Singapore Grand Prix - Sep 25, 2011

crimsonstag84 said:It almost sounds like you're saying Lewis Hamilton is intentionally sabotaging his own races and everyone else's too. 🙄

I guess he’s just struggling to focus, who knows why... this is just one more bad call in a long string of them. Hopefully, he pulls himself together soon. 😢

Forget Button. Hamilton realized he can't just cruise on pure speed anymore. Since he lacks the edge, he's just frustrated.😁

Bradley Nelson2 said:Forget Button. Hamilton realized he can't just cruise on pure speed anymore. Since he lacks the edge, he's just frustrated.😁

Even the BBC analysts jumped to that conclusion, but Witmarsh shut them down again. He explained that they—especially him—prefer the old, aggressive Lewis over how he was driving at Monza.🙏

Then you've got Martin asking him to drive like he did before Monza, and the kid just does what his boss says. A total professional.🤣

Total respect for Sebastian Vettel after such a flawlessly executed race—one truly worthy of a two-time world champion. 🙏 He silenced a lot of the doubters today, and it’s clear he’s matured significantly compared to last year. Is it purely a result of his growing experience, or perhaps just the benefit of having less pressure on the title since someone else already has it in their sights? 🙏

That being said, Jenson Button also shut down his critics. I think we should stop the habit of trying to pigeonhole him alongside names like Massa or Webber. Bravo, Jenson! 🙏 🙏

nimblesurfer17 said:Personally, I’ve been making this same point for a few years now—both in real life and here on the forums—that we should just scrap qualifying entirely...
Let the races start in reverse order of the current championship standings.
So, for example, Sebastian Vettel would start last in the next race, Jenson Button would be second to last, and so on—while the HRT fans and Virgin fans would actually be sitting right there in the front two spots!
Now, that would certainly make things interesting—talk about a party!
☕ 😁

That is a brilliant idea. We would just have to award points to everyone, because otherwise, there would be no point in finishing 11th, since everyone from 11th down to 25th would be fighting tooth and nail to finish last instead.

Chris Ortiz said:That is a brilliant idea. We would just have to award points to everyone, because otherwise, there would be no point in finishing 11th, since everyone from 11th down to 25th would be fighting tooth and nail to finish last instead.

I don't think they'd be fighting to be last... 🤷 The ultimate goal is still those precious points. If you finish 12th, you're always hoping for a little chaos—maybe two cars ahead collide—and suddenly, you're in the points! Besides, every single point matters when you're sitting at the negotiating table with sponsors or working out financial deals. And honestly, if you stay stuck in 12th, it doesn't really matter if you're 12th or 23rd since you didn't score either way. The only real consequence is that someone might leapfrog you in the standings, which actually helps you because you'll start ahead of them in the next race. At the end of the day, it's all about the championship standings, not just how you finished in the previous race.
I haven't spent too much time overanalyzing this—it's just something that crossed my mind a few years back when it used to drive me crazy seeing the fastest cars pull away instantly at the start, kind of like what we saw this past Sunday...😁
In my opinion, I'm 99.9% sure the final race results would look pretty much the same as they do now with qualifying. The only difference is that us fans would finally get to enjoy the chaos, the constant overtaking, and some truly tense racing!😬

I actually think the rules from WTCC were pretty solid.
They use weight penalties as a sort of handicap system.
For instance, the leader gets slapped with a 100 kg weight penalty, second place gets 80 kg, and so on—it might make things a bit more interesting during seasons where one driver just completely dominates everyone else.

Honestly, if you listen to most of the drivers, there’s one thing they almost all agree on: the racing would be way more intense and actually fair if everyone was running identical chassis with just their own engines. But of course, that doesn't fly with the big shots running this circus, so we don't get anything close to that. Wouldn't it be a million times more fun to watch actual competition instead of staring at these massive, ridiculous performance gaps on the track? It's just frustrating, man.

William Bennett53 said:Total respect for Sebastian Vettel after such a flawlessly executed race—one truly worthy of a two-time world champion. 🙏 He silenced a lot of the doubters today, and it’s clear he’s matured significantly compared to last year. Is it purely a result of his growing experience, or perhaps just the benefit of having less pressure on the title since someone else already has it in their sights? 🙏

That being said, Jenson Button also shut down his critics. I think we should stop the habit of trying to pigeonhole him alongside names like Massa or Webber. Bravo, Jenson! 🙏 🙏

Sebastian Vettel
Flawless. Dominant. Smooth. Just plain undeniable. Great job by the kid—qualifying, the start, the race itself... everything was masterclass level. 🙏
I'm rooting for him to hit Schumacher's 2002 or 2004 numbers by the end of the season!

