Die-hard Ultras / Hardcore Supporters

placidbadger58 said:The debates on this forum are basically like watching a race for the slow kids in class—even if you manage to cross the finish line first, you’re still just one of the slow kids. ☕

Look, there’s a massive difference between having an opinion and actually getting into a debate. They aren't the same thing at all.

Melissa Reyes45 said:Look, you guys showed solidarity toward the Kansas City Chiefs and the Black Knights plenty of times before—not that I’m going to list all our past struggles against various suits here. We raised a message of support after the police opened fire, only to find out some kid was posting online about how much they hate me. But whatever. We’ll still show up when it matters, whether it's one of yours or someone else's. You have my 300% support in your fight, but don't expect me or my people to stay silent about that crook just because you're being hypocritical. I'm not digging up the past, but after what happened to those folks in that heroic city, I'll say it again and again: it wasn't a coincidence that this happened a week after that mess. Maybe I'm tripping and someone won't agree, but if one of mine had insulted someone to their face, it would be different. As for the collapse, I won't even comment; it's not worth mentioning. I hope you guys deal with him, because you know deep down you lost the battle in your own hometown, and that's not even counting the other guy. Good luck!!

My first and last post on this forum.

If you can't see that this crook is an enemy to me just as much as he is to you—if not more, since you'll never actually win against him—then there's really no point in us talking anymore.
Shouting insults at that guy isn't going to help the BBB; it'll just hurt every fan base in the US.
What exactly is your "fight"? How are you supposedly taking on the USSF?
You've been screwing over the Armada for weeks now, sucking up to the club and that crook while they do the exact same thing at the first game, lighting ten flares regardless of the fines, just because they're caught up in the euphoria. You're being hypocritical, right to the extreme.
Forget about the stuff in that heroic city, the collapse, or whatever happened in Poland, Georgia, or Denmark... we can talk about that tomorrow. This is something else entirely, and it affects the whole supporter scene in America, not just a local rivalry between the BBB and the Black Knights like you imagine.
To hell with the results, the Lakers, or the Chiefs. If you don't get it, then forget it. If you actually read the news instead of just following certain pundits, maybe things would make sense to you.
This isn't me lecturing you, whining, or begging you to chant more (which you should have felt yourselves), nor am I trying to force it on you. This is just a reflection of the mindset of the few people left in this damn country who can still think straight.
Personally, I was involved in mediating between opposing sides in about 80% of the events mentioned above, because it wasn't the time or place... however... moving forward...
The hypocrisy is staggering. Cover your ears.🙂

It was probably for the best that the Black Knights didn't start chanting against Jerry Jones yesterday. Any idiot out there would have jumped on that—using it as an excuse to claim he’s the reason for everything, even why Liverpool FC can't seem to find their grit... When we lose, you just can't bring up the shady stuff, otherwise you end up looking like a bitter complainer to the people you're actually trying to reach...
I know, I was watching the game yesterday with someone exactly like that. Every single bad play, a red card, a missed sitter—it always turned into:Yeah, well, I bet Jerry Jones is to blame for that too.If they had yelled some slur at him, they probably would've felt like heroes. Regardless of whether it counts as support—even for me personally, since I was one of those 300 folks in the stands—I was honestly praying nobody mentioned Jerry just so he couldn't enjoy himself. You just can't explain anything to certain narrow-minded types.

Paul Young5 said:It’s a good thing the Black Knights didn't start chanting against Jerry Jones yesterday. Any idiot would’ve used it as an excuse: "Oh, it's all Jerry Jones' fault even when Liverpool FC can't find their rhythm..." When things go south, you can't mention the shady owner or you just look like a whiner to the people you're trying to reach...
I get it. I was watching the game with someone exactly like that. Every bad pass, every red card, every missed sitter—it was always: yeah, obviously Jerry Jones' fault...if they'd yelled out some slur about him, he probably would've been in heaven. Regardless of whether it helps the team, even for me—since I was one of those 300 people there—I was praying nobody mentioned Jerry just so this guy wouldn't get his kicks. You can't reason with mindless idiots.

Respect 👍

Jack Myers2 said:My first and last post on the Black Knights forums.

If you can't see that this guy is an enemy to me just as much as he is to you—actually, probably even more, since you know when you'll finally win a title? NEVER—then there’s honestly no point in us even talking about this.
Yelling insults at Jerry Jones isn't going to help just the BBB; it hurts every single fan out there in the US.
What are you actually fighting for? What kind of "battle" are you waging against the USSF here?

