Who's going to do the dirty work in Utopia?

gentlerider7 said:But honestly, why bother with the reality check? It’s not like anyone here is actually out there trying to force some perfect paradise onto the world anyway.

I guess I was thinking about Icarus, and I just got a bit carried away with my own dramatics.

ruggedraven36 said:Basically, Peter handles my bathroom, and I'll handle his brain surgery.

Wait, hold on—where's the fairness in that? Don't you ever clean your own toilet?

Screw that kind of utopia, we've already got plenty of that 🤷

ruggedraven36 said:Basically, Peter handles my bathroom, and I'll handle his brain surgery.

And why on earth would you be performing brain surgery on someone who is perfectly healthy? 🤷
That’s a hell of a trade-off.

There we go—step by step, we’ve arrived at a brand new concept: a double coincidence of wants.

Andrew Booth29 said:And why on earth would you be performing brain surgery on someone who is perfectly healthy? 🤷
That’s a hell of a trade-off.

There we go—step by step, we’ve arrived at a brand new concept: a double coincidence of wants.

If Joe Biden's only skill is cleaning toilets, I'm starting to doubt his mental state.

Maybe we should just crack him open to see where the short circuit happened? 🤔

Joseph Bailey41 said:If Joe Biden's only skill is cleaning toilets, I'm starting to doubt his mental state.

Maybe we should just crack him open to see where the short circuit happened? 🤔

He’ll probably end up studying philosophy and cultural studies.

Andrew Booth29 said:And why on earth would you be performing brain surgery on someone who is perfectly healthy? 🤷
That’s a hell of a trade-off.

There we go—step by step, we’ve arrived at a brand new concept: a double coincidence of wants.

Or if they're sick... tell the patient to scrub your toilet before you even think about touching them with a scalpel.
It’d be a nice little safety net if Flying had a massive reserve—you know, some sort of capital made up of clean toilets to save for a "rainy day."

Harold Doyle3 said:Or if they're sick... tell the patient to scrub your toilet before you even think about touching them with a scalpel.
It’d be a nice little safety net if Flying had a massive reserve—you know, some sort of capital made up of clean toilets to save for a "rainy day."

So, what would we even call those vouchers? Squirrels, maybe? I guess Peter gets five squirrels for every Colcyte, so once he racks enough of them up, he could trade them in for a bike or maybe get brain surgery from Simple.

What does that remind me of? 🤔

A little squirrel needs two big ones 😬

Joseph Bailey41 said:If Joe Biden's only skill is cleaning toilets, I'm starting to doubt his mental state.

Maybe we should just crack him open to see where the short circuit happened? 🤔

Hands off!!
Who’s going to handle the plumbing if you go and fix him? You?

Alexander Thompson said:Wait, hold on—where's the fairness in that? Don't you ever clean your own toilet?

Screw that kind of utopia, we've already got plenty of that 🤷

I'm messing with you because your question is just plain stupid.

ruggedraven36 said:I'm messing with you because your question is just plain stupid.

The only thing stupid here was the answer.

Seriously though, how would you even split that fairly? Like, if Joe Biden cleans the toilet one week and you take the next—is he just chilling while you work, or does he end up taking over your shift anyway?

Alexander Thompson said:The only thing stupid here was the answer.

Seriously though, how would you even split that fairly? Like, if Joe Biden cleans the toilet one week and you take the next—is he just chilling while you work, or does he end up taking over your shift anyway?

They're just rolling dice.

Alexander Thompson said:The only thing stupid here was the answer.

Seriously though, how would you even split that fairly? Like, if Joe Biden cleans the toilet one week and you take the next—is he just chilling while you work, or does he end up taking over your shift anyway?

Your question is still pretty mindless—dealing with the fair distribution of grunt work is a societal issue, not something you solve between two people in a room.

ruggedraven36 said:Your question is still pretty mindless—dealing with the fair distribution of grunt work is a societal issue, not something you solve between two people in a room.

So, I guess you’ve never heard of breaking down a massive, complex issue into tiny little pieces to actually deal with it?

If you can't even wrap your head around a super simple problem, how are you planning to solve a huge one? Just by following your "gut feeling" or whatever?

But, okay, let’s zoom out to the societal level for a second. If Peter—who happens to be our guy whose only job is cleaning toilets—is working all day, what are the neurosurgeons doing while the toilets get cleaned?

Just grabbing a Budweiser and watching Star Wars?

Obviously, to someone like Peter, that kind of setup feels perfectly fair.

Alexander Thompson said:So, I guess you’ve never heard of breaking down a massive, complex issue into tiny little pieces to actually deal with it?

If you can't even wrap your head around a super simple problem, how are you planning to solve a huge one? Just by following your "gut feeling" or whatever?

But, okay, let’s zoom out to the societal level for a second. If Peter—who happens to be our guy whose only job is cleaning toilets—is working all day, what are the neurosurgeons doing while the toilets get cleaned?

Just grabbing a Budweiser and watching Star Wars?

Obviously, to someone like Peter, that kind of setup feels perfectly fair.

Ever heard of the law where quantity eventually turns into quality? A systemic societal meltdown isn't the same thing as a personal spat between two people. We aren't here to fix the latter.

Harold Doyle3 said:Hands off!!
Who’s going to handle the plumbing if you go and fix him? You?

