Turkey - TR

Lagging behind? How exactly?

Technologically speaking, they’re among the most advanced in all of Europe, and honestly, probably even in Asia.

rowdytrucker3 said:Lagging behind? How exactly?

Technologically speaking, they’re among the most advanced in all of Europe, and honestly, probably even in Asia.

As long as there's a demand for cheap labor...

feralcanyon73 said:Turkey is honestly such a backward country that’s slowly morphing into this total Islamist-fascist farce.

If you ask me, I fail to see any meaningful distinction between Erdogan’s Turkey and the Putin-led Russia that you seem so fond of.

Zachary Reyes6 said:Did Greece secure that island through a peace treaty after World War II? They did. So, what is there even to discuss? If Turkey wants to try and redraw borders, they can go ahead and challenge the treaty if they feel like it.

The European Union's only interest here is backing Greece—plain and simple. We are talking about massive gas reserves. The more of that fuel stays within the Union's borders, the better. It will be the one reliable source Europe can count on without having to rely on Russia or some various Middle Eastern satrapies.

The European Union doesn't have the foreign policy muscle to put any real pressure on Turkey.
Greece loses these islands, the EU throws out some sanctions that half their own members don't even take seriously, and that's basically it. Nothing.

The EU is a total joke when it comes to foreign policy. Even the way they handle Mexico is embarrassing.

Richard Wilson4 said:The European Union doesn't have the foreign policy muscle to put any real pressure on Turkey.
Greece loses these islands, the EU throws out some sanctions that half their own members don't even take seriously, and that's basically it. Nothing.

The EU is a total joke when it comes to foreign policy. Even the way they handle Mexico is embarrassing.

I guess that's why they can't even travel without visas.

William Marshal said:What do you mean by "losing"?
If Turkey attacks Greece and takes those islands, NATO has to step in. If they don't, the whole "defense" alliance basically falls apart...

Turkey is way more important to the USA within NATO than anyone else. Nobody else even matters.

Richard Wilson4 said:Turkey is way more important to the USA within NATO than anyone else. Nobody else even matters.

Once these elections wrap up, the US simply won't wield the same level of influence it once did. It isn't merely a matter of Trump or Biden; it is the fact that the nation is so profoundly fractured—perhaps even more so moving forward—that its global reach is fundamentally compromised. As for the EU, I find it hard to believe they will allow themselves to remain passive indefinitely.
The real headache for the EU is this long-standing Islamophobia that has been simmering in Europe for ages, though it has certainly reached a boiling point lately for very specific reasons. Either Merkel and Macron step up with an appropriate response to Turkey, or we might see Le Pen and Björn Höcke take the lead instead.

Richard Wilson4 said:The European Union doesn't have the foreign policy muscle to put any real pressure on Turkey.
Greece loses these islands, the EU throws out some sanctions that half their own members don't even take seriously, and that's basically it. Nothing.

The EU is a total joke when it comes to foreign policy. Even the way they handle Mexico is embarrassing.

It is an undeniable fact that Europe is weak on the global stage. It is high time they stepped up and took the lead. In reality, the European Union should primarily function as a geopolitical alliance first—only then should it be an economic one.

Turkey's current power is significantly overstated. In the medium term, they are going to face a massive wave of problems. Their economic growth over the last few decades was fueled by cheap credit—nothing more. Despite everything, their industrial base remains weak. The Turkish portion of the state has entered a demographic contraction, while the Kurds continue to expand. At the start of Erdogan's rule, there was hope that political Islam would supersede the Kurdish-Turkish conflict, but that hasn't materialized. The risks Erdogan is taking right now are astronomical. Things could go downhill very, very quickly.

You cannot afford to underestimate Greece's military strength. When you look at the navy and the air force, Turkey isn't even 50% stronger in numbers in either category. With two-thirds of the aircraft and ships, Greece can hold its own in a conflict. Victory is far from guaranteed for Turkey—and failing in a war like that would cost them dearly.

How many of you guys are actually obsessed with this idea that the EU is weak and totally helpless?

Sure, the EU can be slow to move sometimes, but calling it weak—or worse, stupid—is a massive stretch... especially when you look at Turkey.

The EU isn't going to go looking for trouble in Turkey unless things get absolutely desperate, mainly because Turkey is one of their biggest investors and there's way too much economic skin in the game. Some of you are talking like kids who just want to "win" an argument.

