Should we bring back lockdowns?

Amanda Diaz said:Personally, I despise everyone here who stands there with their hand out, begging for crumbs from the European Union masters, and then has the nerve to celebrate it as some kind of achievement when they toss you two scraps instead of one. I despise that we've managed to turn a nation—one that should be capable of leading a war effort and managing hundreds of thousands of refugees—into this.

But hey, it's perfectly clear that you people aren't capable of anything better.

Bravo!
I’d much rather see my fellow Americans actually earning that money themselves. I'm talking about people like Mike, who's running a firm, Sarah, who owns her own shop, or even Jen, working the floor at a local diner. Forget those handouts from abroad—just give people the chance to work hard and earn a real paycheck.

Amanda Diaz said:Personally, I despise everyone here who stands there with their hand out, begging for crumbs from the European Union masters, and then has the nerve to celebrate it as some kind of achievement when they toss you two scraps instead of one. I despise that we've managed to turn a nation—one that should be capable of leading a war effort and managing hundreds of thousands of refugees—into this.

But hey, it's perfectly clear that you people aren't capable of anything better.

Look, you think I'm the Prime Minister, a Senator, or some big-shot DC representative? Or maybe the President? Who else?
I'm honestly worried that once people finally step out from behind their computer screens and face reality, they're gonna end up like that guy in the news—the one whose mom had to bail him out of a total mess because he couldn't handle himself. 🤣

Amanda Diaz said:Personally, I despise everyone here who stands there with their hand out, begging for crumbs from the European Union masters, and then has the nerve to celebrate it as some kind of achievement when they toss you two scraps instead of one. I despise that we've managed to turn a nation—one that should be capable of leading a war effort and managing hundreds of thousands of refugees—into this.

But hey, it's perfectly clear that you people aren't capable of anything better.

I honestly don't understand why you don't just stop after your first point and admit you're right. Why doesn't your entire argument rest on the idea that progress requires actual hard work and self-reliance? By adding that second part, you're basically contradicting your own opening statement. Even during the war, we were reaching out beyond the borders of America, accepting every bit of aid that came our way. This country has never survived without leaning on the big players in Europe, and when necessary, the Americans or even the Russians.

Then again, seeing as this forum is most active during standard business hours, maybe that's part of the problem too.

Amy Long5 said:Look, there have always been certain countries where they required vaccinations and wouldn't accept a test. Take malaria, for example. I’m against getting vaccinated for that.

When, though? I mean, about a year and a half ago, when I was traveling through a place where malaria is an issue, a vaccine for it didn't even exist yet. I guess.

rustywalker82 said:Look, you think I'm the Prime Minister, a Senator, or some big-shot DC representative? Or maybe the President? Who else?
I'm honestly worried that once people finally step out from behind their computer screens and face reality, they're gonna end up like that guy in the news—the one whose mom had to bail him out of a total mess because he couldn't handle himself. 🤣

No. You’re just acting like this federal recovery fund—which is basically nothing more than American charity—is some kind of groundbreaking miracle, and you actually think everyone else sees it that way too.

Quincy:

I don't know what you want from me. What exactly am I supposed to do with just a username? Are we playing games now? Give me something real to work with. kaže: I don't get why you won't just stop at the first part of your post and admit you're right. Why isn't your entire argument based on the fact that people actually need to put in the work to make progress and fix things? By adding this second half, you're just contradicting everything you said in the beginning.

I’ve been thinking about this for a long time: since the war ended, this country has essentially split into two different worlds. You have one small faction that embraced capitalism and views the USA simply as a massive marketplace. Then you have the much larger group that stayed stuck in a socialist mindset. They look at both the capitalists and the USA as nothing more than a cash cow—something they can milk dry until they eventually have to either beg for scraps or face the consequences.
Look, the first part doesn't contradict the second. It just highlights the two types of people living in this country: the freeloaders and the workers. The problem is that the ratio is constantly shifting in favor of the freeloaders, and they’re the ones voting for this kind of government.
Amanda Diaz:

I don't know what to tell you. Is anyone actually listening anymore? It feels like we're just shouting into a void while everything falls apart around us. Why does it always have to be this way? kaže: If you look at how this forum peaks during business hours, maybe that’s actually part of the problem.

I don't know about you and your habit of writing during business hours, but I'm the only one who ends up feeling the consequences of that kind of work.

Amanda Diaz said:No. You’re just acting like this federal recovery fund—which is basically nothing more than American charity—is some kind of groundbreaking miracle, and you actually think everyone else sees it that way too.

