Immigration General Discussion Volume IV (Read the first post and moderator warning on page 309)

🤦

While we all sit here dissecting every little detail—arguing over conflicting theories, questionable sources, and various assumptions—it feels as though we are witnessing exactly what the powers that be intended. It is becoming increasingly clear that for those of us living in the North America, things are not looking particularly bright.
One only needs to look at how the victors of WWII handled the establishment of the Jewish state, or consider how Palestinians have been fighting for territory they claim as their own for seventy years now.
In my estimation, the entire North American region is essentially a manufactured solution of that same variety.
Ultimately, we are all going to end up simmering in the same pot.

This is precisely why Canada is clinging to the EU with such desperation—an attempt to avoid being tossed into that very same pot. They are crying out for assistance, yet I suspect that, with the quiet blessing of Germany and Austria, they might follow the lead of the Canadians—though, of course, those moves were orchestrated rather than spontaneous. Is Viktor Orbán, or even Canada as a sovereign nation, truly a force capable of acting entirely on its own whims?

Isn't this just lovely 🙂

700 refugees "vanished" from a shelter in Lower Saxony, Germany.

The officials are basically saying, "we can't just lock people up, it's not a prison." A huge chunk of them haven't even been officially registered or filed for asylum yet. Apparently, friends and family have been showing up to pick some of them up over the last few days. As for the rest? People are assuming they've already moved "further along."

And so it goes. 🙂

Christian Anderson6 said:Oh sure, because we definitely need more role models like the Greeks or the Mexicans. 🤦
Honestly, who actually cares if Greece is taking heat or not? Greece is just trying to host everyone because they want to live off the rest of Europe—basically wanting to borrow instead of contribute—which is exactly what the European Union won't let them do. Now, suddenly, they're acting tough. So, what, are we supposed to look at Greece as some kind of shining example and start acting exactly like them?

Don't embarrass yourself in the age of the internet.

US debt was essentially created to bail out private banks using taxpayer money. Before that, they were servicing their debts perfectly fine.

A recent study by Paul Krugman, based on Federal Reserve Review documents, IMF evaluation reports and US government budget documents, revealed that only 27 billion dollars – a meager 11 per cent of the total funding – were used for the US state’s operating needs. Which squares with the fact that the US government, as a result of the brutal belt-tightening imposed by the troika, has been running a primary surplus (i.e., its revenues have exceeded expenses) since 2013.

What about the rest of the money? Well, it went to the country’s banks and foreign creditors, mostly JPMorgan Chase and Goldman Sachs. In other words, more than 80 per cent of the bailout funds were used to bail out, either directly or indirectly, the financial sector (both US and foreign) – not the US state. In the process, the majority of US government debt was shifted from the private sector to the public sector, with other eurozone governments now liable for around 65 per cent of the debt (and another 20 per cent in the hands of the Federal Reserve and IMF).

https://www.opendemocracy.net/can-eu...%93-not-greece

Then they felt forced to buy billions in German weapons. Yeah, buying military hardware is a brilliant move for a country in that kind of shape.

Quote : The Submarine Deals that Helped Sink Greece

http://www.lepointinternational.com/...k-greece-.html

Now their real estate is gone. And their Airplanes.

Quote : What Assets did Greece Just hand Over to Europe : "Airplanes, Infrastructure and most certainly banks"

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-0...tructure-and-m

Cut out the empty rhetoric about lazy Greeks sipping brandy under olive trees.

Honestly, when everyone is just looking out for themselves and the only way they can win is by screwing over the person standing right next to them, I don't have any problem hearing Biden issue some protest notes.
It’s actually a sign that he’s doing right by his country.

Has any American city been overrun by migrants like Budapest, Mexico City, or Athens have?

And has any of those countries ever performed better than the US, with less damage and more controlled border management?

Does anyone seriously believe that Viktor Orban, Aleksandar Vučić, or Miro Cerar actually want what's best for us, or that they'd give a damn about our security and our interests?

Look, we can argue about being left-wing, right-wing, East, or West, but let's be real: this is a dirty game where everyone is just waiting for a chance to kick whoever looks the weakest.

They say one thing, do another, and think something else entirely.

As long as that's how it works, I fully expect people to hate everything Biden does.

Those types will only praise you and pat you on the back once you've completely surrendered.

Jessica King9 said:Our President would turn America into a total hotspot!
I really think we need to get our act together regarding border security. It feels like we're just letting things slide when we should be tightening things up...
What kind of talk is that about Frontex? Honestly, woman...
What she’s describing is the textbook definition of a hotspot...

