GP Germany - 07/25/2010

redheron12 said:Hmm, I doubt we were ever bragging about the car at McLaren—it was always pretty obvious that Red Bull had us beat. We were bragging about our drivers' smart driving, and honestly, today was no exception; the guys pushed it to the absolute limit.

Right now, we are indeed the third car on the grid, but let's not forget that even Ferrari was third—if not worse—during those first few races after they introduced the new diffuser, failing to score a single point in some of them.

Like I said before, during those first couple of races while we wait for the diffuser to settle in properly, it's purely about damage control. Today, we handled that perfectly, and Hamilton actually widened his gap over third place. As for Button, I'm not losing any sleep over him; I wouldn't be any happier or sadder if he took the title.

Ferrari looked incredibly strong today, but I suspect it comes down to the track configuration and the fact that they were over half a second faster than McLaren in the third sector.

We have another tough weekend ahead in Canada. That race will likely be another exercise in damage control—just trying to extract as much data as possible regarding the car and the diffuser. If we execute that well, we shouldn't lose our grip on either championship.

It's a shame Hamilton wrecked the car, and the rain didn't exactly help us when it came to testing the diffuser and dialing in the setup.

It is interesting to note that we were better than Webber today, whereas in the last race, Lewis couldn't even get close to him.

Hardly likely with a Red Bull like that. They certainly gave you guys a show today. But don't forget Felipe's contribution, too.
Gotta give credit where it's due to McLaren. Getting the job done perfectly is what matters most.

redheron12 said:Hmm, I doubt we were ever bragging about the car at McLaren—it was always pretty obvious that Red Bull had us beat. We were bragging about our drivers' smart driving, and honestly, today was no exception; the guys pushed it to the absolute limit.

Right now, we are indeed the third car on the grid, but let's not forget that even Ferrari was third—if not worse—during those first few races after they introduced the new diffuser, failing to score a single point in some of them.

Like I said before, during those first couple of races while we wait for the diffuser to settle in properly, it's purely about damage control. Today, we handled that perfectly, and Hamilton actually widened his gap over third place. As for Button, I'm not losing any sleep over him; I wouldn't be any happier or sadder if he took the title.

Ferrari looked incredibly strong today, but I suspect it comes down to the track configuration and the fact that they were over half a second faster than McLaren in the third sector.

We have another tough weekend ahead in Canada. That race will likely be another exercise in damage control—just trying to extract as much data as possible regarding the car and the diffuser. If we execute that well, we shouldn't lose our grip on either championship.

It's a shame Hamilton wrecked the car, and the rain didn't exactly help us when it came to testing the diffuser and dialing in the setup.

It is interesting to note that we were better than Webber today, whereas in the last race, Lewis couldn't even get close to him.

Webber wasn't quite himself today. Something definitely went sideways there.

hollowgull5 said:Honestly, they might as well just nail qualifying and the start and call it a day, seriously...🤣

You aren't actually far from the truth on that one. 😉

Jesse Williams2 said:Haha... not quite... I've watched basically every race over the last couple of years😁
I don't really get what you mean by that first sentence of yours😕

In recent years, I don’t think you’ve ever truly witnessed how a fast car manages to pull away from the pack, only to then struggle immensely to maintain that gap.
It’s just not happening; he simply cannot find any way to get past the car ahead of him...

So I'm listening to Dr. Schumi, they're asking him about this whole situation with letting Alonso go today 😁

Man, what a character. The way he talks is just pure entertainment; I think I’m actually starting to like him more and more 🤣

And then Schumi says: I understand one hundred percent and I would do exactly the same, because at the end of the day—what are we even here for? It's fighting for The championship. There is only one target, and that is winning the championship.

🙏 🙏 😁 😁

cosmicridge5 said:So I'm listening to Dr. Schumi, they're asking him about this whole situation with letting Alonso go today 😁

Man, what a character. The way he talks is just pure entertainment; I think I’m actually starting to like him more and more 🤣

And then Schumi says: I understand one hundred percent and I would do exactly the same, because at the end of the day—what are we even here for? It's fighting for The championship. There is only one target, and that is winning the championship.