Quincy:

I don't know what you want from me. What exactly am I supposed to do with just a username? Are we playing games now? Give me something real to work with. kaže: I don't get why you won't just stop at the first part of your post and admit you're right. Why isn't your entire argument based on the fact that people actually need to put in the work to make progress and fix things? By adding this second half, you're just contradicting everything you said in the beginning.

I’ve been thinking about this for a long time: since the war ended, this country has essentially split into two different worlds. You have one small faction that embraced capitalism and views the USA simply as a massive marketplace. Then you have the much larger group that stayed stuck in a socialist mindset. They look at both the capitalists and the USA as nothing more than a cash cow—something they can milk dry until they eventually have to either beg for scraps or face the consequences.
Look, the first part doesn't contradict the second. It just highlights the two types of people living in this country: the freeloaders and the workers. The problem is that the ratio is constantly shifting in favor of the freeloaders, and they’re the ones voting for this kind of government.
Amanda Diaz:

I don't know what to tell you. Is anyone actually listening anymore? It feels like we're just shouting into a void while everything falls apart around us. Why does it always have to be this way? kaže: If you look at how this forum peaks during business hours, maybe that’s actually part of the problem.

I don't know about you and your habit of writing during business hours, but I'm the only one who ends up feeling the consequences of that kind of work.

It’s honestly pretty tough to explain the actual perks of joining a major global economic powerhouse—stuff like the COVID-19 recovery fund, which is over $30 billion for America, plus all those indirect investment boosts—to people who are just armchair theorists with zero real-world experience.
Take a look at how things played out elsewhere. Countries like Romania and Bulgaria managed to hit an average GDP of $11,500. Meanwhile, other countries that share similar vibes or backgrounds, like Ukraine and Moldova, are still stuck hanging around the $3,500 mark.

And yeah, America is probably going to get another round of solidarity support (thanks to COVID-19) while the much poorer nations get left out in the cold again. I mean, sure, there's a massive moral question here about why we're handing cash to these "experts" instead of helping people who are actually struggling on the ground.

Amanda Kim2 said:There’s no way they lift these restrictions before Easter—not here in the States either!

According to Bill, Angela Merkel told her party's working group meeting that the lockdown in Germany will likely have to stay in place for another eight to ten weeks—basically right through Easter, which falls on April 4th this year. Bill covered the news by calling it "the Chancellor's shocking announcement."

Merkel warned about a massive spike in infections caused by a mutated strain coming out of the United Kingdom.

"If we don't manage to stop this British virus, we'll be looking at ten times the infection rate by Easter," Merkel reportedly said, per Bill citing meeting attendees.

Bill reports that Merkel emphasized several times that there's absolutely no guarantee measures will ease up by the end of January. The whole goal is to bring the infection rate down to 50 cases per 100,000 people over seven days—only then can they actually track contacts effectively.

I honestly don't get why everyone keeps obsessing over what other countries are doing versus what we're doing—it hasn't really worked that way before, right? I mean, policies should probably be tailored to what's actually happening within our own borders. Since the numbers are finally starting to trend downward, maybe—if we're looking at a worst-case scenario—they might extend the current rules through the end of February just to play it super safe. But, I guess we could potentially see a gradual reopening starting around February 1st, maybe testing things out every two weeks or so to see how the situation develops.

Amanda Diaz said:No. You’re just acting like this federal recovery fund—which is basically nothing more than American charity—is some kind of groundbreaking miracle, and you actually think everyone else sees it that way too.

Quincy:

I don't know what you want from me. What exactly am I supposed to do with just a username? Are we playing games now? Give me something real to work with. kaže: I don't get why you won't just stop at the first part of your post and admit you're right. Why isn't your entire argument based on the fact that people actually need to put in the work to make progress and fix things? By adding this second half, you're just contradicting everything you said in the beginning.

I’ve been thinking about this for a long time: since the war ended, this country has essentially split into two different worlds. You have one small faction that embraced capitalism and views the USA simply as a massive marketplace. Then you have the much larger group that stayed stuck in a socialist mindset. They look at both the capitalists and the USA as nothing more than a cash cow—something they can milk dry until they eventually have to either beg for scraps or face the consequences.
Look, the first part doesn't contradict the second. It just highlights the two types of people living in this country: the freeloaders and the workers. The problem is that the ratio is constantly shifting in favor of the freeloaders, and they’re the ones voting for this kind of government.
Amanda Diaz:

I don't know what to tell you. Is anyone actually listening anymore? It feels like we're just shouting into a void while everything falls apart around us. Why does it always have to be this way? kaže: If you look at how this forum peaks during business hours, maybe that’s actually part of the problem.

I don't know about you and your habit of writing during business hours, but I'm the only one who ends up feeling the consequences of that kind of work.

