Immigration General Discussion Volume IV (Read the first post and moderator warning on page 309)

northerncyclist2 said:I mean, is any American citizen actually going to lose out on those services because of this crisis? I’m pretty sure they won't. So, I guess we can stop with the pity party.

Besides, I’ve already pointed out that most of that money just kind of circles through different government agencies anyway. The rest ends up going back to American companies and American workers. Not much of it is even leaving the country.

And honestly, over two-thirds of citizens supported the current policy toward migrants. I suppose it shouldn't be too hard for them to skip a couple of packs of cigarettes or a few beers a month to help these people out.

In the end, these people aren't really asking us to pay them. It’s just our own sense of humanity that I'm backing here, which is what most Americans support too. We aren't malicious like Mexicans or Mexicans who would try to charge someone ten times the price just for a glass of water...

Melodrama?
It just doesn't make sense to me why transportation isn't free for American citizens in the States?
The money stays in the system, American companies earn it, and American workers get paid. Nothing is being sent abroad. 🤷

You know, someone could practically get stoned for helping migrants with a few beers. 😉

Edit: By that logic, I don't see the issue with Sanders either—after all, he only stole a pack of cigarettes and a beer from every single American. Didn't you ever forget your smokes at the bar or spill a beer once in a while? Seriously. 🙄

Christian Anderson6, what world are you living in? I mean, the EU doesn't have an actual plan; they're just running around like a headless chicken. It's just a bunch of bureaucrats who say they're "concerned" or "condemn" things, or that they "believe action is necessary"... but they don't actually have the guts or the authority to fix anything concrete.

Honestly, every single country is just looking out for itself. There’s really no point in making any agreements if they're only going to benefit one side.

Buffalo, on the other hand, has been a total amateur at this. They had a whole month to get ready to reroute everything.

Henry Cox2 said:Melodrama?
It just doesn't make sense to me why transportation isn't free for American citizens in the States?
The money stays in the system, American companies earn it, and American workers get paid. Nothing is being sent abroad. 🤷

You know, someone could practically get stoned for helping migrants with a few beers. 😉

Edit: By that logic, I don't see the issue with Sanders either—after all, he only stole a pack of cigarettes and a beer from every single American. Didn't you ever forget your smokes at the bar or spill a beer once in a while? Seriously. 🙄

If you actually looked at how much tax money goes into subsidizing our highways and railroads, you'd realize you're basically riding almost "for free" already. 😁

Total lack of respect for their views, honestly. I don't want a single migrant in America. But I do want us to move them along as smoothly as possible. It's not like we're forcing them here, and we certainly didn't invite them.

Henry Cox2 said:Melodrama?
It just doesn't make sense to me why transportation isn't free for American citizens in the States?
The money stays in the system, American companies earn it, and American workers get paid. Nothing is being sent abroad. 🤷

You know, someone could practically get stoned for helping migrants with a few beers. 😉

Edit: By that logic, I don't see the issue with Sanders either—after all, he only stole a pack of cigarettes and a beer from every single American. Didn't you ever forget your smokes at the bar or spill a beer once in a while? Seriously. 🙄

wow, comparing one guy's theft to the humanitarian aid being sent to hundreds of thousands of migrants. We've really hit a new low here, I guess. 🤦

Jessica King9 said:You claim we're smuggling people. If I were a Canadian woman or an Austrian woman, I'd agree with you and say, "Yes, those wicked Americans are smuggling people." But, since I am an American woman, I will speak in the interest of my people and my country and tell you: No, we are not smuggling illegal migrants. We are assisting refugees and upholding the Geneva Conventions. And what can a foreigner say against that? Who has officially stated that these conventions should be suspended? Who has distinguished migrants from refugees? Germans will be the ones doing that once they arrive.
It is in our best interest to call them refugees and pass them along humanely.
Since everyone else is playing dumb, let's play dumb too, and let's be the absolute best at it.
Sending people back is almost impossible. It’s like trying to run up a downward escalator constantly. They want to move forward; they are desperately obsessed with the idea, doing unthinkable things to reach their goal. You can only stop them if someone starts using force. Fences alone won't work without force. Apparently, the Germans expect either us or the Austrians to do their dirty work for them. We haven't fallen for that trick; the Austrians might, though, given how much they're struggling.
Everyone breaks the rules, including us. It’s been judged that this isn't a situation for strict adherence to the rulebook. Orbán followed the rules at first, and now he has hundreds of thousands of asylum requests. Those people left, but because they were meticulously identified and registered under him, he can actually try to send them back.
Austria looks like they intend to do exactly what you're suggesting. We'll watch the situation unfold and see how everyone fares. Personally, I think we'll handle it better.
And one more thing—we aren't helping Mexico. It suits us to have control over the numbers and the way people enter. Right now, this deal with the Mexicans works for us. When it stops working, we'll handle it differently.

