Curfew restrictions: Is it legal to leave your house?

Matthew Jackson2 said:Well, look at that, even the Civil Protection Headquarters has officially weighed in—apparently, tilling fields for private individuals is now considered a legitimate reason to get an e-Passport:

Adam Collins4 - you’re acting more devout than the Pope with all that insistence that tending to a vineyard isn't essential.

The Ministry of Agriculture is actually putting in some effort here—I'm seeing improvements even at my local level. Things look much better than they did just a few days ago, back when certain Facebook groups, like the ones over in a city like San Francisco, were trying to hawk eggs at slightly inflated prices of $0.67.

Back when the earthquake hit the US, people were out in the streets, and we didn't see a massive spike in infection rates. It just goes to show—these kinds of heavy-handed restrictions weren't really necessary. Now they’re busy building apps just to issue e-Passports. Clearly, they've got plenty of extra time on their hands.

Adam Collins4 said:Look, I’m sticking to my guns on this one...

The whole point of a vineyard is the wine... and wine? Not exactly essential.

If you just want grapes to snack on, go plant a little blueberry bush next to the house... and enjoy.

There's a massive difference between that and a garden where you're planting things to actually survive on later—especially in times like these...

Just read the interpretation from the Civil Protection Headquarters.

Since land cultivation—that is, agricultural work—can fall under category f), which covers "traveling to and from work if the task is essential and cannot be performed from home," as well as category e), regarding "purchasing food and basic necessities" as outlined in the Decision, instructions are being issued to Civil Protection Headquarters to issue passes to individuals requesting them for the purpose of land cultivation or performing agricultural work outside their area of residence.

The Headquarters doesn't want to, nor can they, get bogged down in whether you're making wine or just snacking on grapes; it's like nobody ever asks if you're turning your potatoes into mashed potatoes, fries, or vodka (unless you have to report alcohol production to the Tax Administration). In a worst-case scenario, you could even turn wine into high-proof spirits to create disinfectant, which is actually essential.

And here you are, acting all high and mighty, being more sanctimonious than the Pope himself, basically telling a man to go plant some vines in his front yard and wait years for the first harvest while his vineyard in another county completely rots away and becomes a breeding ground for pests. Absolute genius!

silverwalker27 said:This residency registration law is just plain stupid—if I’m the kind of guy who spends every night at a different girl's place in a different coastal city or staying in hotels, what does the government actually care about? 😁They need an address so they know where to tax me and where to send court summonses—anything beyond that is just meddling. The whole thing is pointless; they can't even get a handle on voter numbers or the quorum needed for a referendum, yet they're so obsessed with making our lives difficult.

Look, the government doesn't care if you're hooking up at a different spot every single night, but if you stay at the same place for more than 15 days, you're supposed to report that change of residence.

nimbleharbor10 said:Your comment would actually hold water if we weren't dealing with the fact that all these Civil Protection Headquarters are systematically overstepping their legal authority. If we lived in a country where the law actually meant something, those who strip citizens of rights guaranteed by the Constitution would be facing criminal prosecution.

I honestly don't know if they're overstepping; I haven't run into anyone like that personally.
And who’s saying they’re violating Constitution-guaranteed rights? One judge's opinion isn't the official stance of the Supreme Court. The Court could easily reach a conclusion that's the exact opposite of what that one judge thinks, and his view would just be recorded as a dissenting opinion.

Bryan Taylor6 said:Sure, but we're talking about the state level, and one state like our America...

Well, goodness gracious, apparently people aren't even allowed to leave their houses anymore. Did you miss that video from a few days ago where the mayor was yelling at some guy just for stepping out a little too far? The mayor starts ranting at him like, "Go home or I'll call a police officer!"

copperwolf16 said:There have been measures in place in Canada since yesterday, though from what I've gathered, they aren't handing out fines or demanding formal applications to local town councils; instead, a police officer might just give you a warning and send you on your way if they see you're heading to another municipality for something unnecessary, like a day trip.
In Mexico, the curfew lasts about half a day...

