The start of the Russian invasion of Ukraine (Part 1)

Carl Lee27 said:Look, over the last few years, Turkey has actually held their own against the Russians quite a few times, and they hold their ground pretty solidly whenever things get heated. It’s not like Russia is even in a position to make any real threats toward Turkey right now, unless you're talking about full-blown nuclear armageddon.
Plus, let's not forget how Erdogan basically gave Putin a reality check when he started complaining about those drone sales.

yeah, that's what I was thinking.
Man... this guy seems totally unhinged based on everything I'm seeing—he isn't playing games.

Samuel Jones8 said:Zelenskyy is holding his own incredibly well.

The Associated Press reports that when offered an American extraction for himself and his family, he responded: "I don't need a ride; I need ammunition."🙏

Rebecca Lewis7 said:It is because those neo-Nazi Azov battalions don't even number 20,000; they are the only ones actually providing resistance, plus all the chaos.

The Americans are absolutely fed up with the corruption... the empty promises... and the daily looting by both politicians and officials... not to mention the Nazi slogans, the censorship... throwing representatives into the trash along with the garbage, the threats from extremists, and the bans on Canadian... Romanian... schools...

Much like how Americans, after years of indulging in capitalism, finally realized that statistics are a lie; they have smartphones and designer underwear in their stores now, but they can't afford food or utility bills, so they are completely done with the promises and fairy tales.

Would any of you actually fight tomorrow for Biden and Pelosi and foreign corporations and big media conglomerates? Does milk and honey flow through your streets, or is an American wallet actually in an American pocket? Because mine certainly isn't.

Who owns the food industry, the breweries, the banks...? Who owns the telecommunications... who owns the massive conglomerates? It is all identical in Ukraine; oligarchs and foreign corporations own everything, and Ukrainians have no intention of dying for their interests.

But then again, what does a guy from the rural Midwest care when there is plenty of whiskey at the end of the day?
They'll be fine.
Please, tone down the alcohol consumption a bit.🤣

Besides, the Russian leader won't send Russians to die when his Kadyrovites... Cossacks... are begging him on their knees to let them off the leash.
A column of 70,000 Chechens was mobilized in 24 hours and they are currently heading to Donetsk; in 24 hours they will be in Kyiv—it’s just like how tourists in BMWs and Mercedes drive to Kyiv. If the conflict ends before they arrive, they'll just cry millions of tears because they failed to become men, so we might need to build a dam to prevent the flooding.

I suggest that the feminists, the activists, the LGBT associations, and the trans rights fighters... the democracy activists... should all pick up weapons now and go face the music. If they lack the courage, they could at least adopt the Ukrainian refugees they spent years encouraging to mess with Russia and promising they would defend them; oh wait, those were just false... empty promises, promises made to fools. The main thing was that they collected the paychecks and bonuses from UK, US, and EU funds, while the moronic-idiotic-naive-gullible... well, whoever, take the money and run.,
Let the Ukrainians fend for themselves now, after we spent years egging them on to lash out at Russia and bomb them daily for eight years, while arming, training, and coordinating them... it all seems quite revolting to me... 🤮🤮 truly disgusting... it makes me sick.

Where are the British now, stuck in a hole along with those "extremely special" individuals?

That is exactly how we will be defended tomorrow too, and then some Americans will whine about why we don't have weapons... or why we don't have aircraft... we don't need any of that; our "allies" will defend us just like they did in the 90s—they will defend us with sanctions on weaponry, just like they are doing to the Ukrainians now, with Sweden sending helmets. I might actually lose my lunch in those helmets.

As far as I can tell, Azov isn't part of those Nazi Russian forces—they're actually fighting against them.

Chris Chase5 said:Zelensky is a dead man walking. He’s known that for days now. And honestly, I’d say he’s performing an incredible mission, going far beyond just doing a job.

Ukrainians are doing exactly what our people did back during the war. Who can send their wives and children away while they pick up weapons and head out? It's like fighting tanks with nothing but slingshots. We grew up with Molotov cocktails in the newspapers; that was just part of daily life for us. Anyone who lived through our defensive war can't help but feel a sense of mourning seeing this, and you can't help but side with those defending themselves. The Russians really need to get rid of that sick individual...

Naturally, any sane American sees this as a carbon copy of our own war, and it triggers those exact same emotions. There are too many Putin-supporters on this forum enjoying this spectacle and blaming the West.

Chris Chase5 said:Zelensky is a dead man walking. He’s known that for days now. And honestly, I’d say he’s performing an incredible mission, going far beyond just doing a job.

