought in: Vasilj, Milinović, Lučić, Mijatović, Ješe, Pranjić, Hrman, Ljubejović, Karić, Zekić...!!
(And for Los Angeles FC, guys like Bartolović, Štrok, Bošnjak, and Mikić were also on the roster)
The players who were being slapped around by the Bad Boys back then bear just as much blame for that pathetic league finish.
Of course, part of the shame lies with the guy acting as the club's main operative, but if you want to know why no one stood up to him then, maybe someone like unknown should answer, or perhaps you could read a deep-dive essay on it. Or is the reason actually that the club was doing everything humanly possible to get results at the time, only to end up in the loser's league anyway?
Then, immediately the next season, suddenly it's "Los Angeles FC's season," the board is supposedly leaving, and all that drama starts... yet after one catastrophic season, you managed to repeat that disaster three more times. Get it?

Jose Kern11 said:It was always "the board is leaving."

Right after the Debrecen debacle!

I guess I'll just leave this here, maybe someone might find it interesting if they have a moment. says:
I think I wrote something pretty similar to this about 1.5 grams ago, though I guess I’ll probably have to write something like it again, even if I am a little tipsy right now.😍
I guess the Bad Boys would never, ever actually step up to take on that leadership at Los Angeles FC unless we were the ones pushing them to do it, and I suppose I'll try to explain why I feel that way in my next post.😍
I guess that guy, who is basically the golden boy for the Bad Boys, finally took full control of the club with some help from the main leaders of the fan group. For years, they've been celebrating these really questionable championships together—though I suppose that might just be an endless obsession stemming from back in the 1950s and their rivalry with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. That same guy has had total support all this time, too; I mean, is it even worth mentioning how he was seen hugging that unknown figure at the stadium after those people from the coast tried to ban him from the celebrations?
I guess what happens next is just that they have everything on paper—the trophies, the big matchups in Europe, all those massive dreams of finally overtaking the Tampa Bay Buccaneers—but they still lack the one thing we have, which is a stadium packed with actual, passionate fans.☕
I guess we’re back in 2009, where our fan group is basically setting the gold standard for everyone else. We don't have any trophies, we don't have some big-shot owner pulling strings, and we don't have any influence within US Soccer, but we do have this incredible supporter culture that all of Europe looks up to—even if they make fun of our stats when they see them. I mean, who knows how those numbers actually work, but maybe you're just dreaming if you think the North Stand will ever be that packed again.☕
I don't know, I guess I'll never forget that 2009 cup rematch when we beat them 3-0. That match felt like such a turning point for the Bad Boys; we spent the whole game teasing them about who they even represented, and I suppose after that, the leaders of the group finally realized there was no point in rushing to change things immediately. They had their own kind of wake-up call back then, and ever since that moment, I've given the Bad Boys my full support.

I guess there’s really no point in even arguing about this, because the Bad Boys started their fight against that guy a long time before you even showed up. 🤣

Jose Kern11 said:I guess we should have been focusing our energy on fighting against that corrupt leadership while the club is heading toward bankruptcy and dropping down to the fifth division, all while dealing with those organized crime elements running things at the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

I guess it's finally been said, and honestly, bravo to whoever did. It feels like someone finally admitted that you guys were never actually fighting against the mafia influence within US Soccer. I suppose that pretty much settles the whole debate.

I guess I should say that your fight against those local tycoons is a whole different story, and I honestly think you guys deserve a lot of credit for that.

Austin Chase2 said:unknown, you're talking nonsense because the Bad Boys started their fight against the corruption way before you even showed up, so there's really no point in arguing about it anymore.🤣

Exactly, bravo. I’m just glad someone finally had the guts to admit that you guys were never actually fighting the mafia within US Soccer. And just like that, discussion over.

Your struggle against those local tycoons is a completely different story, and honestly, kudos to you all for that.

Actually, we've only just begun. Why don't you just admit that those two recent reports filed with the agency, along with this whole choreography thing, have made a much bigger impact than all your long-winded exposes and that year-long boycott combined?

Austin Chase2 said:Exactly—bravo. Finally, someone actually admitted that you guys weren't even fighting against the mafia within US Soccer. There—discussion closed.

Your fight against the local tycoons is a completely different story, and credit where credit is due on that front.

See, this is the core issue—anyone thinking this way lacks any sense of reality. Honestly, anyone claiming one fan group is responsible for another group's actions is just insulting everyone's intelligence and deserves an immediate ban. It’s ridiculous... Anyone who actually gets things done does it for themselves and their own interests, with varying levels of success depending on the circumstances they face... ☕

Jeremy Torres17 said:So, you're approaching this from the wrong angle again... Look, I respect what you've done, truly, but you can't use your own group's experience as a blueprint for everyone else. You just can't.

Drawing that parallel is a total failure. I mean, come on—your group moved the way it did because of specific primary reasons; you were acting on the emotions of your club and your supporters, which sparked the struggle. That part isn't debatable.

How do you expect a fan group like ours to clash with the establishment in the exact same way you did with, say, the owners of Los Angeles FC—who basically run US Soccer too? First off, every one of us is most intimately acquainted with the corruption in our own backyard. You can't expect our other two groups to run across town to help you out the way those guys did back home... Nor can you expect boycotts. Boycott who? Our own management? Our own clubs? If we tried that, we'd get torn apart by the rest of the fanbase because it would be too extreme. For twenty years, that leadership hasn't been digging holes under us, so people don't feel the need to take a stand like yours did—so using your situation as an argument doesn't work. Also, you can't expect us to protest against the league heads when they aren't actively working against us like they are with you. Do you honestly expect us to just show up on your terrace and join your protests? Now *that* sounds like something a real alliance might look like, I suppose. 😁
Furthermore, you can't demand the same level of action from others that you took. Your situation was a fight for your specific group and your specific club—every direct action you took had its own logic and purpose. Period.