Generally speaking, almost everyone has introduced some sort of restriction on movement, which doesn't bother me personally. However, in our specific situation, one can clearly see the absurdity of these local governments—where I am far more privileged in a major hub like Los Angeles than someone would be in a small rural town, for instance. Furthermore, likely due to limited capacity, they have essentially abdicated the responsibility of issuing permits to local authorities who lack uniform criteria and a standardized approach to their work.
Therefore, if they have decided to limit one of our fundamental freedoms—the freedom of movement—due to an exceptional situation, they could have at least implemented it uniformly for everyone.

I don't want to comment on Germany; I saw a report where a patrol in some industrial town was walking down the street, checking in on people in their yards, asking how they were doing, if they needed anything, or how they were holding up during this period. We, however, possess a different mindset—whether it's a sheriff, a local deputy, or a beat cop, I fear it's all part of the same collective mentality.

North Korea has always had travel bans; you simply cannot leave your city without a permit.

Even here, the cop will just turn you around and won't let you pass. It's not like they're going to beat you with a baton, for crying out loud.🙄
I’m just curious—out of everyone here debating whether this whole thing is working or not, how many of you actually hold an e-Passport and travel daily? I want to know what it’s actually like on the ground.
For instance, I’ve been commuting out of the city every single day for a week now for work. I have my e-Passport, and honestly, not once has a Police officer pulled me over on the way back, even when I was driving through in the afternoon, late at night, or early morning. Personally, I think it's all a bit sloppy.

Bryan Taylor6 said:I've been telling you all along that we probably already have herd immunity here... basically, many people have had Corona without even knowing it because it passed like a common flu or a virus. We had that massive festival in Rijeka with tons of Italians and Chinese tourists, and zero Corona cases. But of course, we'd need to test healthy people for antibodies, but nobody wants to do that... because it costs money. It’s much easier to play dictator and tell people they can't move around... 3.1 miles in some small towns there are only 5,000 people, but in the City of Chicago, 800,000 people are just doing whatever they want...

What about the cashiers? They're all healthy, so how's that possible?
That's because they're always on the front lines of any infection; they were among the first to deal with Corona, and now they're healthy.

If only people would actually think for a second...

People claiming everyone is healthy? How can you possibly know that? Do you visit them regularly or something?
Or do you really believe a major retail chain would ever go public with news like that? If one of our cashiers tested positive, there's a good chance others on the same shift did too.
That would be a PR nightmare for them. Something they'd definitely want to avoid.
Fair point, though—sometimes we really need to use our heads.

On another note, Spar was posting ads looking for new sales associates just two or three days ago. It makes me wonder why and how they need more staff when their operating hours have been slashed by a third. It’s a mystery.
Something to chew on.

James Phillips92 said:Back when the earthquake hit the US, people were out in the streets, and we didn't see a massive spike in infection rates. It just goes to show—these kinds of heavy-handed restrictions weren't really necessary. Now they’re busy building apps just to issue e-Passports. Clearly, they've got plenty of extra time on their hands.

So, if nearly 80 new cases a day is considered a negligible number, I guess they should just let us out to speed things up a bit, right?

Tomorrow (Wednesday), Minister of Administration Ivan Malenica is rolling out this new "e-Passport" service through the Service sharing center. It’s basically going to link up the Ministry of the Interior, the Tax Administration, the Social Security Administration, the healthcare system, and Civil Protection.

According to the Ministry of Administration, this e-Passport thing is meant to give everyone one single spot to access issued passes. The idea is to cut down on people abusing the system and make tracking those passes way more efficient.

They also mentioned it'll help them track down anyone trying to dodge self-isolation rules.

Minister Malenica is set to present the e-Passport at a press conference over at the Government headquarters.

