Pros and Cons of Sebastian Vettel

silvercobra68 said:Red Bull racing has the car to have this year—it’s a dominant machine, period. It was obvious to everyone, but apparently, you didn't notice when Jacques Villeneuve was driving the best car in a team prone to tactical blunders. Give me a break.

That's the bottom line. In my book, the perfect comparison is Fetl = Jacques Villeneuve. That's just the limit of that driver. Hey, look at that, he might even have the potential to become World Champion.

🙏 See? I’d love to see Vettel and Hamilton swap seats.☕
I'm dying to know if Hamilton would actually finish a single race in that insanely dominant car.

Personally, I don't think he would.

Jenson Button would probably cruise along, but stuck between 6th and 10th.
Fernando Alonso would likely be winning races, but he'd also have a mountain of DNFs, and he'd probably slap the mechanics and Christian Horner after every single race before giving his press conference statements.🤣

Jenson Button is such an unpredictable driver. He went ten whole years without a single win, and then suddenly, after a decade of nothing, he starts grabbing victories once he gets into a dominant car. And yet, you still have people claiming he just "finally learned how to drive." As if...🤣

stormybadger8 said:🙏 You see, I’d actually love to see Sebastian Vettel and Lewis Hamilton swap seats.☕
I'm genuinely curious if Hamilton would even manage to finish a single race in that incredibly dominant car.

Personally, I don't think he would.

Jenson Button would probably finish steadily, though likely sitting somewhere between 6th and 10th.
Fernando Alonso would probably be winning races, but he'd also have a mountain of DNFs, and he'd spend every post-race press conference slapping the mechanics and Christian Horner before giving his interviews.🤣

Alonso would undoubtedly tear into the team every time there was a mechanical failure, but he'd certainly be taking wins whenever the car held together. Last year, Jenson Button had a dominant car during the first half of the season and was winning regularly. We can safely assume he'd pull off similar results in a Red Bull Racing car. It makes little sense to suggest he could win in a dominant Brawn GP car or even a non-dominant McLaren, yet wouldn't succeed in a dominant Red Bull Racing one... 🤷

We all know Red Bull Racing suffers from reliability issues, but Sebastian Vettel doesn't offer any excuses when he falters due to something other than a technical glitch. That happened in three out of the last five races—including the last one, because even without those brake issues, Mark Webber and Lewis Hamilton would have absolutely dismantled him.

Joshua Newman2 said:Alonso would definitely be tearing his team apart over technical failures, but he’d also probably win every race if the car actually held together. Last year, Jenson Button had a dominant car during the first half of the season and was winning regularly. You can safely assume he'd do the same in a Red Bull Racing. I don't see why he'd manage it in a dominant Brawn GP or even a non-dominant McLaren, but wouldn't be able to pull it off in a dominant Red Bull Racing... 🤷

Red Bull Racing breaks down—we all know that. But Vettel doesn't have any excuses for the times he falls apart when the car is perfectly fine, and this year that happened in three out of five races (counting the last one too, because even without those brake issues, Webber and Hamilton would have smoked him regardless).

Interesting. So why haven't Alonso or Hamilton won, if Vettel and Webber are such losers that they can't handle a dominant car? 🙄

So basically, Red Bull Racing wasn't broken in
Bahrain—Vettel just forgot how to shift
Australia—he forgot how to brake
China—total disaster where he jumped out of the car in the pits to change tires like it was Webber's or his own car
Spain—didn't watch, but heard he forgot how to brake again

Besides, honestly, I'm sick of you fans worshiping the legend of Jenson Button. Before 2009, there wasn't a single person on this forum mentioning him except for Stinger; most people were busy making fun of him. And now, suddenly, he's some god-tier driver?🙄

And just to be clear, the same people who are now praising Vettel after mocking him through mid-2009 drive me absolutely insane.

Once he wins the title next season, you'll all start acting like he's the greatest ever, and I'll be right here spitting on every single one of your posts.

stormybadger8 said:That’s an interesting take, but why didn't Alonso or Hamilton win then? If Vettel and Webber are such amateurs that they can't manage to bring a dominant car home for a win. 🙄

So, Red Bull wasn't broken in
Bahrain—Vettel just forgot how to shift gears.
Australia—he forgot how to brake.
China—what a disaster, he basically jumped out of the car in the pits to change tires himself, just like Webber did on his own car.
Spain—I missed it, but I hear he forgot how to brake again.

