2010 British GP - Silverstone (July 11)

silvercobra68 said:Anyway, Felipe Massa is in a real tough spot. He deals with constant headaches and his tinnitus seems to be getting worse—but nobody really talks about it, I guess.

Where are you even getting this info?
If it's true, I actually feel bad for him. 😢

Mark Ruiz8 said:Where on earth are you getting this info?
If it's actually true, I really feel for him. 😢

silvercobra68 has connections everywhere, total insiders

Nicole Reyes97 said:Look, man, I know what I heard. ☕ I wasn't watching the TV at that exact second, but I highly doubt Blaž is actually stupid enough to mistake Vettel's car. 🤷
And honestly, I'm not going to bother with his lap time math because, frankly, I don't care.

Think whatever you want. I couldn't care less.👍

I guess you both have a point. 😁 Blaž did say that, if I recall correctly, 😁 but then again, Webber didn't end up lapping him—they actually called him into the pits to prevent that from happening. 🤣 😁

cosmicridge5 said:You both have a point here 😁--I swear Blaž actually said that too, I remember it clearly-- 😁but Mark Webber ended up lapping him anyway, though they did call him into the pits to try and dodge that whole mess 🤣 😁

thanks 😉 finally someone making sense 🙏
I know I heard that somewhere—not making it up (well, not yet 😁)—it's just that since I didn't see it with my own eyes, that's where I tripped up 🥳

cosmicridge5 said:You both have a point 😁 Blaž actually said that, I remember it too 😁 but Mark Webber didn't end up lapping him; they called him into the pits to prevent that 🤣 😁

Keep it down, he’s actually good. That guy from ESPN (or maybe it was Blaž, kill me, I can't remember anymore 🤣) decided around lap 45 that Webber had spun off and just started screaming like a lunatic 🤣

He mixed up Alguersari's and Webber's names a bit 🤣

Anyway, that's probably the only thing Red Bull did right during that whole mess 🤣

Trulli, Kov, and the rest of the crew basically cleared out of the way when Vettel charged through with Webber right behind him, mostly because the officials were waving blue flags, obviously

Though, who knows, maybe it was just a coincidence 🤣

I mean, Webber had to pit in that 17th lap anyway It made sense to tuck in right behind Lewis Hamilton. If he’d waited a few more laps, he would've been absolutely screwed by the SC, and probably ended up finishing like Alonso 😉

Joshua Newman2 said:Come on, Amanda Kelly, don't tell me you haven't heard of that rule? Forget the fanboy nonsense—have you really watched this much NASCAR all these years and never seen a driver get penalized for cutting a chicane and not giving the position back? I doubt there's a single NASCAR fan out there who doesn't know how this works.

I guess I have to quote myself for you, Michael Lee4, and the rest of you (check post 360):

Roger Wright94 said:Regarding the pass on Robert Kubica, it’s fine. And the penalty makes sense because it’s clearly about principle (fingers crossed they actually stick to that standard), as well as how Fernando Alonso handled it.

It’s really no surprise that Lojzek is staying quiet—honestly. It also makes sense why they took so long to hand down the penalty; it feels like they were essentially giving him a window to wiggle out of the mess—but well, Lojzek just operates on his own logic. 🤣

stormybadger8 said:I get where they're coming from, and fine, whatever—it makes sense to give the championship leader the shiny new parts. No biggie there. But stripping parts off one car to fix another? That’s just sketchy and honestly pretty dumb.

A 12-point lead (which is basically just one fourth-place finish under this scoring system) is nothing. Using that as the sole excuse for such a questionable call is just insulting to anyone who actually follows NASCAR. Seriously, how many people have I heard defend that logic? Almost nobody.

Both guys at Red Bull Racing have an equal shot at the title right now, so Christian Horner's excuses are total bullshit. Just pick a side already instead of screwing over the fans and the drivers. They're wasting a killer car with this kind of management.
Honestly, this is disappointing. I'm not even a die-hard NASCAR fanatic anymore and I barely care who wins, but I can only imagine how pissed Mark Webber must be, especially since he's been in peak form all season.

Matthew Kim8 said:A 12-point lead (basically just one fourth-place finish under this new scoring system) is an incredibly thin margin. Using that as the sole justification for such a questionable call is pretty much a slap in the face to any NASCAR fan's logic—at least from what I've seen, I haven't heard anyone significant defend that reasoning.