If things really hit the fan, Turkey is so unstable that a single tweet from Trump could tank their currency. And if you look at serious sanctions coming from just one place, like Germany for example—those hits would be enough to make Turkey collapse under its own weight or spark internal conflicts. All this talk about Turkey being able to seriously challenge the EU? That’s just noise for kids who don't have a clue what they're talking about, or for those brainless Erdogan supporters.

Flexing muscles just because you can, while bleeding money in the process? You’ll never see that from the EU nations. Anyone who thinks some little Sultan can actually hold his own against a major economic strike from the EU is crazier than any Islamist fanatic.

As long as things stay the way they are, the EU is just going to let Erdogan ramble on whatever he wants... But if we ever reach a point of actual conflict—I give Erdogan six months max, maybe a bit more, but only if Turkey faces total economic isolation and everything else that comes with it...

You’ve got a point there
but honestly—how long can economic interests stay the top priority?
is there ever going to be any sense of pride or dignity involved here?
how much longer are we just going to obsess over the potential fallout for the bottom line?

I mean, at the end of the day, does Turkey even have anything like a BLM movement?
you know, the kind where people tear down statues of old sultans because they were basically colonizers and exploiters
all that stuff
is there a single political party or even one lone representative out there actually pushing for that?

Lawrence Booth2 said:You’ve got a point there
but honestly—how long can economic interests stay the top priority?
is there ever going to be any sense of pride or dignity involved here?
how much longer are we just going to obsess over the potential fallout for the bottom line?

I mean, at the end of the day, does Turkey even have anything like a BLM movement?
you know, the kind where people tear down statues of old sultans because they were basically colonizers and exploiters
all that stuff
is there a single political party or even one lone representative out there actually pushing for that?

Unless something truly massive happens... and right now, nothing is actually hitting the fan. Sure, things can escalate fast, but for the moment, it's quiet.

And honestly, what "pride and dignity" are you even talking about? Do you really think some German, a Frenchman, a Finn, or even an American actually gives a damn about what some Islamist like Erdogan is blathering about? You think they’d jump into a conflict just to flex their muscles? That wouldn't be showing "character"—it would just be stupid. It would be sinking right down to Erdogan's level for no reason at all.

Guys like Erdogan and Vučić—they usually get kicked out by their own people eventually. Right now, they're tolerated for various reasons, and they'll stay tolerated for a while longer. But if Erdogan actually threatened someone significant or the entire European Union (which he can't, because Turkey's economy is basically a rounding error within the EU framework)—he'd be gone in a heartbeat, or the country would be totally isolated. Simple as that.

All these fantasies floating around here about how powerful Turkey is or how insignificant the European Union is? They're just that—fantasies.

Brenda Murphy3 said:Unless something truly massive happens... and right now, nothing is actually hitting the fan. Sure, things can escalate fast, but for the moment, it's quiet.

And honestly, what "pride and dignity" are you even talking about? Do you really think some German, a Frenchman, a Finn, or even an American actually gives a damn about what some Islamist like Erdogan is blathering about? You think they’d jump into a conflict just to flex their muscles? That wouldn't be showing "character"—it would just be stupid. It would be sinking right down to Erdogan's level for no reason at all.

Guys like Erdogan and Vučić—they usually get kicked out by their own people eventually. Right now, they're tolerated for various reasons, and they'll stay tolerated for a while longer. But if Erdogan actually threatened someone significant or the entire European Union (which he can't, because Turkey's economy is basically a rounding error within the EU framework)—he'd be gone in a heartbeat, or the country would be totally isolated. Simple as that.

All these fantasies floating around here about how powerful Turkey is or how insignificant the European Union is? They're just that—fantasies.

It sounds like you're writing this from another planet. Turkey acts as a dam holding back millions of refugees who, if they head toward Europe, could very realistically trigger the collapse of the EU. Erdogan plays both Europe, America, and Russia against each other because he knows exactly how to swim between their competing interests, all while China looms in the background as another force everyone fears...

Erdogan doesn't just talk; he takes concrete steps that clash with many EU member states and the Union as a whole. Yet, there is no response.

All of this points to the political weakness of the European Union first and foremost, which then highlights Turkish strength—strength that is largely inflated because they are simply exploiting the current circumstances perfectly.

Henry Garcia13 said:It sounds like you're writing this from another planet. Turkey acts as a dam holding back millions of refugees who, if they head toward Europe, could very realistically trigger the collapse of the EU. Erdogan plays both Europe, America, and Russia against each other because he knows exactly how to swim between their competing interests, all while China looms in the background as another force everyone fears...

Erdogan doesn't just talk; he takes concrete steps that clash with many EU member states and the Union as a whole. Yet, there is no response.