The hotspot strategy...
The European Asylum Support Office (EASO) and the EU Border agency...
The agency (Frontex) and the European Union Police Cooperation Agency (Europol)...
And Eurojust, along with the rest of the European Union's judicial framework, is going to get to work.
Currently on the ground working alongside officials from the frontline Member state...
The state should provide assistance... ...meet their legal requirements as mandated by European Union law and...
We need to move fast on identifying, registering, and fingerprinting all incoming migrants immediately..

We absolutely have to prevent this at all costs! We can't allow foreign agencies to take their sweet time identifying and registering migrants, only to dump them back on us whenever they feel like it, all while massive groups continue to pile up at our borders...
This is just absolutely terrifying...

I’ve noticed that certain users here and most of the media (I don't buy those cheap tabloids) are really working hard to make sure as many migrants as possible stay in America for as long as possible. It seems once they get used to the "pass the buck to the neighbor" system, everyone just stops caring.

Once they set up a system where people aren't just trekking through the mud and wrapped in January blankets, the headlines will start reading: "25,000 entered the US, 25,000 left..."

Disclaimer: I always vote for everyone. Everyone is equally dear to me.😁

Dana Kern5 said:Before you jump into a debate on this topic, maybe try to actually figure out what that famous Frontex agency is really for, and then come back with something like this.

Given how aggressive you're being, I almost suspect you might be one of those volunteers yourself! It’s honestly surprising that you don't realize Frontex is actually one of the biggest reasons why "refugees" have flooded into Italy and Greece.
Who is it that intercepts the boats and rubber rafts carrying hundreds of "migrants" right off the coast of Libya and delivers them straight to Italy and Greece? What exactly is A. Mohorovcic doing down there?

How are those Frontex warships supposed to defend the European Union borders? And what about organizations like MSF, Homme de Terre, and all the others? Are they not just lining their pockets with massive amounts of money from Brussels and the organizers behind this whole "migration" from the other side?
Do you really think we're all just fools being fed nonsense by various TV and Print outlets?

And why on earth should Eastern European countries have to participate in this entire Frontex circus???
The actions taking place in the Mediterranean Sea are nothing short of criminal.

So, you're actually upset that the V4 countries aren't bringing in even more migrants? Is that it? Like there aren't enough already?

Yeah, it’s pretty unbelievable what Brussels did. Instead of actually controlling the borders and stopping illegal entries into the union, they didn't just encourage it, they actively helped illegal settlement by picking up migrants on the shores of Africa and transporting them into Europe. All of it funded by taxpayer money, against the will of the people. And they do it proudly, too. It's terrible.

Can you imagine Americans sending bus convoys into, say, Mexico, and picking up unknown people without documents in some Mexican cities just to transport them across the border into the USA?

Christian Anderson6 said:That wouldn't be terrifying at all. If they want them back, let them have them. And honestly, can't we just send them right back to where they came from too?

What's actually terrifying is what we're doing right now.

Give me some specifics on how you plan to do that. I'd love to hear the actual logistics.

Henry Cox2 said:That’s an interesting way to look at wasteful spending. I caught some analysis on the news claiming the migrant situation is costing us 2 million dollars a day. That 6 million figure was already old news by last week.

Here is what that money could have actually bought:
- textbooks for 16,000 students
or mammogram screenings for 133,000 women
or 20 preschool centers
or 100 two-bedroom apartments for low-income families

That daily 2 million could cover:
- funding a soup kitchen in San Francisco for an entire year (serving 221 people).

So yeah... it's a damn ridiculous number.

And?

They blew through $40 million on cell phones without even blinking.

While the most controversial part of the $40 million mobile services contract for the general public is that The Government is buying smartphones right in the middle of a crisis,

How much does a migrant cost if you hold them for a week? Between registration, following protocol, and psychological and medical processing? You really think that's coming out of EU funds?

Do any of you people actually know how to use Excel? Do some math.

Sophia Ramos5 said:And?

They blew through $40 million on cell phones without even blinking.

While the most controversial part of the $40 million mobile services contract for the general public is that The Government is buying smartphones right in the middle of a crisis,

How much does a migrant cost if you hold them for a week? Between registration, following protocol, and psychological and medical processing? You really think that's coming out of EU funds?

Do any of you people actually know how to use Excel? Do some math.

I don't get it. They drop 40 mil on phone contracts and now suddenly they need to cut corners on migrants and ship them out as fast as possible? Is that supposed to make us forgive them?
What's even the point of this stupid post?

It’s honestly wild how aggressive these little partisan keyboard warriors get on here—maybe it's the sleep deprivation, but they always seem most active in the dead of night.

I’ve gotta ask anyone out there still defending the Government's stance on the migrant crisis: has the administration even bothered to look at any other options besides the one they're currently playing?

Of course they haven't. They got caught totally flat-footed, as usual. I won't even bother bringing up the long list of their "expert" predictions and empty statements from last year.

