Are doctors more prone to "negative careerism"?

I’m not really going to dive too deep into this argument because, honestly, it feels like a dead end. I’m pretty convinced nobody is walking away from this conversation feeling any wiser or more mature than when we started.

As for my education... look, I don't really feel like getting into the weeds here. I've been through the grind—I graduated, and now I'm actually juggling three different degrees at once. So, I think I can make some fair comparisons. And trust me, there are programs out there just as tough, if not way tougher, to get into than medical school. Finishing college—any degree, really—is something almost anyone can do if they just have enough grit. But if you're looking for special treatment at a big bank like JPMorgan Chase by playing the victim... well, there are definitely easier ways to go about that than spending years in med school.

I haven't noticed any fundamental difference in how doctors carry themselves compared to the rest of the citizenry; they aren't inherently different from a bus driver or a university professor. It’s simply a matter of stakes—since everyone's health is on the line, a doctor's negative traits tend to stick in our minds far longer than, say, a bank teller or a technician repairing a washing machine.

In my estimation, medicine is an incredibly demanding field of study involving immense responsibility, yet it remains an underpaid profession within the public healthcare system.

Regarding social standing, physicians and judges occupy highly respected positions in virtually every society; in America, that level of deference might even slightly exceed what you'd see in the USA.

Lawrence Robinson11 said:Right, and who else deserves the exact same title? A Bachelor’s in Engineering? I don't know, maybe once he finishes his PhD he can jump ahead of me in line at Chase Bank.

I didn't say that, but I definitely wasn't the one saying we shouldn't even argue about it...

And yeah, studying for six years is way harder than doing four. I guess it's just not clicking for you guys somehow.

4 + 2 = 6 ...

Architecture is nine semesters, not eight.😎

If you're gonna try so hard to be right, maybe actually look something up first.

Lawrence Robinson11 said:Yeah, right—and who else deserves to skip the line? An engineer? I don't know, maybe once he finishes his PhD he can take my spot in line at Chase Bank.

My final word to this absolute child:

Do you seriously think getting an MD after med school is the same thing as earning a PhD? Because they aren't even in the same league...

Good grief...

And yeah, among those "others" I mentioned in my post about how I feel about doctors, there are definitely people who think their medical degree gives them some kind of VIP pass to cut the line at the bank.

Lawrence Robinson11 said:Right, and who else deserves the same status? An engineer? I don't know, once he finishes his PhD, maybe he can cut in front of me at the bank next.

A medical doctor is a profession, whereas a PhD is an academic title. You simply cannot compare the two...

Casey Palmer5 said:And if you're looking for special treatment at the bank and want to play the victim... well, there are definitely easier ways to go about that than spending years in medical school.

If this was aimed at me, I think you might have the wrong person, because I was really just responding to the comments about doctors getting better service at the bank. I don't personally need any favors, but I guess it's just sad if anyone finds that frustrating. Still, this constant bashing of the profession really gets to me, because I chose to go to MIT for med school specifically because I wanted to help people. I actually had much more lucrative offers out there, both financially and in terms of stress levels. But no, people just insist on making statements like, "only 10% of doctors actually care about helping people" or that "only 10% think they provide more value to society."

I mean, who is actually to blame here? Is it the system? If a physician has a higher level of education than someone else, then, I suppose, they are treated better in certain contexts. It's kind of like how an athlete might be treated differently in other scenarios, too.

But all this frustration...
And honestly, those comments suggesting that general practitioners are just glorified scribes were truly quite rude.

Frustrated? Honestly, I don't have a single reason in my life to feel frustrated. I love my career, my personal life is great, and everything is just where it should be.

Discriminating against someone based on their education level is actually unconstitutional.
If I’m being honest, looking at your posts, it feels like you’d definitely give preferential treatment to people with advanced degrees just because that's your norm.

I treat everyone exactly the same, whether they're working a blue-collar job or they're a professor at MIT.
And I haven't disparaged doctors in a single one of my posts. I work alongside doctors every day, and frankly, most of them are huge personalities who are way more down-to-earth than you are...