It’s wild how much things have changed since 2010, both in terms of the driver and the team setup (they're almost looking like Ferrari again 😁).
What a boring 🤷 season it's been, yet somehow I'm enjoying this more and more.
This synergy between the driver and the car is getting close to what Formula 1 is supposed to look like at its best.

William Bennett53 said:Total respect for Sebastian Vettel after such a flawlessly executed race—one truly worthy of a two-time world champion. 🙏 He silenced a lot of the doubters today, and it’s clear he’s matured significantly compared to last year. Is it purely a result of his growing experience, or perhaps just the benefit of having less pressure on the title since someone else already has it in their sights? 🙏

That being said, Jenson Button also shut down his critics. I think we should stop the habit of trying to pigeonhole him alongside names like Massa or Webber. Bravo, Jenson! 🙏 🙏

Jenson Button
Flawless driving, too. Honestly, I’m a sucker for that kind of class.
This is probably turning into a total nightmare for Hamilton.

I don't know how many of us actually took TBF seriously when he kept rambling about Jenson Button’s supposed standing within the team. The outcome of these negotiations will settle things pretty quickly. That one-year deal he’s supposedly pushing for smells like a desperate attempt to squeeze out the competition—and let's be honest, there are very few people left with enough cash to actually pay him.

nimblesurfer17 said:signature..
I don't get why he was even penalized. It was a bad call, a racing incident—just move on...
They are totally overdoing it with these penalties. Like someone else mentioned, at this rate, they'll be penalizing drivers just for failing to maintain a specific following distance!🤮
And yeah, I'm just waiting for them to hand Grandpa a five-place grid penalty at the next race—now that would be a real hit.🙄

As for that news from RTL's...🤦
Nowadays, it feels like absolutely anyone can write the news...🙄 He managed to survive.🤦

Of course it was a racing incident. You're right.
I guess I should actually be happy with how things played out. Even with a faster car, Hamilton still ended up finishing behind Alonso. Again. In chess terms, who wouldn't take the sacrifice of a knight—or maybe a rook, if we're being honest?😁Is he playing for the win or just babysitting Hamilton? Honestly, Massa’s position isn't even that big of a deal. It’s hardly a tragedy that he ended up where he did instead of grabbing sixth.

I’m still not happy about it. Honestly, nothing gets under my skin more than people who constantly cross the line. Or those drivers who see a yellow light and just lift off the throttle instead of actually hitting the brakes. Figuratively speaking, I'm talking about Lewis Hamilton. He's a total traffic delinquent.

Look, I’m just saying—it wouldn't be such a big deal if that racing incident was just a one-off.
The real problem is when you already know it’s just a matter of time before things go south—and you know exactly who's going to cause the mess.
Lewis is beyond saving. Honestly, that's just how it is now. I should probably be happy about it, since he's driving for such a massive rival, but it doesn't really change much.
Someone else needs to take a crack at this.

Anyway, almost immediately after the race—we’re talking as early as yesterday and today—his die-hard supporters and inner circle are already out in force, preaching about how much Lewis Hamilton needs a total mindset shift. It’s pretty telling.

Interesting

Look, I’m not trying to defend Vettel and the rest, but this stat is actually pretty wild:

Massa has been cursed since the start of the year.

While Vettel seems to have everything going his way this season, there’s another top driver on the grid who just can't catch a break. Everything that can go wrong, does. We're talking about Felipe Massa. Here’s a quick rundown of his nightmare season so far:

Malaysia: lost time in the pits
Turkey: lost time in the pits twice
Spain: gearbox failure
Monaco: collision with Hamilton
Canada: hit a trailing HRT fan
Europe: lost time in the pits
Germany: lost a wheel nut in the pits
Canada: went off track, damaged front wing
Belgium: punctured tire
Italy: hit by Webber
Singapore Grand Prix: hit by Hamilton and a puncture

Despite all that chaos, Massa has still managed to score points in every single one of the last eight races.

Honestly, it's no wonder Massa is frustrated. Sure, Hamilton has been his biggest headache among the drivers, but let's be real—the massive incompetence from Ferrari has cost him way more.🤷

Amanda Kelly said:Jenson Button
Flawless driving, too. Honestly, I’m a sucker for that kind of class.
This is probably turning into a total nightmare for Hamilton.

