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Here’s the question: how much does it actually matter if a musician is a jerk? Even more importantly, how much do you care if they don't align with your specific moral or political code? For example, if someone pops up whose music absolutely blows your mind, but they openly promote Nazism, violence against women, or something similar—would you still listen? And how did you all feel about this back when you were teenagers?

I find it kind of (sarcastic) funny how a certain segment of the (anarcho)punk scene—which is supposed to be all about individuality—actually demands that people stay "punk," meaning they have to fit a specific mold with their behavior, clothes, and whatnot. A buddy of mine recently tried to set up a booth at an anarchist book fair, and the punks wouldn't let him because he didn't "fit the vibe." 🙏

Personally, I couldn't care less what someone is like; all that matters to me is the music... Lou Reed was a total piece of work to me, yet the Velvet Underground is genius, and *Transformer* is a masterpiece. Kurt Cobain and Curtis Mayfield ended up taking their own lives and leaving daughters behind, some guys like Eddie Vedder can be total assholes (though sometimes they're great), John Lennon was a messy hippie, and Johnny Cash used to cheat on his wife with basically every woman he met, but none of that stops me from loving their music. When I was a teen, though, you basically had to fit a very specific pattern for a musician or band to even be worth listening to...

Adam Moore said:Say someone comes along with music that absolutely destroys you—in the best way—but they openly push Nazi ideology, violence against women, or something equally vile. Would you still listen? And how did you process that when you were just a teenager?

I wouldn't. And my stance hasn't changed since I was a kid. ☕

Adam Moore said:A friend of mine tried to set up a booth at an anarchist book fair recently, but the punks blocked him because he "doesn't fit the vibe." 🙏

Err... who exactly was he asking? One of the organizers, or just some random punk passing by? 🤔

Daniel Bailey7 said:Wait... who was he even asking? One of the organizers or just some random punk walking by? 🤔

The organizer.

Burzum is the absolute gold standard, and I think this might be the first time Ivaniš has actually been mentioned in the same breath as Lou Reed, Kurt Cobain, Curtis, and John Lennon.

not even him, it's someone else :P this time he's got Burzum joining the party 😬

The Emperor is absolute law—and honestly, it’s pretty great how churches have collapsed and people are just getting slaughtered

Adam Moore said:organizer.

If we're talking about the same guy—and I suspect we are—I find it hard to believe he'd offer such a cliché excuse...

It’s more likely that your friend's books just didn't fit the "anarchist" vibe of the fair.

Adam Moore said:Suppose a certain individual emerges onto the scene—someone whose music absolutely shatters your soul, truly transcendent stuff—but then you realize that this person openly champions Nazism, or perhaps advocates for violence against women, or some other equally abhorrent ideology... would you actually continue to listen to them? I find myself wondering how one reconciles such a profound aesthetic experience with such reprehensible personal convictions. And, if I may be so bold as to ask, how did you all navigate these kinds of moral dilemmas during your teenage years? It was such a turbulent time for everyone, wasn't it... a period of intense discovery mixed with such overwhelming confusion...

No.

Adam Moore The user said:I find it somewhat... amusing—if you can call it that—how certain segments of the anarcho-punk scene—a subculture that ostensibly champions radical individuality—actually demand that everyone conform to a very specific, rigid standard of behavior, dress, and general aesthetic. It is quite the paradox, isn't it? A friend of mine recently attempted to set up a small vendor stall at an anarchist book fair out in Seattle, and he was flat-out rejected by certain punks because his style didn't fit their narrow definition of "authentic"... they basically told him he didn't "fit the vibe" or match the expected grit... such irony... 🙏

Antifa, Antifa, I am Antifa—and if you aren't standing with Antifa, then you simply aren't part of the movement... [IMAGE REMOVED]

Adam Moore said:Look, I’ve come to this conclusion after much deliberation—honestly, I don't care what kind of person someone is in their private life... all that matters to me is the music. It’s the art that remains when the person fades away. Take Lou Reed, for example—to my mind, he was an absolute piece of work, truly detestable—but the Velvet Underground? Pure genius. And *Transformer* is nothing short of a masterpiece... then you have Kurt Cobain and Curtis Mayfield, both of whom ended their lives and left their daughters behind to pick up the pieces. Even someone like a public figure like George W. Bush can be a complete jerk sometimes—though, granted, there are moments where he’s actually quite mild-mannered... As for John Lennon, he was just a dirty hippie through and through, and Johnny Cash... well, let's just say he was unfaithful to June Carter Cash with just about any woman who crossed his path. Yet, none of that stops me from absolutely loving their music. It's a strange thing, isn't it? Back when I was a teenager playing music myself, there was this rigid pressure—this feeling that if you were in a band, you had to fit into one specific, narrow mold just to be considered listenable...

Lou Reed was a jerk. Kurt Cobain was a jerk. John Lennon was a jerk. As for Ripper—well, he’s just an untalented individual, really, and I honestly can't fathom why we even bother discussing him... But regarding Johnny Cash, I feel compelled to offer a correction—if I may be so bold. He cheated on his first wife, you know—the woman who actually wanted him to just work at a vacuum cleaner store—and frankly, if I were in his shoes, I probably would have done the exact same thing... In thirty-five years of marriage—thirty-five whole years!—he never once, and I mean absolutely never, stepped out on June Carter Cash. He’s just a class act... truly the greatest.

Adam Moore said:So, here’s what I'm wondering—how much does it actually matter if a musician is a jerk? Or even more importantly, how much do you care if they don't align with your own moral or political views? Like, if someone comes along whose music absolutely blows your mind, but they're openly pushing hateful ideologies or violence against women, would you still listen? And I guess, how did you all handle stuff like that back when you were teenagers?

