Pros and Cons of Sebastian Vettel

silvercobra68 said:there’s nothing going on between us, absolutely nothing; those are just baseless insinuations😉. And hey, you can rest easy knowing we aren't going to include you in our circle, so don't worry about that much🤷

😕🤷 I don't quite follow, but honestly, it doesn't matter. It seems like you've already made up your mind on this one, so I won't ruin the flow of this discussion by dragging it out...☕

silvercobra68 said:Plus, Mark Webber just ate Fettel alive again, so my comparison to Jacques Villeneuve was actually an overstatement. Fettel is looking more and more like Rubens Barrichello.

Exactly. 🙏
The same old Rubens. 🤣

He’s already eating Button for breakfast. Pretty soon he’ll be chewing him up just like Rubens did back in 2008, finishing about 4 times higher in the standings. 👋

Are you even grasping the reality here? By the next race, Sebastian Vettel is going to be leading Mark Webber by at least 7 points, and he'll be ahead of Button by at least 20. 🤣

That's the bottom line.

stormybadger8 said:exactly that 🙏
the same Rubens 🤣

He’s already eaten Jenson Button for breakfast. Give it a bit longer and he'll chew him up just like Rubens did back in the 2008 season, finishing with about four times the points. 👋

Are you actually aware of the reality here? By the next race, Sebastian Vettel is going to be leading Mark Webber by at least 7 points, and he'll be ahead of Button by at least 20. 🤣

Just some food for thought.

😁Ouch, you really cornered him there...👍😁

Up to this point, Sebastian Vettel has been the more successful driver, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. Let’s just be real—regardless of how much the OP might disagree, we have to face the facts. Sebastian Vettel is an elite talent, and now he just needs to seal that legacy with a world championship title...

silvercobra68 said:4) When he's supposed to overtake a slower car ahead, he gets soft and just gives up on the move (Bahrain 2009, Miami 2009)

Point 4 has evolved. It now reads as follows:

4) When he's supposed to overtake a slower car ahead, he acts like a complete idiot and crashes both himself and the other driver

Bradley Nelson2 said:In this year's Red Bull, one driver is clearly dominant. Sure, Webber might pull ahead here and there, but looking at the big picture, Vettel is faster than Webber..

Some people would be better off staying quiet, at least while the season is still fresh.

silvercobra68 said:some people should just shut up, at least while the season is still fresh

I'm 100% with you on this.🤣

That goes for you too, 😬

Right now, Sebastian Vettel is leading Mark Webber in qualifying, even if he looks worse in terms of points and actual races. But by the end of the season? He could easily blow past Mark and take the championship, or he could totally fall apart, stay stuck at 151 points, and look like a complete idiot.☕

Nobody knows what's going to happen, so making any kind of judgment before the season ends is just pointless.☕

To put it simply regarding Sebastian Vettel—he isn't any less foolish or less incompetent than Lewis Hamilton.

I’d go as far as saying Vettel actually edges him out in both categories.

I’m not so sure about that...
Anyone trying to comfort themselves by claiming that Button and Sebastian Vettel still have a fighting chance usually points to the fact that the scoring system changed this year, leaving 150 points on the table while they trail by only about 30. But let’s be realistic: for them to actually become title contenders again, they don't just need luck—they need a massive turnaround. The math simply doesn't add up; they haven't even managed to scrape together 150 points over the first 13 races, yet they're banking on the availability of those same 150 points in the final six as their primary argument for viability. 🤷

It’s been refreshing to watch a NASCAR season where five drivers are essentially neck-and-neck for the championship. Up until Spa-Francorchamps, they were practically inseparable, and while three have slipped slightly behind, they’re still very much in the hunt. I’m hoping we get the most gripping finish in history. But look at the landscape: Lewis Hamilton is fast, arguably faster than his teammate, though he makes the occasional lapse. Mark Webber is quick and remarkably consistent. Fernando Alonso has the speed and enjoys priority within the team, but by his own high standards, he’s being uncharacteristically error-prone. Button isn't exactly the fastest on the grid and tends to lag behind his teammate, yet his precision is nearly flawless. Then there's Sebastian Vettel, who possesses raw speed but hasn't proven he can outpace his teammate, all while struggling with consistency this season.