Ukrainians are doing exactly what our people did back during the war. Who can send their wives and children away while they pick up weapons and head out? It's like fighting tanks with nothing but slingshots. We grew up with Molotov cocktails in the newspapers; that was just part of daily life for us. Anyone who lived through our defensive war can't help but feel a sense of mourning seeing this, and you can't help but side with those defending themselves. The Russians really need to get rid of that sick individual...

Yeah, he made the call to stay with his people until the bitter end and share their fate.
That earns him some respect.
I see the posts all over social media. People who know they’re heading toward certain death, yet they go anyway... it reminds me so much of our fathers. The Ukrainians won't forget this. Coexisting with the Russians is officially off the table now.

Betty Carter3 said:I meant they're more leaning toward Russia than the West.

That's a lie. You're just wasting your breath.

Gerald Torres84 said:Naturally, any sane American sees this as a carbon copy of our own war, and it triggers those exact same emotions. There are too many Putin-supporters on this forum enjoying this spectacle and blaming the West.

If being a "sane American" means being uneducated and uninformed, then sure.
This war and ours have nothing to do with each other.

cosmicgull52 said:The Associated Press reports that when offered an American extraction for himself and his family, he responded: "I don't need a ride; I need ammunition."🙏

What a legend.
That old man in the Kremlin who’s terrified of anyone getting within three feet of him isn't even tall enough to reach an ankle.

Adam Harris said:It’s official now: Russia is launching its assault with only a third of the forces they originally staged around Ukraine.

Word is the Russians had something like 180,000 troops ready before the invasion, but according to Western intelligence, they're actually running with about a third of that—roughly 60,000 soldiers.

They managed to storm into Kyiv in less than 48 hours. Now, look, Ukraine is a massive country—it's huge—so I honestly find it strange how many people seem convinced that Russia is losing this thing. To be fair, I doubt NATO would have been any faster or more successful at it.

It’s pretty tough to pin down actual Russian losses, especially since the Ukrainians tend to release data without much proof—they've even been caught being dishonest a few times—so I'm leaning towards the idea that those Ukrainian numbers regarding Russian personnel and equipment are way overblown.

I was expecting much stiffer resistance and a lot more headaches for Russia, but maybe that's just starting to happen now with the fight for Kyiv. It still doesn't quite click for me why Putin decided to hit Ukraine with this level of force, considering most Russians actually feel some sympathy for them and see them as kin. Even though I think Russia is doing better than okay on the military front right now, all of this is probably going to end up causing more harm than good for Russia in the long run—and for Putin too.

Chris Chase5 said:Zelensky is a dead man walking. He’s known that for days now. And honestly, I’d say he’s performing an incredible mission, going far beyond just doing a job.

Ukrainians are doing exactly what our people did back during the war. Who can send their wives and children away while they pick up weapons and head out? It's like fighting tanks with nothing but slingshots. We grew up with Molotov cocktails in the newspapers; that was just part of daily life for us. Anyone who lived through our defensive war can't help but feel a sense of mourning seeing this, and you can't help but side with those defending themselves. The Russians really need to get rid of that sick individual...

I think Zelenskyy will survive,
and all this pathetic sentimentality will age poorly in some Sean Penn documentary.
I highly doubt he's some local hero charging tanks with nothing.
He spends more time on Twitter than your average armchair general,
but information warfare is still a critical part of combat,
so credit where it's due regarding keeping Ukrainian morale up!
He handles that perfectly.

Christian Torres3 said:That's a lie. You're just wasting your breath.

You haven't actually provided a single argument here.
I don't follow this "wasting breath" metaphor—I am simply pointing out the disconnect between official government policy and what the people actually want, and how the leadership seems terrified of that public will.

I guess I'm drawing a parallel to the sluggish response from Ukrainians, which allowed the Russians to reach Kyiv in just a day or so. Maybe it's because the current, illegitimate Ukrainian power structure is pivoting toward the West while the people themselves lean toward Russia. So, perhaps there isn't much of a fanatic resistance happening.

Betty Carter3 said:You haven't actually provided a single argument here.
I don't follow this "wasting breath" metaphor—I am simply pointing out the disconnect between official government policy and what the people actually want, and how the leadership seems terrified of that public will.

I guess I'm drawing a parallel to the sluggish response from Ukrainians, which allowed the Russians to reach Kyiv in just a day or so. Maybe it's because the current, illegitimate Ukrainian power structure is pivoting toward the West while the people themselves lean toward Russia. So, perhaps there isn't much of a fanatic resistance happening.

Pro-Russian parties in Ukraine are pulling in maybe 15% of the vote. That's it. You're living in a fantasy land!

