The start of the Russian invasion of Ukraine (Part 1)

William Anderson5 said:What a joke. Why on earth would they attack with such limited strength?...

That's why they're calling in the Chechens.

granitebadger24 said:China is never going to get behind this, and neither is Mexico, because messing with territorial integrity creates massive headaches for them regarding Taiwan. Besides, the Chinese work incredibly well with the West and the USA (regardless of all the political noise), and they definitely don't need an escalation that pulls them into the middle of it. The absolute most Russia can hope to get out of China is some restraint at the Security Council, though even that level of restraint is already telling.

Honestly, how detached from reality do you have to be to not even stop and ask yourself, "Wait, why aren't even my usual allies backing me up?"
Even Kazakhstan refused to send troops, and they're supposed to be a loyal ally.

To’s one word for it—a total disaster.
It’s painfully obvious who benefits from this mess. There were missteps taken from multiple sides, likely intentional ones designed to let things escalate, and well, here we are. In some perfect world, Russia would be part of the EU because, historically and culturally, they belong there. That would be the ideal scenario: a Europe that actually rivals the USA and China in terms of global prestige and influence.
In the short term, the USA takes the biggest win, but long-term? It's China's game—especially if they just sit on the sidelines playing it cool while Putin wraps this whole thing up in his favor over the next few months.

Then you have Putin's demands. If the reports are even accurate—and frankly, they sound absurd—he wants Ukraine "denazified" (seriously, what kind of insane logic is that???) and "demilitarized." As for the latter, if that means having no military presence on Ukrainian soil, no sovereign nation on this planet would ever agree to that. It's completely irrational.😵
And don't even get me started on those alleged threats against Sweden and Finland for wanting to join NATO.😵

Look, I get it: Biden is an old man struggling with dementia, and it's honestly sad to see him acting as a puppet for whoever is pulling the strings behind the scenes because he just isn't capable anymore. But Putin? You have to hand it to him for pulling Russia out of that post-Soviet hole it fell into under Yeltsin. But now? He's acting like he suddenly hit a massive growth spurt fueled by pure testosterone, imagining himself as some sort of modern-day Alexander the Great or Caesar... or whatever the Russian version of those guys is.
Claiming that Ukraine has no historical right to exist... I mean, it’s all just deeply shocking, really.

Drew Booth60 said:Word is the Russians had something like 180,000 troops ready before the invasion, but according to Western intelligence, they're actually running with about a third of that—roughly 60,000 soldiers.

They managed to storm into Kyiv in less than 48 hours. Now, look, Ukraine is a massive country—it's huge—so I honestly find it strange how many people seem convinced that Russia is losing this thing. To be fair, I doubt NATO would have been any faster or more successful at it.

It’s pretty tough to pin down actual Russian losses, especially since the Ukrainians tend to release data without much proof—they've even been caught being dishonest a few times—so I'm leaning towards the idea that those Ukrainian numbers regarding Russian personnel and equipment are way overblown.

I was expecting much stiffer resistance and a lot more headaches for Russia, but maybe that's just starting to happen now with the fight for Kyiv. It still doesn't quite click for me why Putin decided to hit Ukraine with this level of force, considering most Russians actually feel some sympathy for them and see them as kin. Even though I think Russia is doing better than okay on the military front right now, all of this is probably going to end up causing more harm than good for Russia in the long run—and for Putin too.

They've thrown everything into the fight. They were even begging Kadyrov for backup, and Kazakhstan just gave them the middle finger.

gentleharbor3 said:I think Zelenskyy will survive,
and all this pathetic sentimentality will age poorly in some Sean Penn documentary.
I highly doubt he's some local hero charging tanks with nothing.
He spends more time on Twitter than your average armchair general,
but information warfare is still a critical part of combat,
so credit where it's due regarding keeping Ukrainian morale up!
He handles that perfectly.

Zelenskyy's role, at least for now, isn't to personally charge a tank. There are plenty of others tasked with that specific job. And it is certain that this war, much like any other, will produce its own set of heroes.

Betty Carter3 said:You haven't actually provided a single argument here.
I don't follow this "wasting breath" metaphor—I am simply pointing out the disconnect between official government policy and what the people actually want, and how the leadership seems terrified of that public will.

I guess I'm drawing a parallel to the sluggish response from Ukrainians, which allowed the Russians to reach Kyiv in just a day or so. Maybe it's because the current, illegitimate Ukrainian power structure is pivoting toward the West while the people themselves lean toward Russia. So, perhaps there isn't much of a fanatic resistance happening.