If we want to see a shake-up, Alonso just needs to tighten up his execution (or, if I may say so, if the Ferrari fans don't mind: catch a bit of a break), especially since his teammate isn't standing in his way. Button’s only path to a reversal depends on something happening to Hamilton—like a sudden string of mistakes—because until he overtakes him, he can't bridge the gap to the rest of the field, and right now, Hamilton is the quicker driver. As for Sebastian Vettel, much like Button, he has to find a way to leapfrog Mark Webber, but he also has to stop making mistakes. So, looking at our three trailing candidates, Sebastian Vettel is the only one facing a double hurdle. Button needs to find more pace, Alonso needs to be more precise, but Vettel needs to do both. His one advantage is having the fastest car on the track; unlike Alonso, if he pulls himself together, he has the tools to drive himself to a title. Still, he's had that superior machinery since the season started and he's *still* trailing, which only reinforces my point: he needs a total upheaval to remain a legitimate threat.

I’m genuinely looking forward to Monza. I really hope at least one of these three manages to close the gap there. If we see a repeat of what happened at Spa-Francorchamps, anyone who stays fast but loses ground will find themselves effectively out of the championship race before the season even ends.

Before the season kicked off, I actually put my money on Sebastian Vettel. Just to be clear—I’m not even a fan of his. I was simply being objective, looking at his sheer drive following Miami 2009 and how much potential there was in Newey's car design.

However, after what happened at Spa-Francorchamps, I’d say his chances of taking the championship are slim to none. For me, Belgium was the breaking point.

I don't view Jenson Button as a serious title contender either, since he really needs specific circumstances to win—like heavy rain or a mistake from Lewis Hamilton. As for Fernando Alonso, I’m still holding out a little hope (though that's purely my own bias...😁).

Between Mark Webber and Lewis Hamilton, I have more faith that Lewis will pull it off. I don't doubt Mark, but that Briton has this intense hunger to prove himself again. I know the Australian hasn't secured a title yet, but... once one of Ron Dennis's guys locks in, they don't let go.

fadedwalker18 said:Before the season kicked off, I put my money on Sebastian Vettel. Just to be clear—I’m not actually pulling for him. I was just being objective, looking at his drive after Miami 2009 and how much Newey's car was going to improve.

But, after Belgium, I’d say his chances of taking the title are basically zero. Belgium was the breaking point for me.

I don't see Jenson Button as a serious favorite either; he needs everything to go perfectly—rain, or some massive blunder from Lewis Hamilton. As for Fernando Alonso, I’m still holding out a tiny bit of hope (purely subjective here... :D).

Between Mark Webber and Lewis Hamilton, I think Lewis is more likely to pull it off. I don't doubt Mark, but the Brit has this massive hunger to prove himself again. Look, the Australian doesn't have a title, but once Ron Dennis's kid gets a grip, he doesn't let go...

what doesn't he let go of? Tiny little guys pushing him back onto the track from the gravel?😂

If anyone has an issue with it, blame Hamilton. Honestly, if the McLaren driver wins the championship, it’s going to be Button, not Hamilton—regardless of how much Witmarshi and Dennis cry about it late into the night until they're bald. That's just how it is.☕

Webber has a huge shot, but it wouldn't take much for him to lose every single chance in just two races.🤣

The championship is set up like this:

An imaginary start in Monza:

1. Webber
2. Hamilton

they crash out in the first corner and we end up with:
Button, Vettel, and Alonso on the podium, all within a few points of the leader.☕

Vettel could be at -6 points (which resets if he wins the next race even if Hamilton takes 2nd).
Button is at -10.
Alonso is at -16.

All of this is totally recoverable in just two out of six remaining races without needing some crazy alien scenario to happen.

Vettel was trailing Button by about 35 points (87.5 under the new rules), so he caught up and almost overtook him by the end of the season. Kimi was trailing by 17 points (42.5 under the new rules) going into the last two races and ended up catching and passing both Hamilton and Alonso.🤣

Which means realistically, 42.5 x 3 (for 6 races) = 127.5. Rosberg has a chance, but grandpa doesn't.😬

Rosberg for the No. 1 driver spot at MGP.😳

stormybadger8 said:An imaginary start in Monza:

1. Mark Webber
2. Lewis Hamilton

They wreck out in the first turn, leaving us with Button, Sebastian Vettel, and Fernando Alonso on the podium...