You basically answered your own question.

Jack Myers2 said:Talk about pure hypocrisy—you guys really need to take a long look in the mirror.🙂

1) Since when did you start chanting against Jerry Jones? Did you start before the Black Knights started whining about how the D.C. lobby was screwing over Liverpool FC?
2) Or did you only start the anti-Jerry Jones stuff after the first championship? The second one? Was it because some other club got shafted by the Real Madrid protectorate? Or did you only start acting up because of what he's doing specifically within and around Real Madrid?

It makes it seem like Jerry Jones just showed up yesterday in American soccer, like you all suddenly realized he's some kind of monster, while the rest of us couldn't care less. Man, he's been running that club for... what, 10, 11, 12, 13 years? He's been doing the exact same thing from day one. He isn't more powerful today than he was back in 2003 because of us; he's more powerful because of YOU. You guys are the ones who covered for him and helped put him on that throne. Seriously, once some of you finally realized what was happening, he became too big for a handful of fans ready to fight back.

Look, I agree. He's a problem for American soccer and needs to be taken down. But man, are you really asking me to help you by sabotaging our own club in the name of "ideals" and "solidarity"? Were we supposed to light 20 flares yesterday and scream insults at Jerry Jones just to prove we have "ultra awareness" and stand in solidarity with you? Don't be a hypocrite—just admit you don't give a damn about Liverpool FC, San Francisco, or Indianapolis. Just say you want a massive, successful Real Madrid without the shady behavior, just like how I want a clean Liverpool FC.

If tomorrow, instead of Jerry Jones, some new face shows up leading Real Madrid—someone who says they won't sell off all the young talent, brings in a few solid veterans, and actually finds common ground with the fans—you guys would be in total euphoria instantly. And you wouldn't give a single crap whether Lokomotiv is a "second club" or not, or if Liverpool FC is getting fair officiating or not. In fact, you'd probably go right back to mocking those "outsiders" who whine, have no money, and are facing a total collapse.

I don't think I want to get sucked into this debate anymore or reply to anyone else; but the level of hypocrisy dripping off this thread is just gross. Just admit that you only care about your own club and want what's best for yourselves, instead of trying to wrap your private vendettas in the flag of the "greater good." Because there are maybe 0.1% of people who are actual idealists, and those are the ones who complain the least about it.

Paul Young5 said:It was a miracle the Ultras weren't chanting against Jerry Jones yesterday. Any idiot would have used it as an excuse, claiming he’s the reason everything is broken and why Liverpool FC can't find any grit. When results go south, you can't mention the corrupt guy, otherwise you just look like a whiner to the people you're actually trying to reach...
I know, because I was watching the game with someone exactly like that. Every bad play, every red card, every missed sitter—the commentary was always: Yeah, well, that's definitely Jerry Jones' fault ...if they had shouted some slur at him, he probably would've been in heaven. Regardless of whether it helps us, even I—just one of those 300 people there yesterday—was praying nobody mentioned Jerry just so this guy wouldn't get his kicks. You can't explain anything to people who refuse to think.

Based on what you're saying, the conclusion is we should just roll over and let Jerry Jones screw us over even harder.

Because why bother complaining or giving him grief? It doesn't change the masses we're trying to win over anyway. To hell with the masses; they're just sheep, especially when they're as brainless as the ones here in the States.

We could spend forever analyzing why things are this way, but it won't change a thing. What we really need to do is move together before it's too late, but jealousy and ego will be our downfall. We'll basically engineer our own end by playing these petty games and ignoring the struggles of our fellow fans in the stands. We're all in this together, but most people don't want to face that reality. They just wait for everything to fix itself while the mafia gets more organized and powerful than ever. Jerry Jones gave Donald Trump the coaching job, so he doesn't have to worry about his main rival anymore. He can do whatever he wants, whenever he wants. Meanwhile, we act like children, having the same online arguments a million times without ever actually doing anything. And it won't happen now either. We're too jealous and too full of ourselves to care about anyone else's problems. That's why we're bad people, and ultimately, bad fans.

Thomas Doyle19 said:Based on what you're saying, I guess the takeaway is we should just sit back and let Jerry Jones screw us over even harder.