I don't know how many of us actually took TBF seriously when he kept rambling about Jenson Button’s supposed standing within the team. The outcome of these negotiations will settle things pretty quickly. That one-year deal he’s supposedly pushing for smells like a desperate attempt to squeeze out the competition—and let's be honest, there are very few people left with enough cash to actually pay him.

I don't see where Button could possibly go, given his current form, other than Ferrari or Red Bull. However, Red Bull seems like a questionable choice considering they already have far too many drivers crowded into their camp. Not to mention the fact that Sebastian Vettel, much like Fernando Alonso, doesn't handle internal team rivalry particularly well. Ferrari, on the other hand, is desperate for a top-tier driver and would be a logical choice if he truly wants to switch teams; yet, one has to wonder what happens if Button starts treating Alonso the way he’s treating Hamilton this year...

All things considered, from my perspective, it seems best for Button to stay right where he is. I suspect all this tension regarding the contract and the threats of leaving are merely leverage for negotiations. Then again, wasn't that exactly how things looked at the end of '09 with Brawn?

William Bennett53 said:I don't see where Button could possibly go, given his current form, other than Ferrari or Red Bull. However, Red Bull seems like a questionable choice considering they already have far too many drivers crowded into their camp. Not to mention the fact that Sebastian Vettel, much like Fernando Alonso, doesn't handle internal team rivalry particularly well. Ferrari, on the other hand, is desperate for a top-tier driver and would be a logical choice if he truly wants to switch teams; yet, one has to wonder what happens if Button starts treating Alonso the way he’s treating Hamilton this year...

All things considered, from my perspective, it seems best for Button to stay right where he is. I suspect all this tension regarding the contract and the threats of leaving are merely leverage for negotiations. Then again, wasn't that exactly how things looked at the end of '09 with Brawn?

Give me a break with all this crying🤣

William Bennett53 said:I don't see where Button could possibly go, given his current form, other than Ferrari or Red Bull. However, Red Bull seems like a questionable choice considering they already have far too many drivers crowded into their camp. Not to mention the fact that Sebastian Vettel, much like Fernando Alonso, doesn't handle internal team rivalry particularly well. Ferrari, on the other hand, is desperate for a top-tier driver and would be a logical choice if he truly wants to switch teams; yet, one has to wonder what happens if Button starts treating Alonso the way he’s treating Hamilton this year...

All things considered, from my perspective, it seems best for Button to stay right where he is. I suspect all this tension regarding the contract and the threats of leaving are merely leverage for negotiations. Then again, wasn't that exactly how things looked at the end of '09 with Brawn?

As far as Button is concerned, it might actually be best if Hamilton continues to get more frustrated until he eventually leaves McLaren; maybe then Button would finally get the respect he deserves. He certainly doesn't deserve to run out of fuel in Turkey or to be called into the pits during qualifying at Monza. Looking at the driving over these last two years—with Sebastian Vettel knocking him out of the title fight last year, and Hamilton almost always sabotaging himself—he really should have been at least an equal, if not the lead driver. Regardless of how much McLaren talks about parity, let's be real: those two are anything but equals. Besides, would Button ever even seriously consider leaving McLaren?

I think Jenson Button is smart enough to realize that jumping to any other top-tier team means accepting a supporting role. He doesn't have to deal with that here—or if there were hints of it before, they’re definitely gone now.

The only real question is how much longer he stays in Formula 1 while still having a shot at the title. Nothing else matters to him anymore; he’s already been a champion, and now his only motivation is winning another one (which, as we can see, is going to be a massive uphill battle). Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if he looks into racing in other classes like GT soon... he’d likely get McLaren's backing there and could actually contend for titles again...

If they don't come up with something to make Red Bull less dominant quickly, next season is just going to be a total snooze fest. People only needed one Schumacher; we don't need another one like him. 🙄

William Bennett53 said:I don't see where Button could possibly go, given his current form, other than Ferrari or Red Bull. However, Red Bull seems like a questionable choice considering they already have far too many drivers crowded into their camp. Not to mention the fact that Sebastian Vettel, much like Fernando Alonso, doesn't handle internal team rivalry particularly well. Ferrari, on the other hand, is desperate for a top-tier driver and would be a logical choice if he truly wants to switch teams; yet, one has to wonder what happens if Button starts treating Alonso the way he’s treating Hamilton this year...

