The Power of Humility

Joseph Bailey41 said:I think you're right. The bigger the ego, the higher the stakes when it comes to social status and everything else. Sure, humiliating someone here or there might provide a momentary sense of balance, but most of the time, it just breeds resentment. That resentment then fuels even more inflation of the ego, creating this image of ourselves as being untouchable or invincible—like we're these unbreakable warriors who can weather any storm. I see it in myself, too; after every major setback or mess-up, I find myself dancing on the edge of a sort of secular messiah complex. And let's be honest, it isn't a healthy way to live.

Joseph Bailey41 is on a roll.

Wishful thinking is just a bunch of incoherent, banal nonsense served up in some breezy, review-style tone. It’s what happens when the Ego decides to use its brain to fantasize about its own delusions, essentially slamming its head against a wall until the day after tomorrow.

Because, let's be honest—nobody here even understands the basic concept of this thread yet.

Robert Reyes4 said:They honestly think they own the truth. And they talk down to everyone like they're doing us a favor.

That’s just person no 2 right there—someone who lets themselves fantasize about what someone else might be thinking, makes a judgment based on that fantasy, and then drags themselves into an argument over a conclusion they pulled out of thin air.

Reality is a different beast entirely.

What’s actually real doesn't care about anyone's "monopoly on truth" or any of those little personal or ideological delusions. Perception is tied directly to character which dictates how much info you can actually take in and process. One essential part of that character is the level of consciousness we're talking about here.

People with fundamental flaws in their character? Yeah, they're going to struggle to grasp specific virtues. It’s because those virtues feel foreign to them. It’s really that simple.

Joseph Bailey41 actually dropped something useful for once, so we might as well bend over and pick it up. It could do some good for someone out there.

Joseph Bailey41 said:I think you're right. The bigger the ego, the higher the stakes when it comes to social status and everything else. Sure, humiliating someone here or there might provide a momentary sense of balance, but most of the time, it just breeds resentment. That resentment then fuels even more inflation of the ego, creating this image of ourselves as being untouchable or invincible—like we're these unbreakable warriors who can weather any storm. I see it in myself, too; after every major setback or mess-up, I find myself dancing on the edge of a sort of secular messiah complex. And let's be honest, it isn't a healthy way to live.

Look, whether it's a minor setback or a total catastrophe, there's always this massive internal shift happening. If you actually manage to use it properly, it leads to growth. Every single mess brings its own set of lessons and keys that unlock new levels of awareness. None of this crap comes without something valuable tucked inside the package; that initial negative gut feeling is just your system reacting to the fact that the lesson being delivered is uncomfortable. It's supposed to be.

The fake psychology pushed by the mindless herd in this decaying, degenerate society tries to label what has always been known as a positive individual process as a pathology. Meanwhile, the brainwashed masses just blindly nod their way through life, looking for miracles and a messiah in the outside world while remaining totally stagnant internally, never realizing they're actually lying right where they need to be.

hollowpuma762 said:Joseph Bailey41 is on a roll.

Wishful thinking is just a bunch of incoherent, banal nonsense served up in some breezy, review-style tone. It’s what happens when the Ego decides to use its brain to fantasize about its own delusions, essentially slamming its head against a wall until the day after tomorrow.

Because, let's be honest—nobody here even understands the basic concept of this thread yet.

Maybe one day your perspective will finally align with what's actually happening in reality. 👍

hollowpuma762 said:Joseph Bailey41 actually dropped something useful for once, so we might as well bend over and pick it up. It could do some good for someone out there.

Look, whether it's a minor setback or a total catastrophe, there's always this massive internal shift happening. If you actually manage to use it properly, it leads to growth. Every single mess brings its own set of lessons and keys that unlock new levels of awareness. None of this crap comes without something valuable tucked inside the package; that initial negative gut feeling is just your system reacting to the fact that the lesson being delivered is uncomfortable. It's supposed to be.

The fake psychology pushed by the mindless herd in this decaying, degenerate society tries to label what has always been known as a positive individual process as a pathology. Meanwhile, the brainwashed masses just blindly nod their way through life, looking for miracles and a messiah in the outside world while remaining totally stagnant internally, never realizing they're actually lying right where they need to be.

I honestly don't see a reason for that—not really a purpose, unless I try too hard to force the idea that "everything happens for a reason."

hollowpuma762 said:Joseph Bailey41 actually dropped something useful for once, so we might as well bend over and pick it up. It could do some good for someone out there.