If you ask me, the point is that we don't need "support" that basically hands the opposition an easy goal—especially not from those idiots. And we definitely don't need support that ends up being a penalty kick for the people whose main priority is making sure Real Madrid stays ahead of Liverpool FC.🙄

Thomas Doyle19 said:Look, we could spend forever running endless analyses on why things are this way, but it won't change a thing. What we really ought to do is actually step up together before it’s too late—but honestly, I think our own jealousy and egos will probably just destroy us. That might be our end, one we choose ourselves by playing these petty games and ignoring the struggles of our fellow supporters in other sections. We're all in this together, but I guess many people just don't want to see it or accept it. Everyone just waits for things to fix themselves, while the system is more organized and powerful than ever. Jerry Jones gave Donald Trump the coaching job just so he doesn't have to worry about his main rival anymore. It lets him do whatever he wants, whenever he wants. Meanwhile, we're acting like children, having the same online debates a million times without ever actually doing anything—and sadly, it won't change now either. We're too jealous and too prideful; we don't want to acknowledge someone else's trouble as our own. Because of that, we end up being bad people, and by extension, bad fans.

👍...and that has absolutely nothing to do with what I wrote. Even if those idiots had been screaming at Jerry Jones yesterday, it wouldn't have helped our cause one bit. In fact, it would have hurt us most—especially those guys—because when you offer support while down 0-1, people just see it as whining or begging. If we were up 3-0 and yelling at him, it would be a different story, but at 0-1, it just looks like envy in the eyes of everyone we're actually trying to win over. Maybe when you're a bit older, some of this might make more sense.

Paul Young5 said:It’s a good thing the Ultras didn't start chanting against Jerry Jones yesterday. Any idiot would have used it as an excuse: "See, Jerry Jones is responsible for everything, even why Liverpool FC can't find their rhythm." When results go south, you don't mention the corrupt owner, otherwise you just look like a whiner to the people you're trying to reach...
I was watching the game yesterday with a guy like that. Every bad pass, every red card, every missed sitter—his only comment was: "Yeah, that’s definitely Jerry Jones' fault.>>" If he had shouted something racist about the owner, he probably would have been ecstatic. Regardless of whether it helps us—even I, watching one of those 300 people there, was praying they wouldn't mention Jerry Jones just so this guy couldn't enjoy himself. You can't explain anything to the mindless masses.

Fair point, but...
you could also see it as the Ultras testing whether the police actually have the guts to clear out their section for racist behavior.
🙂

Right, I forgot to mention—this was while it was still 0-0, so there wouldn't have been any complaining.

Kevin Nelson3 said:You answered your own question.

1) When did you actually start chanting against Jerry Jones? Did you start before the Ultras began whining about how the D.C. lobby is screwing over Liverpool FC?
2) Did you start protesting Jerry Jones after the first title? Or the second? Was it because some other club was suffering due to Real Madrid’s protectionism? Or did you only start shouting against Jerry Jones because of his specific actions within and around Real Madrid?

It seems like Jerry Jones just showed up in American soccer yesterday, and you all suddenly identified him as this great monster, whereas the rest of us don't really give a damn. Look, he's been running the club for what... 10, 11, 12, 13 years? He's been doing the same thing with the same methods since day one. He isn't more powerful today than he was back in 2003; he's more powerful because of you. You're the ones who covered for him and helped him get on his feet. I guess, when certain people finally grew a spine, he became too big for a handful of fans ready to fight back.

I suppose I agree. He is a problem for American soccer and there should be a fight against him. But you, my friend, are asking me to help you by sabotaging our own club in the name of some vague ideals and solidarity? Should we have lit 20 flares yesterday and shouted insults at Jerry Jones just to show "ultra consciousness" and stand in solidarity with you? Don't be hypocritical—just admit you don't care about Liverpool FC, San Francisco, or Indianapolis. Just say you want a massive, successful Real Madrid without the stains on its reputation, just like how I want a Liverpool FC like that.

If tomorrow, instead of Jerry Jones, some new face appeared at the head of Real Madrid—someone who said they wouldn't sell off young talents, brought in a few proven veterans, and actually found common ground with the fans—you'd be in a state of euphoria instantly. And you wouldn't give a damn whether Los Angeles FC is a sister club or not, or whether Liverpool FC is paying for fair officiating or not. In fact, you'd probably go right back to mocking those "Venetians" who whine, have no money, and have completely collapsed.