How did we even end up with this travel ban? It happened because everyone from the City of Los Angeles—who were facing quarantine—massively fled to the islands, the coasts, or out toward the Midwest... There was Corona in LA. Everywhere else, there wasn't.

But seriously, what kind of logic is behind a ban that stays in effect when there are active cases in every single state?

And get this—it’s being applied at the municipal level. Honestly, it's enough to make you laugh.
The City of Los Angeles isn't divided into municipalities like this. Other states are divided into municipalities.

Up until now, they've made more than a few decent moves. But with this? They really stepped in it. It's just nonsense piled on top of more nonsense. Or am I missing something here?

The total digital surveillance of citizens

Tyler Ruiz502 said:How did we even end up with this travel ban? It happened because everyone from the City of Los Angeles—who were facing quarantine—massively fled to the islands, the coasts, or out toward the Midwest... There was Corona in LA. Everywhere else, there wasn't.

But seriously, what kind of logic is behind a ban that stays in effect when there are active cases in every single state?

And get this—it’s being applied at the municipal level. Honestly, it's enough to make you laugh.
The City of Los Angeles isn't divided into municipalities like this. Other states are divided into municipalities.

Up until now, they've made more than a few decent moves. But with this? They really stepped in it. It's just nonsense piled on top of more nonsense. Or am I missing something here?

It really was

-Stipe

hollowmason64 said:What does that even have to do with anything? Why does the mileage of moving locations matter, and what role does distance play in whether someone gets infected?
And how on earth could the police know that everyone in the place she's coming from is uninfected? Are they supposed to go door-to-door checking every single person in every town people travel from?
There's a good chance the police won't even pull her over when she enters the City of Chicago, but if they do, she'll end up being handed an order for mandatory isolation.

Is this the logic Johnson is using? It's funny how people with that mindset, once they actually get sick, don't try to build immunity at home—they immediately start whining for a doctor.

She should just register through the e-visitor system and there won't be any trouble.
Honestly, it's pretty funny how people don't follow laws like this one, which requires reporting a change of residence, thinking, "Who cares, nobody actually does this, why does it matter?" and then when their own negligence and failure to respect the law comes back to bite them, suddenly everyone else is to blame.

So you live in NYC?

If his girlfriend registers through the e-Passport, there won't be an issue.
Otherwise, I love how nobody follows laws like this one requiring you to report a change of residence. It's always "whatever, nobody else does it, who cares," but then when their own failure to follow the law comes back to haunt them, suddenly everyone else is to blame.

hollowmason64 said:Look, the government doesn't care if you're hooking up at a different spot every single night, but if you stay at the same place for more than 15 days, you're supposed to report that change of residence.

I honestly don't know if they're overstepping; I haven't run into anyone like that personally.
And who’s saying they’re violating Constitution-guaranteed rights? One judge's opinion isn't the official stance of the Supreme Court. The Court could easily reach a conclusion that's the exact opposite of what that one judge thinks, and his view would just be recorded as a dissenting opinion.

Well, goodness gracious, apparently people aren't even allowed to leave their houses anymore. Did you miss that video from a few days ago where the mayor was yelling at some guy just for stepping out a little too far? The mayor starts ranting at him like, "Go home or I'll call a police officer!"

Even here, the cop will just turn you around and won't let you pass. It's not like they're going to beat you with a baton, for crying out loud.🙄
I’m just curious—out of everyone here debating whether this whole thing is working or not, how many of you actually hold an e-Passport and travel daily? I want to know what it’s actually like on the ground.
For instance, I’ve been commuting out of the city every single day for a week now for work. I have my e-Passport, and honestly, not once has a Police officer pulled me over on the way back, even when I was driving through in the afternoon, late at night, or early morning. Personally, I think it's all a bit sloppy.

People claiming everyone is healthy? How can you possibly know that? Do you visit them regularly or something?
Or do you really believe a major retail chain would ever go public with news like that? If one of our cashiers tested positive, there's a good chance others on the same shift did too.
That would be a PR nightmare for them. Something they'd definitely want to avoid.
Fair point, though—sometimes we really need to use our heads.