Look, whether it's a minor setback or a total catastrophe, there's always this massive internal shift happening. If you actually manage to use it properly, it leads to growth. Every single mess brings its own set of lessons and keys that unlock new levels of awareness. None of this crap comes without something valuable tucked inside the package; that initial negative gut feeling is just your system reacting to the fact that the lesson being delivered is uncomfortable. It's supposed to be.

The fake psychology pushed by the mindless herd in this decaying, degenerate society tries to label what has always been known as a positive individual process as a pathology. Meanwhile, the brainwashed masses just blindly nod their way through life, looking for miracles and a messiah in the outside world while remaining totally stagnant internally, never realizing they're actually lying right where they need to be.

That doesn't have anything to do with modern societal decay—people have always looked for external miracles. As for the internal stuff, it's a miracle we're still breathing after everything. It’s a miracle how easy it is to just exist. It's a miracle I'm even typing this post. And poets? They're the real wonders of this world. ☕

hollowpuma762 said:That’s just person no 2 right there—someone who lets themselves fantasize about what someone else might be thinking, makes a judgment based on that fantasy, and then drags themselves into an argument over a conclusion they pulled out of thin air.

Reality is a different beast entirely.

What’s actually real doesn't care about anyone's "monopoly on truth" or any of those little personal or ideological delusions. Perception is tied directly to character which dictates how much info you can actually take in and process. One essential part of that character is the level of consciousness we're talking about here.

People with fundamental flaws in their character? Yeah, they're going to struggle to grasp specific virtues. It’s because those virtues feel foreign to them. It’s really that simple.

You’ve basically taken some spiritual teaching—heaven knows which one—and treated it like absolute truth. Just remember that's your own choice. None of this is provable, and the rest of us are free to believe something else entirely.
And yet, you’re presenting your claims as if they’re universal axioms, without even trying to make a convincing argument.

hollowpuma762, thanks for the killer trip down memory lane.

Robert Reyes4 said:You’ve basically taken some spiritual teaching—heaven knows which one—and treated it like absolute truth. Just remember that's your own choice. None of this is provable, and the rest of us are free to believe something else entirely.
And yet, you’re presenting your claims as if they’re universal axioms, without even trying to make a convincing argument.

A defining trait of most spiritual doctrines is the belief in their absolute truth. Following that logic, if you "choose to believe in something else," you’re deviating from the one True Path, and you'll end up with leukemia through your own fault. (I don't recall exactly how that principle was explained in Philosophy class, but it was something along the lines of childhood malignant diseases being the consequence of some kind of spiritual misalignment—whether it belonged to the child or the parents, I can't quite remember).

In that paradigm, your only salvation lies in believing exactly what hollowpuma762 believes (whatever that actually is; it occasionally smells like perennial philosophy to me, but after all these years of typing with him, I still can't say for sure). From his perspective, every one of those axioms is a reflection of an absolute truth that has nothing to do with our modern, tolerant understanding of the world. Over there, everything is binary—it either is or it isn't; it's black or it's white. There are no middle grounds, and linguistic definitions are treated as trivial, banal, or even maliciously inserted "viruses." That's why there’s no real dialogue here—we can't talk because we aren't even discussing the same things. This kind of obscurantism is actually preferred, since the goal isn't an exchange of ideas, but rather for you to adopt his views, which he considers the only correct ones.

He’s perfectly aware that some people think differently; he’s not slow. However, any opinion that differs from his is, by definition, wrong and not worth his time to even consider. So, this is a perfect example of the total lack of humility that Mars defined—and I somewhat agree with her—which is the realization that you aren't the smartest person in the room, that you have plenty to learn from others, that famous "I know that I know nothing" mindset. Though, personally, I think "modesty" might be a better word for it.

Truly humble individuals don't go around broadcasting contempt or belittling others. To express even a shred of either is fundamentally at odds with the very concept of humility we’re supposedly discussing here.

A person ought to walk through this life with their head held high, maintaining their dignity. Anything that attempts to strip that away by default feels—to me—utterly pathological. It is perversely sick and twisted. Even the ego, which is a perfectly healthy and necessary component of the human psyche just as much as our physical limbs are, will eventually find a way to breach those barriers of suppression. In the context of this specific thread, people do it in a particularly insidious, self-righteous, "messiah" sort of way.