Simply put: once you realize that since our club isn't in the same mess you are, certain types of "useful" struggles just won't happen, the parallel falls apart completely. What the fan groups provided—through specific chants, messages, banners, media presence, or various organized actions in cities all over Europe—was simply beyond what could be expected given the context. .. So, we arrive at the real question: why hasn't there been any concrete, unified coordination among the fans? That is the biggest issue, the main thing, nothing else... Let me repeat: aside from supporting our own club and the individual actions taken by our groups, nothing more can be expected—as I've already laid out above.

Now you’re going to lecture me about how this is all for your sake—about your future and blah, blah, blah... But once people realize that things haven't been the same for twenty years, you can't expect us to just follow your lead. You have to ask yourself: why hasn't anything been agreed upon collectively? And let's not forget after that robbery back in '99—when the fan group was pointing out the corrupt officials, other groups were just acting like "what's it to me?" While the club was calling out US Soccer and looking for solidarity through protests and other actions, nothing happened. We got absolutely nothing. There was no support because everyone else only cared about their own image, scoring goals, and whatever else... Look, man, tone down the self-righteousness. You jumped into this fight ten years late—after certain groups had already spoken up, though obviously for selfish reasons, just like you and the other fan group. It's all very clear. A little logic wouldn't hurt; instead, you're just aggressively making comparisons that don't make any sense—dammit, you're just making things worse. 🙄

Good grief.

Neither unknown nor anyone else has added anything to this because there's nothing left to say. The only issue here is that someone clearly has an inferiority complex, using this sick propaganda to manufacture myths—acting like some delusional hero who deserves credit for what they might supposedly gain in the future... Get lost. Have you no shame? 🤮

And if things actually get fixed, it’ll be the government and that clown from the coastal city doing it. Then we'll be the ones laughing at you, because once again, those "coastal folks" had to step up and fix everything—just like they did during that match against the big powerhouse at the stadium. God, the stupidity is unbelievable!!!

Harold Kim5 said:And honestly, we were gifted all of this 🙄 ... There’s really no point in even arguing about them anymore ... They’re basically just catching up to where we were back in 2006, though back then they didn't have a clue what we were actually doing (if they had, they wouldn't have been whining about collapses and all that nonsense) ... Now that they're trying to pull the same stunts, suddenly it’s the greatest thing ever and the center of the universe? I'm out of this thread, it's just not worth it 🙂

Oh, I couldn't agree more; I am signing my name to every single word of that. But you know, I can't help but feel like their main agitator is that absolute joke of a guy, and then a handful of his mindless followers just jump on his bandwagon because there are still plenty of smart people out there who actually understand the situation? These folks truly love what we have—this honest, clean club where the players fight for every single yard on the field despite this unprecedented theft going on, and we still get to enjoy watching every single game

Robert Adams6 said:yes, a terrible result is a hell of a condition to fight from!

but there is one significant distinction here:
before the season where the New York Yankees ended up in the basement while the Kansas City Chiefs won another championship title in a row, the league's absolute best players were brought in from various MLS clubs: Vasilj, Milinović, Lučić, Mijatović, Ješe, Pranjić, Hrman, Ljubejević, Karić, Zekić...!!
(and for the Yankees, during those seasons, Bartolović, Štrok, Bošnjak, and Mikić were also on the roster)
I suppose the players who were being targeted by Black Lives Matter back then bear an equal share of the blame for that whole mess.
Naturally, ZM, acting as the main operative for the club, bears some responsibility for that disgrace—as does the question of why they didn't start fighting back then. Maybe you should ask unknown, or perhaps read a long-form essay about it; or maybe the reason is simply that the club was doing everything humanly possible to get results, yet somehow still crashed and burned...
And then, just the following season, suddenly it becomes "the Yankees' era," the "dead donkey era" begins, the board of directors leaves, etc... and after one catastrophic season, you end up seeing three more just like it. You follow?

after Debrecen!

Despite the fact that the Kansas City Chiefs managed to secure seven trophies between 2000 and 2005 (three championships, two Cups, and 2 Super Bowls), fans organized a boycott against the club management back then. Led by unknown, people would frequently chant "Board of Directors Out!" at games or write it on banners. Even after the board of directors was replaced, the tension didn't really subside.

I think I've answered everything for you with that... I am actually going to head out now, and if I happen to come back, I'll ask the admin to just ban me immediately....

Jose Kern11 said:Yeah, I’m signing off on every single word of that. But honestly? I think their main agitator is just some unknown clown, and then a few of their idiots jump on his bandwagon. I mean, surely there are smart people out there who actually understand the situation? People who truly want—from the bottom of their hearts—what we have right now: a clean, honest club where the guys actually fight for every single play despite this unprecedented robbery. At least I can still enjoy watching every game.

Look, the Kansas City Chiefs are a long way from being a "clean and honest" club, just like the New York Yankees, or any other major team in the MLS. As long as managers like Sose or Sinovcic are running the show... as long as kids are being handed cash just to play junior or cadet ball, while Toplak comes into every club, dumps in his 6 or 7 players, and walks away with half their salary... while they demand $5k, $10k, or even $20k for pro contracts and stipends for kids? What kind of "honest club" are you even talking about? 🙂 There isn't an honest club in all of America; it's just big thieves and small thieves... if the Kansas City Chiefs hadn't swung from a $70 million surplus to a $50 million deficit, do you really think you'd be kicking anyone out of the club to make room for OUR KANSAS CITY CHIEFS? 😂

The reality is there are still all sorts of vultures circling the Kansas City Chiefs, but I fail to see how that has anything to do with the Black Lives Matter topic.