Both drivers at Red Bull Racing have basically equal shots at the championship, and they had that same math available when the decision was made, so I guess Christian Horner's comments are pure bullshit. They should just pick a side and stop messing with the fans and their own drivers. Bad management is honestly just wasting a phenomenal car.
I’m pretty disappointed by this, and I’m not even a die-hard NASCAR fanatic anymore—I almost don't care who wins at this point. But I can only imagine how livid the guy directly affected must be—Mark Webber, who happens to be in the best form of his life this season.

And here is Jergović's take on the whole mess 😁

http://www.f1-hr.com/clanak/webberov-bumerang

I wouldn't say I'm his biggest fan, but I actually agree with this column.

redheron12 said:It’s probably no surprise that Lojzek is staying quiet. I guess it makes sense why they took so long to hand down the penalty; they were essentially giving him enough time to wiggle out of the mess. But hey, maybe Lojzek just operates on his own logic. 🤣

Oh, please. 😁
Maybe they would have just told him while Robert Kubica was already miles behind? Like, when he was already way too far back to matter?
🤷

So, according to you guys, should Alonso have just put it in reverse to hand over the position? 🤣

Mark Ruiz8 said:Sure, let's just blame Alonso's bad luck with the SC timing and the penalty, but Massa? Honestly, what was he even doing? I'm genuinely disappointed.

Wrong... The FIA messaged Ferrari three separate times telling Alonso to give the spot back without a penalty. It wasn't until the third time they finally slapped him with one, which just happened to overlap with the SC... basically, total incompetence.

What about Massa? What's there to be disappointed about? Alonso hit him, and then this guy punctures his tire and has to pit on the second lap.

cosmicridge5 said:And here’s Jergović's take on the whole mess 😁

http://www.f1-hr.com/clanak/webberov-bumerang

Not exactly his biggest fan, but I actually agree with this column.

Alright, first comment I saw from some "expert" thinking Christian Horner's logic makes sense. Personally? Doesn't hold water. In past seasons, I doubt a team would make moves mid-season over a measly 5-point gap—especially just thirty minutes before qualifying, right???!!—while claiming both drivers are still equal.

As for the rest of the piece, yeah, Mark Webber is digging his own grave. But let's be real, most people would do the exact same thing in his shoes since Red Bull clearly isn't running an even playing field at all.

cosmicridge5 said:Oh, come on... 😁

Is it possible they just didn't tell him until Robert Kubica was already way back there? He was trailing by quite a bit by then—honestly. 🤷

So, what you're saying is Fernando Alonso should have just put it in reverse to hand over the spot? 🤣

I'm not sure which part of "immediately, the second he overtook him" isn't making sense to you. 😛

Michael Lee4 said:Actually, that's not how it went down. The FIA gave Ferrari three separate warnings to have Alonso give the position back without facing a penalty. It wasn't until after the third notice that they finally slapped him with one—which just happened to conveniently line up perfectly with the SC. In short, who gives a damn?

There’s a bit of a problem when you look at this incident, though. People are letting their personal grudge against one of the drivers—or maybe the whole team—cloud the actual facts.
I honestly think that having so many different players involved just muddies the water. It makes it impossible to look at the situation objectively when everyone has their own skin in the game.

If you guys feel like picking this apart a little longer, here’s what I’ve got.
Look, if I’ve already managed to get on everyone's nerves with my constant complaining, just skip the rest.

There’s a massive difference between the Kubica-Alonso situation at Indianapolis and all those other cases you guys keep linking to.

Robert Kubica wasn't exactly playing defense there!
Defensive driving is justified. It’s the only real solution when you've got a rival breathing down your neck, whether they're right on your bumper or just trying to find a gap.

Alonso's overtake was actually pretty impressive. On the outside.It’s not like that mess where Lewis was fighting Kimi on the inside. That's a crucial distinction. Alonso driving on the outside doesn't cause any issues or get in Robert Kubica's way at all since he's holding the inside line.
In this scenario, Alonso dove into that first sharp left-hander—the 90-degree one—side-by-side with Kubica. They were basically bumper to bumper at the entry.
In a situation like that, Robert Kubica should have given him some breathing room. Instead, he didn't leave any space at all—he practically shoved him off the track. Honestly, Kubica saw he was done for; if he hadn't acted, he would've been swallowed up the second he exited, so he made the call to force Fernando Alonso out.
That was a dirty move, plain and simple. It wasn't just taking the racing line; it was cheap.
If you're running side-by-side, you've got to leave enough room for the other guy.Look, that corner is part of the track, and there was plenty of room for both of them. It wasn't some reckless move; it was just a rational choice by Kubičin.
What if there was just a wall right there on the right? Would anything actually change?

Feel free to watch the video, if you even have the energy left for it.