The best course of action is simply to ignore it. 🙂

Joseph Bailey41, I'll circle back to some of your points more thoroughly once I'm back at my laptop. 👍

casualcanyon3 said:I’ve been spending some time reading through various threads regarding the concept of humility from a religious perspective. Some people argue that a truly humble individual should be willing to endure humiliation without complaint. Their logic is that since you already know exactly who you are deep down, nothing from the outside world—not even blatant disrespect—should have the power to shake your internal composure.

Then you have others, like a certain priest I read, who claim that humility is essentially just the realization that every good thing within us stems from God, while every single flaw is entirely our own fault.

Just think about that for a second. According to this, none of your virtues, none of your strength, and none of your drive to be a better person than some higher power is actually a credit to your own character; it’s all just a gift. Meanwhile, every mistake and every dark impulse? That’s all on you.

It is a profoundly perverse way to strip a human being of their dignity, regardless of which version of this ideology you subscribe to.

Humility doesn't have to mean groveling or throwing yourself at someone's feet.
It can simply mean surrender—surrendering to someone or something. To surrender means there is no resistance left; there is nothing left to defend.

"Perverse humiliation."
Sure, that might hold water if you are absolutely certain about what "God" or "something higher" actually means, and equally certain about what "self" means.
I suspect your interpretation might be off, because that "higher power" is also a part of the human experience... just as the "lower" parts are.
In other words, you could say all good things come from God if you don't view God as an external entity—some old man in the clouds or an imaginary friend.

The real question is: why is humility viewed as a bad thing? Why is it considered wrong to admit that something exists beyond our own limited selves?

Joseph Bailey41 said:A defining trait of most spiritual doctrines is the belief in their absolute truth. Following that logic, if you "choose to believe in something else," you’re deviating from the one True Path, and you'll end up with leukemia through your own fault. (I don't recall exactly how that principle was explained in Philosophy class, but it was something along the lines of childhood malignant diseases being the consequence of some kind of spiritual misalignment—whether it belonged to the child or the parents, I can't quite remember).

In that paradigm, your only salvation lies in believing exactly what hollowpuma762 believes (whatever that actually is; it occasionally smells like perennial philosophy to me, but after all these years of typing with him, I still can't say for sure). From his perspective, every one of those axioms is a reflection of an absolute truth that has nothing to do with our modern, tolerant understanding of the world. Over there, everything is binary—it either is or it isn't; it's black or it's white. There are no middle grounds, and linguistic definitions are treated as trivial, banal, or even maliciously inserted "viruses." That's why there’s no real dialogue here—we can't talk because we aren't even discussing the same things. This kind of obscurantism is actually preferred, since the goal isn't an exchange of ideas, but rather for you to adopt his views, which he considers the only correct ones.

He’s perfectly aware that some people think differently; he’s not slow. However, any opinion that differs from his is, by definition, wrong and not worth his time to even consider. So, this is a perfect example of the total lack of humility that Mars defined—and I somewhat agree with her—which is the realization that you aren't the smartest person in the room, that you have plenty to learn from others, that famous "I know that I know nothing" mindset. Though, personally, I think "modesty" might be a better word for it.

Well... at the end of the day, everyone is entitled to their own judgment of right and wrong. If hollowpuma762 decides you aren't right, he doesn't see much reason to respect your opinion—especially if you aren't willing to respect his.

casualcanyon3 said:Truly humble individuals don't go around broadcasting contempt or belittling others. To express even a shred of either is fundamentally at odds with the very concept of humility we’re supposedly discussing here.

A person ought to walk through this life with their head held high, maintaining their dignity. Anything that attempts to strip that away by default feels—to me—utterly pathological. It is perversely sick and twisted. Even the ego, which is a perfectly healthy and necessary component of the human psyche just as much as our physical limbs are, will eventually find a way to breach those barriers of suppression. In the context of this specific thread, people do it in a particularly insidious, self-righteous, "messiah" sort of way.

The best course of action is simply to ignore it. 🙂

Joseph Bailey41, I'll circle back to some of your points more thoroughly once I'm back at my laptop. 👍

On one hand, there’s nothing wrong with having a sense of pride. You could say it's actually a good thing.
Putting yourself above everything else is a mistake. At least, that’s just my take on things.
And there we go again—what was the phrase? Learning from everyone? I have to wonder, though... is there actually anything to be learned from hollowpuma762, or is that just wishful thinking?
Is there really any value in learning exclusively from people who already agree with you?

casualcanyon3 said:Truly humble individuals don't go around broadcasting contempt or belittling others. To express even a shred of either is fundamentally at odds with the very concept of humility we’re supposedly discussing here.