The way you described them in the opening post is spot on—they’re the quintessential "superstudent" type, acting like they've got all the answers.
There’s just this massive ego at play here, along with this weird need to act like they’re somehow more essential to society than everyone else. And honestly, that whole "it's six years instead of four" thing? It’s such an obvious giveaway of how much they think they're special.
Like someone mentioned earlier, there's really no point wasting your breath arguing with an intellectual lightweight who tries to build their entire sense of self-worth around the fact that their degree takes "six years instead of four." It’s just nonsense, and it indirectly insults every other profession by pretending those extra years make them superior, when in reality, choosing a longer program is just a personal choice that nobody forced them into.
Unfortunately, sitting in a classroom for more years doesn't automatically make you more important, and it definitely doesn't make you smarter. If that were true, I’d be seeing it every day, but instead, I see plenty of totally chill, down-to-earth doctors, mixed in with way too many people living by that "six vs four" mantra, acting like they're doing us a huge favor just by showing up to work—especially since, compared to most government jobs, they're usually the best-paid people in the room anyway.
So, look, sweetie, you might learn all about ileus and bronchospasms, but don't expect it to actually make you any sharper. 👎

Scott Allen10 said:The description in that opening post is just spot on. It perfectly captures that typical "know-it-all student" type who spends all their time trying to sell everyone else on their own brilliant ideas.
There’s just so much pretension in the air lately. It’s honestly exhausting. Everyone seems to be overplaying their hand, acting like they're somehow more vital to society than the next person. And I mean, let’s be real—that whole "I'm such a big deal because I'm in medical school" thing? It’s so incredibly transparent. It’s just... yeah, it's quite obvious.

I suppose I’m just glad I managed to confirm what I already pretty much thought about doctors in the first place... turns out my intuition was spot on.
I mean, look, doctors are definitely something special, aren't they? I don't know... why does everything surrounding them have to be such a massive mystery? Not that I'm suggesting they're somehow above the law or anything, but there’s just something about it. I guess I just wonder why it all feels so guarded.
Honestly, I feel like you all are just way more bothered by doctors holding a higher status in society than you actually think they deserve. It seems like you’d much rather see them dragged down to the absolute bottom.

As someone pointed out earlier, there is honestly no point in wasting your breath arguing with an intellectual lightweight. You know the type—someone who tries to manufacture their own sense of "importance" by constantly whining about how they did six years of school instead of four. It’s just nonsense. They use that as a way to indirectly belittle everyone else's career paths, completely ignoring the fact that choosing a six-year track over a four-year one was a personal choice. Nobody forced them into it, I guess. Maybe they just wanted the extra credits, but using it to look down on others is just silly.
It’s a sad reality, I guess, that just because you spend more years in school doesn't mean you're actually getting any smarter or that your work becomes more "important." Honestly, if it weren't for the fact that I see the truth of this every single day, I might actually believe otherwise. I see plenty of brilliant, totally normal doctors out there, sure, but then you run into so many others who just aim for the bare minimum—doing just enough to get by. They seem to think they're doing us a massive favor just by showing up and performing the basic tasks they were trained for, all while being some of the highest-paid professionals in the country compared to almost any other government sector or public service. It's a bit much, isn't it? Maybe it's just how things are now.

Sure, they get paid the most because they’re the most educated. Bravo. But I guess you actually think education shouldn't have anything to do with someone's salary...!

Look, honey, you might actually learn what an ileus or a bronchospasm is from this, but I highly doubt it’s going to make you any smarter. Maybe it will, I guess, but probably not.👎

Well, I really hope I'm wrong about this, but honestly? You might just find yourself coming back to someone like me one day. Maybe. It’s a bit of a wild thought, I guess, but you never know.

brightmarlin44 said:By "negative careerism," I suppose I mean this massive ego, this intense self-consciousness, and this tendency to exaggerate one's own importance in society—this idea that they are somehow "special"? I mean, where does this notion come from that medical school is somehow harder to finish than, say, architecture or mechanical engineering?? I actually heard a med student recently mention how she plans to work in a role where she won't even have to touch a patient "because that's what nurses are there for"??😲
Well, I really wonder where this attitude comes from among doctors (both the future ones and those already practicing).
Take, for instance, the case of a politician who was an endocrinologist (which is a subspecialty you reach after internal medicine, which itself follows finishing medical school, all through years of hard work, studying, and training)... he switches to politics and then opens up a construction firm??😕 I mean, maybe if someone just finished their undergrad, I could see it, but moving into something completely different like construction right after completing a subspecialty???? Or look at the guy who used to be a director of a community health clinic and now he's a politician... there are honestly so many of them... at least ten in US Congress right now, and they don't seem interested in ever returning to their profession despite everything they invested in it😬 , so I ask, can politics really be a substitute for a field characterized primarily by humanity and service to an individual (the patient), when politics is quite the exact opposite?