Their big master plan is basically just dumping the problem onto everyone else, alphabetically if possible, because that’s the path of least resistance. Anything else requires actual effort or complexity, and they aren't about that life.
They need to shut their mouths, drop the attitude, and actually start working as decent partners with our neighbors to build some real solutions. Just do something.
And maybe try staying awake until noon for once.

wanderingbadger77 said:It’s honestly wild how aggressive these little partisan keyboard warriors get on here—maybe it's the sleep deprivation, but they always seem most active in the dead of night.

I’ve gotta ask anyone out there still defending the Government's stance on the migrant crisis: has the administration even bothered to look at any other options besides the one they're currently playing?

Of course they haven't. They got caught totally flat-footed, as usual. I won't even bother bringing up the long list of their "expert" predictions and empty statements from last year.

Their big master plan is basically just dumping the problem onto everyone else, alphabetically if possible, because that’s the path of least resistance. Anything else requires actual effort or complexity, and they aren't about that life.
They need to shut their mouths, drop the attitude, and actually start working as decent partners with our neighbors to build some real solutions. Just do something.
And maybe try staying awake until noon for once.

And what is the plan supposed to be? Some post-election Republican scheme to turn America into a massive hotspot just so they can suck up aid from Europe (once there's nothing left to squeeze out of America, since you can't keep painting over the cracks forever)? And then, following Matt G.'s logic, just split the loot—half to the refugees, half to the Republican Party, and the rest to their cronies?

Dennis Alvarez10 said:And what is the plan supposed to be? Some post-election Republican scheme to turn America into a massive hotspot just so they can suck up aid from Europe (once there's nothing left to squeeze out of America, since you can't keep painting over the cracks forever)? And then, following Matt G.'s logic, just split the loot—half to the refugees, half to the Republican Party, and the rest to their cronies?

Total paranoia. We aren't talking about the 2015 elections here. I couldn't care less about the Republican Party.
I just want to know if there's any actual alternative to this plan... I don't give a damn about the political alphabet soup.

wanderingbadger77 said:It’s honestly wild how aggressive these little partisan keyboard warriors get on here—maybe it's the sleep deprivation, but they always seem most active in the dead of night.

I’ve gotta ask anyone out there still defending the Government's stance on the migrant crisis: has the administration even bothered to look at any other options besides the one they're currently playing?

Of course they haven't. They got caught totally flat-footed, as usual. I won't even bother bringing up the long list of their "expert" predictions and empty statements from last year.

Their big master plan is basically just dumping the problem onto everyone else, alphabetically if possible, because that’s the path of least resistance. Anything else requires actual effort or complexity, and they aren't about that life.
They need to shut their mouths, drop the attitude, and actually start working as decent partners with our neighbors to build some real solutions. Just do something.
And maybe try staying awake until noon for once.

You're asking if there are other options—I think there are. But don't expect anyone to lay them out for you right now. I could speculate, but I won't, since I've learned my lesson about doing that.
As for the timeline of those grand declarations: if I were in their shoes, given people like you and my concerns for our neighbors—with whom, unlike you, I don't believe we currently share any common interests—my own statements would be even more incoherent.
Try learning to read between the lines and thinking a bit more broadly.
Even during his arbitration speech, Joe Biden brought up migrants and asked us just how much we actually care about Schengen in a situation like this.

So, I was just sitting here thinking about all that BBC drama lately—you know, the kind of stuff that just keeps swirling around the news cycle—and it really makes you wonder how things work over there in the UK versus how we handle media stuff here in the States. It’s funny, isn't it? How much energy goes into these massive institutional shakeups. I guess it’s a bit like watching one of those long-running prestige dramas on HBO, where you think you understand the characters, but then suddenly, everything shifts and you're left wondering who's actually calling the shots behind the scenes. Anyway, I was just rambling, I suppose... just one of those things that stays on your mind. Maria James40 says:
What a paranoid way to look at things. Honestly, we aren't back in the middle of the 2015 elections or anything—it’s just not that deep. And, I guess if I'm being totally honest, I don't really care about the Republican Party at all.
I just really want to know if there’s any other way around this plan... honestly, I couldn't care less about the whole alphabet soup thing.

It feels like you're the only one getting worked up over this—honestly, I think you might be letting a little paranoia get the better of you. I mean, I see you bringing up political parties and talking about sleeping through things... it's just a bit much, I guess.

So, what kind of options are we actually looking at here? I mean, there are a few ways this could go, I guess... maybe we should look at everything on the table before making a move.

