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Troy

Started by Kevin King52 · · 👁 14 views · 263 replies

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Participants Kevin King52Michael MitchellChloe Bennettrestlesslynxcopperridge912northerntrucker2casualotter21Chloe Palmer2mellowbear64mistyfox812Betty Gonzalez30Richard Hernandez13fadedsailor932rapidstag74Christian Cox58Henry Anderson47lonemarlin40Nancy Price46graniteotter4Patrick Evanssilentpilot6Donna Nelson23Douglas Phillips4Jonathan Palmer …
Kimberly Gomez28 Kimberly Gomez28 Member
23 messages
joined Mar 2007
#81 ·
I watched it yesterday and honestly, I don't even feel like writing much, so I'll just say I'm totally on board with what silentpilot6 said. Well, except for that little part where he was rambling about adult movies. Actually, looking back, even there, I agree.

I had a blast at the theater! It was such good entertainment, though I have to admit, Pitt completely outshone everyone else by playing Achilles as this narcissistic, delusional quarterback prima donna type 😬

I think I gave up on going to the cinema a long time ago. I just can't deal with paying for tickets and snacks only to walk out of a dark theater two hours later hunting for historical inaccuracies, moronic dialogue, or a total lack of soul in the film. These days, I've become one of those positive people who, if they go to the movies—and I actually go quite often—comes home feeling genuinely happy.

Can't wait for the day after tomorrow! 👏
Steven Ruiz Steven Ruiz Active Member
156 messages
joined Sep 2004
#82 ·
I totally forgot to mention that Saffron Burrows is actually my neighbor—you know, that gorgeous actress who plays Hector's wife—and she happens to be a lesbian. She lives with that other actress, Fiona Shaw... who, if I'm being honest, isn't really my type at all...
I’m definitely going to try and catch her off guard the next time I run into her on the street... maybe she'll take an interest in me! I mean, what have I got to lose...? She's stunning, wealthy, and famous, after all. Someone like her might just convince me to rethink my entire lifestyle...😁 🙏
Richard Hernandez13 Richard Hernandez13 Regular
269 messages
joined May 2004
#83 ·
Steven Ruiz said:I totally forgot to mention that Saffron Burrows is actually my neighbor (she's that actress who plays Hector's wife) and she's a lesbian. She lives with that other actress, Fiona Shaw... who, if I'm being honest, isn't really my type visually...

Oof, well, that certainly sheds a whole new light on the entire movie. 😬
Now I'm wondering if I should go back and watch it all over again?
casualotter21 casualotter21 Regular
264 messages
joined Feb 2003
#84 ·
Steven Ruiz said:I completely forgot to mention that Saffron Burrows is my neighbor—she's the actress who plays Hector's wife—and she's a lesbian. She lives with that other actress, Fiona Shaw.

Fiona Shaw post PROOF OR RETRACT!!!!11111ONE
coastalangler62 coastalangler62 Newcomer
3 messages
joined Jun 2004
#85 ·
Joining the conversation here. To start:
The movie is excellent. 👍

coastalangler62 🙂
FJBG
Carol Wilson14 Carol Wilson14 Member
22 messages
joined Apr 2004
#86 ·
Honestly, this movie was absolute garbage... Consider this your official warning to stay far away from the theater.... To quote my favorite critic:
“Someone already pointed out that if Homer were still around today, he’d be filing a massive lawsuit against the writers of Troy; they took the epic storytelling and just butchered it, turning what should have been a grand tale into this mindless, blood-soaked action spectacle that's handled so poorly even Brad Pitt looks a little uncomfortable in it.”
It was truly awful.....
🙂
briskjackal5 briskjackal5 Active Member
249 messages
joined Feb 2018
#87 ·
Richard Hernandez13 said:The very first thing that popped into my head the second I walked out of the theater was just... wow. I mean, seriously, Peter Jackson is GOD !!!!


Man, whenever I hear this kind of blind worship going on, I just know exactly where this is headed...



<snip>

I guess most of the "historical" research out there for... Troy I mean, I guess it all just boils down to watching the LOTR trilogy. Seriously, there isn't a single thing in that movie that hasn't been touched or borrowed from Jackson's films. What's so glaringly missing from Petersen's work is exactly what he couldn't just copy-paste from LOTR: that true vision, the willingness to take risks, and just pure, raw passion!