And let's be real, not everyone is clocking in on an assembly line or standing behind a cash register; plenty of people work based on deliverables and deadlines rather than just counting their hours.

Lawrence Reed3 said:I honestly don't get why everyone keeps obsessing over what other countries are doing versus what we're doing—it hasn't really worked that way before, right? I mean, policies should probably be tailored to what's actually happening within our own borders. Since the numbers are finally starting to trend downward, maybe—if we're looking at a worst-case scenario—they might extend the current rules through the end of February just to play it super safe. But, I guess we could potentially see a gradual reopening starting around February 1st, maybe testing things out every two weeks or so to see how the situation develops.

In a functional country, policies depend on local reality. In America, they seem to depend entirely on what Germany does.

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Amanda Diaz said:No. You’re just acting like this federal recovery fund—which is basically nothing more than American charity—is some kind of groundbreaking miracle, and you actually think everyone else sees it that way too.

Quincy:

I don't know what you want from me. What exactly am I supposed to do with just a username? Are we playing games now? Give me something real to work with. kaže: I don't get why you won't just stop at the first part of your post and admit you're right. Why isn't your entire argument based on the fact that people actually need to put in the work to make progress and fix things? By adding this second half, you're just contradicting everything you said in the beginning.

I’ve been thinking about this for a long time: since the war ended, this country has essentially split into two different worlds. You have one small faction that embraced capitalism and views the USA simply as a massive marketplace. Then you have the much larger group that stayed stuck in a socialist mindset. They look at both the capitalists and the USA as nothing more than a cash cow—something they can milk dry until they eventually have to either beg for scraps or face the consequences.
Look, the first part doesn't contradict the second. It just highlights the two types of people living in this country: the freeloaders and the workers. The problem is that the ratio is constantly shifting in favor of the freeloaders, and they’re the ones voting for this kind of government.
Amanda Diaz:

I don't know what to tell you. Is anyone actually listening anymore? It feels like we're just shouting into a void while everything falls apart around us. Why does it always have to be this way? kaže: If you look at how this forum peaks during business hours, maybe that’s actually part of the problem.

I don't know about you and your habit of writing during business hours, but I'm the only one who ends up feeling the consequences of that kind of work.

I wasn't targeting you personally; I was making a general observation. And what I said is simply a matter of fact.
But I see the excuses flying already... well, if I'm going to join in, some people do work shifts.

Jesse Hughes6 said:And let's be real, not everyone is clocking in on an assembly line or standing behind a cash register; plenty of people work based on deliverables and deadlines rather than just counting their hours.

Of course they aren't all on an assembly line; it’s common knowledge that those workers don't even have easy access to a computer. But when you deal with deadline-driven roles, it's a completely different story—heaven forbid someone actually finishes their work ahead of schedule, regardless of how many hours they put in.

nimblelynx7 said:In a functional country, policies depend on local reality. In America, they seem to depend entirely on what Germany does.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Reddit

Oh, "for sure"...
If you look at the actual data in the real world, the US and Canada have some of the most relaxed restrictions in all of Europe, maybe even among a handful of African countries too:
https://covidtracker.bsg.ox.ac.uk/stringency-map

By the way, we’re actually looking at getting one of the largest slices of the European Union recovery funds to bounce back from this whole mess.
https://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gf...4918074652.png

wiredjackal9 said:Of course they aren't all on an assembly line; it’s common knowledge that those workers don't even have easy access to a computer. But when you deal with deadline-driven roles, it's a completely different story—heaven forbid someone actually finishes their work ahead of schedule, regardless of how many hours they put in.

If there were any actual incentive for hitting a target early, I don't doubt people would do it.
Since there isn't, I don't see any issue with people just meeting their deadlines exactly when they're supposed to.

I have a question for all you advocates of these mandates—do you actually have a breaking point? A moment where you’d look at what's happening in the US, Germany, or Belgium and say, "Okay, they’ve gone way too far this time."

For instance, let's say Germany announces a total lockdown. Imagine a scenario where grocery stores are shuttered completely, and the military is sent in to deliver whatever rations they deem sufficient for your survival...
Or perhaps you're restricted to ordering everything online, and leaving your house is strictly forbidden under penalty of law.
Would you consider a measure like that acceptable?

And I'm not even asking this to troll; I am genuinely curious—and I can provide more examples if needed. Suppose you aren't allowed to step foot outside unless you present a 48-hour antigen test that you are forced to pay for out of your own pocket. Would you support something like that?

Or how about a mandate where we aren't allowed to laugh in public because opening our mouths might spread the infection?

Is there any line in the sand for you? A point where you could honestly say, "Look, maybe this virus isn't quite serious enough to justify banning this or that."