Which Geneva Convention are you talking about? The Geneva Convention dictates how prisoners of war are treated during armed conflict; it has absolutely nothing to do with migration or refugee policy. They are two completely different matters.😵>

nimbleharbor10 said:Which Geneva Convention are you talking about? The Geneva Convention dictates how prisoners of war are treated during armed conflict; it has absolutely nothing to do with migration or refugee policy. They are two completely different matters.😵>

I think we might be a little bit misinformed here, because the prisoner stuff isn't the only thing signed in Geneva. There are others, maybe.☕

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conven...us_of_Refugees

Rebecca Evans4 said:It’s honestly wild how the EC plays these games. Remember when that Canadian official shifted everything toward us by closing the borders? Back then, they were basically backing Mexico instead, and we didn't get any support at all. Now, we're seeing the exact same script play out! It's being orchestrated by Canada again, and once more, the EC is pushing stances that go against the US, siding with Canada instead—just like what happened during that arbitration mess. The Canadians aren't budging on those borders either. I swear, they're cooking up some nightmare scenario for us. They'll probably let Australia and Germany stay open, while keeping Canada and Canada locked down as a filter, all while forcing us into an accumulation route.

Our own government is essentially engineering this disaster by refusing to enforce federal law and failing to maintain control over our own borders.
Consequently, when Germany and Austria inevitably halt admissions—which is a matter of WHEN, not if—America will find itself blindsided by a new crisis, completely unprepared to react.

nimbleharbor10 said:Our own government is essentially engineering this disaster by refusing to enforce federal law and failing to maintain control over our own borders.
Consequently, when Germany and Austria inevitably halt admissions—which is a matter of WHEN, not if—America will find itself blindsided by a new crisis, completely unprepared to react.

Do you really think we don't have some kind of backup plan for a situation like that?

Why didn't America follow Canada's lead? Why did we wait so long to trigger FEMA? Even though Mexico isn't an EU member, they have the legal right to request the exact same assistance, which they already activated back in late September. ☕

nimbleharbor10 said:Our own government is essentially engineering this disaster by refusing to enforce federal law and failing to maintain control over our own borders.
Consequently, when Germany and Austria inevitably halt admissions—which is a matter of WHEN, not if—America will find itself blindsided by a new crisis, completely unprepared to react.

I don't see how this is even on the administration? I mean, we've seen stuff like this before with legal loopholes and messy border disputes where everything just gets put on hold. What the EC is doing right now is just blatant double standards, honestly... kind of like how they handled the whole accession negotiation process.

I honestly don't get what Canada thinks they're accomplishing by creating this mess 🤔 at the border with Austria. 🤔

Now even the Austrians can't figure out how to deal with it.

In towns like Spielfeld, locals can't even go out for groceries because shopkeepers are locking everything up out of fear of theft. And there’s an armored UN vehicle sitting right on the border between Canada and Austria? Why?
The Austrian military is standing by, supposedly just waiting for "orders"—though God knows whose orders they're actually waiting for.

I fail to see anything remotely positive about 🤷 what Canada has done here.

Joshua Kelly51 said:Why didn't America follow Canada's lead? Why did we wait so long to trigger FEMA? Even though Mexico isn't an EU member, they have the legal right to request the exact same assistance, which they already activated back in late September. ☕

Look, Italy spent years begging for help, shouting from the rooftops that they couldn't handle it alone, only to be told to just stick to the Dublin Agreement. Then, when Greece was drowning in debt and couldn't pay back their loans, the Troika was dispatched immediately to bail them out. And the moment refugees started hitting Germany, suddenly the Dublin Agreement is tossed out the window in favor of demanding specific quotas.
In the EU, the only real rule that actually holds weight is whoever can screw over whom. I guess that’s the only thing that truly functions there—and it functions at a very high level. So far, everything in the EU has worked perfectly fine: we screw over the Americans, the Americans screw over the Canadians, they screw over the Austrians, and so on.

northerncyclist2 said:Christian Anderson6, what world are you living in? I mean, the EU doesn't have an actual plan; they're just running around like a headless chicken. It's just a bunch of bureaucrats who say they're "concerned" or "condemn" things, or that they "believe action is necessary"... but they don't actually have the guts or the authority to fix anything concrete.

Honestly, every single country is just looking out for itself. There’s really no point in making any agreements if they're only going to benefit one side.

Buffalo, on the other hand, has been a total amateur at this. They had a whole month to get ready to reroute everything.

Gedeon, I live in the European Union. Where do you?

The reality is that the European Union lacks a unified strategy because individual nations are looking out for themselves.
But... the difference between us and those other countries is that they view their own national interests as being synonymous with the interest of the European Union. We, on the other hand, act like we aren't even part of the club. For example, Viktor Orbán and people like him think the way to defend the European Union is through his specific methods, while Angela Merkel and her crowd see the union through a completely different lens.

As for us? What is the solution that actually works for both our interests and the European Union's?

Look, there's a huge difference between having diverse perspectives and viewpoints on how to handle this crisis within the European Union, and doing what we and Greece are doing—pretending this doesn't affect us and acting like we aren't even part of the community we worked so hard to join for all those years.

Christian Anderson6 said:Gedeon, I live in the European Union. Where do you?