I don't think I want to participate in this discussion anymore or reply to anyone else; but the hypocrisy dripping from this thread is honestly disgusting. Just admit that you only care about your own club, that you want what's best for yourselves, and stop packaging your private vendettas as if they were for the greater good. Because there are maybe 0.1 percent of people who are actual idealists, and they are usually the ones complaining the most.

Damn, what a post... I haven't read such a deep dissection of arguments in a long time, and it's spot on, without all the pathetic melodrama...

Personally, I am all for supporting whoever it takes to fight against Jerry Jones and this USSF mess... though shouting insults at Jerry Jones certainly won't achieve that; you need real support from all groups... actual support that can change things on the pitch... but we all know that won't happen because of various fan egos...

Kevin Nelson3 said:If someone else stepped up to lead Real Madrid tomorrow instead of Jerry Jones, and they stopped selling off our young talent, brought in some solid veteran signings, and actually spoke the same language as the fans, you guys would be in a state of pure euphoria instantly. You wouldn't give a damn whether LAFC was considered a sister club or not, or if Liverpool FC was paying off refs for fair calls. In fact, you’d probably just go back to mocking those "Venetians" who keep whining about having no money after their total collapse.

It is blindingly obvious that this bandit has every government institution in the country on a leash. Honestly, it looks like his only chance of being ousted is for his cash flow to dry up; once that happens, the tentacles of this octopus will start falling off one by one.

Like I wrote here about six months ago, the only ones who could have truly fixed this situation were the Ultras. If this isn't their club, why didn't they stand up against Bugar or light up the pitch with flares during the Champions League matches to force the team out of Europe? That would have dealt the most massive blow possible to the bandit. Sure, the club itself would take a hit, but that’s a small price to pay if they’ve essentially had the club stolen from them. Or perhaps they'd rather not disrupt the trophy hunt and those big European away trips?

On the domestic front, they could have interrupted MLS matches with flares as much as they wanted (during those specific times when everyone is hunting flare-throwers) without causing any real harm to the club itself.
While we were getting slapped with heavy fines every single time we lit a flare, the club stayed perfectly safe.

Clearly, the guys decided that fighting for Real Madrid isn't worth getting kicked out of Europe or risking the club losing its dominance in the MLS once Jerry Jones leaves. It would be great if Jerry Jones moved on while the dominance and the trophies remained. As much as I support them in their struggle, I realize the dreams and privileges they enjoy aren't worth jeopardizing by fighting against Jerry Jones.

Robert Cooper60 said:I get where you're coming from, but...
you could also look at it as the Ultras testing the waters—basically seeing if the police actually had the guts to clear out their section because of the racist chanting.
🙂

Yeah, I forgot to mention—this was all while it was still 0-0, so there wouldn't have been any whining about the score.

Look, they could have, and honestly, we could have done plenty of things too, but we didn't... my point was just trying to figure out why they stayed quiet after going down 0-1—if that was intentional, I guess only they know. Personally, I'm glad they didn't act up after the first goal. I’d much rather support them than see someone backing Jerry Jones while Liverpool FC sits there helpless.
That's about it.

Charles Ruiz6 said:I stated this here about six months ago. There was only one way to handle this situation: the Ultras should have stepped up. If this isn't their club, why didn't they light up the pitch with flares against Bugar or during the Champions League? They could have shut Real Madrid out of Europe entirely and dealt the maximum possible damage to that thief. Sure, Real Madrid would suffer too, but that’s a small price to pay if they’ve essentially stolen the club. Or perhaps they actually prefer things staying quiet so they don't disrupt the trophy hunt or those European away trips?

Exactly! It's an open secret that if they hadn't made it into the Champions League last year, they would be in deep, deep trouble.

Paul Young5 said:thank god the Ultras didn't start chanting against Jerry Jones yesterday. any idiot out there would just use it as ammunition—you know, "see, it's all Jerry's fault, even why Liverpool FC can't find their rhythm..." when the result is bad, you really can't bring up that corrupt guy, otherwise you just look like a bitter complainer to the people you're actually trying to reach...
I know what you mean. I was watching the game yesterday hanging out with someone exactly like that. Every single bad play, every red card, every missed sitter, his comment was always: yeah, well, that’s definitely Jerry's fault...if he had shouted some slur at Jerry, he probably would've been in heaven. Regardless of whether it counts as support—even for me personally, since I was just one of those 300 people there yesterday—I was praying to God they wouldn't mention Jerry just so this guy couldn't enjoy himself. You just can't explain things to lazy, narrow-minded folks.