🙏 🙏 😁 😁

Let's not forget, he once let Barrichello go too. 👍

I honestly don't understand how anyone can even attempt to compare Alonso and Massa to those legendary eras at Ferrari..........Schumacher *was* Ferrari. He was the one building the car alongside his mechanics, he was the one putting in the testing hours. Pure, relentless work ethic. Back then, everyone knew exactly who the second driver was and what their role entailed. But compared to how things are run today 🙄......Alonso 🙄

I actually feel a bit sorry for Alonso. Ever since that Michelin era ended, he’s been stuck in this mindset that he’s still some kind of untouchable legend.....

Rebecca Fox4 said:I honestly don't understand how anyone can even attempt to compare Alonso and Massa to those legendary eras at Ferrari..........Schumacher *was* Ferrari. He was the one building the car alongside his mechanics, he was the one putting in the testing hours. Pure, relentless work ethic. Back then, everyone knew exactly who the second driver was and what their role entailed. But compared to how things are run today 🙄......Alonso 🙄

I actually feel a bit sorry for Alonso. Ever since that Michelin era ended, he’s been stuck in this mindset that he’s still some kind of untouchable legend.....

And that pretty much sums up the whole Alonso, Schumacher, and Ferrari dynamic.
Schumacher lived and breathed Ferrari, working seven days a week, twenty-four hours a day. Then this arrogant little brat shows up and suddenly thinks he's "the king of the world". Yeah, right... 🙄

Elizabeth Hughes said:And that pretty much sums up the whole Alonso, Schumacher, and Ferrari dynamic.
Schumacher lived and breathed Ferrari, working seven days a week, twenty-four hours a day. Then this arrogant little brat shows up and suddenly thinks he's "the king of the world". Yeah, right... 🙄

Yeah, that hits the nail right on the head... it’s 90% grind and 10% talent.
The issue with Schumacher is that you can't replicate that today since testing is banned—the guy literally built his entire existence around being in that cockpit.
Look, I'm not against team orders, but there's a massive difference between what happened then and what we saw back in the Austrian GP 2002. Back then, it wasn't forbidden, and I'm pretty sure Ferrari got hit with a million-dollar penalty... so who knows what's coming next. I highly doubt they'll just stop at $100,000.
Honestly, don't hold your breath for anything other than an even steeper fine in US dollars. It feels to me like the penalties handed to Ferrari over the last two races were way too harsh due to circumstances, so now they're probably going to try some "compensation" move.

Btw.... when Massa was at the press conference and asked "what happened?", he really should have just said: "Well, you all saw it... Alonso was simply too fast for me... he's one of the fastest drivers to ever live, if not *the* fastest... I just didn't stand a chance against that kind of pace"
Of course, he’d have to pull that dead-serious face while saying it (you know, the Pervan style).
That would be a massive blow to Alonso's ego... and honestly, he wouldn't even be lying; he'd just be telling him and everyone else the truth.

wiredtiger8 said:Yeah, that hits the nail right on the head... it’s 90% grind and 10% talent.
The issue with Schumacher is that you can't replicate that today since testing is banned—the guy literally built his entire existence around being in that cockpit.
Look, I'm not against team orders, but there's a massive difference between what happened then and what we saw back in the Austrian GP 2002. Back then, it wasn't forbidden, and I'm pretty sure Ferrari got hit with a million-dollar penalty... so who knows what's coming next. I highly doubt they'll just stop at $100,000.
Honestly, don't hold your breath for anything other than an even steeper fine in US dollars. It feels to me like the penalties handed to Ferrari over the last two races were way too harsh due to circumstances, so now they're probably going to try some "compensation" move.

Btw.... when Massa was at the press conference and asked "what happened?", he really should have just said: "Well, you all saw it... Alonso was simply too fast for me... he's one of the fastest drivers to ever live, if not *the* fastest... I just didn't stand a chance against that kind of pace"
Of course, he’d have to pull that dead-serious face while saying it (you know, the Pervan style).
That would be a massive blow to Alonso's ego... and honestly, he wouldn't even be lying; he'd just be telling him and everyone else the truth.

🙏

wiredtiger8 said:Yeah, that hits the nail right on the head... it’s 90% grind and 10% talent.
The issue with Schumacher is that you can't replicate that today since testing is banned—the guy literally built his entire existence around being in that cockpit.
Look, I'm not against team orders, but there's a massive difference between what happened then and what we saw back in the Austrian GP 2002. Back then, it wasn't forbidden, and I'm pretty sure Ferrari got hit with a million-dollar penalty... so who knows what's coming next. I highly doubt they'll just stop at $100,000.
Honestly, don't hold your breath for anything other than an even steeper fine in US dollars. It feels to me like the penalties handed to Ferrari over the last two races were way too harsh due to circumstances, so now they're probably going to try some "compensation" move.

