Arming Ukraine

https://twitter.com/MacWBishop/statu...FD5876CoKrfQ4U

Honestly, the Russians are dumping so much armor out there that Ukraine is actually running into a weird bottleneck—they’ve got plenty of hardware now, but just not enough trained crews to actually man all of it. 😬

https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/0...equipment.html

For what it's worth, looking at the data, the Russians have lost about 2,700 pieces of equipment so far, and over 1,000 of those have been captured by the Americans. 😁

Looks like Ukrainians are picking up 100 self-propelled howitzers directly from the German military, and they'll be shipped out right away.
Source: news this morning on Welt am Sonntag

coastalbison6 said:Looks like Ukrainians are picking up 100 self-propelled howitzers directly from the German military, and they'll be shipped out right away.
Source: news this morning on Welt am Sonntag

Once again, the Germans are looking out for themselves. It’s probably just old gear they grabbed from East Germany—they barely have 100 PzH-2000s left for their own use anyway.

And honestly, instead of selling them, they could've just handed them over as a gift. The Ukrainians are basically doing them a favor here.

Kate Lewis3 said:Once again, the Germans are looking out for themselves. It’s probably just old gear they grabbed from East Germany—they barely have 100 PzH-2000s left for their own use anyway.

And honestly, instead of selling them, they could've just handed them over as a gift. The Ukrainians are basically doing them a favor here.

American howitzers, 100 units for $1.7 billion
Lockheed Martin will deliver replacements to the Americans within 30 months.

https://www.kmweg.de/systeme-produkt...erie/pzh-2000/

handelsblatt.de

News report regarding 100 self-propelled howitzers to Lockheed Martin offering Ukraine. The delivery should occur via a ring exchange involving the Bundeswehr according to Ukraine's vision, reported by Welt am Sonntag and cites circles of the government in Kyiv.

Accordingly, the Bundeswehr should provide 100 of its howitzers to Ukraine in the short term. Lockheed Martin can deliver the first new howitzers 30 months after contract signing. The 100 howitzers, including a training package and spare parts worth 1.7 billion euros, are part of the deal.

From Lockheed Martin and the Ukrainian government, no statements on this report were initially available. A spokesperson for the Federal Ministry of Defense did not comment on this report and referred to Monday.

Kate Lewis3 said:Once again, the Germans are looking out for themselves. It’s probably just old gear they grabbed from East Germany—they barely have 100 PzH-2000s left for their own use anyway.

And honestly, instead of selling them, they could've just handed them over as a gift. The Ukrainians are basically doing them a favor here.

I honestly get the vibe that they're selling these for pennies on the dollar, just so they can claim it was a "sale" instead of a donation.

Just so they can maintain that "neutrality" facade...

coastalbison6 said:American howitzers, 100 units for $1.7 billion
Lockheed Martin will deliver replacements to the Americans within 30 months.

https://www.kmweg.de/systeme-produkt...erie/pzh-2000/

handelsblatt.de

News report regarding 100 self-propelled howitzers to Lockheed Martin offering Ukraine. The delivery should occur via a ring exchange involving the Bundeswehr according to Ukraine's vision, reported by Welt am Sonntag and cites circles of the government in Kyiv.

Accordingly, the Bundeswehr should provide 100 of its howitzers to Ukraine in the short term. Lockheed Martin can deliver the first new howitzers 30 months after contract signing. The 100 howitzers, including a training package and spare parts worth 1.7 billion euros, are part of the deal.

From Lockheed Martin and the Ukrainian government, no statements on this report were initially available. A spokesperson for the Federal Ministry of Defense did not comment on this report and referred to Monday.

Just drop a link if you find it, I can't track this down.

But look, if that price tag is actually real for 100 PzH-2000s—which seems sketchy since they're supposedly offloading their entire fleet while refusing to sell the Marder vehicles just sitting there waiting to be scrapped—then the math is totally blown. We're talking $17 million per unit? When we picked up ours for under $3.5 million? Even if the production cost for a brand-new PzH-2000 is around $10 million, I don't buy that the ammo alone accounts for that massive gap. Not even with missiles included.