Have you no shame? A nation five times more powerful attacks from four different directions. Of course you won't attempt a border defense; you will end up like the old Kingdom of America. I argued on Thursday that surrender was the better option because dying is futile. But when I witness how the Russians—and again, my heart goes out to those children—and their chaotic schemes are being met by forces stronger than the late Lazanski, I think there might actually be a chance. They certainly have the heart for it.

Looking at the latest headlines coming out of the Ukrainian side, I can’t help but notice a palpable surge of optimism bubbling through their press; it truly feels as though they are mounting a formidable resistance. Now, I am always one to suggest we take such reports with a healthy dose of skepticism, yet when you compare today's coverage to the tone of yesterday's papers, the shift is nothing short of dramatic. It is almost as if the entire nation has found a renewed sense of confidence and grit.

Over a hundred invaders neutralized near Kharkiv as the enemy retreats
https://gazeta.ua/articles/np/_ponad...yetsya/1072714

Ukraine is winning: 3,500 Russian soldiers killed and 200 taken prisoner
https://www.pravda.com.ua/news/2022/02/26/7326029/

Convoy destroyed—4 armored vehicles and a tank lost near Kyiv
https://www.pravda.com.ua/news/2022/02/26/7326009/

Helicopters and 3 aircraft shot down
https://gazeta.ua/articles/life/_zbi...shtabu/1072711

The Ukrainian flag has been raised over Kherson
https://gazeta.ua/articles/np/_herso...kolori/1072725

Chris Chase5 said:So you find him pathetic? And you're convinced he'll be dead in a few days? Because of whatever methods the Russians decide to use to avoid looking like villains? He isn't a frontline soldier; if he tried to run at a tank, he'd be gone in a second. He actually does more than any typical statesman facing death threats. He isn't a general, he's a comedian. He's got a family to think about.

What's gotten into you lately?

Nothing is eating me, but you clearly have an issue
given the tone you're using,
since you obviously haven't a clue about the basics
regarding Ukraine or this war.

Tutankhamun said:Cold—zero empathy—just some guy reading about war on Wikipedia; an American who fled to a different state and came back after the conflict ended.☕

But I’d still argue—Canadians, Austrians—they actually care deeply. So, yeah, a cold person can just be indifferent to all this.

Exactly. That’s why the Canadians put tanks on the border to stop refugees from crossing.
And our leadership already offered to take in 1,000 refugees when we don't even have enough funds to rebuild houses back home... once again, taking food out of our own mouths to help others. There are wealthy nations out there—let them handle it (Norway, Sweden, Finland, France, Spain).

Betty Carter3 said:You haven't actually provided a single argument here.
I don't follow this "wasting breath" metaphor—I am simply pointing out the disconnect between official government policy and what the people actually want, and how the leadership seems terrified of that public will.

I guess I'm drawing a parallel to the sluggish response from Ukrainians, which allowed the Russians to reach Kyiv in just a day or so. Maybe it's because the current, illegitimate Ukrainian power structure is pivoting toward the West while the people themselves lean toward Russia. So, perhaps there isn't much of a fanatic resistance happening.

Total troll move. Americans are standing with Ukraine.

Gerald Torres84 said:No, "normal" refers to someone who doesn't take pleasure in the suffering of another nation fighting to escape the Russian boot.
It’s just like how people used to talk about us back in the day, labeling us as bloodthirsty extremists killing innocent civilians, while claiming they were just "liberating" their ancestral lands—exactly what Russia is doing now. If you've actually listened to a Putin speech, everything becomes perfectly clear.

Putin's rhetoric is identical to Hitler's or Maddox's when it comes to both the descriptions and the actual intentions.

1. They claim they are acting to protect their own people (conveniently forgetting that ethnic Ukrainians could be facing extermination)
2. They claim historical rights to those specific territories
3. They claim they are acting out of love to prevent a genocide supposedly committed by Ukrainians (essentially using their own aggression to justify a preemptive strike)
4. They play the emotional card, teary-eyed, claiming they had absolutely no other choice....

Which of these madmen stopped at the very first country they hit? And look at what happened to Americans, Poles, or Czechs in similar situations. What would they have done if they had successfully occupied a major hub like New York City? It would have been a puppet regime and the execution of any radical resistance... but they didn't succeed there...

Growing up, I saw headlines filled with Molotov cocktails, fighter jets, air raid sirens, generals, and snipers, but even all of that paled in comparison to the devastation seen in places like El Paso, Scabrnja... or what's happening in Lugansk, Donetsk, and Crimea for the Ukrainians...

