Troy

briskjackal5 said:That’s total nonsense. This is probably one of the dumbest complaints about this movie.

If not the absolute dumbest...
Just my take on the film... don't start a flame war.

...and I already said... we aren't debating tastes here.🙂

briskjackal5 said:I can't think of a SINGLE movie with characters this strong and clear, both in their actions and their dialogue.

I know plenty... at least twenty...
And no, I'm not listing them.

By the way, Thurgood Marshall wrote a great analysis of the characters.👍
...the narrator, Odysseus... portrayed as some coward avoiding the fight... blah blah...

briskjackal5 said:By the way, "average action movie"?
What else would you call an "average" action movie?

Well, for instance... even something similar to "Gladiator" (a waste of time... though Gladiator is just hardcore trash... Troy is a much better film... but that's essentially it)...

The rest... movies like "big crowd in little Tokyo," "American Ninja IV," and other "average action movies"
...designed just to make money through decent action... just my perspective, hopefully...

briskjackal5 said:I am very well acquainted with Greek mythology.
The movie is excellent.

Don't get me wrong... but I'm genuinely surprised by how fascinated you are with such a commercialized, cliché presentation of the same story.🙂

silentpilot6 said:It seems to me that the biggest complaint from people bashing the movie is the lack of mythology—actually, its total absence.

For me, that’s exactly it.👍

I guess both aspects would work for me. In this case, since it isn't mythological, I honestly wouldn't mind if it wasn't called Troy at all and just used some other original script.

By pure chance, I only ever dealt with Greek mythology back in school, and I only remember bits and pieces (which probably doesn't help my case much🙂), so the accuracy of the story isn't really a big deal to me.
If it weren't for the connection, maybe the movie wouldn't have been quite as good.

I think arguing about things like the budget and comparing it to other films is pretty pointless when you know a huge chunk was basically swallowed up by actor salaries (specifically BP). Return of the King didn't have any actors that expensive, so there wasn't nearly as much money to burn there, and it was similar with Gladiator.

Now, someone might say, "See, you can make a better movie with a cheaper crew," but that’s not really the point. Someone wanted BP in the lead role, and they had to pay him. BP did exactly what he needed to do, so I don't see much point in doing a financial audit here.

Whether he should have been there or not is kind of irrelevant to the overall impression of whether the film is actually good. 😉

Thurgood Marshall said:Well, I guess it depends on who you ask. For me, the characters just felt... I don't know, unfinished? Kind of hollow and uninteresting. I feel like none of them were really fleshed out because there just wasn't enough time—everything was just revolving around Achilles. You maybe get a tiny hint of some actual character development toward the very end of the movies, like with the King or Odysseus (though honestly, for like 3/4 of the films, you don't even know his name 😕).

I totally agree about Odysseus, but the King? Man, I don't know. To me, he was one of the strongest characters there! He was a king from the very first scene right until the very end.
You clearly haven't been watching 😉

If I had to pick, I'd say Paris and Hector were actually developed the right way.

- briskjackal5 -

cosmictrucker132 said:so, like... even if you take something almost identical... "Gladiator" (which was honestly such a waste of my time... I mean, it's just hardcore junk... "Troy" is way better, though... but yeah, that's basically it)...

and then there's other stuff... movies like "big crowd in little Tokyo," "American Ninja IV," and those kinds of "mediocre action flicks"
...that are mostly aimed at making money because the action is decent... anyway, that's just my take on it, I guess...

Don't get me wrong... but I'm honestly just kind of baffled by how much you seem to love this whole commercialized, cliché way of presenting the same 🙂

Look, I'm not obsessed with the movie as some grand retelling of myth, I just look at the movie as a movie. I mean, when you're doing adaptations, compromises are pretty much inevitable either way, right?

And as for what you said about "mediocre action films"... bringing up "big crowd in little Tokyo" and "American Ninja" out of nowhere was just totally random, and honestly, you probably shouldn't have even mentioned them 😉

- briskjackal5 -

briskjackal5 said:I’m with you on Odysseus, but the King? He was a powerhouse from start to finish. He earned that title.
You clearly haven't watched 😉
.
Personally, I think Paris and Hector were the only ones properly fleshed out.

Hector? Give me a break... he's the only one who works for me.

The King kept reminding me of Mel Brooks and "It's good to be the king." 😁😁😁

cosmictrucker132 said:Hector, come on now... he's really the only one who works for me...

The King kept reminding me of Mel Brooks and that "It's good to be the king" bit from the movie, I guess. 😁😁😁

So?

briskjackal5 said:Regarding your take on "average action movies"... big crowd in little Tokyo and American Ninja IV were complete outliers. You really shouldn't have even brought that up.😉

...fair enough...I tend to exaggerate my points anyway...😁

Henry Anderson47 said:So what?

So and so...🤔

...which means I was basically treating him like a total joke.

Henry Anderson47 said:Honestly, I’d be down for either angle. Since this isn't even based on actual mythology, I really wouldn't mind if they just ditched the whole Troy thing and wrote a completely original script from scratch.

If the movie had actually been built on an original concept, I wouldn't have a single complaint.

But as it stands? They might as well have titled it "Achilles in Small Town, USA." 😁

Kevin King52 said:If this movie had actually been based on an original concept, I wouldn't have a single complaint to make.