Btw.... when Massa was at the press conference and asked "what happened?", he really should have just said: "Well, you all saw it... Alonso was simply too fast for me... he's one of the fastest drivers to ever live, if not *the* fastest... I just didn't stand a chance against that kind of pace"
Of course, he’d have to pull that dead-serious face while saying it (you know, the Pervan style).
That would be a massive blow to Alonso's ego... and honestly, he wouldn't even be lying; he'd just be telling him and everyone else the truth.

🙏🙏🙏
Straight to the point. 👍

The whole Ferrari vs. Red Bull-McLaren dynamic is pretty interesting to me.

In Turkey, Vettel was clearly faster than Webber, but there was total radio silence. Vettel just pins the throttle—way harder than Alonso was doing behind Massa—creeps up on Webber's rear end, practically swallows him whole, and boom, they collide. (Okay, maybe Vettel went left while Webber went right, but still.)

Then you've got Alonso catching up to Massa and pushing hard, but he can't get past him and eventually gives up. Of course, he’s probably got some cell phone tucked in his suit with an earpiece, so he yells "Montezemolo" into it. He dials a number a few times, but it's busy—probably some old guy rambling away with Charlie.🤷 The phone rings again and finally someone picks up. Alonso says, "Tell Massa I'm faster." A few minutes of silence pass, then they call Massa over the radio to explain what happened and how much slower he actually is compared to Alonso. Alonso really wanted to make sure everyone knew just how fast he was.

Meanwhile, in Turkey, Button was noticeably faster than Hamilton. He catches him and breezes past. Hamilton shouts "Dennis!" into his headset, and the phone rings immediately. Dennis answers instantly, and Hamilton tells him, "Explain to Janson that I'm faster and that he's going to run out of fuel if he doesn't get out of my slipstream." They relay the message to Button over the radio, and Hamilton pulls back ahead.

The point of this story: Vettel, Button, Webber, and Massa desperately need cell phones.🤣
Or maybe we should just ban phones in F1 cars altogether.🤣

stormybadger8 said:The whole Ferrari vs. Red Bull-McLaren dynamic is pretty interesting to me.

In Turkey, Vettel was clearly faster than Webber, but there was total radio silence. Vettel just pins the throttle—way harder than Alonso was doing behind Massa—creeps up on Webber's rear end, practically swallows him whole, and boom, they collide. (Okay, maybe Vettel went left while Webber went right, but still.)

Then you've got Alonso catching up to Massa and pushing hard, but he can't get past him and eventually gives up. Of course, he’s probably got some cell phone tucked in his suit with an earpiece, so he yells "Montezemolo" into it. He dials a number a few times, but it's busy—probably some old guy rambling away with Charlie.🤷 The phone rings again and finally someone picks up. Alonso says, "Tell Massa I'm faster." A few minutes of silence pass, then they call Massa over the radio to explain what happened and how much slower he actually is compared to Alonso. Alonso really wanted to make sure everyone knew just how fast he was.

Meanwhile, in Turkey, Button was noticeably faster than Hamilton. He catches him and breezes past. Hamilton shouts "Dennis!" into his headset, and the phone rings immediately. Dennis answers instantly, and Hamilton tells him, "Explain to Janson that I'm faster and that he's going to run out of fuel if he doesn't get out of my slipstream." They relay the message to Button over the radio, and Hamilton pulls back ahead.

The point of this story: Vettel, Button, Webber, and Massa desperately need cell phones.🤣
Or maybe we should just ban phones in F1 cars altogether.🤣

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7IiR6Mgwyk

Go ahead, watch the clip and tell me—did Button actually miss his chance with Hamilton?

Massa and Alonso were going head-to-head during the first half of the race, and things got incredibly heated.
Even though Alonso had the pace, Massa simply wouldn't let him through.

During the second half, they pivoted to whatever was best for the team and their standing in the championship.

Keep suffering, you Brits. ☕

If you want proof that team orders are actually banned in F1, just look at the list of penalties handed out over the last few seasons.

redheron12 said:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7IiR6Mgwyk

Go ahead, watch the clip and tell me—did Button actually miss his chance with Hamilton?

