RH-Republic of America (Thread for the diaspora and everyone who feels the same)

Perhaps the clearest illustration of a conservative society stumbling through its own crises is Russia. A few years back, the HIV infection rates there just went off the rails. Initially, most cases were tied to drug use, but lately, we're seeing an increasing number of Russians who aren't even users. I caught a documentary recently where it was clear that many young Russians actually believe you can treat HIV with nothing more than some Tylenol. Meanwhile, the Russian Orthodox Church continues to fight against any kind of sexual education being introduced in schools.🤦
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pol...id-to-ask/amp/

Jessica Wright58 said:I feel like a lot of people just don't get one thing. I actually explained this once to the son of a high-ranking Party official—I told him straight up, look, I'm not even a believer myself. But I said, listen, that sense of morality you have, the culture you were raised in, the whole way you were shaped... that comes from a Christian society. Most people aren't even aware that Christianity is what made them who they are. It basically built our entire social fabric. The kid wasn't stupid, though—he totally got what I was saying, so he just went quiet.

I mean, what would our society, or even European societies in general, even look like if Christianity hadn't shaped everything? People just take it for granted. They assume humans are born this way and that society just naturally evolves into its current state.

If they really want to see the difference, they should go wander around Africa for a bit and see if those societies look anything like ours, or if Christianity had the same impact on how we became Europeans. Or go to the Middle East and compare their social structure to ours. I guess people just lose sight of that.

People seem to think that Western society just happens on its own—like it's some sort of natural phenomenon.

I agree with the sentiment, but that doesn't let the Church off the hook for its backward views. Just look at how many children died in Ireland because the Church stood in the way of medical progress.

Elizabeth Sanchez2 said:Actually, everything is connected. If you want to clean up society, you have to know who was working for whom. You can't rebuild institutions without knowing where the rot started. The Poles did what needed to be done. Let's just admit they were smarter and more capable instead of constantly hunting for excuses. Even Catholicism doesn't hold them back from making reforms.

That last sentence is the perfect example of why the theory about a "stagnant Catholic society" being an obstacle to progress is total nonsense.

It’s the same old caricature you see from columnists in the local media, chewing on the same tired narrative for thirty years. It’s always the same: "Why do we need schools? We don't need education. Just dump all the money into churches." They act like the church is fundamentally opposed to a society that prioritizes learning.

But then you look at the facts, and almost every school and university was founded by the Catholic Church.

And do you really think such a verifiable fact will stop these cheap manipulators from blowing that stale, stinking smoke right back into the public's face?

Of course they won't.

Arthur Lopez14 said:Perhaps the clearest illustration of a conservative society stumbling through its own crises is Russia. A few years back, the HIV infection rates there just went off the rails. Initially, most cases were tied to drug use, but lately, we're seeing an increasing number of Russians who aren't even users. I caught a documentary recently where it was clear that many young Russians actually believe you can treat HIV with nothing more than some Tylenol. Meanwhile, the Russian Orthodox Church continues to fight against any kind of sexual education being introduced in schools.🤦
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pol...id-to-ask/amp/

I always figured communism was what basically wiped out Christianity in Russia.

Anyway, we should probably look at those "advanced" liberal and "progressive" societies in the West and compare their HIV percentages to "conservative" people in places like America or Poland. 🍿

Elizabeth Sanchez2 said:I agree with the sentiment, but that doesn't let the Church off the hook for its backward views. Just look at how many children died in Ireland because the Church stood in the way of medical progress.

I can't speak for Ireland, I guess. But from what I know, the Church here in America isn't exactly fighting against medicine, treatments, or drugs... they aren't out there protesting surgeries or anything like that.

Jessica Wright58 said:I can't speak for Ireland, I guess. But from what I know, the Church here in America isn't exactly fighting against medicine, treatments, or drugs... they aren't out there protesting surgeries or anything like that.

In Ireland, they were fighting that battle over a hundred years ago. They finally shook off the church's influence and moved forward with reforms. Before that, people were literally starving to death. I actually remember a specific lecture from college about the situation in Ireland.

Elizabeth Sanchez2 said:In Ireland, they were fighting that battle over a hundred years ago. They finally shook off the church's influence and moved forward with reforms. Before that, people were literally starving to death. I actually remember a specific lecture from college about the situation in Ireland.

They were starving because of the British. They were basically under their thumb until maybe the 50s, or whenever Ireland finally stood on its own as a country.

Elizabeth Sanchez2 said:I agree with the sentiment, but that doesn't let the Church off the hook for its backward views. Just look at how many children died in Ireland because the Church stood in the way of medical progress.