Roger Wright94 said:There’s a certain issue when analyzing this specific incident—a bit of underlying antagonism toward one of the participants, whether you're looking at the driver or the team.
I honestly feel that this bias prevents a truly independent look at what actually happened on the track.

Well, if you have the patience to pick this apart with me just a little longer, here is my take.
On the other hand, if I’ve already become a nuisance with these observations, please feel free to skip ahead.

There is a distinct difference between the Kubica-Alonso situation at Indianapolis and all those other clips being linked here.

Kubica wasn't playing defense!
Defensive driving is perfectly justifiable when an opponent is positioned behind you, either partially or fully.

Alonso’s overtake attempt was on the outside, which isn't at all like that move Lewis made on Kimi by diving up the inside. That distinction is vital. When Alonso takes the outside line, he isn't obstructing or hindering Kubica, who holds the inside.
In this specific instance, Alonso entered the corner essentially side-by-side with Kubica (at most, just a bumper away). I am referring to the entry into that first sharp left-hander—the 90-degree turn.
In a scenario like that, Kubica was obligated to leave him enough breathing room, yet he didn't leave any space at all; instead, he practically squeezed him out. Of course, Kubica realized he was in trouble because he would have been overtaken immediately upon exiting the turn, so he deliberately forced Alonso wide.
That was a dirty move, rather than a standard case of holding a racing line.
If the cars are side-by-side, you have to leave your opponent enough room. The corner is part of the track, and there was plenty of space for both of them. It was simply a calculated, rational choice by Kubičin.
What if there had been a wall on the right instead? Would we be viewing this the same way?

Feel free to watch the footage again, if you still have the inclination.

👍

Roger Wright94 said:The Kubica-Alonso situation at Indianapolis is totally different from all those other links you guys were posting.

Kubica wasn't even defending!
Defensive driving is actually justified when an opponent is behind you, whether they're fully alongside or just partially.

Alonso made his move on the outside, which isn't like that Lewis move on Kimi on the inside. That’s a huge distinction. When Alonso takes the outside line, he’s not crowding or hurting Kubica, who’s holding the inside.
In this specific instance, Alonso entered the corner neck-and-neck with Kubica (maybe a bumper apart at most). I'm talking about entering that first sharp left turn (90 degrees).
In a setup like that, Kubica had to leave him enough room, but he didn't—he basically shoved him out. Obviously, Kubica saw he was done for since he would've been overtaken immediately upon exiting, so he deliberately forced Alonso wide.
That was a dirty move, not just standard line occupation.
If the cars are side-by-side, you have to give your opponent space. And the corner is part of the track, so there was plenty of room for both of them. It was just a calculated move by Kubica.
What if there had been a wall on the right? Would the logic change then?

Go ahead and watch the replay if you still care.

Oh, so the FIA is just full of it? They don't actually know what they're penalizing, they just pick favorites. They waited until Indianapolis to finally come down hard on Alonso, giving him three warnings before finally cracking down...

Give me a break... Kubica should've given him more than just a sliver of space. It's the same deal: if Alonso had tried to pass on the other side, Kubica would've squeezed him just as hard. This "defending" excuse is nonsense. If he'd already passed, fine, but here? No way. You brake and wait for the next chance, or let's keep it simple: he overtook him illegally, period.

So the statement definitely holds up: "One issue with reviewing this incident is the blatant favoritism toward one participant (be it driver or team).
I think that bias prevents the people involved from looking at the situation objectively." 🍿

redheron12 said:I guess I don't see what part of "immediately, once he overtook him" is confusing to you. 😛

This one: at the moment race control instructed us to give the position back to Robert, it was already clear that Robert had lost too much ground. It was obvious there was an issue and he had fallen behind.😛😛😛 😁

Michael Lee4 said:Give me a break... It's like Robert Kubica had to leave him an opening, not just space. Or maybe if Fernando Alonso had tried to pass him on the other side, he would've just ended up getting run over like Kubica did. This isn't "defending a position." If he actually outpaced him, fine. But this? No way. You either brake and wait for a real shot, or you passed him illegally. End of story.

What about when Michael Schumacher was overtaking Sebastian Vettel?

Roger Wright94 said:What did Michael Schumacher even do when Sebastian Vettel overtook him?

Can't say I remember. Remind me... and what does that have to do with Fernando Alonso?

Michael Lee4 said:I can't quite recall, refresh my memory...

He left him just enough room, maybe by a hair😍

And what does that have to do with Fernando Alonso?

Well, if you're just out to hate on Fernando Alonso blindly, then I guess it doesn't matter at all.😁

I suppose this whole debate really boils down to whether it's more biased to blindly loathe him or to worship him.🙏 🤣

I honestly love this subforum.😍