As it stands, they might as well have titled it "Achilles in Small Town, USA." 😁

👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏

Or Achilles... any similarities are purely coincidental...
but whatever, it's just another Hollywood spectacle. What else could you expect?

I'm siding with everyone trashing this movie.
Unbelievable, sugary, fake, overproduced, and just way too pretentious.
The only thing worth remembering is Brad Pitt's ass, while the actual "film" (plus those insanely salty popcorn🙂 ) was a total disaster!

Man, when I compare this battle to the ones in Lord of the Rings, it's just pathetic...🙄

When "Last night was a mistake" came out of Helen's mouth, I honestly thought I was going to lose it from laughing so hard.

It totally reminded me of that one episode of damned Helen, number 2456.

Nastassja Kinski said:And Helen is a blonde? That’s nonsense. I always pictured her with dark hair. 👎

If Helen is a blonde in "Alan Ford," who are you to argue? 😠

rapidstag74 said:If Helen is a blonde in "Alan Ford," who are you to argue? 😠

You see, they really should have adapted the Iliad exactly as it was depicted in Alan Ford. After reading "Illum," I realized I had read the Magnus & bunker version of the story a long, long time ago. I remembered the inscription "here to be someone be Troy. Dig it up one day," the depiction of Paris wanting to burn down Helen's palace with a canister of gasoline, and Priam saying, "Paris, you are undoubtedly the stupidest among my hundred children, and the competition in that field is fierce." But my favorite was definitely Odysseus: "Hop-a, cup-a, the two of us together! Hop-a, cup-a, the two of us together!"

I suppose I will have to coordinate with my friends to go see Troy. In the best-case scenario, it will be loud and spectacular, filled with battles, CGI, and plenty of skin; in the worst case, it will be exactly the same, except I'll be dying of laughter because the movie will be so ridiculous.

Still, I am disappointed by the lack of gods. Not because we need to follow every single line of the Iliad verbatim—I couldn't care less about that, considering I barely managed to finish two books of it—but because I genuinely believe that adding gods, monsters, and magic would have made Troy five times more insane.

Why don't they just broadcast one of those old Hollywood classics based on Greek mythology on TV? Something like "Jason and the Argonauts"... featuring those classic stop-motion effects by Ray Harryhausen. I watched one of those on HAHAHAHART on a Sunday morning a while back and loved it: there was a fight against a stop-motion Medusa, and a scene describing the legend of how man was created... It was a fantastic film.

...

Uhhh, this went completely off-topic. 😁

rapidstag74 said:If Helen is a blonde in "Alan Ford," who are you to argue otherwise? 😠

It would have been such a massive blow to my education if I hadn't read Alan Ford...
it actually saved me during my elementary school history exams on ancient Rome...
sorry for the OT...

the witch said:what a waste my education would have been if I hadn't read Alan Ford
it actually saved me during an elementary school history test on ancient Rome
apologies for the off-topic tangent

Alan Ford never goes off-topic! 😬

While you guys are all arguing about Helen and the blondes (though I always pictured Helen as more of a brunette 😉)...
were you actually expecting anything better than lines from some blonde girl like:
"last night was a mistake"????? 😛

To me, it feels like the biggest blunder was how they completely sidelined Odysseus—his whole character and story—and just totally wasted a talent like Sean Bean.
Not to even get started on the actual myth behind Odysseus.

Interestingly, it didn't bother me that much while I was watching the movie.

Maybe it's just because Brad Pitt's physique was too distracting. 😛 😉

I still think one of the most intense moments is when Paris just cowardly flees from Menelaus and cowers at his brother's feet.

This is definitely NOT a Hollywood scene. I honestly can't remember the last time I saw a main character in an American movie show that much drama and cowardice all at once. For that 👍

Good grief, what a pathetic display of zero sense of humor. 😲

Claiming the "dialogue is bad" and all that nonsense... 🙄

The dialogue is hyper-stylized and, as such, is abso-fucking-absolutely brilliant!

Of course, I assume those of you rushing to spit on > tend to be easily impressed by pathetic garbage like "my name is Maximus Decimus Meridius..." 🙂, but look—that scene where the lovely Briseis (you pedophiles of the world—unite with the whole >! 😁—seriously) laments how, to paraphrase, many women who saw their husbands off to battle that morning won't live to see them return, to which our hero responds, "Perhaps your brother can comfort them. I hear he's good at charming other men's wives..." 😂—is, whether you want to admit it or not, simply iconic!!!

Ah, >, forgive me for that little allusion to pedophiles; it was a mistake... Yes, yes, many mistakes were made by me last week! 🥳

But look, that scene where beautiful Briseis—who is basically a predator for every nation out there (with silentpilot6 leading the charge! 😁 —get it together)—laments about how, to paraphrase, many women who sent their husbands off to battle that morning won't live to see them return, only for our hero to snap back with, "Perhaps your brother can comfort them. I hear he's good at charming other men's wives..." 😂—well, whether you want to admit it or not, it is simply c-u-l-t!!!

Yes, yes, I remember it was some kind of joke during the film
Cult? No, it’s the only part worth watching
And apparently, it was a joke during those peak moments of sheer absurdity (read: the scenes with Paris and Helen—"I love you," "No, I love you"... blah blah blah