In Bahrain, he had that strange spark plug issue (or fuel starvation, whatever the truth was), and in Australia, he had a mechanical failure. There was no breakdown in China, and in Spain, he was absolutely crushed by a much faster Webber before his brake issues even cropped up. Even if he and Hamilton hadn't dealt with technical glitches, he still would have ended up third. Therefore, using a mechanical failure as an excuse simply doesn't hold water.

stormybadger8 said:Besides, frankly, I'm fed up with all you fans worshiping the legend of Jenson Button. Before 2009 started, there wasn't a single mention of him here except for Stinger; in fact, most people were busy making fun of him. And now, suddenly, he's some top-tier driver? 🙄

And just so we're clear, it grinds my gears just as much when the same crowd starts praising Vettel, despite having spent the first half of 2009 laughing at him.

Once he wins the title next season, you'll all start canonizing him, and I'll be right here to spit on every single one of those posts.

I don't know who's paying you, but since you wrote that immediately after my reply, I'm going to assume you're taking a shot at me too. I am not a Jenson Button fan, let alone a devotee. I root for the team (Renault), not the driver. Last year it was Alonso, this year it's Robert Kubica, and next year (hopefully not, but who knows) maybe even that idiot Felipe Massa. The only reason I write about Button so often is because of you. Actually, it's not just you—it's you and Pilatus (the usual breed of die-hard drivers' fans).

stormybadger8 said:Honestly, I’m just completely fed up with all you guys sucking up to Jenson Button. It’s pretty hilarious if you think about it... before 2009 rolled around, there wasn't a single person on this forum praising him, except maybe for the Stinger fans. Most of you were actually busy making fun of him back then. But now? Suddenly he’s some kind of legendary driver or whatever...🙄

stormyviper11 on Button 2006, right here on this same forum: "Look, Button might not have that pure killer instinct, but he’s definitely matured into a driver who knows exactly how to milk a fast car for everything it's worth..." 😉

Look, I’m not claiming to be some kind of genius here, but anyone who actually watches the races—instead of just viewing everything through those biased fanboy goggles—knew a long time ago that there was way more to Jenson Button than his results ever let on...

It’s totally unfair to blame Sebastian Vettel for losing out to Mark Webber in Barcelona.
Webber was on another level—just untouchable. He didn't just win a race; he owned the entire weekend.
Props to him, but let's not get carried away and generalize. If he pulls this off again in the next three, four, or five races, then maybe I'll reconsider how his pace stacks up against Sebastian Vettel.

Speaking of Red Bull Racing in Barcelona, it’s honestly sad—and pretty telling—that everyone is obsessing over Sebastian Vettel’s "defeat" (if you even want to call it that) instead of talking about Mark Webber’s flawless drive and victory.
I'm telling you, it's unfair to both Sebastian Vettel and Mark Webber.

stormyviper11 said:stormyviper11 on Button 2006, right here on this forum: "Button might lack that killer instinct, but he's grown into a driver who knows exactly how to milk a fast car for everything it's worth." 😉

Look, I'm no genius. I'm just saying that anyone actually watching the races—instead of viewing them through some fanboy lens—knew a long time ago there was way more to Button than his results suggested...

🙏 Props to 👍

This post is spot on. Honestly, it's a damn good prophecy. 🙏🙏🙏

stormybadger8 said:claiming McLaren was such a slow bucket of bolts that even Toro Rosso could overtake them on track🙄 or that Timo Glock in that Toyota was faster—give me a break.🤣

We can pretend we don't remember if we really want to lie to ourselves, just like how we're all sitting here insisting Red Bull Racing is miles ahead of everyone else right now, when the reality is that once you actually tally up everything required to win:

Qualifying pace
Race pace
Tire degradation
Strategy
Pit stops and crew efficiency
Reliability

Looking at the field as a whole this season, McLaren barely has anyone breathing down their neck; if you're being honest about the standings, it’s basically:
1. McLaren
2. Ferrari
3. Red Bull Racing

If we wanted to live in a fantasy land, I guess we could claim Force India is the best team out there too.

Having a fast car doesn't mean much if it breaks down constantly or if the team is a mess; they aren't the first or the last group to operate with that kind of half-baked execution.