On another note, Spar was posting ads looking for new sales associates just two or three days ago. It makes me wonder why and how they need more staff when their operating hours have been slashed by a third. It’s a mystery.
Something to chew on.

So, if nearly 80 new cases a day is considered a negligible number, I guess they should just let us out to speed things up a bit, right?

You're a lawyer, aren't you? It’s not 15 days, it’s 3 months.

I don't know if they're overstepping their authority; I haven't dealt with people like that before.
And who says they're violating rights guaranteed by the Constitution? One judge's opinion isn't the standing of the Supreme Court. The Court could easily rule the exact opposite of that one judge, and his opinion would just be noted as a dissent.

If you don't know, why are you commenting? Here, read this:

I'm just curious—out of all of you claiming to know how things should or shouldn't work, how many actually have a pass and travel daily to know how it really looks in practice?
For instance, I've been traveling out of the city every single day for a week because of work. I have my pass, and not once has a Police officer pulled me over on the way back, whether it was afternoon, evening, or morning. It feels pretty sloppy to me personally.

Like I said, you're probably from NYC. I'd love to see you living somewhere like rural Nebraska; I bet you wouldn't be singing the same tunes. No way.

hollowmason64 said:Look, the government doesn't care if you're hooking up at a different spot every single night, but if you stay at the same place for more than 15 days, you're supposed to report that change of residence.

I honestly don't know if they're overstepping; I haven't run into anyone like that personally.
And who’s saying they’re violating Constitution-guaranteed rights? One judge's opinion isn't the official stance of the Supreme Court. The Court could easily reach a conclusion that's the exact opposite of what that one judge thinks, and his view would just be recorded as a dissenting opinion.

Well, goodness gracious, apparently people aren't even allowed to leave their houses anymore. Did you miss that video from a few days ago where the mayor was yelling at some guy just for stepping out a little too far? The mayor starts ranting at him like, "Go home or I'll call a police officer!"

Even here, the cop will just turn you around and won't let you pass. It's not like they're going to beat you with a baton, for crying out loud.🙄
I’m just curious—out of everyone here debating whether this whole thing is working or not, how many of you actually hold an e-Passport and travel daily? I want to know what it’s actually like on the ground.
For instance, I’ve been commuting out of the city every single day for a week now for work. I have my e-Passport, and honestly, not once has a Police officer pulled me over on the way back, even when I was driving through in the afternoon, late at night, or early morning. Personally, I think it's all a bit sloppy.

People claiming everyone is healthy? How can you possibly know that? Do you visit them regularly or something?
Or do you really believe a major retail chain would ever go public with news like that? If one of our cashiers tested positive, there's a good chance others on the same shift did too.
That would be a PR nightmare for them. Something they'd definitely want to avoid.
Fair point, though—sometimes we really need to use our heads.

On another note, Spar was posting ads looking for new sales associates just two or three days ago. It makes me wonder why and how they need more staff when their operating hours have been slashed by a third. It’s a mystery.
Something to chew on.

So, if nearly 80 new cases a day is considered a negligible number, I guess they should just let us out to speed things up a bit, right?

Hmm, I'm not really a fan of this law, I guess.

-Stipe

briskjackal5 said:It really was

-Stipe

Everyone knows those guys from Murter are hardcore skiers; he spent three months skiing out in Colorado...😁