How many times this season have the top two guys wiped each other out in the opening corner?

Honestly, there's a better chance one of those three behind them ends up crashing instead.

Oh, I have one more thought regarding this discussion about Seb and his sheer guts.

Anyone competing in NASCAR has nerve. But, let’s be honest... there are levels to this.

Fernando Alonso drives with caution. He isn't going to take an insane risk just for the sake of it. Neither will Jenson Button, and while Mark Webber isn't exactly a daredevil either, he definitely has those flashes of pure madness.

Lewis Hamilton certainly has the nerve, but Seb takes the cake here... which explains why he made so many mistakes; he was always pushing the limit.

Speaking of guts, Rubens Barrichello showed us his biggest moment of the year when he practically kissed that wall at Indianapolis Motor Speedway.

But if we're talking about true, fearless bravery... that belongs to Kamui. The guy is a whirlwind of positive courage (if you'll excuse my poetic phrasing 😁), to the point where he actually drove Ružić right to the edge of being fired.

stormybadger8 said:What isn't he letting go of? Little kids pushing him onto the track from the gravel trap?😂

Ah. The American learned how to handle the rough patches (just look at his off-road excursion at Spa-Francorchamps). He’s also learning from his other mistakes—though being honest isn't exactly his specialty. Meanwhile, Seb is still in the process of learning from his own errors. He trips up, sure, but it'll all work out. Someday. One day. At the end of the day, Ron gave Lewis much more "wisdom" than Christian Horner ever gave Seb. 😁

Here is an interesting perspective that actually aligns quite closely with what Vettel was thinking: http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_feature_item.php

Your link is broken😉

You probably meant this 🤔

I actually agree with this. It’s pretty surprising coming from a site that's basically a mouthpiece for the British, but the logic here is solid.

That media influence is wild if you think about it.🤣

Just look at it:

Nobody was really tearing into Fernando Alonso back then, and nobody is doing it now either—even though the guy has been a total mess for four seasons straight, and he's easily the most expensive driver in today's NASCAR.

Nobody makes a big deal out of Kimi either. He won his title on some insane stroke of luck that honestly sounds like a clickbait headline.😁 Personally, I was stoked for him,🙏 but let's be real: his time at Ferrari was basically a coma.

And nobody ever called out Lewis Hamilton for all his nonsense. Even though he's been driving one of the best cars since the start of his career—cars that were occasionally downright dominant—he only managed one title, and he barely scraped it by thanks to a totally clueless Timo Glock.😳 I mean, what kind of "champion" barely edges out Glock in the final lap of the final race🤣 to steal the title in the dying seconds? And his only real competition was Massa.🤣

Bottom line: whether we're looking at 2007 or just now, if Vettel wins a title through some fluke, it'll still be way more deserved than Kimi's (if you only count his Ferrari years) or Lewis Hamilton's title.

Even if he doesn't win anything else, it's not like he's running out of time in his career.☕

That’s exactly what I was getting at. Honestly, I have no idea where things went off the rails...

I wouldn't call this journalism. You can't just hype up the "nationally approved" drivers; publishing pieces like this ends up dragging the entire site's reputation through the mud. I'll admit, I was caught a bit off guard myself. After seeing how Vettel acted following that collision in Turkey, I was so gripped by disappointment that I started forgetting he’s actually a top-tier driver. Losing his cool like that certainly won't help his reputation in my book, but there's no denying he's a first-class talent. 🙏

As for your take on Lewis Hamilton... Look, I find him unlikable too (as most people do), but the guy is having an incredible season. The fact that he’s been one of the strongest title contenders despite starting out in a much slower car than Vettel or Mark Webber speaks volumes. We'll see if the cards flip at Monza, but right now, it looks like he might actually walk away with a pretty dominant championship win.

Joshua Newman2 said:That's what I was thinking. Honestly, I have no clue where things went sideways.

If you call this journalism, we have a problem. You can't just hype up the "safe" drivers and expect us to swallow it; this kind of fluff drags the whole site's reputation down. Honestly, I was a little caught off guard myself. After seeing how Lewis Hamilton lost his cool following that crash in the US, I actually started forgetting he’s one of the best in the business. Sure, losing his head like that isn't going to help his image with me anytime soon, but let's be real—the guy is an absolute world-class driver.