A person ought to walk through this life with their head held high, maintaining their dignity. Anything that attempts to strip that away by default feels—to me—utterly pathological. It is perversely sick and twisted. Even the ego, which is a perfectly healthy and necessary component of the human psyche just as much as our physical limbs are, will eventually find a way to breach those barriers of suppression. In the context of this specific thread, people do it in a particularly insidious, self-righteous, "messiah" sort of way.

The best course of action is simply to ignore it. 🙂

Joseph Bailey41, I'll circle back to some of your points more thoroughly once I'm back at my laptop. 👍

Even if you choose to ignore them, those hollowpuma762 types and their opinions aren't going anywhere.

Honestly, props to you for having the patience and diplomacy of a saint.

But personally, I find it absolutely mind-blowing that nobody has ever bothered to actually translate the name of that damn YHWH—which basically translates to 'I am the one who IS'—as the most blatant, direct assertion of ego over everything else in existence.

The Bible is an incredibly wise book, provided you aren't an idiot.

Jamie Davis9 said:Honestly, props to you for having the patience and diplomacy of a saint.

But personally, I find it absolutely mind-blowing that nobody has ever bothered to actually translate the name of that damn YHWH—which basically translates to 'I am the one who IS'—as the most blatant, direct assertion of ego over everything else in existence.

The Bible is an incredibly wise book, provided you aren't an idiot.

Well then, tell me—what should we do with the Bible? Just toss it in the trash?

Melissa Stewart6 said:Well then, tell me—what should we do with the Bible? Just toss it in the trash?

It really doesn't matter at all.

The truth is, ninety-nine percent of people haven't read it, and they certainly aren't going to.

Jamie Davis9 said:It really doesn't matter at all.

The truth is, ninety-nine percent of people haven't read it, and they certainly aren't going to.

You say people aren't reading. But think about this... most people don't read books at all.
Of those who do read, only a tiny fraction picks up anything substantial.
So, what’s the takeaway? If it doesn't matter what happens to the Bible because nobody reads it, then it shouldn't matter what happens to 99 percent of all other books either... since people aren't reading those, either.

Melissa Stewart6 said:You say people aren't reading. But think about this... most people don't read books at all.
Of those who do read, only a tiny fraction picks up anything substantial.
So, what’s the takeaway? If it doesn't matter what happens to the Bible because nobody reads it, then it shouldn't matter what happens to 99 percent of all other books either... since people aren't reading those, either.

Oh, so "biblos" just means book now? 🙄 Is that how you're choosing to broaden the scope of this discussion, or am I just misreading your logic? 😁

Yet, we are all simply who we are 😁

Can anyone truly claim to be someone they are not? 😳

I fail to see how this relates to the ego at all.

Allow me to offer a bit of wisdom:

There are those who take an immense amount of pride in their supposed humility. 🧐

One must wonder, though—are humility and pride truly mutually exclusive?

Jamie Davis9 said:Oh, so "biblos" just means book now? 🙄 Is that how you're choosing to broaden the scope of this discussion, or am I just misreading your logic? 😁

You say people don't read the Bible, but I’d argue that most people just don't read much of anything these days.

Jamie Davis9 said:Honestly, props to you for having the patience and diplomacy of a saint.

But personally, I find it absolutely mind-blowing that nobody has ever bothered to actually translate the name of that damn YHWH—which basically translates to 'I am the one who IS'—as the most blatant, direct assertion of ego over everything else in existence.

The Bible is an incredibly wise book, provided you aren't an idiot.

If you pluck that sentence out of context like this, it doesn't seem so bad. You have those "I am" meditations which are actually pretty decent; they don't lead to egoism at all, but rather help you experience yourself and the world more fully by stripping away those rigid social roles we play. However, once you look at the entire Bible and those gems like "I am a jealous God," "do not have other gods besides me," and all those "wonderful" scenes of mass slaughter personally sanctioned by YHWH himself... well, then we’re in real trouble.🕺

hiddenhound3 said:Allow me to offer a bit of wisdom:

There are those who take an immense amount of pride in their supposed humility. 🧐

One must wonder, though—are humility and pride truly mutually exclusive?

I see them as two sides of the same coin. When you pull on one end, it creates tension at the other. It’s a constant tug-of-war that goes on forever until something finally gives. For now, nothing seems to be giving—it's pretty rare to find someone capable of grasping the paradox you've laid out here.