All things considered, from my perspective, it seems best for Button to stay right where he is. I suspect all this tension regarding the contract and the threats of leaving are merely leverage for negotiations. Then again, wasn't that exactly how things looked at the end of '09 with Brawn?

The current setup puts Button in a great spot, giving him some serious—and well-earned—leverage in talks.

He’s an incredibly fast driver who needs a quick car if he wants to stay at the top. Right now, he’s got it. Honestly, I don't even think the drivers are pushing the McLaren to its absolute limit in these last few races. That car is more than ready to win. They’ve clearly made some crucial breakthroughs, either with the aero or tire management (which are basically the same thing anyway), over the last three or four races.

Funny enough, Ross Brawn wasn't even willing to offer him a championship bonus, which actually worked out perfectly for Button.

I think Jenson Button is making the smartest move by sticking with McLaren. With all these rule changes coming, you never know which team will suddenly find themselves at the front of the pack mid-season. Right now, McLaren seems to have the best development curve. Even if they get hit hard by regulation shifts halfway through the year, they clearly have a competitive car on their hands. Besides, neither Ferrari with Fernando Alonso nor Red Bull with Sebastian Vettel would be particularly thrilled to take over those seats. Moving teams always carries a risk, and honestly, outside of those big three, the only logical destination would be Mercedes—assuming Schumacher moves on after this season or next. If things keep going this way, I wouldn't be surprised if an impulsive driver like Hamilton starts looking for an exit. I don't think it’s wise, but he strikes me as someone who acts on impulse. No matter how fast Hamilton is, I don't think he has the technical leadership skills to develop a car the way Button, Alonso, Schumacher, and the other veterans can. Personally, I'd love to see the top three teams keep their current lineups, maybe seeing Kubica or Raikkonen join Mercedes. If those two return to Formula 1 next year and perform like they used to, provided they have a decent car, next season could be legendary.
Regarding Hamilton's penalty, I think it's nonsense. Even if the guy is reckless on track sometimes, I don't believe these kinds of calls should result in penalties. The consistency from the stewards is non-existent. I still remember Fisichella doing the exact same thing to Schumacher during that final race of the 2006 championship while the title fight was still live, and he didn't get penalized. To me, that belongs in the category of driving errors. Letting some stewards interpret mistakes as intentional when it isn't blatantly obvious is madness. It's the same story with Schumacher in Monaco during qualifying—stewards called it intentional instead of a mistake and handed out penalties. Unless it's a clear-cut case where there's zero doubt, like Coulthard and Schumacher at Spa, I don't support these penalties. As long as there is any reasonable doubt, the stewards should stay out of it.

Amanda Kelly said:The current setup puts Button in a great spot, giving him some serious—and well-earned—leverage in talks.

He’s an incredibly fast driver who needs a quick car if he wants to stay at the top. Right now, he’s got it. Honestly, I don't even think the drivers are pushing the McLaren to its absolute limit in these last few races. That car is more than ready to win. They’ve clearly made some crucial breakthroughs, either with the aero or tire management (which are basically the same thing anyway), over the last three or four races.

Funny enough, Ross Brawn wasn't even willing to offer him a championship bonus, which actually worked out perfectly for Button.

Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. It’s almost as if Hamilton and his teammate aren't even the most formidable pairing on the grid right now🙄. Sure, Button might lack that singular burst of speed, but then how do we explain why Hamilton—who is arguably the fastest driver out there—is constantly lagging behind Sebastian Vettel in qualifying, often by half a second or more? Not to mention Webber consistently securing front-row starts. The McLaren is good, truly excellent, but the Red Bull crew is operating on another level entirely. It felt like Vettel had a two-second advantage after just the first three corners in Singapore🙄. Honestly, I don't know; if you're enjoying this, more power to you (though I genuinely don't see how), but for me, this is becoming dreadfully tedious. If it weren't for the duo at McLaren, there would be absolutely nothing worth watching.

Neither Lewis Hamilton nor Jenson Button are going anywhere... at least not while those other two teams are this dialed in. Vettel isn't moving an inch anytime soon, unless maybe Alonso tells the Italians off and they go hunting for a new speedster.

As for the McLaren drivers not squeezing everything out of the car... I won't even go there. Qualifying and the first five laps in Singapore made that obvious. The only thing I don't get is why Webber can't find that same pace; I'm convinced their cars aren't even identical.

So, did they really just go ahead and explain the other day how Mark Webber is merely a second-tier driver?