That’s all fair enough, but saying McLaren has no competition is a bit of a stretch. Maybe the ghosts of Red Bull Racing are haunting him, but they are still 0.8 seconds faster than their closest rival (which is McLaren), so unless the team keeps making questionable decisions, Mark Webber might actually walk away with the title.😬

Roger Wright94 said:It’s totally unfair to blame Sebastian Vettel for losing out to Mark Webber in Barcelona.
Webber was just untouchable—completely in a league of his own. The guy had a perfect weekend, not just a great race.
Props to him, but that's hardly a reason to generalize things, not even close. Let him pull that off in the next three, four, or five races, then maybe I'll reconsider my take on how he stacks up against Vettel.

Speaking of Red Bull Racing in Barcelona, it’s honestly sad, though pretty telling, that everyone is obsessing over Vettel's loss (if you even want to call it that) instead of talking about Mark Webber's flawless drive and victory.
I’m telling you, it’s unfair to both Vettel and Webber.

Yeah, I have to agree, it really is unfair to Webber. But the thing is, most of us have already filed him away in that category of "guys who might pull off a perfect race once or twice a year," kind of like Gerhard Berger, David Coulthard, or even Ralf Schumacher... (though I'd say Rubens Barrichello is more consistent and generally better than those guys...). I still remember the days when the combined force of Ayrton Senna, Alain Prost, Nelson Piquet, and Nigel Mansell couldn't touch Berger, or when Michael Schumacher (the real 😬) looked mediocre compared to Coulthard... But those days were rare and happened only occasionally. And that's the thing with Webber—so far, he hasn't convinced me he can turn those occasional flashes of brilliance into actual consistency. Honestly, I think Jenson Button would be leading the championship if he were driving for Red Bull Racing... 😉 That doesn't mean I think he'd defend the title, but if the leaders keep shooting themselves in the foot and knocking each other out, his consistency could carry him pretty far.

stormyviper11 said:I have to agree, it’s unfair to Mark Webber. But his issue is that most of us seem to have filed him away long ago in that drawer labeled "the guys who pull off one or two perfect races a year"—think along the lines of Gerhard Berger, David Coulthard, or even Ralf Schumacher (though I'd argue Rubens Barrichello was more consistent and generally a better driver than those three...). I still remember the days when the combined force of Ayrton Senna, Alain Prost, Nelson Piquet, and Nigel Mansell couldn't touch Berger, or when Michael Schumacher (the real 😬) looked mediocre compared to Coulthard... but those days were rare and fleeting. It’s the same story with Webber; he hasn't convinced me yet that he can turn those occasional flashes of brilliance into actual consistency. In fact, I suspect Jenson Button might actually be leading the championship if he were driving for Red Bull Racing instead. 😉 That isn't to say I think he'd secure the title, but if the frontrunners continue to shoot themselves in the foot and knock each other out, his steady approach could carry him all the way there.

🙏🙏🙏

stormyviper11 said:... That doesn't mean I think he'll actually defend the title, but if the rest of the pack keeps tripping over themselves and knocking each other out, he could potentially coast his way to it just by being consistent.

Not gonna happen. There are way more sharks in the water this season. Last year, he basically only had to worry about Red Bull Racing.
Now you've got Alonso in the mix (and Hamilton too, obviously).

Roger Wright94 said:Not a chance, because there are way more heavy hitters in the mix this season. Last year he was basically just trading blows with Red Bull Racing.
Now you've got Alonso in the mix too (plus Hamilton, obviously).

Look at it this way:

If the championship title comes down to whether a driver can smash their car through a solid, high stone wall...

...Michael Schumacher would probably just hire a crew to lift the car over the wall and clear it effortlessly.
...Jenson Button would get a crew to help him toss the car over, but then he’d slip on the way and take a tumble, though he’d probably still make it over if he didn't break a leg.
...Lewis Hamilton would just slam full throttle into the wall trying to punch through it, and then immediately blame the wall for the accident.
...Sebastian Vettel would ram the wall at top speed and then spend the afternoon crying to his engineers and the fans about how much of an idiot he was.
...Alonso would organize a whole task force to get over the wall, and he’d likely succeed, but every few tries he’d lose his cool and try to tear the damn wall down instead.
...Felipe Massa would just burst into tears in Smedley's arms and wouldn't even bother trying to scale the thing.
...everyone else wouldn't even be able to find the wall, let alone get past it (though maybe Robert Kubica or Nico Rosberg might eventually figure it out).
...Rubens Barrichello would somehow manage to scale the wall, only to realize someone else had already done it before him.

stormyviper11 said:Let’s put it this way:

If a championship title is decided by whether a driver can drive their car over a massive, solid stone wall...