All of this points to the political weakness of the European Union first and foremost, which then highlights Turkish strength—strength that is largely inflated because they are simply exploiting the current circumstances perfectly.

Because apparently, a broken Europe is somehow better equipped to handle an immigration wave?

Henry Garcia13 said:It sounds like you're writing this from another planet. Turkey acts as a dam holding back millions of refugees who, if they head toward Europe, could very realistically trigger the collapse of the EU. Erdogan plays both Europe, America, and Russia against each other because he knows exactly how to swim between their competing interests, all while China looms in the background as another force everyone fears...

Erdogan doesn't just talk; he takes concrete steps that clash with many EU member states and the Union as a whole. Yet, there is no response.

All of this points to the political weakness of the European Union first and foremost, which then highlights Turkish strength—strength that is largely inflated because they are simply exploiting the current circumstances perfectly.

I can't help but wonder how far this goes when pissed-off Greeks decide to clear the front lines with some rapid fire—it’s easy to push through when someone else is clearing the path for you, but once the game ends and that first shot lands squarely in an immigrant's gut, or hits a different target entirely, things get messy for the Sultan's people. Either that, or some idiot thinks Europe survived all these centuries just because it was always "humanitarian"—as if being humane wasn't just something we did whenever it suited us...

European Union politicians are acting like lukewarm indecisives who are completely out of touch with what their own citizens actually want.
It’s going to be quite the shocker when, in about ten years, the far-right sweeps into power across most of Western Europe with a platform centered on one main goal: sending Turks, Arabs, and their whole crowd right back to where they came from.

I mean, what does it really matter if we call Turkey powerful when they seem to be on bad terms with pretty much every single country they share a border with? They actually had a legitimate shot at shaping a Sunni Syria to fit their own vision, but unfortunately, they completely missed that window of opportunity too.

silverhound said:Because apparently, a broken Europe is somehow better equipped to handle an immigration wave?

Not a chance. It won't be "Europe" defending itself—it’ll just be Germany, Austria, and the US fighting their own individual battles. Everyone for themselves, everyone at each other's throats...

https://www.ekathimerini.com/resourc...humb-large.jpg

You gotta hand it to those Turks, though... total trolls. They couldn't have been even a little bit more subtle about how they touched up the colors.

Henry Garcia13 said:Not a chance. It won't be "Europe" defending itself—it’ll just be Germany, Austria, and the US fighting their own individual battles. Everyone for themselves, everyone at each other's throats...

Keep dreaming. You guys will be kicked out of the EU soon enough.

Henry Garcia13 said:It sounds like you're writing this from another planet. Turkey acts as a dam holding back millions of refugees who, if they head toward Europe, could very realistically trigger the collapse of the EU. Erdogan plays both Europe, America, and Russia against each other because he knows exactly how to swim between their competing interests, all while China looms in the background as another force everyone fears...

Erdogan doesn't just talk; he takes concrete steps that clash with many EU member states and the Union as a whole. Yet, there is no response.

All of this points to the political weakness of the European Union first and foremost, which then highlights Turkish strength—strength that is largely inflated because they are simply exploiting the current circumstances perfectly.

You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.

The European Union could shut down the refugee flow overnight if they actually felt like it. This idea that refugees will dismantle the European Union is total nonsense. The EU is more likely to collapse because of its own member states than because of some Syrians or Afghans... and certainly not because of one guy like Erdogan.

It’s obvious you don't understand the European Union, the people living there, or politics in general. Most European citizens would lose their minds if they were dragged into a conflict just because some Islamist like Erdogan is shouting nonsense. But if things actually escalated? That's when you'd see just how brutal and pragmatic a "civilized" Europe can get. They’d crush Turkey economically or push them into internal chaos where they’d tear themselves apart. Erdogan supporters vs. Gulani supporters, Erdoganists vs. everyone else, Kurds vs. everybody... pick your poison.

Erdogan is clearly a religious fanatic looking at everything through his own warped lens. He probably genuinely believes he's on some "divine mission," but honestly, guys like that aren't smart or rational enough to see reality coming, and they'll crash and burn the moment someone decides to pull the rug out from under them... or they'll end up completely isolated. We're talking about a country that was nearly pushed into economic meltdown by a single damn tweet—and you're calling this "strength"? Turkey isn't Russia with its endless resources, and it's definitely not China with its massive industry and labor force... Turkey is just Turkey. It looks way bigger in the eyes of Erdogan supporters than it actually is in the real world...

Your observations above are pure fiction and nothing more.