Anal Cunt is the best. And being a jerk is just gay. This whole thread is gay. If you're a girl, I might hit you—though hitting people is also gay. Even the word "gay" is gay. Homophobia is gay too. Punks are gay. Teenagers are gay.

Plus, those anarchist fairs are pretty lame since nobody ever actually destroys anything there, or starts revolutions or tries to take down George W. Bush and Dick Cheney... 😢

@Daniel Bailey7/">@@Daniel Bailey7 - friend is quoting someone saying: you can't set up a booth here because you're just a hierarchical organization with a massive cult of personality. Plus, we never see you hanging out at the local dive bars or the swamp.

Maybe he's lying, maybe he isn't. Either way, it's pretty hilarious.

@boldscout72/">@@boldscout72 I know he didn't cheat on June Carter Cash. But a woman is a woman, and she has feelings, no matter how much of a grouch she is... Dubravko is talented. That's all.

Daniel Bailey7 said:Wait, who was he even asking? Some organizer or just some random punk passing by? 🤔

It's all the same thing. 😈

On topic.It’s the age-old debate in every art form—does the work stand alone, or do you need to know the artist and their backstory to actually get it? At the end of the day, someone's worldview and lifestyle bleed into everything they make, so looking into the background isn't even illogical. It kind of explains why people are so obsessed with sharing the same perspective as the creator.

That's my take. I can't even deal with this right now. Total joke. Film bios were huge for me back in my punk teen days. I was obsessed with finding people who "got" me, thinking nobody outside my little scene could ever understand my worldview. Total amateur move. Later on, I realized how wrong I was—staying in that bubble just meant I was missing out on everything. I don't even know what that means. Get it together. Honestly, I've just stopped giving a damn about the world.

Honestly, I still have this moral code that kicks in, making me refuse to even give certain things a shot. It’s about this:

Say, if some artist comes along whose music absolutely destroys you, but they’re out there openly pushing Nazism or violence against women, would you still keep them on repeat?

I think there’s a massive difference between a band "selling out" to a major label and someone openly pushing Nazi rhetoric, sexism, xenophobia, or any other kind of hateful bullshit that goes against everything I stand for. That’s why "sellout" punks still get played on my stereo, while guys like Thompson and Corba couldn't touch my playlist if they tried—even if their music actually sounded good. You’ve gotta draw the line somewhere.

all that matters is where they stood back in '91
😬

I’m not some little girl😢😬

I think you guys might be a little crazy.
Bad Brains can be pretty homophobic, Varg is a straight-up racist, and I heard Helios Creed allegedly hit a woman. But honestly? They’re all incredible musicians, and I just love what they do. 😍

Carol Jackson45 said:To be honest, I still live by a certain moral code that stops me from even giving some things a chance. It basically comes down to this:

I think there’s a massive difference between a band that "sold out" to a major label and someone who openly pushes Nazism, sexism, xenophobia, or any other kind of discrimination that clashes with who I am. That's why "sellout" punks can stay in my CD player, while guys like Thompson and Corba couldn't get near my speakers even if they made music I actually liked. You have to draw the line somewhere.

Fair enough, I get that, but here's what I'm really wondering (hypothetically): what if a song comes along that absolutely destroys you—like, you get chills just listening to it—but the people performing it are total lowlifes on the level of Kid Rock or Corba? I mean, straight-up xenophobes inciting people to go after minorities? Would you tell others the song is garbage, or would you keep listening anyway?

Adam Moore said:Alright, I get that, but here’s the real question (hypothetically): say a song comes along that absolutely destroys you—like, goosebumps everywhere—but the guys performing it are total hillbillies on the level of Kid Rock or some xenophobic jerk inciting hate against minorities. Would you tell people the song sucks? And would you even keep listening?

I listened to Corba when I was a kid and thought they were decent. Objectively, some of their tracks still hold up. But if I heard them on the radio, I’d switch the station immediately. If I had the record in my hands, I’d throw it out the window. It’s just a matter of principle.
Same thing applies here: I lost all respect for Noam Chomsky because of his comments regarding Jonestown. Sure, you can cite his linguistics books—the guy is one of the greatest linguists ever—but everything else he's ever written basically doesn't exist to me anymore.

Nicholas Perez33 said:you guys are insane.
Bad Brains are homophobic, Varg is a straight-up racist, and apparently Helios Creed once went after some woman. But they’re incredible musicians and I dig what they do. 😍

man, when are you lot finally gonna sell out?
seriously, you’d probably pull a crowd. right now you're just those basic clickbait types who grew up browsing the bargain bin, but since that bin fell apart, there's a massive hole on the stage that you could easily fill if you actually tried.
😁

Carol Jackson45 said:Same vibe here. I can't even look at Noam Chomsky anymore because of those statements regarding Jonestown. Sure, his linguistics books are solid—the guy’s basically the GOAT when it comes to language—but honestly? Everything else he's ever written is just noise to me now. It doesn't exist.

erm.. the guy actually debunked those news reports that twisted his words. He even went on national TV and told them straight up that wasn't what he said.

wiredfalcon2 said:uh.. the guy just denied all those news reports that twisted his words. he even went on live TV and said he never said it.

Yeah, right. Once he realized he totally blew it. 🙄

Delvecchio said:So, when are you guys finally gonna sell out?
lol, honestly people would probably show up. Right now they're just those niche indie acts that grew up on the shelf, but since that mainstream slot opened up, there's definitely a void you could fill.
😁

death disco is basically just filling the gaps for the teenagers😂