...Michael Schumacher would assemble a pit crew to help him lift the car over the wall, then he'd clear it effortlessly.
...Jenson Button would get a crew to help lift the car, but he’d probably slip on the way up and fall; even if he doesn't break a leg, he still gets over.
...Lewis Hamilton would slam into the wall at full speed trying to punch through it, and then blame the wall for the accident.
...Sebastian Vettel would smash into the wall with everything he's got, then tear up while apologizing to the team and the fans for being an idiot.
...Fernando Alonso would organize a crew and most likely scale the wall, but every third or fourth time, he'd lose his temper and try to tear the whole wall down.
...Felipe Massa would just burst into tears in Smedley's arms and wouldn't even attempt the climb.
...everyone else wouldn't even be able to find the wall, let alone get over it (though maybe Robert Kubica or Nico Rosberg might eventually figure it out).
...Rubens Barrichello would somehow manage to get over the wall, only to realize someone else had already done it before him.

🤣🤣🤣

And what about a young Nelson Piquet? ☕

Michael Diaz4 said:Don't even try to compare Sebastian Vettel to Jacques Villeneuve. That guy just sat in the most dominant car of his era and rode it to a title. Just look at how much faster Michael Schumacher was in the corners and in the rain🙏 Quote : The Best F1 driver 🙏, while everyone else is just a flash in the pan who disappears the moment they aren't in the fastest car on the grid. Vettel is a completely different breed. He hasn't had a dominant car yet, but he’s consistently been at the top fighting for wins. And then people have the nerve to say he can't drive. He might be the greatest talent of all time (after Michael Schumacher, obviously🙏) and once he gets a reliable car, he’s going to be champion. Even now, he isn't necessarily in the absolute fastest machine (someone already pointed that out), but the unreliability and stupid mechanical failures kill him. He hasn't made a single driving error so far. Why was he pushing on the edge with failing brakes? Because a true killer who has what it takes to be a champion has to mora drive like that. There is zero doubt: he is the best young driver in the entire Formula 1 circus. When threads like this start popping up, you know there's something to it. Hamilton is one of the dimmest drivers I've ever watched; only Andrea de Krasheris was even remotely close to being that clueless (though younger fans probably won't remember him, but he was definitely a moron, much like how we call Hamilton "hamo"😁)

Americans getting worked up again, wow, what happened now? Did someone lose their football game or something?🤣 😠

stormyviper11 said:Let's put it this way:

If the championship title is decided by whether a driver can somehow maneuver their car over a massive, solid stone wall...

...Michael Schumacher would probably assemble a whole crew of people to help him hoist the car over the wall, and then he'd clear it effortlessly.
...Jenson Button would organize a team to lift the car for him, but he’d end up slipping and falling halfway through—so, unless he breaks a leg, he'd eventually make it over.
...Lewis Hamilton would throw himself at the wall with everything he's got, trying to smash right through it, and then blame the wall for the accident.
...Sebastian Vettel would charge full speed into the wall and then burst into tears while apologizing to his team and the fans for being such an idiot.
...Fernando Alonso would gather a crew to help him out and would likely scale the wall, but every third or fourth attempt, he'd lose his temper and try to tear the entire wall down.
...Felipe Massa would just break down in Smedley's arms and wouldn't even bother trying to get over.
...everyone else wouldn't even be able to find the wall, let alone climb it (though maybe Robert Kubica or Nico Rosberg might figure it out eventually).
...Rubens Barrichello would somehow manage to get over the wall, only to realize someone else had already done it before him.

🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂🙏🙏🙏

this actually gave me a good laugh, thanks 👍Michael Diaz4

A little late to the party here, I guess... 😁

...Kimi Raikkonen would’ve probably just downed a liter of vodka, decided he wasn't feeling it, and walked off to go jump over some other walls instead.

stormyviper11 said:Look at it this way:

If the championship title comes down to whether a driver can smash their car through a massive concrete wall...

...Michael Schumacher would just assemble a pit crew to help him launch the car over the wall, and he'd clear it.
...Jenson Button would get a crew to lift the car, slip on his own feet while trying, and end up over the wall—probably with a broken leg.
...Lewis Hamilton would just ram the wall at full speed, try to break right through it, and then blame the damn wall for the accident.
...Sebastian Vettel would slam into the wall, then tear up while apologizing to the team and the fans for being an idiot.
...Fernando Alonso would organize a crew and likely make it over, but every few tries he'd lose his mind and try to just knock the whole wall down.
...Felipe Massa would just burst into tears in Andy Smoldy's arms and wouldn't even bother trying to climb.
...everyone else wouldn't even find the wall, let alone get over it (though Robert Kubica or Nico Rosberg might figure it out eventually).
...Rubens Barrichello would somehow scramble over the wall, only to realize someone else already did it before him.