Anne. 🤷

Alexander Thompson said:So, I guess you’ve never heard of breaking down a massive, complex issue into tiny little pieces to actually deal with it?

If you can't even wrap your head around a super simple problem, how are you planning to solve a huge one? Just by following your "gut feeling" or whatever?

But, okay, let’s zoom out to the societal level for a second. If Peter—who happens to be our guy whose only job is cleaning toilets—is working all day, what are the neurosurgeons doing while the toilets get cleaned?

Just grabbing a Budweiser and watching Star Wars?

Obviously, to someone like Peter, that kind of setup feels perfectly fair.

The whole idea behind rotation is that nobody’s primary role is scrubbing toilets—not even Peter. It means everyone takes a turn doing the dirty work. Just like a neurosurgeon isn't exactly itching to clean up a mess, nobody else wants to either—it's common sense. Any sane surgeon gets that, which is why they’ll just suck it up and do their part when it's their turn.

ruggedraven36 said:The whole idea behind rotation is that nobody’s primary role is scrubbing toilets—not even Peter. It means everyone takes a turn doing the dirty work. Just like a neurosurgeon isn't exactly itching to clean up a mess, nobody else wants to either—it's common sense. Any sane surgeon gets that, which is why they’ll just suck it up and do their part when it's their turn.

Look, for a system like that to actually work—without a neurosurgeon or Peter feeling bitter, jealous, frustrated, or straight-up furious at each other or the system itself—you need some kind of heavy-duty psychology to keep egos in check. Or you need an external enforcement system, which we all know leads to trouble. It just creates more frustration and anger, which people usually project onto outside forces instead of admitting they might be part of the problem.

Also, I'm not sure why you're brushing off the opportunity cost argument. Every single hour a neurosurgeon spends cleaning a toilet is an hour they could have spent on something much more important. Their stakes are incredibly high; lives are literally in their hands. That time spent scrubbing porcelain could be used to sharpen their medical expertise and surgical skills, which directly lowers the risk of a patient dying on the table. If someone does die, they’ve got a valid reason to point out that maybe it wouldn't have happened if they were studying instead of cleaning toilets. They'll start questioning if doing chores is really a fair way to pay back society for all the training they received.

...Talking about opportunity costs has made me realize my own opportunity costs, and honestly, I'm not sure how well I'm handling them. 🤣

ruggedraven36 said:Ever heard of the law where quantity eventually turns into quality? A systemic societal meltdown isn't the same thing as a personal spat between two people. We aren't here to fix the latter.

So, wait—are we seriously sitting here debating failed ideas from some nineteenth-century high-society hacks? You know, the ones that caused massive amounts of misery during the twentieth century before basically vanishing into thin air by the end of it?

ruggedraven36 said:The whole idea behind rotation is that nobody’s primary role is scrubbing toilets—not even Peter. It means everyone takes a turn doing the dirty work. Just like a neurosurgeon isn't exactly itching to clean up a mess, nobody else wants to either—it's common sense. Any sane surgeon gets that, which is why they’ll just suck it up and do their part when it's their turn.

But what exactly is Perry's actual job? And how can you possibly claim that Peter doesn't enjoy scrubbing toilets? Are you seriously speaking on behalf of all you neurosurgeons now?

From what I see in the real world, people without specialized skills are more than happy to pack up and head back to the homeland of some failed philosopher, where they spend their days cleaning toilets at an airport or a train station for a decent amount of acorns. 🤷

Nah, that kind of utopia is something only Peter could actually believe in. But hey, given his intellectual capacity, I guess I can't blame him for not grasping things people are talking about here, like opportunity cost. Let me break it down for you: it's basically asking if it's actually worth using a neurosurgeon's time to clean toilets. Is it worth wasting Peter's time—who is, let's be honest, a valuable community member—so he can clean a toilet once a month while spending the rest of his time just idling around?

Who, besides Peter, would think a system like that makes sense? Because, if you think about it, a system shouldn't just be fair; it actually needs to be smart too.

Andrew Booth29 said:And why on earth would you be performing brain surgery on someone who is perfectly healthy? 🤷
That’s a hell of a trade-off.

There we go—step by step, we’ve arrived at a brand new concept: a double coincidence of wants.

In a utopia, everyone’s needs are met.
Isn't that basically the whole point of a utopia?

So, if some individual has this... let's say, intense urge to operate on people's brains, I guess there should be a way to satisfy that need...?
Otherwise, maybe it isn't really a utopia at all?
And then there's the question of, say, pedophiles, or that entire circle of sociopaths and fetishists... apparently, someone would have to cater to their... well, their "needs" too... 🤔

Timothy Nelson5 said:In a utopia, everyone’s needs are met.
Isn't that basically the whole point of a utopia?

So, if some individual has this... let's say, intense urge to operate on people's brains, I guess there should be a way to satisfy that need...?
Otherwise, maybe it isn't really a utopia at all?
And then there's the question of, say, pedophiles, or that entire circle of sociopaths and fetishists... apparently, someone would have to cater to their... well, their "needs" too... 🤔

But why would there even be sociopaths in an utopia? That wouldn't exactly be much of an utopia then (even if you look at it through a realistic lens, no society actually tries to please absolutely everybody)