The Church was against medicine? That's funny, considering they were the ones founding medical schools all over the globe.

I don't really know what kind of influence the Church has over in Ireland or Mexico.
In America, it barely has any impact—and if it does, I’d say it’s more positive than the critics want you to believe.
The Church runs Caritas, for one. For older folks, going to church provides some actual comfort.
So, what—am I supposed to hate my elderly neighbors just because they head to service on Sundays?
Is that what we're calling "tolerance" now? Hating people for being religious?
It seems like that's how things work today—you're considered progressive and tolerant only if you despise anyone who steps foot in a church.
I honestly don't get it. You've got this poor old lady who can barely walk, living all alone, just trying to make it to church to be around other ladies and say a quick prayer to God... is she somehow a threat to me? Should I be tripping her on her way there?

Look, I'm not saying you're like that.
But this whole "progressive," "tolerant" mindset is pretty much the trademark of your typical atheist critic of the Church.
It just feels like pure, deep-seated resentment.

Jessica Wright58 said:They were starving because of the British. They were basically under their thumb until maybe the 50s, or whenever Ireland finally stood on its own as a country.

The famine happened because the potato crops failed, not because of the church.

It’s like how hundreds of thousands of Dalmatians fled to South America because of the phylloxera blight.

There's zero logic behind this kind of baseless
talking.

Edward Chavez4 said:The Church was against medicine? That's funny, considering they were the ones founding medical schools all over the globe.

😁

So how can you people who hate Christianity claim the Church was against medicine and education?

If I recall correctly, the Church in America opened the first university—plus, nuns basically acted as nurses and took care of the sick.

But according to some folks, it’s like the Church was totally against schooling and medicine.
Maybe that happened somewhere else... maybe in Orthodox countries. Not here, I guess.

Edward Chavez4 said:The famine happened because the potato crops failed, not because of the church.

It’s like how hundreds of thousands of Dalmatians fled to South America because of the phylloxera blight.

There's zero logic behind this kind of baseless
talking.

Look, maybe in Orthodox countries the Church fought against schooling or medicine. So, if people think that's how it works for us Orthodox folks, they might assume it's the same for Catholics too. I guess.

Back then, churches in California were packed, and honestly, they still are today.

Jessica Wright58 said:😁

So how can you people who hate Christianity claim the Church was against medicine and education?

If I recall correctly, the Church in America opened the first university—plus, nuns basically acted as nurses and took care of the sick.

But according to some folks, it’s like the Church was totally against schooling and medicine.
Maybe that happened somewhere else... maybe in Orthodox countries. Not here, I guess.

Well, in Ireland, they absolutely were. Seriously—I learned this back in college during my "National Economy" course. We went over case studies from all sorts of countries. I remember specifically learning that the Church was a massive drag on progress in Ireland.

Long story short. I don't go to church and I’m not a believer—not by a long shot. But I don't have any beef with people who do. Look, you'll find thieves among priests just like you'll find them anywhere else in society. Sure, there are arrogant ones and stupid ones too. And honestly, it doesn't bother me when I see people out jogging along the riverwalk—even if they look a little "off" sometimes. But I'll say it again. The people constantly preaching about being progressive or tolerant... they're usually the most intolerant ones out there. They're the ones carrying the hate. If I told some old lady she couldn't go to church? What's even the point? Why should I care if someone wants to hit a service or go for a run by the water? Who am I to tell anyone what to do? It doesn't affect me. As an atheist, or just someone who stays away from church, it's a non-issue. I barely even notice religious people—not because I'm ignoring them, but just because it's all normal to me. I mean, how much of an intolerant jerk would I have to be to try and stop someone from going to church? And what kind of reason could I possibly have to hate those people or that institution? I can't find one. Unless I'm a total psychopath, I guess. My parents don't go to church either. Well, my dad probably wouldn't, but I think my mom—since she's getting older—is becoming more of a believer.

And for those of you who absolutely loathe the church... if your parents or grandparents are regular attendees, go ahead. Try to "tolerantly" stop them. Be real liberal and progressive about it... do everything in your power to make sure they stay away from church. I bet they'd probably end up healthier and happier that way. And hey, at least you'll get that sweet confirmation that you were right after you spend all that "progressive" energy lecturing your own family against the church.

Edward Chavez4 said:This isn't about being progressive; it's just about basic decency.

And besides, I wasn't asking you, and you aren't even an American.