🙏🙏🙏 nailed it 🤣🤣🤣

Bonus question though: where's Mark Webber? 😁

He'd probably just ram someone else into the wall and then wonder why that happened. 🤣

I don't know what you're trying to say. You're just typing random letters. Get to the point. kaže:
Yeah, I have to agree, it’s unfair to Mark Webber. But honestly, that’s his own fault for being filed away in most of our minds a long time ago as one of those guys who pulls off a perfect race once or twice a year—kind of like Gerhard Berger, David Coulthard, or even Ralf Schumacher. (Though, if we're being real, I think Rubens Barrichello was more consistent and generally better than that bunch.) I still remember the days when even a lineup of Ayrton Senna, Alain Prost, Nelson Piquet, and Nigel Mansell couldn't touch Gerhard Berger, back when Michael Schumacher was actually in his prime. 😬He looked pretty mediocre compared to David Coulthard... But those kinds of days were rare, just occasional flashes. It’s the same story with Mark Webber; he still hasn't convinced me he can turn those brief moments of brilliance into actual consistency. Honestly, if Jenson Button were driving for Red Bull Racing, I think he’d be leading the championship right now. 😉 Look, I’m not saying he’s definitely going to defend the title. But if the rest of the field keeps shooting themselves in the foot—maybe they'll even take each other out at some point—he could honestly coast his way to it just by being consistent.

I'm with you—Jenson Button definitely has a shot. If he were in that Red Bull Racing seat, he’d be banking points left and right, consistently grabbing third, fourth, or fifth place finishes. Throw in a few wins when the competition trips over their own feet, and he might actually pull off a championship. He’s easily one of the most consistent drivers out there. Sure, he isn't going to dominate every race unless the car is in a completely different league, but he'll always be up there. It's rare to see him finish outside the top ten or DNF. He’s basically the perfect number two driver, but honestly? He's dangerous for whoever is sitting in the number one spot. If Hamilton starts playing stupid games and making unforced errors, Button will be right there to capitalize on it.👍

I’d say he’s right on the edge between the elite tier and the rest of the pack. He just sits there waiting for those guys at the top to trip up, and then he pounces.

stormyviper11 said:Let’s put it this way:

Is the championship title really decided by whether or not a driver can successfully bounce a car off a solid concrete barrier?

Michael Schumacher would have likely assembled an entire task force just to help him heave a car over a wall, and then he'd simply hop right over it himself.
Jenson Button was actually trying to coordinate a group of people to help him move his car, but he ended up slipping and taking a nasty fall himself. If he hasn't broken a leg, he certainly managed to go right over the wall.
It’s almost impressive, in a deeply frustrating sort of way. He would throw himself headlong into a wall just trying to force a pass, and then—with complete sincerity—he’d act like the wall was somehow at fault for being in his way.
Sebastian Vettel would have thrown himself against a wall in pure frustration, likely breaking down in tears while apologizing to both the crew and the fans for acting like such an idiot.
Fernando Alonso would probably assemble a whole crew just to scale that wall, though I suspect he’d lose his patience every third or fourth attempt while waiting around, eventually deciding it would be easier to just try and knock the damn thing down.
Felipe Massa would have been weeping in Adrian Newey's arms instead of even attempting to clear that wall.
The rest of them wouldn't even know which way was up, let alone how to tackle a wall—though I suppose Robert Kubica or Nico Rosberg might eventually figure it out.
Rubens Barrichello would have spent all that energy trying to scale the wall, only to realize someone else had already scaled it before him.

.

stormyviper11 said:A minor, albeit slightly outdated, addendum...

Kimi Raikkonen would have probably knocked back a liter of vodka, decided he simply couldn't be bothered with the rest of it, and wandered off to go jump over some walls instead.

Haha, solid post.
Robert Kubica might have hit a wall at some point, but let’s be honest—it felt like nobody was actually willing to lend him a hand to get over it.
It is actually quite an interesting exercise to view the championship from this particular angle. It makes you wonder—if Juan Pablo Montoya hadn't hit something else before making contact with the wall, who exactly would he have pointed the finger at? He’d likely be looking for someone to blame.