But you, you've totally missed the point.
A doctor who jumps into politics is a bad doctor, a bad father, and a bad politician.🤣
That idiot endocrinologist you're talking about had no right to switch to politics in the first place; he thinks he's Superman just because he believes he can be a politician without ever having studied to be a professional politician...

Doctors in general tend to trade medicine for the complete opposite—dirty politics—simply because they are subpar, arrogant, or vain... basically, let's just get rid of doctors.

Lawrence Robinson11 said:Man, you better hope that's not true, because one day you're gonna realize you actually need a bunch of people like me around.

🤣
so you really think you're gonna find a job if you don't even have basic communication skills?
lol, thank god being able to fix a fax machine isn't enough to get you hired on the spot.

and what's with the threat?
we don't depend on anyone, especially not you or whatever crowd you run with.
if I don't like my doctor, I just find a new one.😈

Hannah Davis18 said:🤣
Do you honestly think you'll even land a job if you lack basic communication skills?
Ha! Thank goodness it's not enough to just know how to operate a fax machine to get hired on the spot.

And why the threat?
We don't rely on anyone, especially not you or people like you.
If I don't like my doctor, I just switch to a different one.😈

Right, because apparently, all you need to snag a job or a specialized residency is just to shell out a mountain of cash. So, thank God my "lack" of social graces won't stand in my way...

A threat?

I have no idea where you saw a threat there; I was just stating a fact, I guess.

It's just a lucky coincidence that the healthcare system is so wonderful that you can swap doctors as easily as changing socks... I don't see the issue. I mean, why would anyone even bother seeing an arrogant, terrible doctor in the first place?

Can I just say—and please tell me I'm not crazy—that I am genuinely hoping Lawrence Robinson11 is just trolling at this point? Or maybe they're some kind of weird clone...

Jose Miller3 said:Can I just say out loud that I really hope Lawrence Robinson11 is just messing with us? Or maybe he’s some kind of clone...

You can, Joe Biden.
Look, I'm giving you the green light.

Lawrence Robinson11 said:yeah, basically you just gotta cough up a mountain of cash to land a job or a residency, so thank god my lack of communication skills won't get in the way...
is that a threat?
i don't see where there's a threat, i was just stating a fact.
lucky for you the healthcare situation is so great that you swap doctors out like socks... i don't get what the issue is.. why would anyone even bother seeing shitty, arrogant doctors in the first place?

i didn't even say that, about swapping doctors constantly. i mean, i switch if i'm not happy with them.
but lucky for me, i rarely run into people with that much ego, arrogance, and pure stupidity, so maybe for you i'm not some future specialist with a fat wallet, but just some failed med student.😎

Hannah Davis18 said:I never actually said I swap doctors like I change my socks. I just meant if I'm unhappy with one, I move on.
But honestly, thank goodness I rarely run into this much arrogance and sheer ignorance. It seems you view me not as someone who might eventually become a specialist with a massive bank account, but more like some failed medical student.😎

Let me say it one more time: I truly feel for you if you think I'm just some failed medical student, because sooner or later, you’re going to be relying on people like me.

Anyway, stay healthy for now.

Hannah Davis18 said:illiteracy

So, I guess the first requirement for writing prescriptions or recipes is officially checked off!

jadesailor14 said:So, I guess the first requirement for writing prescriptions and recipes has been met.

Look at me, look at me! Just how many patients do I have lined up today? *happily rubs hands together*

Lawrence Robinson11 said:seriously though, I actually feel bad for you if I’m just some failed med student, because sooner or later, you're gonna be stuck needing people like me.
anyway, enjoy being healthy while it lasts.

yeah, right. back at ya.
guess you're also stuck depending on folks just like yourself.😛

Hannah Davis18 said:sending those good vibes right back at you!
after all, we really do rely on people just like us.😛

Man, we really
😈