Unless, of course, someone is taking a massive kickback under the table.

Kate Lewis3 said:Just drop a link if you find it, I can't track this down.

But look, if that price tag is actually real for 100 PzH-2000s—which seems sketchy since they're supposedly offloading their entire fleet while refusing to sell the Marder vehicles just sitting there waiting to be scrapped—then the math is totally blown. We're talking $17 million per unit? When we picked up ours for under $3.5 million? Even if the production cost for a brand-new PzH-2000 is around $10 million, I don't buy that the ammo alone accounts for that massive gap. Not even with missiles included.

Unless, of course, someone is taking a massive kickback under the table.

I copied the text straight from the Handelsblatt ticker.
Just Google “Handelsblatt Ukraine 100 howitzers.”
There's stuff on Welt too, but it's behind a paywall.

Kate Lewis3 said:Just drop a link if you find it, I can't track this down.

But look, if that price tag is actually real for 100 PzH-2000s—which seems sketchy since they're supposedly offloading their entire fleet while refusing to sell the Marder vehicles just sitting there waiting to be scrapped—then the math is totally blown. We're talking $17 million per unit? When we picked up ours for under $3.5 million? Even if the production cost for a brand-new PzH-2000 is around $10 million, I don't buy that the ammo alone accounts for that massive gap. Not even with missiles included.

Unless, of course, someone is taking a massive kickback under the table.

There's also a wheeled version out there.
RCH155

The Brits sent over some "Martlets" too, just to see how they perform in the field 😁
https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status...83814410694664

$17 million apiece is a total rip-off.

coastalbison6 said:American howitzers, 100 units for $1.7 billion
Lockheed Martin will deliver replacements to the Americans within 30 months.

https://www.kmweg.de/systeme-produkt...erie/pzh-2000/

handelsblatt.de

News report regarding 100 self-propelled howitzers to Lockheed Martin offering Ukraine. The delivery should occur via a ring exchange involving the Bundeswehr according to Ukraine's vision, reported by Welt am Sonntag and cites circles of the government in Kyiv.

Accordingly, the Bundeswehr should provide 100 of its howitzers to Ukraine in the short term. Lockheed Martin can deliver the first new howitzers 30 months after contract signing. The 100 howitzers, including a training package and spare parts worth 1.7 billion euros, are part of the deal.

From Lockheed Martin and the Ukrainian government, no statements on this report were initially available. A spokesperson for the Federal Ministry of Defense did not comment on this report and referred to Monday.

There will be more of this, assuming the Russians don't cut off the gas supply before everything can actually be manufactured on schedule.

Chris Thomas94 said:I honestly get the vibe that they're selling these for pennies on the dollar, just so they can claim it was a "sale" instead of a donation.

Just so they can maintain that "neutrality" facade...

They act like absolute scumbags, but hey, I guess that’s nothing new when it comes to them.
The whole thing with these howitzers isn't even a done deal yet; it's really just a proposal from Ukraine to buy used gear at some totally insane prices. Given how Germany has shut down every single attempt to actually purchase—not donate!—any serious weaponry so far, we really ought to be skeptical about this one too. They already turned down the offer for Marder vehicles, and they blew off the request for Gepards, even though those Marder units are currently being replaced and the Gepards are just sitting there in storage.

If they're really that terrified of Putin, they might as well just sell them off quietly. 🙄

17,000 pieces of anti-tank weaponry have been delivered to the government in Kyiv.

But, can we really assume that an equal amount of air defense systems arrived as well?

Nancy Gomez26 said:There will be more of this, assuming the Russians don't cut off the gas supply before everything can actually be manufactured on schedule.

That is some high-level wit right there...
Nice one, my friend..

It won't be the first time Russia has dug its own grave. It's practically a tradition for them at this point.