Of course he let him through, just like how Massa let Alonso by earlier.
It’s pretty obvious if you listen closely—you can hear Hamilton essentially expecting Button NOT to overtake him on track. If that isn't a clear instance of team orders, then I don't know what is. It's like, "Is Button going to pass me? No, he won't." If that's not an order, then we might as well just throw the whole sport away, right?

The only real difference here is that at McLaren, they tend to handle these things quietly and discreetly. Meanwhile, the Ferrari crew has pulled this stunt publicly at least twice now, only to act like nothing even happened afterward.☕

Alonso and Ferrari are basically a pair of gloves that were custom-made just for them...

Looking at everything going down over at Renault and Ferrari lately, I feel like anyone who isn't some die-hard FA fanatic can see exactly what his issue was back at McLaren in 2007... the guy just organically can't stand having equals on his team...

Mark Ruiz8 said:Bravo Ferrari 🙏
They could have handled the release a bit more subtly—not that it matters much. If I were running the team, I’d probably do the exact same thing—tell Mass to let his teammate through if he actually has a shot at the title.
As for the rest of you complaining, I'm curious—how would you handle things if you were actually in charge?

I wouldn't have pulled him into the pits immediately after Alonso. I would've kept him out for another 2 or 3 laps just long enough for Alonso to pass through the pit lane, allowing him to maintain his position ahead of Vettel. It just required taking a tiny bit of a risk, which was totally doable given the gap to Vettel was large enough.

Only amateurs would talk like this.

This is just more proof that the entire damn pit wall deserves to be fired... including that idiot Bob who actually had the nerve to say sorry. Honestly, if you want me to make it any clearer: FIRE THEM. ALL OF THEM. 😠

Betty Moore34 said:And why on earth wouldn't Massa have a chance in this race? The man finally delivered a legitimate result during qualifying, so why shouldn't he go after Alonso?
Don't let Massa catch you off guard today.😉

Betty Moore34 said:If Alonso suffers even a slightly subpar start, Massa absolutely needs to make his move immediately rather than just sitting there waiting around, which would only hand an opening straight to Webber. We’ll see how things shake out in the end, though I personally want to see Massa prove he actually has some tactical grit in him.

Joshua Newman2 said:Exactly...

Unlike at Red Bull or McLaren, where the hierarchy between drivers feels like a complete mystery, things work differently over at Ferrari. If Massino were to attempt an overtake on Alonso, it would likely be viewed as nothing short of an act of aggression. I highly doubt he’d even dare to try it, unless Alonso was clearly struggling with his car.

To touch on that point: anyone who has followed F1 since the days when Schumacher ran Ferrari won't be surprised that Massa had to step aside for Alonso yesterday. I’m not saying it’s right or smart; it’s just how they've always operated. No matter how much I criticize Red Bull for their inability to manage a team and throwing away points, I'll always respect them more than teams that don't even pretend to be sporting.

On another note—how are people (especially the folks over at stormybadger8) reacting to Vettel's start and him shoving Alonso into the wall? There are way too many pages to sift through, but if Webber had done that, he would have been branded a lunatic attempting to murder a colleague. I just hope the kid doesn't get a better pass, despite his habit of smoking.😁

Elizabeth Hughes said:And that pretty much sums up the whole Alonso, Schumacher, and Ferrari dynamic.
Schumacher lived and breathed Ferrari, working seven days a week, twenty-four hours a day. Then this arrogant little brat shows up and suddenly thinks he's "the king of the world". Yeah, right... 🙄

😁

Things like this always manage to brighten my mood. You forgot to mention that his luckiest years were back when he was still a kid and actually had an extra day in the week just to work on car development 😛

As for Alonso, I'm right there with you.🙈

Joshua Newman2 said:To touch on that point: anyone who has followed F1 since the days when Schumacher ran Ferrari won't be surprised that Massa had to step aside for Alonso yesterday. I’m not saying it’s right or smart; it’s just how they've always operated. No matter how much I criticize Red Bull for their inability to manage a team and throwing away points, I'll always respect them more than teams that don't even pretend to be sporting.

On another note—how are people (especially the folks over at stormybadger8) reacting to Vettel's start and him shoving Alonso into the wall? There are way too many pages to sift through, but if Webber had done that, he would have been branded a lunatic attempting to murder a colleague. I just hope the kid doesn't get a better pass, despite his habit of smoking.😁

He left him plenty of room to get through.

The mistake was staying focused on Alonso instead of immediately moving to shut the door on Massa.