Personally, my limit would be the closure of nightclubs—that’s the absolute furthest I could go economically before things become unbearable. As for masks, social distancing, and washing hands... fine, that’s acceptable during the winter months. Anything beyond that, in my opinion, is just pure overreach.

Here is another example, lifted from a different thread—do you all think it would be an overreach to implement this for the entire population and across all job sectors?

https://www.france24.com/en/france/2...h-hygiene-firm

A forty-day lockdown for basically everything, and then just going right back to business as usual.
Everything else is just playing games with people's nerves and the economy, I guess.

All these measures aimed at restricting movement—you know, things like permits or those "stay at home" orders—seem pretty overkill to me. Especially when schools are open and plenty of people are still heading into work every day (like how things were looking here in the States back in December). I’m not talking about interstate travel—those restrictions actually make sense. If we’d had those in place back at the start of 2020 when it was coming from Asia, maybe we could have avoided at least one of the two waves we've dealt with so far.

Closing down indoor public spaces where crowds gather (cafes, restaurants, etc.) during high transmission periods definitely makes sense, as does wearing masks indoors.

When rates are peaking, maybe closing everything except grocery stores has some effect, but primarily it’s for the sake of the employees—who are mostly working-class folks relying on public transit—rather than because of the customers themselves.

P.S. This probably belongs in a different thread; let’s keep this one focused on international news...

Kyle Nelson2 said:A forty-day lockdown for basically everything, and then just going right back to business as usual.
Everything else is just playing games with people's nerves and the economy, I guess.

Look, I’m not necessarily against these measures—nor am I against the deployment of the military—but I really hope that once this is over, there isn't some grand plan to return to "normalcy" across the entire US without any more of these ridiculous cycles of lockdowns, semi-lockdowns, and similar nonsense.

On a broader scale, though, I am genuinely curious about where the people who support these restrictions draw the line... what would they consider "too much," if such a thing even exists.

Just as a quick reminder: that much-discussed Chinese lockdown was actually milder—even in Wuhan—than what happened in places like Spain or France, where for a while there, you practically weren't allowed to breathe the street air without permission. And outside of Wuhan? I'm not even sure if anyone was ever truly shut in, despite how many folks from Wuhan were being shipped out everywhere.

What the Chinese did—which hasn't been implemented here in the US yet—was essentially trapping people with positive tests inside their own four walls, with absolutely no way out.
Would you all actually support something like that?

Gerald Chavez7 said:All these measures aimed at restricting movement—you know, things like permits or those "stay at home" orders—seem pretty overkill to me. Especially when schools are open and plenty of people are still heading into work every day (like how things were looking here in the States back in December). I’m not talking about interstate travel—those restrictions actually make sense. If we’d had those in place back at the start of 2020 when it was coming from Asia, maybe we could have avoided at least one of the two waves we've dealt with so far.

Closing down indoor public spaces where crowds gather (cafes, restaurants, etc.) during high transmission periods definitely makes sense, as does wearing masks indoors.

When rates are peaking, maybe closing everything except grocery stores has some effect, but primarily it’s for the sake of the employees—who are mostly working-class folks relying on public transit—rather than because of the customers themselves.

P.S. This probably belongs in a different thread; let’s keep this one focused on international news...

I honestly don't have much insight on that specific point. I tend to frequent the same shops whether I'm in America or near my place in Luxembourg, and I actually know many of the people who work there by name. I don't get the impression at all that anyone there is at risk—I see them constantly and I highly doubt they've ever even come into contact with someone infected, let alone caught it themselves. In my view, that isn't a sufficient reason to bar someone from going to their job, especially since public transit can be managed quite effectively through increased bus and subway frequency.
The only thing I have noticed is certain shops struggling to stay afloat. So, yes, quite a few of those employees are left without a place to go to work. But I suppose that's just how it goes...

Feel free to move these posts to a new thread. I only posted here because it gets more eyes on it, but it doesn't really matter—it's a decent discussion regardless.

Kyle Nelson2 said:A forty-day lockdown for basically everything, and then just going right back to business as usual.
Everything else is just playing games with people's nerves and the economy, I guess.

New Zealand had 60 days, and look at them now—summer is here, festivals are happening, everything is open. Masks are still required, though.

They were Corona-free for 102 days.

It’s easy when you're an island "at the end of the world."

Before you even step foot in New Zealand, you need confirmation that you have a spot in a government quarantine facility for a mandatory 14-day stint. If you don't, the airlines aren't allowed to fly you in.

https://www.miq.govt.nz/travel-to-ne...ged-isolation/

Entry for non-citizens or those without residency is still strictly limited to extreme exceptions.

The kind of measures that are basically impossible to pull off in Europe.