Carl Lee27 said:Look, over the last few years, Turkey has actually held their own against the Russians quite a few times, and they hold their ground pretty solidly whenever things get heated. It’s not like Russia is even in a position to make any real threats toward Turkey right now, unless you're talking about full-blown nuclear armageddon.
Plus, let's not forget how Erdogan basically gave Putin a reality check when he started complaining about those drone sales.

I honestly thought Erdogan would play this more strategically, but he’s not even trying.
Does that isolated lunatic really think anyone has his back? China is staying on the sidelines, which is a far cry from actually supporting him.

gentleharbor3 said:If being a "sane American" means being uneducated and uninformed, then sure.
This war and ours have nothing to do with each other.

No, "normal" refers to someone who doesn't take pleasure in the suffering of another nation fighting to escape the Russian boot.
It’s just like how people used to talk about us back in the day, labeling us as bloodthirsty extremists killing innocent civilians, while claiming they were just "liberating" their ancestral lands—exactly what Russia is doing now. If you've actually listened to a Putin speech, everything becomes perfectly clear.

gentleharbor3 said:I think Zelenskyy will survive,
and all this pathetic sentimentality will age poorly in some Sean Penn documentary.
I highly doubt he's some local hero charging tanks with nothing.
He spends more time on Twitter than your average armchair general,
but information warfare is still a critical part of combat,
so credit where it's due regarding keeping Ukrainian morale up!
He handles that perfectly.

So you find him pathetic? And you're convinced he'll be dead in a few days? Because of whatever methods the Russians decide to use to avoid looking like villains? He isn't a frontline soldier; if he tried to run at a tank, he'd be gone in a second. He actually does more than any typical statesman facing death threats. He isn't a general, he's a comedian. He's got a family to think about.

What's gotten into you lately?

Olivia Stewart2 said:Pro-Russian parties in Ukraine are pulling in maybe 15% of the vote. That's it. You're living in a fantasy land!

The Republican Party pretty much always ends up in power here in America. I guess you could conclude that Americans generally like the Republican Party.

rowdytiger13 said:I honestly thought Erdogan would play this more strategically, but he’s not even trying.
Does that isolated lunatic really think anyone has his back? China is staying on the sidelines, which is a far cry from actually supporting him.

China is never going to get behind this, and neither is Mexico, because messing with territorial integrity creates massive headaches for them regarding Taiwan. Besides, the Chinese work incredibly well with the West and the USA (regardless of all the political noise), and they definitely don't need an escalation that pulls them into the middle of it. The absolute most Russia can hope to get out of China is some restraint at the Security Council, though even that level of restraint is already telling.

If Kyiv falls, nobody’s going to give a damn about whether Zelenskyy fixed his stage presence or whatever.

I still can't wrap my head around how unprepared they were, though I guess at least they weren't steamrolled in forty-eight hours like all those pundits predicted back when everything was kicking off.

Looking at this live map, you can see the Ukrainians are actually holding their own big time. They’re steadily clawing back occupied territory

https://liveuamap.com/?ll=46.8491185...5624984&zoom=7

Drew Booth60 said:Word is the Russians had something like 180,000 troops ready before the invasion, but according to Western intelligence, they're actually running with about a third of that—roughly 60,000 soldiers.

They managed to storm into Kyiv in less than 48 hours. Now, look, Ukraine is a massive country—it's huge—so I honestly find it strange how many people seem convinced that Russia is losing this thing. To be fair, I doubt NATO would have been any faster or more successful at it.

It’s pretty tough to pin down actual Russian losses, especially since the Ukrainians tend to release data without much proof—they've even been caught being dishonest a few times—so I'm leaning towards the idea that those Ukrainian numbers regarding Russian personnel and equipment are way overblown.

I was expecting much stiffer resistance and a lot more headaches for Russia, but maybe that's just starting to happen now with the fight for Kyiv. It still doesn't quite click for me why Putin decided to hit Ukraine with this level of force, considering most Russians actually feel some sympathy for them and see them as kin. Even though I think Russia is doing better than okay on the military front right now, all of this is probably going to end up causing more harm than good for Russia in the long run—and for Putin too.

Unfortunately, I tend to agree that this is the closest version of the truth.

The West and the Ukrainians seem more focused on Twitter and information warfare while the Russians continue their advance. They really should have prepared for all of this much more seriously. It looks like they were convinced right up until the last second that Putin was just bluffing.

Interesting read:
ECONOMIST WARNS / Everyone is avoiding the one sanction that might actually work, the EU is weakening, inflation is climbing, and politicians are just hiding behind slogans.