Carl Lee27 said:They act like absolute scumbags, but hey, I guess that’s nothing new when it comes to them.
The whole thing with these howitzers isn't even a done deal yet; it's really just a proposal from Ukraine to buy used gear at some totally insane prices. Given how Germany has shut down every single attempt to actually purchase—not donate!—any serious weaponry so far, we really ought to be skeptical about this one too. They already turned down the offer for Marder vehicles, and they blew off the request for Gepards, even though those Marder units are currently being replaced and the Gepards are just sitting there in storage.

Honestly, it feels just as sketchy to me that the Germans would ever actually agree to sell off their entire stock of PzH-2000s.

Man, maybe the Slovaks will actually step up and send over some of their Mig's. If they pull that off, you have to wonder if the Poles might follow suit too, right?

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/statu...paCyFD6qA&s=19

coastalbison6 said:American howitzers, 100 units for $1.7 billion
Lockheed Martin will deliver replacements to the Americans within 30 months.

https://www.kmweg.de/systeme-produkt...erie/pzh-2000/

handelsblatt.de

News report regarding 100 self-propelled howitzers to Lockheed Martin offering Ukraine. The delivery should occur via a ring exchange involving the Bundeswehr according to Ukraine's vision, reported by Welt am Sonntag and cites circles of the government in Kyiv.

Accordingly, the Bundeswehr should provide 100 of its howitzers to Ukraine in the short term. Lockheed Martin can deliver the first new howitzers 30 months after contract signing. The 100 howitzers, including a training package and spare parts worth 1.7 billion euros, are part of the deal.

From Lockheed Martin and the Ukrainian government, no statements on this report were initially available. A spokesperson for the Federal Ministry of Defense did not comment on this report and referred to Monday.

I mean, it’s highly likely the Germans aren't just dropping off some guns and leaving; they're probably sending entire combat units, ammo trucks, training setups, spare parts... the whole nine yards.

Well, if that's the case, it might actually be a game changer... though I guess the real question is whether they'll even be operational in a month, right when the Ukrainians are gearing up for their offensive...

Kate Lewis3 said:Just drop a link if you find it, I can't track this down.

But look, if that price tag is actually real for 100 PzH-2000s—which seems sketchy since they're supposedly offloading their entire fleet while refusing to sell the Marder vehicles just sitting there waiting to be scrapped—then the math is totally blown. We're talking $17 million per unit? When we picked up ours for under $3.5 million? Even if the production cost for a brand-new PzH-2000 is around $10 million, I don't buy that the ammo alone accounts for that massive gap. Not even with missiles included.

Unless, of course, someone is taking a massive kickback under the table.

The new Paladins in the States go for about $11 million each, and that's just swapping the old turret and gun onto a fresh chassis; plus, for that kind of cash, they get a dedicated ammo carrier bundled in with every self-propelled howitzer.

the cost of 100 Pzh 2000 howitzers including spare parts could reach an amount of 1.7 billion Euro. man, that's a lot...

It looks like they're playing it smart by hitching a ride on that massive German order for 100 units, basically sweetening the deal to grab another 20 or so for themselves at a discount because the volume is so huge. It drives the per-unit price down.

Seriously though, Germans are such snakes; they won't donate weapons because then they wouldn't have them, but they'll happily sell you the exact same gear—doesn't matter to them if they end up empty-handed later.🤦

EDIT: forget it, this isn't happening... According to the report, the delivery of new howitzers to Ukraine will be completed in 2027.

Carl Lee27 said:Man, maybe the Slovaks will actually step up and send over some of their Mig's. If they pull that off, you have to wonder if the Poles might follow suit too, right?

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/statu...paCyFD6qA&s=19

Yeah. Like they said themselves, keeping those Migs running is basically impossible now, and the new F-16s aren't arriving for another three years.

Donating a bunch of 29s would probably be the most ridiculous, nonsensical thing ever seen in aviation history. Honestly, it’d be a joke for the Mig-29, the Mikoyan-Gurevich Bureau, and even Russia—if there was anything left worth saving there...