"Share this around"—it seems like things are actually pretty well organized so far, I guess.
So, we’ve been talking about making some kind of deal with the neighbors—and honestly, we already know how the Canadian government is going to react to any of this. As for the Canadians, I guess they might take maybe two buses a day just to look like the good guys, if that's even a thing. But the bottom line is, all these migrants are just piling up right here in our local Hot Spot.
It would actually be pretty great if we could just get those two Canadian buses from over in Mexico—honestly, that’d be a huge win. But then you have Aleksandar Vučić out there claiming they aren't going to shut down the border at all, since he views migrants as being free to move however they want. So, I guess what we're really doing here is just building a fence facing toward Mexico... maybe? It's a bit of a strange situation, I suppose.
I mean, if migrants aren't exactly feeling the vibe under Aleksandar Vučić—which, honestly, I can see why—where else are they going to head? It’s probably just going to be toward Canada or Mexico next, I guess.
I mean, honestly—that whole situation over in Mexico? It probably wouldn't be that hard to sort out. I guess we could fix it pretty easily if we actually put our minds to it.
So, we’re looking at building this massive border wall along the edge of Canada now—which, honestly, feels like an absolute nightmare waiting to happen for a ton of different reasons. I mean, between the geography and all the messy political stuff, it just seems totally unfeasible. Like, imagine trying to put up a fence right through the middle of Herzegovina, separating neighbors from one another... it just doesn't sit right with me, I guess. It feels like such a headache.

So, I guess we’re basically stuck just passing the buck along until someone actually fixes things at the source—which, let's be honest, probably isn't going to happen anytime soon. And if the Canadians are seriously thinking about putting up some kind of barrier against Americans... well, they can certainly try, I suppose. 373 miles Well, you know... fences go up everywhere, I guess... but then again, we’ve got the ocean right there—and all those ferries, too. It’s just one more thing to consider, really. Plus, there are always other options on the table, maybe even better ones if you think about it long enough.

I don't think America looked incompetent here at all—it’s more that the European Union is just this fundamentally broken structure. It feels like those "humanitarian" northern countries are being pretty hypocritical, honestly. They seem more than happy to let people from the North America deal with the whole migrant situation on their own terms, basically using us as a buffer to handle the mess for them. But, I guess we aren't quite that naive.

Thanks for the reply.
So the "chaos mode" strategy—just keep pushing and pick fights with the neighbors.
It’s basically the only plan that actually works right now, since there haven't been any other options on the table.
Fine.

wanderingbadger77 said:Thanks for the reply.
So the "chaos mode" strategy—just keep pushing and pick fights with the neighbors.
It’s basically the only plan that actually works right now, since there haven't been any other options on the table.
Fine.

That isn't some kind of regional chaos, it's more like... "you asked for this."

I don't really follow you—what's your actual goal here? Peace with our neighbors? I mean, wouldn't the result of that peace just be 200,000 frustrated migrants stuck in the US right now, desperate to push further inland? We're over here struggling, while the Canadians, Austrians, and Germans are out there praising us—we might even snag a Nobel Prize if we're lucky. 😁

The Nobel Prize always having critics and questions... seriously, you're constantly nitpicking. Why don't you just offer a complete, workable solution instead?

wanderingbadger77 said:Thanks for the reply.
So the "chaos mode" strategy—just keep pushing and pick fights with the neighbors.
It’s basically the only plan that actually works right now, since there haven't been any other options on the table.
Fine.

What do you think actually matters more here?

a. Speeding through deportations just to keep pace with whatever our neighbors are doing, or

b. Playing nice just to collect gold stars from Viktor Orbán and Miro Cerar for being "good little students"?

Sophia Ramos5 said:And?

They blew through $40 million on cell phones without even blinking.

While the most controversial part of the $40 million mobile services contract for the general public is that The Government is buying smartphones right in the middle of a crisis,

How much does a migrant cost if you hold them for a week? Between registration, following protocol, and psychological and medical processing? You really think that's coming out of EU funds?

Do any of you people actually know how to use Excel? Do some math.

Look, they need those phones. How else are they supposed to call "the Administration's private jet" without a dial tone?😛

swiftotter9 said:What do you think actually matters more here?

a. Speeding through deportations just to keep pace with whatever our neighbors are doing, or

b. Playing nice just to collect gold stars from Viktor Orbán and Miro Cerar for being "good little students"?

Oh, and I think you forgot about Jean-Claude Juncker—the guy who suggested some totally unrealistic bureaucratic nonsense for tomorrow's meeting, which, honestly, I'm pretty sure we aren't going to go along with.

swiftotter9 said:What do you think actually matters more here?

a. Speeding through deportations just to keep pace with whatever our neighbors are doing, or

b. Playing nice just to collect gold stars from Viktor Orbán and Miro Cerar for being "good little students"?

c. Protecting our own borders, period. If we can cut a deal with someone, fine. If not, also fine.