Regarding your take on Lewis Hamilton... Look, I get it. He’s not exactly everyone's favorite guy, myself included. But man, he is putting in an absolute masterclass this season. The fact that he’s been fighting for the title from day one while stuck in a slower car than Vettel and Mark Webber says everything you need to know. Maybe things will flip at Monza, but right now? It honestly looks like he might just steamroll his way to a dominant championship win.

I'm with you on this one—this is definitely Hamilton's season. 🙏

I’m being dead serious when I say there’s no reserve here: he is hands down the best driver this season. Honestly though, his previous seasons have been a total disaster. You give him an incredible car, let him dominate, and then the whole system just falls apart right at the finish line.😉

Vettel is basically the opposite, honestly. Every single one of his seasons has been pretty much trashed right from the jump, only for him to turn it around and drive like a beast in the second half. He’s always been at his absolute best during that late-season surge. Every season has followed that exact pattern—except for this one.😢

2007
2008 It was easily his best season, especially how much better he looked in the second half. It’s a shame, really. If he’d been driving for a top-tier outfit like Ferrari or McLaren back then, he’d probably be sitting on two titles by now.
2009 Red Bull Racing was just too weak this season, honestly. They looked great during the second half, but that massive handicap at Monza killed them. Seeing how much McLaren dominated there—that might have been the real turning point for the whole season.
Even with that massive head start, I still think he would’ve caught him if he'd crossed the line first at Monza. Honestly? I just think Jenson Button would've cracked under the pressure.

We might see a repeat of this season, but if he manages to pull up right next to Lewis Hamilton, Jenson Button, and Mark Webber—or somehow finds a way to outpace them in some freakish combination—I’d honestly put money on him taking the title right after.😉

Still, there's plenty of time left, and Monza is one of those races he’ll be thinking about for the rest of his life regardless. 🙏
She came along and took everything from him.

I know exactly what I want. 🙂

Man, there aren't many fans out there rooting for teams like Toro Rosso who actually get to see their driver pull off both a win and a P1. It’s a rare sight. 🙏
This has to be his race. This is it. It’s now or never for him this season.😢

It’s a shame. Honestly, I wouldn't have minded if they just took out Kimi at 🙂 to make it happen. You can only imagine what it would've done for Force India and Fisichella if he'd actually pulled off a win there.

🤦

Is Fernando Alonso losing his mind or what?
Someone please explain to me when on earth a McLaren was ever worse than a Toro Rosso. 🙂
And since when was STR a car capable of consistently grabbing 6th place? 🤣

If this is actually a direct quote from him, then 🤦 he’s clearly high on something.
Look, I get that fans talk nonsense, but having a NASCAR driver spout this kind of stupidity is just baffling. 🤷

I'm desperately hoping this is just some fabrication by those Spanish journalists, or maybe just some terrible translation job by our local media.

stormybadger8 said:🤦

Has Fernando Alonso lost his mind? What is he even thinking?
Can someone please explain to me when the McLaren was ever a worse car than the Toro Rosso?🙂
And since when was the STR capable of consistently grabbing 6th place?🤣

If this really is his statement, then 🤦 he’s talking pure nonsense.
Look, I get that fans talk trash, but an actual F1 driver spouting such stupidity? I just don't get it.🤷

I'm hoping this is just some fabrication by Spanish journalists or perhaps a simple case of bad translation by our local media.

"We'll see how he performs once he has a car capable of finishing sixth. We'll see if he can take second, third, or fourth places then. So far, we've only seen him in the fastest car, the one that secured the title with five races left in the season," Fernando Alonso added. "So, we have to wait."

I'm not sure where you're getting those comparisons between the McLaren and the Toro Rosso from regarding previous seasons.

Even Jacques Villeneuve fought for the title in his rookie year and won it the next. 😍
To secure a championship, you don't necessarily need the best driver on the grid if you have the clearly superior car. Even an average driver would suffice.

Sebastian Vettel broke plenty of records, sure, but he won those titles in a car that was undeniably the best on the track. It was simply the best.