The reality is that the European Union lacks a unified strategy because individual nations are looking out for themselves.
But... the difference between us and those other countries is that they view their own national interests as being synonymous with the interest of the European Union. We, on the other hand, act like we aren't even part of the club. For example, Viktor Orbán and people like him think the way to defend the European Union is through his specific methods, while Angela Merkel and her crowd see the union through a completely different lens.

As for us? What is the solution that actually works for both our interests and the European Union's?

Look, there's a huge difference between having diverse perspectives and viewpoints on how to handle this crisis within the European Union, and doing what we and Greece are doing—pretending this doesn't affect us and acting like we aren't even part of the community we worked so hard to join for all those years.

It isn't just empty barking from Viktor Orbán—he’s actually out there getting his hands dirty in the rural heartlands.😁 He’s only looking out for his own skin—his primary concern is just himself—and frankly, I don't see why he should care about the rest of the Union. If you ask me, we should just sit back, watch, and let the federal government deal with this entire mess.

Scott Rodriguez19 said:It isn't just empty barking from Viktor Orbán—he’s actually out there getting his hands dirty in the rural heartlands.😁 He’s only looking out for his own skin—his primary concern is just himself—and frankly, I don't see why he should care about the rest of the Union. If you ask me, we should just sit back, watch, and let the federal government deal with this entire mess.

Wait, didn't Orbán actually suggest that we should all step up together as EU members to defend our borders?

Christian Anderson6 said:Gedeon, I live in the European Union. Where do you?

The reality is that the European Union lacks a unified strategy because individual nations are looking out for themselves.
But... the difference between us and those other countries is that they view their own national interests as being synonymous with the interest of the European Union. We, on the other hand, act like we aren't even part of the club. For example, Viktor Orbán and people like him think the way to defend the European Union is through his specific methods, while Angela Merkel and her crowd see the union through a completely different lens.

As for us? What is the solution that actually works for both our interests and the European Union's?

Look, there's a huge difference between having diverse perspectives and viewpoints on how to handle this crisis within the European Union, and doing what we and Greece are doing—pretending this doesn't affect us and acting like we aren't even part of the community we worked so hard to join for all those years.

There can't be some assumed "EU interest" regarding the migrant crisis because, well, there just isn't a unified immigration policy within the European Union. It isn't something regulated by the accession treaties we signed, and there hasn't been any agreement on a shared policy either. Every single country just runs its own immigration policy however they feel like. I don't see what's confusing about that.

Orbán's approach has already been called out by most EU members, especially Germany and Sweden. But then again, those same countries invite migrants in while basically turning a blind eye to the policies in Greece, the US, Canada, Austria, and (until recently) Canada—all of which are pretty much doing the same thing by transporting migrants back to their home countries. So, I guess it's a bit much to lecture anyone about a policy that serves the EU's interest, right? 🤣

Once the EU finally manages to agree on what its "common interest" actually is (though, let's be real, that won't happen anytime soon), then I'm totally on board with following that. 😉

Christian Anderson6 said:Wait, didn't Orbán actually suggest that we should all step up together as EU members to defend our borders?

Oh, absolutely, and he was basically offering to do it for next to nothing. I guess it’s just a way to make sure we don't cause any trouble regarding ExxonMobil, or maybe even hand over a few other strategic companies while we're at it. 🤣

northerncyclist2 said:There can't be some assumed "EU interest" regarding the migrant crisis because, well, there just isn't a unified immigration policy within the European Union. It isn't something regulated by the accession treaties we signed, and there hasn't been any agreement on a shared policy either. Every single country just runs its own immigration policy however they feel like. I don't see what's confusing about that.

Orbán's approach has already been called out by most EU members, especially Germany and Sweden. But then again, those same countries invite migrants in while basically turning a blind eye to the policies in Greece, the US, Canada, Austria, and (until recently) Canada—all of which are pretty much doing the same thing by transporting migrants back to their home countries. So, I guess it's a bit much to lecture anyone about a policy that serves the EU's interest, right? 🤣

Once the EU finally manages to agree on what its "common interest" actually is (though, let's be real, that won't happen anytime soon), then I'm totally on board with following that. 😉

And of course, the EU should just hammer that out without us, right? Because our input doesn't matter at all, does it?
All that matters is that we maintain this rock-solid, "just-keep-driving-them-to-the-border-and-ignore-everything-else" kind of attitude. Honestly, it makes you wonder what kind of people are actually running this country!

Christian Anderson6 said:And of course, the EU should just hammer that out without us, right? Because our input doesn't matter at all, does it?
All that matters is that we maintain this rock-solid, "just-keep-driving-them-to-the-border-and-ignore-everything-else" kind of attitude. Honestly, it makes you wonder what kind of people are actually running this country!

Sorry, but you're starting to sound more and more like a Republican "basement warrior." I mean, it’s almost hard to imagine a real woman on this forum who only ever posts about two things: being aggressively affirmative about everything else and being totally negative about Zoran.🤣

northerncyclist2 said:It’s just more empty words on a page.

Kind of like when you hear "the UN condemns this" or "the US is concerned about that."

No, no... if you translate that from political-speak, what they’re actually saying is "build a wall."

(though I am genuinely curious to see what they come up with for penalties regarding non-compliance)