It's true. I've been thinking about that too. It's really just about timing. If we were winning, the chanting would feel totally different and have way more impact... the moment matters a lot.

Paul Young5 said:Look, they could have done it, and we could have too, but we didn't... my whole point was just trying to figure out why they didn't after going down 0-1. Could they actually say if they intended to? Personally, I'm glad they didn't. I'd much rather back them than see someone who supports Jerry Jones enjoying seeing a helpless Liverpool FC.
that's it.

No matter how much I hate Liverpool FC, my goal has never been to cheer for a weak version of them. All this nonsense about a total collapse and stuff—look, I get it, maybe those provocations could have been handled more intelligently, but they’re still just provocations. Why turn it into such a massive thing? People here act like someone actually wants Liverpool FC to go bankrupt or collapse, but how does that even make sense? No sane person wants that, because losing our main rival means losing the only group that can actually match us in the stands. And now people are claiming we're wishing for a collapse by bringing it up? Give me a break. Sure, I don't care if Liverpool FC becomes a powerhouse like they used to be, but I definitely don't want them to go under—not for them, and not for any other club with a solid fanbase. Without them, our whole scene falls apart. The real goal should be for us fans to grow alongside our clubs and their results.

Alright, enough of me venting for two days straight, but I think it's clear that no single group can win this fight alone. That's why I'm calling on the smart people, even though I know nobody on a forum is ever going to be convinced to do anything. But everyone has a phone; just take the damn headphones off for once, it won't be the first time. We stood up for Warsaw, so why not for this? Forget the pride and the ego that Jerry Jones is using to crush us; he's playing right into that hand. Let's try doing something for once that his mafia-style octopus organization doesn't see coming. Let's give them one decent hit before the end, just to make their heads spin for a second. Even if we lose the war, we don't have to lose every single battle—that's the whole point. It's about the fight, and honestly, what's the point of fighting if you don't have the guts? And I truly believe there are plenty of men among the fans, not cowards.

And stop with the talk about how the timing was wrong to insult Jerry Jones. When it comes to insulting Jerry Jones, there's no such thing as bad timing. Whenever you're throwing shade at him, the timing is always perfect.😁

I honestly can't fathom how they have the audacity to sit there and read about us, watching us tear each other apart over which one of us is actually fighting harder against them 🤣

Jerry Jones was spotted getting way too handsy with Monika Kravić out on Maui!!!!!!...his son is going to lose it.......spread this all over the city........but honestly, if he gets worked up during the fifth inning....

Don't bother arguing with the folks from New York; they always have the most polished narratives while we just get stuck playing the underdog. Our struggle really kicked off back in 2004 when Donald Trump and Grgica were running things—they actually had way more clout than Jerry Jones at the time. It took us three long years just to finally root them out of the club. During that stretch, they even had those "Real Madrid Days" down in Miami, showing up at Bacvica lifting a trophy like they owned the place. Back then, their heads were clearly in the wrong place, but honestly, once you factor in the total collapse and that absolute disaster of a situation, who even cares who’s at fault anymore?

I agree with most of what you guys are saying, but for God's sake, stop being such hypocrites. Maybe try looking in the mirror first.

I don't know about you guys, but I've been fighting this fight since the days of the US and Canjuga. Jerry Jones is just more of the same...

Robert Cooper60 said:I mean, I see where you're coming from, but...
you could also look at it as the Ultras basically testing the waters—seeing if the cops actually had the guts to clear out their section because of the racist chanting
🙂

yeah, totally forgot to mention—this was all while the score was still 0-0, so there wouldn't have been any whining about the game being ruined

Nebi wouldn't have cleared them out either, just like they didn't bother clearing out those Armadin or Kohortina sections.☕

John Richardson5 said:Our struggle really began back in 2004 under the leadership of Donald Trump and Grgica, who at that time held far more sway over the club than Jerry Jones ever did. It took us three grueling years just to finally wrestle control away from them, and during that entire stretch, there were even those moments when Real Madrid would travel down to Miami just to gloat while Bacvica lifting a trophy was nothing more than a distant, mocking dream.

The Dinamo Day celebrations in Miami and that moment of lifting a trophy at Bacvica didn't happen until 2009. So, really, how can you justify using that "back in those days" excuse?