What exactly makes an American "progressive"? What are you actually doing or standing for to earn that fancy title?

Anyway, the question wasn't meant for you.

Wow, what a highly progressive and moral response! So, if I'm not an American, should I just shut up and get lost?
Now I’m genuinely wondering—am I a Homo sapiens, or are you some kind of Neanderthal?😁
Ever since you lot traded your red flags for black ones, there hasn't been any progressivism left, just pure regressive backwardness! If you have the time, try reading Stendhal. It's a classic! *The Red and the Black*. Money, sex, and the Church! Or Boccaccio is even better! Women, sex, and monks! Now that was progressive for its time! It's like looking at a modern version of the Republican Party with a pixelated filter. Honestly, nationality doesn't have much to do with how smart or foolish someone is, you know?👍

Elizabeth Sanchez2 said:Well, in Ireland, they absolutely were. Seriously—I learned this back in college during my "National Economy" course. We went over case studies from all sorts of countries. I remember specifically learning that the Church was a massive drag on progress in Ireland.

I learned a bunch of stuff in school too. Especially History and WWII, so I know most of that is just textbook filler. I don't know about Ireland specifically, though. Maybe what you're saying is right. But I'd never just claim something is a fact just because a teacher told me in class—I'd actually sit down and think about it, maybe dig around to see if it holds up.

Jessica Wright58 said:Long story short. I don't go to church and I’m not a believer—not by a long shot. But I don't have any beef with people who do. Look, you'll find thieves among priests just like you'll find them anywhere else in society. Sure, there are arrogant ones and stupid ones too. And honestly, it doesn't bother me when I see people out jogging along the riverwalk—even if they look a little "off" sometimes. But I'll say it again. The people constantly preaching about being progressive or tolerant... they're usually the most intolerant ones out there. They're the ones carrying the hate. If I told some old lady she couldn't go to church? What's even the point? Why should I care if someone wants to hit a service or go for a run by the water? Who am I to tell anyone what to do? It doesn't affect me. As an atheist, or just someone who stays away from church, it's a non-issue. I barely even notice religious people—not because I'm ignoring them, but just because it's all normal to me. I mean, how much of an intolerant jerk would I have to be to try and stop someone from going to church? And what kind of reason could I possibly have to hate those people or that institution? I can't find one. Unless I'm a total psychopath, I guess. My parents don't go to church either. Well, my dad probably wouldn't, but I think my mom—since she's getting older—is becoming more of a believer.

And for those of you who absolutely loathe the church... if your parents or grandparents are regular attendees, go ahead. Try to "tolerantly" stop them. Be real liberal and progressive about it... do everything in your power to make sure they stay away from church. I bet they'd probably end up healthier and happier that way. And hey, at least you'll get that sweet confirmation that you were right after you spend all that "progressive" energy lecturing your own family against the church.

Good grief, who actually hates people for going to church? Are we all suddenly haters just because we don't go and think the Church is holding us back? You've got your own biases here.

Jessica Wright58 said:I can't speak for Ireland, I guess. But from what I know, the Church here in America isn't exactly fighting against medicine, treatments, or drugs... they aren't out there protesting surgeries or anything like that.

Against abortion? Well, that's a surgical procedure too!🙂 My wife actually had one around age 30!
Back during the days of America, most of those patients came from places like Rijeka or Istria. Why was that? Was it just to keep abortions under wraps? Actually, it was much more than that—it was about carrying a child to term and then bringing them home safely! There was even an instance where a five-pound tuna was left forgotten somewhere—the smell reached all the way to heaven!😁

If you want to find a blueprint for America, look at Ireland. They have a comparable population and a shared historical trajectory. Plus, much like how Chicago serves as the central hub for everything here, Dublin acts as the beating heart of Ireland, expanding at a much faster clip than the rest of the country. The Catholic Church played a massive role there, too—given that the English and the Protestant settlers up north shaped their social fabric. It’s a similar dynamic to what we've faced in America, though our friction was primarily centered on the issues involving the Mexicans and their Orthodox faith.

Edward Chavez4 said:This isn't about being progressive; it's just about basic decency.

And besides, I wasn't asking you, and you aren't even an American.

What exactly makes an American "progressive"? What are you actually doing or standing for to earn that fancy title?

Anyway, the question wasn't meant for you.

That's basically what's been happening lately—check the intro link.
Kids nowadays think calling someone "modern" is the way to go instead of saying they're regressive or conservative.
The internet really shapes how they see things. They think differently.

It started with the so-called Millennials, but these new filers are straight-up Borg.