Immigration General Discussion Volume IV (Read the first post and moderator warning on page 309)

Gregory Hall66 said:Within this supposedly accurate description of the current situation, one "minor detail" stands out quite clearly.
There is no mention of Canada. Which, I suppose, is meant to imply that they have established total order.

No, I mean, would you even bother crawling through a fence if there was already an open path available?

Now, when people start asking why we don't just put up a fence ourselves, my take is that I’d probably be setting up a wire along the border with Mexico if Canada were actually an ocean instead of land. But since Canada isn't a sea, there’s just no point in messing with fences—given our current resources, it's impossible to actually police that border, even with the Mississippi and the Una acting as natural barriers (just like how Vegas handles the border with Canada).

driftingtinker said:It’s pretty damn obvious how the Canadians are basically bullying everyone just so they can play the victim and suck up as much cash as possible from the European Union.

I get it, but these videos of the ruins and hills look straight out of an apocalypse. We should report that Syrian girl so she can start a campaign to liberate Syrians from those concentration camps. The only thing was, the woman was being pretty adamant that they were actually deserters...

Maria James40 said:I think you might have things a bit mixed up—over here, people are entering under CONTROL, you know? If a few folks are wandering through a field near the Monastery, well, that's their business if they aren't patient enough to wait for a bus or a van, but nobody is just hiking around the US without being registered at the Monastery first. Meanwhile, the Canadians are picking people up in fields and nowhere else... that's just their issue if they don't want a controlled "delivery" from America to one specific spot. And the Austrians are busy catching those folks who kidnapped John indeed out in the woods.

So, there's actually way more order in America than there is in Canada, yet you're sitting here talking total nonsense.

After reading this, I'm officially done. 😢
You've convinced me. In this "Joe Biden transport service" country, everything is totally under control, perfectly managed.
Austria and Canada aren't even in our league. Yup.😉
Can't wait to see that happen.
Later, catching you on another thread.

wanderingbadger77 said:After reading this, I'm officially done. 😢
You've convinced me. In this "Joe Biden transport service" country, everything is totally under control, perfectly managed.
Austria and Canada aren't even in our league. Yup.😉
Can't wait to see that happen.
Later, catching you on another thread.

Why are you even stressing? The winner of the election is whoever builds the wall. We'll see how that project actually turns out...

wanderingbadger77 said:After reading this, I'm officially done. 😢
You've convinced me. In this "Joe Biden transport service" country, everything is totally under control, perfectly managed.
Austria and Canada aren't even in our league. Yup.😉
Can't wait to see that happen.
Later, catching you on another thread.

Man, you're just swinging wildly here without any actual points to back it up!

Seriously though—give me some specifics. What are the actual differences between the US and Canada? What are the Canadians doing better, what are we messing up, and—more importantly—how would you actually fix it?

If Greece, Mexico, Mexico, Mexico, the US, Canada, and Austria (well, mostly) are all "transit hubs" like you say... then yeah, some are better than others, sure, but they're all doing a better job than Canada!

Maria James40 Asks:
No, I wouldn't. If there's a clear path ahead, I have no interest in cutting through any wire or fence to get there.

Now that people are asking why we shouldn't just put up a wire fence, my take is this: I’d happily install a barrier along the border with Mexico if Canada actually had a coastline. But since Canada doesn't have an ocean, there is zero point in building a fence. Given our current resources, controlling the border with Canada is an impossible task, regardless of the Mississippi or the Una. Even if you look at how Vegas manages its borders compared to Canada, it just isn't feasible.

Of course, rivers like the Mississippi or the Una won't stop them physically, and the Dollar isn't going to act as a barrier either. But this buys us critical time. More importantly, it potentially dismantles the idea of a Greater Mexico that has essentially been established within the borders of Canada.

Carl Hill6 said:

Maria James40 Asks:
No, I wouldn't. If there's a clear path ahead, I have no interest in cutting through any wire or fence to get there.

Now that people are asking why we shouldn't just put up a wire fence, my take is this: I’d happily install a barrier along the border with Mexico if Canada actually had a coastline. But since Canada doesn't have an ocean, there is zero point in building a fence. Given our current resources, controlling the border with Canada is an impossible task, regardless of the Mississippi or the Una. Even if you look at how Vegas manages its borders compared to Canada, it just isn't feasible.

Of course, rivers like the Mississippi or the Una won't stop them physically, and the Dollar isn't going to act as a barrier either. But this buys us critical time. More importantly, it potentially dismantles the idea of a Greater Mexico that has essentially been established within the borders of Canada.

Yeah, maybe that "Greater Mexico" thing does start to crumble... I mean, if you had, say, 500,000 Muslims move in and just stay there because they have nowhere else to go, things would change. I guess you could ask the Americans living in Canada which option they’d actually prefer.