Typical North American mindset...
What they’re doing over in Germany or Canada... Honestly, looking at this forum, it seems like a tiny fraction of you people have actually learned anything about fighting a virus. It’s pathetic, seriously...
Civil rights, fancy titles... it's all just hot air.
I’ve been stuck in quarantine for a month now. I only head out if I absolutely have to (making sure I've got my e-Passport stuffed in my pocket), and luckily my company is one of those ones they HAD to shut down...
And when I say luckily, I don't mean for my own sake—because sitting around the house with nothing to do is enough to make you want to end it all—I mean for the older folks around me. I'm certain I won't catch this thing and pass it on to them. In my city, four people have already died and over forty are infected. If you wander out without a damn good reason, you're looking at fines between $400 and $3,000, or even up to 18 months in prison. Those are the kinds of rules we need to enforce in EVERY single infection zone. These half-baked measures (like what they're doing in places like Mexico or similar) just help the virus spread, which overwhelms the ICU wards, which infects the medical staff, which leads to...
Maybe some of you should actually think about what I wrote here...

hollowmason64 said:Look, the government doesn't care if you're hooking up at a different spot every single night, but if you stay at the same place for more than 15 days, you're supposed to report that change of residence.

I honestly don't know if they're overstepping; I haven't run into anyone like that personally.
And who’s saying they’re violating Constitution-guaranteed rights? One judge's opinion isn't the official stance of the Supreme Court. The Court could easily reach a conclusion that's the exact opposite of what that one judge thinks, and his view would just be recorded as a dissenting opinion.

Well, goodness gracious, apparently people aren't even allowed to leave their houses anymore. Did you miss that video from a few days ago where the mayor was yelling at some guy just for stepping out a little too far? The mayor starts ranting at him like, "Go home or I'll call a police officer!"

Even here, the cop will just turn you around and won't let you pass. It's not like they're going to beat you with a baton, for crying out loud.🙄
I’m just curious—out of everyone here debating whether this whole thing is working or not, how many of you actually hold an e-Passport and travel daily? I want to know what it’s actually like on the ground.
For instance, I’ve been commuting out of the city every single day for a week now for work. I have my e-Passport, and honestly, not once has a Police officer pulled me over on the way back, even when I was driving through in the afternoon, late at night, or early morning. Personally, I think it's all a bit sloppy.

People claiming everyone is healthy? How can you possibly know that? Do you visit them regularly or something?
Or do you really believe a major retail chain would ever go public with news like that? If one of our cashiers tested positive, there's a good chance others on the same shift did too.
That would be a PR nightmare for them. Something they'd definitely want to avoid.
Fair point, though—sometimes we really need to use our heads.

On another note, Spar was posting ads looking for new sales associates just two or three days ago. It makes me wonder why and how they need more staff when their operating hours have been slashed by a third. It’s a mystery.
Something to chew on.

So, if nearly 80 new cases a day is considered a negligible number, I guess they should just let us out to speed things up a bit, right?

So what if they're asking? Even the police are looking for 750 people, so what is that supposed to tell us?
On the other hand, wouldn't it be a good idea for hospitals to ask infected people what kind of jobs they have? Then, if there aren't any infected cashiers, maybe we can actually think about something...

nimbleharbor10 said:Your comment would actually hold water if we weren't dealing with the fact that all these Civil Protection Headquarters are systematically overstepping their legal authority. If we lived in a country where the law actually meant something, those who strip citizens of rights guaranteed by the Constitution would be facing criminal prosecution.

Well, they absolutely should be. This isn't some joke. Given what the folks at Civil Protection are doing, anyone involved should probably be looking at a year in prison for every single day they misbehave.

The mandate should have been strictly limited to those actually in quarantine who were breaking the rules. There's no reason to lock down 4 million people just because of 800 idiots refusing to stay home.

rustywalker42 said:So you live in NYC?

If his girlfriend registers through the e-Passport, there won't be an issue.
Otherwise, I love how nobody follows laws like this one requiring you to report a change of residence. It's always "whatever, nobody else does it, who cares," but then when their own failure to follow the law comes back to haunt them, suddenly everyone else is to blame.

You're a lawyer, aren't you? It’s not 15 days, it’s 3 months.