Hey, Bejzikli! Troy I mean, seriously... you've got this absolute powerhouse cast, right? Like, top-tier, A-list talent that belongs on every awards podium. And the production value? Totally incredible—everything looks absolutely stunning on screen. But then... the script. Man, the script is just third-rate. It’s like they had all these amazing pieces but couldn't quite put them together. I guess it's just one of those cases where a great look can't quite save a weak story, maybe. Such a bummer!
The very first thing that hits you—and I mean really hits you—is the dialogue. It is just... man, it is CATASTROPHIC!!! Like, seriously, what were they thinking? Who actually sat down and wrote this stuff? Was it R. A. Salvatore? Robert Jordan? Or maybe even Danielle Steel? I honestly feel like it has to be some super ambitious but painfully untalented fantasy writer who has spent their entire life reading nothing but R. A. Salvatore, Robert Jordan, and Danielle Steel. I was just sitting there, basically waiting for the moment when Paris would turn to Helen and say... Hey! So, I was just sitting here thinking... baby! Seriously, isn't that just the cutest thing ever? I don't know, maybe I'm just being silly, but there's just something about it, you know? It’s like, wow! Just... baby! Anyway, just wanted to share that little thought with you all. Hope everyone is having an awesome day!.


I mean, honestly, all the characters in the movie feel just so... I don't know, incredibly obvious? They’re all super clear-cut and very, very specific, which I guess makes them feel really well-known right off the bat. Because they're so defined like that, it feels totally natural that certain parts of the story seem kind of "predictable" to you, you know? And maybe that's exactly why they don't feel all that convincing or immersive. Just my two cents!
On the flip side, I mean, all the other characters are just as incredibly strong and they’re so well-defined—and honestly, the acting is top-tier—all because of those dialogues. It's really that good!



Alright, look. I’ve heard people saying that dialogue is basically the least important part of any Hollywood blockbuster. And honestly? I get where they're coming from. But then you look at those big action sequences... man, some of them are just a total letdown. They end up looking like a soggy, half-baked dream for anyone actually hoping for something epic. It's just kind of underwhelming, I guess! American GladiatorI mean, I can't exactly say I walked away from this without learning some major history lessons, you know? Thanks to the movie, I finally figured out that back in the ancient world, you'd have two massive armies—like, fifty thousand soldiers each—just charging at one another, hacking away for a bit, and then suddenly they’d just... stop. They'd just stand there and start circling around some incredibly important guy. It's wild! Man-to-man. So, looking at those clashes... you've got Hector versus Ajax, and then that whole messy situation where Hector goes up against Patroclus—who, let’s be honest, he totally mistook for Achilles for a second there. I mean, jeez, they both probably go to the exact same barber! 😁 ).


Honestly, my absolute favorite thing about those "critiques" from people who clearly don't have a clue? It’s when they single out one tiny little detail like they're making a profound point, only to totally trip over their own feet and score an absolute massive self-goal. It’s just so funny!

The whole key to these battles—and honestly, the entire Trojan War—is the one-on-one, mano a mano combat. It really just boils down to that, I guess!
I mean, it’s just not like a regular hand-to-hand brawl, you know? It’s never just two people fighting fairly. There's always some Ares or Aphrodite swooping in out of nowhere to bail out their favorite person!
I mean, if you look at the mythology, those circles around the really important warriors are definitely intentional. It’s like... they were actually drawn there! I guess since they didn't have any other way to show it, the gods probably wouldn't have allowed some mere mortals to mess up their grand plans right when things were getting intense for those fighters. It just makes sense, maybe?



I won't beat around the bush—the battles are just like the rest of the movie... honestly, they feel totally lifeless and pretty boring to me.


I honestly think the battles in Troy are probably some of the best mass combat scenes ever put on film. Like, seriously, maybe even the best there is!
As far as I know, anyway—but hey, please feel free to set me straight if you can think of any movies where they actually pulled it off better!



Man, when the characters were just talking—I was practically counting the seconds until the action started. But then, once the action actually kicked off? I was just sitting there waiting for them to stop yapping!

…
And honestly, maybe the whole thing wouldn't have been such a headache if the cast hadn't almost entirely flopped (like, seriously, looking at 🙂 Brian Cox, Brendan Gleeson, and Eric Bana).


The acting was actually totally great across the board.
Do you even realize who those characters were supposed to be?



I say "almost entirely" because you've got Peter O'Toole there, who basically outshines everyone by a mile. I guess you really do need like sixty years of acting experience to deliver that terrible dialogue in such a phenomenal way.

The absolute worst part, no contest, has to be Brad Pitt. I mean, look, I like him as an actor and he’s definitely got talent, but who on earth told him that portraying Achilles should look like some narcissistic, prima donna quarterback?


That guy has been the ultimate alpha male for thousands of years.
Just try to imagine a man like that, coming from that kind of environment.

At least give it a shot.