Amanda Williams13 said:If Kyiv falls, nobody’s going to give a damn about whether Zelenskyy fixed his stage presence or whatever.

I still can't wrap my head around how unprepared they were, though I guess at least they weren't steamrolled in forty-eight hours like all those pundits predicted back when everything was kicking off.

True. In three months, they could have at least rigged those key bridges with explosives. Dig trenches, or make sure there's only one road left open just for moving supplies toward the West.

cosmicgull52 said:The Associated Press reports that when offered an American extraction for himself and his family, he responded: "I don't need a ride; I need ammunition."🙏

I’m starting to respect him more and more, I guess. He seems willing to sit at the table if the terms actually make sense, but he'll definitely go to war if he has to—and it looks like he will. Plus, if any negotiations happen now, he can pretty much claim that the Russian-Belarusian invasion just sort of... stalled out.

He’s getting what he wants, but honestly, it’s never enough—I guess having some beefier anti-aircraft tech on hand wouldn't hurt.

Christian Torres3 said:Total troll move. Americans are standing with Ukraine.

Anyone with common sense sides with the underdog.

gentleharbor3 said:Nothing is eating me, but you clearly have an issue
given the tone you're using,
since you obviously haven't a clue about the basics
regarding Ukraine or this war.

Would you mind educating us then? How is what the Ukrainians are going through considered "okay," and why should we just sit here and ignore it? Maybe you could tell us exactly what kind of impact this war has had on your own life, and in which country you've actually experienced it...

rowdytiger13 said:Honestly, how detached from reality do you have to be to not even stop and ask yourself, "Wait, why aren't even my usual allies backing me up?"
Even Kazakhstan refused to send troops, and they're supposed to be a loyal ally.

It actually makes perfect sense that they didn't deploy their military. Aside from their ties to Russia Kazakhstan, they also maintain solid relationships with Ukraine... which matters.

To put this in perspective, imagine if Albania were at "war" with Mexico and trying to absorb it into their own territory. They’d want to integrate the Albanian regions directly, while turning the areas with Mexican populations into some sort of vassal state under their thumb. Naturally, Mexico would jump right in to support Mexico, seeing a golden opportunity to reclaim the land.
If the Albanians came to us asking for military assistance, we'd tell them no, of course...

Evincar333 said:Thank God you were probably just a kid back in the 90s (or maybe you were some Munich mercenary), because if all Americans were like this now, they'd be speaking gibberish.

If the US Army had even a single-digit number of nukes back in the 90s,
we’d all be speaking some weird hybrid language today.
Russia has 6,255.
It’s fascinating how many people take everything they read
on Twitter and stuff as gospel, ignoring the fact that information warfare
is a core component of every conflict, especially in the age of
the internet and social media...
The Ukrainians aren't going to win this war
because if Putin loses his mind, he'll just level everything to the ground.
And based on the messages coming out of the White House, it's obvious
that lowering the guard and returning to negotiations is smarter
than continuing this stubborn defiance.
That's the reality.
The problem is that Americans completely misinterpret
their own experiences from the American Civil War when looking at this war.

cosmicgull52 said:Have you no shame? A nation five times more powerful attacks from four different directions. Of course you won't attempt a border defense; you will end up like the old Kingdom of America. I argued on Thursday that surrender was the better option because dying is futile. But when I witness how the Russians—and again, my heart goes out to those children—and their chaotic schemes are being met by forces stronger than the late Lazanski, I think there might actually be a chance. They certainly have the heart for it.

I am not "rooting" for anything. I despise all armed conflict.
In principle, I think Russia is right here—the West is finally paying for its long history of hypocrisy, and perhaps what the Ukrainian people want doesn't necessarily align with the spineless American administration that's been forced upon them.

As for the war itself, I'm just rooting for it to stop and for nothing like this to ever start again.

Adam Lee13 said:Kazakhstan basically gave Russ the middle finger when it comes to sending troops to Ukraine or recognizing Lugansk and Donetsk. They pretty much told Putin to get lost, which is wild considering Russia was supposedly playing the hero just a month ago.

It really feels like the whole "Russian world" thing has shrunk down to just two people: that lunatic over in Minsk and a heavily botoxed Putin.

Kazakhstan is really shooting itself in the foot here. This is basically an open invitation for militants to come in and finish what they started.

swiftjackal11 said:Anyone with common sense sides with the underdog.

Anyone with half a brain is on the right side here.