I don't know if they're overstepping their authority; I haven't dealt with people like that before.
And who says they're violating rights guaranteed by the Constitution? One judge's opinion isn't the standing of the Supreme Court. The Court could easily rule the exact opposite of that one judge, and his opinion would just be noted as a dissent.

If you don't know, why are you commenting? Here, read this:

I'm just curious—out of all of you claiming to know how things should or shouldn't work, how many actually have a pass and travel daily to know how it really looks in practice?
For instance, I've been traveling out of the city every single day for a week because of work. I have my pass, and not once has a Police officer pulled me over on the way back, whether it was afternoon, evening, or morning. It feels pretty sloppy to me personally.

Like I said, you're probably from NYC. I'd love to see you living somewhere like rural Nebraska; I bet you wouldn't be singing the same tunes. No way.

Fifteen days. https://www.law.com/statutes/residency-act
Your issue is that you aren't distinguishing between residency and domicile.

If you don't know the answer, why are you weighing in? Here, take this and give it a read:

http://www.legalinfo.gov/DailyContent/Article.aspx?id=41073

Once again—that was just one judge's opinion, not the official ruling of the Supreme Court.
And once more, your problem is failing to understand the difference between a single dissenting opinion and an actual Supreme Court ruling that carries legal weight (or lack thereof).

Like I said, you probably grew up in a big city like New York. I’d love to see you living out in rural Wyoming; I bet you wouldn't be singing those same songs. No way.

You don't live in Italy either, because if you did, you certainly wouldn't be singing the same song. What kind of argument is that?

briskjackal5 said:Hmm, I'm not really a fan of this law, I guess.

-Stipe

What's wrong with it? That sounds like a convenient excuse when you just want to get rid of a piece of property.😬

Melissa Phillips4 said:The mandate should have been strictly limited to those actually in quarantine who were breaking the rules. There's no reason to lock down 4 million people just because of 800 idiots refusing to stay home.

1000%, yeah, I agree...

The e-passport is going to be linked up with the Ministry of the Interior, Civil Protection, the IRS, Social Security... just wait until they link everything to phone tracking—we’ll turn into a total fascist wasteland. For instance, what were you actually doing at your cabin last week working the farm? Run a small business? Better write an explanation to the IRS... Or why did you show up at the office on Saturday if your hours are strictly Monday through Friday? Oh, you just stopped by to tidy some paperwork because you couldn't make it during the week? Here, have an e-ticket for illegal overtime work... Have a lovely day...☕

When you hand modern technology over to those North American-communist zombies... there are no limits.☕

hollowmason64 said:Fifteen days. https://www.law.com/statutes/residency-act
Your issue is that you aren't distinguishing between residency and domicile.

If you don't know the answer, why are you weighing in? Here, take this and give it a read:

http://www.legalinfo.gov/DailyContent/Article.aspx?id=41073

Once again—that was just one judge's opinion, not the official ruling of the Supreme Court.
And once more, your problem is failing to understand the difference between a single dissenting opinion and an actual Supreme Court ruling that carries legal weight (or lack thereof).

Like I said, you probably grew up in a big city like New York. I’d love to see you living out in rural Wyoming; I bet you wouldn't be singing those same songs. No way.

You don't live in Italy either, because if you did, you certainly wouldn't be singing the same song. What kind of argument is that?

What's wrong with it? That sounds like a convenient excuse when you just want to get rid of a piece of property.😬

So when will we hear the Supreme Court's actual stance? It's been 10 days and they're staying silent like nothing happened... and honestly, neither are the top politicians. Turns out Civil Protection is the biggest player in the country.😁

If you actually believe things will turn around by the end of the year, stay happy, I guess. The Supreme Court usually stays dead silent whenever a scandal breaks out. During a crisis like this? They’ll be quiet as a grave. And honestly, they should be. Why would they want to get tangled up in this mess?
I seriously doubt this judge would even step up to the mic if he had any allies left on the bench. Seems to me his colleagues totally blew him off, so now he’s just venting to anyone willing to listen.