- briskjackal5 -
Richard Hernandez13 Richard Hernandez13 Regular
269 messages
joined May 2004
#88 ·
briskjackal5 said:It’s not just about simple hand-to-hand combat; there’s always some Ares or Aphrodite swooping in from the sidelines to bail out their favorite fighter.
Even looking at the original mythology, you see these circles forming around the major warriors. It was basically because the gods wouldn't let mortals ruin their big plans right when things were getting interesting.

Did you actually see any gods show up in the movie?

I didn't catch any, mostly because the film was scrubbed completely clean of them. Petersen mentioned they toyed with the idea of including them, but they felt it would have looked pretty ridiculous.

That’s really the core issue with
Troy. They just modernized it too much.
slylynx16 slylynx16 Member
22 messages
joined Jun 2005
#89 ·
I think it might be. Cleaned up. I'm here. Ready when you are. Reading experts. Benioff’s attempt to weave Virgil's Aeneid into his version of Homer's work—while ignoring what countless historians have noted about this 3,000-year-old myth—is quite a massive oversight. 🙄 One really should have considered whether it was better to just have a solid epic film—which Troy undoubtedly was. Yes.Should we just wait years for some supposedly "genius adaptation"? Or what?

If a brilliant version hasn't surfaced by now, it probably never will.

So just relax and enjoy Petersen's film!

By the way, it's pretty obvious that when people criticize Brad Pitt, they aren't actually tearing apart his portrayal of Achilles as much as they're reacting to the fact that he pocketed an insane $17.5 million for the role.

He knows how to play the "little guy," doesn't he? 🙂
Henry Anderson47 Henry Anderson47 Active Member
94 messages
joined Aug 2004
#90 ·
I watched Troy last night, and despite my negative mindset going in—I was honestly ready to tear it apart—I’m actually kind of blown away.

The movie has its fair share of plot holes here and there, and I doubt it'll be the "film of the year," but I think it’s almost better than Gladiator or even Return of the King, which is the third part of LOTR, and let me be clear, I am a huge LOTR fan.
I don't want to get into a whole debate about Peter Jackson's work or whatever, like how much money was spent or all that; the digital effects were super obvious in his stuff, but they aren't as glaringly so here, which I think is a plus for Troy.
It might not be the greatest film ever made on this planet, but when I watched Troy, I felt genuinely thrilled, whereas watching Return... I just didn't feel that way.

I won't get into whether Homer's texts are accurate because we tried that with Passion and it didn't lead anywhere, so I guess you need some "artistic poetic license" in the interpretation, though I felt the presentation here was perhaps a bit too modernized, and maybe I just miss that archaic feel.

I really can't agree with anyone saying the cast didn't do an amazing job; some people were incredibly convincing, including Brad Pitt, whom some people for no reason just don't like. I mean, so what if he's a great piece of work as well as being a very good actor? Since when was that a bad thing?

The choreography is phenomenal. And I know it sounds silly, but movies like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon and Musa had similar styles and nobody trashed them for it. If you liked that style, you'll like it in Troy.

If you haven't realized what that means yet, then (hopefully) 👍 👍👍
and I honestly don't care that Richard Hernandez13 hated it.😉

Like Kimberly Gomez28 says:

I think I gave up a long time ago on going to the theater, paying for tickets and snacks, just to walk out of a dark room after two or three hours looking for historical errors, stupid dialogue, or a lack of soul in the movie. These days, I'm more of a positive person; if I go to the movies—and I go pretty often—I want to come home feeling satisfied.
Kevin King52 Kevin King52 MemberOP
15 messages
joined Jul 2004
#91 ·
Alright, let's say the movie is fun, right? It’s got a star-studded cast, the fight scenes are shot beautifully, and all that. All in all, it’s a solid action spectacle you can sit through.

But here’s the real kicker: why on earth did they need to call it Troy and base it on the Iliad? They could have just hired a screenwriter to whip up an original script about some massive historical battle—or better yet, a totally made-up one.

An original flick like that would still have had the same actors, the same director, and the exact same visual style... basically, it would be just as watchable.
The only difference is that movie wouldn't have the name attached to it, meaning it wouldn't line the pockets of those Hollywood producers quite as heavily.

Bercana said:...
Americans should be legally banned from making historical stuff that has absolutely zero connection to our own landscape.
And I mean, definitely.

I am 100% with you on that.
cosmictrucker132 cosmictrucker132 Member
27 messages
joined Apr 2004
#92 ·
slylynx16 said:You should consider whether it's better to have a solid epic movie—which Troy undoubtedly is!

Yeah, right... it's neither good nor epic.

It's just an average action flick with hollow dialogue.

The only redeeming quality is how brutal the combat is shown.

But hey, to each their own... let's not go there... I'll just say that for people who, like you, are familiar ( 🙂 ) with Greek mythology... this movie is utterly pointless.
silentpilot6 silentpilot6 Regular
295 messages
joined Sep 2004
#93 ·
It seems to me that the biggest complaint from those who dismiss these films is the lack of mythology—or rather, its total absence.

For me, that is exactly the issue.👍
Douglas Phillips4 Douglas Phillips4 Active Member
70 messages
joined Apr 2003
#94 ·
Haha, well, not for everyone. Personally, I find it quite intriguing—seeing how these myths were portrayed as things that could actually have originated, long before people started claiming an elephant evolved from a puff of smoke 👍

Regardless, my overall impression on a scale of 1-5 lands somewhere around a 2 🤔
Carol Wilson14 Carol Wilson14 Member
22 messages
joined Apr 2004
#95 ·
So what if Achilles was actually gay and was hooking up with Patroclus????? And then you jump right into the first scene with two naked chicks in bed, just wow... 👎
Douglas Phillips4 Douglas Phillips4 Active Member
70 messages
joined Apr 2003
#96 ·
I mean, come on, surely he didn't lose his mind over Patroclus's death just because his cousin 😬
was such a little 😂
.
briskjackal5 briskjackal5 Active Member
249 messages
joined Feb 2018
#97 ·
cosmictrucker132 said:Nah... it's not good... and it's not epic either.

It's just some average action flick with totally empty dialogue.


Total bullshit, honestly... this is probably one of the dumbest complaints I've ever heard about this movie.
I mean, I can't think of a SINGLE other film that has characters this strong and clear—it showed through everything they did and everything they said!

Just because you already KNEW what everyone was likely going to say since you're familiar with the story, doesn't automatically make them "empty." That's just, I don't know, a bit unfair, right?

Btw, calling it an "average action film"?
What else would you call "average" when it comes to action movies? Give me some examples!


The only upside is how brutal the combat looks.

But hey, to each their own... I won't go there... I just want to say that there are plenty of people out there who, just like you, are really into American mythology... and to them, this movie is just... meh.
🙂

I know my way around American mythology pretty well myself.
And for me, the movie was awesome.

- briskjackal5 -
Douglas Phillips4 Douglas Phillips4 Active Member
70 messages
joined Apr 2003
#98 ·
briskjackal5 said:Total nonsense. This is probably one of the most ridiculous complaints anyone has ever leveled at this movie.
I can't think of a SINGLE film with characters this vivid and well-defined, both in their actions and their dialogue. [/B]

Well, to each their own. Personally, I found the characters thin, hollow, and frankly uninteresting. None of them were properly developed because there simply wasn't enough time—everything just revolved around Achilles. You catch a glimpse of some character growth toward the end of the films, maybe with the king or Odysseus (who you don't even know the name of for three-quarters of the movie 😕), but the vast majority? Zero points. That includes Achilles' closest friends and allies, who barely get five seconds of screen time. They're supposed to be great warriors, and without them, the Greeks couldn't launch an attack—but why should we care about them if we haven't even met them? The issue is that by then, it was too late to weave these mythological figures into the plot. It’s such a slog that I wouldn't watch 🙄 again just to try and fix that impression.
silentpilot6 silentpilot6 Regular
295 messages
joined Sep 2004
#99 ·
It’s impossible to just pick and choose what works. If they had given every single character the attention they actually deserved, we would have walked into the theater on Thursday and wouldn't have left until tomorrow afternoon.

Why wasn't Achilles portrayed as gay? What's your take on that?
The movie clearly wasn't made specifically for the hardcore American fans. 😁

That said, from start to finish, the film was genuinely fun. I loved the characters, and while the dialogue isn't exactly Oscar-worthy, I've seen countless movies with much worse writing. The music and atmosphere were 👍, the battles and set design were 🙏, and the songs were 🙏 🙏

What more could I possibly ask for from a movie?
Like I mentioned before: when I want deep entertainment, heavy thinking, or to discover some "great life truths," I pick up a book. I go to the cinema to have a good time—and with Troy, I certainly had a blast. 🙂
Carol Wilson14 Carol Wilson14 Member
22 messages
joined Apr 2004
#100 ·
If they actually gave every single character in this movie the screen time they "deserved," we probably wouldn't have left the theater until sometime tomorrow afternoon.

I mean, we could've just sat through Lord of the Rings during the break between 16th Meridian and Sport today instead of catching the market report, but we didn't...

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