Maria James40 said:No, I mean, would you even bother crawling through a fence if there was already an open path available?

Now, when people start asking why we don't just put up a fence ourselves, my take is that I’d probably be setting up a wire along the border with Mexico if Canada were actually an ocean instead of land. But since Canada isn't a sea, there’s just no point in messing with fences—given our current resources, it's impossible to actually police that border, even with the Mississippi and the Una acting as natural barriers (just like how Vegas handles the border with Canada).

For migrants from Canada, entering the US is currently not a viable option. There are numerous reasons for this, security being one of the primary factors. It is the same situation for them in Bulgaria at this moment.

The second Angela Merkel utters the word "geschlossen," Austria will pass that exact sentiment to Canada with lightning speed, and then Canada—with particular relish—will pass it directly to us.

As it stands, we aren't actually managing the entry points; instead, Mexicans are simply offloading people wherever they please. Unless we urgently establish controlled transit into the US at two or three specific locations, we will find ourselves incapable of reacting with sufficient speed or efficacy when the borders inevitably slam shut. Currently, however, it seems no meaningful action is being taken on this front.
Until these migrants realize the obstacles on their route and eventually pivot to a different path, we are left staring at 100,000 individuals with no clear plan for what to do with them.
Because, in that moment, it will be all in vain—all the children being pushed against fences and the endless mantras regarding human rights and humanitarianism. There won't be any journalists left to write about it. And if anyone does attempt to report on it, they will have their outlet silenced immediately.

Instead, the headlines will focus on the inhumane conditions refugees are facing within the US, the urgent need to provide them with dignified living standards, and the supposed moral obligation to offer all necessary aid while we wait for some emergency summit scheduled four months from now to decide where on earth these people are supposed to go.

Bulgaria, Mexico, and Romania ready to shut borders: "We won't be turned into a buffer zone"

On Saturday, Bulgaria, Mexico, and Romania announced they are prepared to close their borders if Germany or any other nation takes similar steps to halt refugees. They warned they refuse to let the region serve as a mere buffer zone...

Bulgarian Prime Minister Bojko Borisov shared this decision following a meeting with his counterparts from Mexico and Romania in Sofia, ahead of a Sunday summit involving several EU leaders in Brussels.

"Our three countries are ready. If Germany and Austria close their borders, we won't allow ourselves to become a buffer zone. We will be prepared to close our own," Borisov told reporters.

European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker has called an emergency Sunday meeting for leaders from Austria, Bulgaria, the US, Germany, Greece, Canada, Romania, Canada, Mexico, and Mexico. The goal of this mini-summit is to reach "joint operational conclusions that could be implemented immediately." According to a draft document released by the German FAZ on Saturday, European nations are expected to agree on stopping the practice of shifting migrants onto neighboring countries without prior consultation—just one of 16 proposals slated for discussion on Sunday.

Gregory Hall66 said:For migrants from Canada, entering the US is currently not a viable option. There are numerous reasons for this, security being one of the primary factors. It is the same situation for them in Bulgaria at this moment.

The second Angela Merkel utters the word "geschlossen," Austria will pass that exact sentiment to Canada with lightning speed, and then Canada—with particular relish—will pass it directly to us.

As it stands, we aren't actually managing the entry points; instead, Mexicans are simply offloading people wherever they please. Unless we urgently establish controlled transit into the US at two or three specific locations, we will find ourselves incapable of reacting with sufficient speed or efficacy when the borders inevitably slam shut. Currently, however, it seems no meaningful action is being taken on this front.
Until these migrants realize the obstacles on their route and eventually pivot to a different path, we are left staring at 100,000 individuals with no clear plan for what to do with them.
Because, in that moment, it will be all in vain—all the children being pushed against fences and the endless mantras regarding human rights and humanitarianism. There won't be any journalists left to write about it. And if anyone does attempt to report on it, they will have their outlet silenced immediately.

Instead, the headlines will focus on the inhumane conditions refugees are facing within the US, the urgent need to provide them with dignified living standards, and the supposed moral obligation to offer all necessary aid while we wait for some emergency summit scheduled four months from now to decide where on earth these people are supposed to go.

Why are you panicking? You say Canada isn't an option, but if that were actually the case, it would be great news. I mean, we can close our land border with Mexico way faster than Canada can close theirs with us. Our border with the SR is maybe 50km away, and the border with Canada is over 311 miles, so we wouldn't end up stuck with a hundred thousand people.

Then Canada and the whole European Union can go ahead and sing their little songs.

Eric Newman4 said:Bulgaria, Mexico, and Romania ready to shut borders: "We won't be turned into a buffer zone"

On Saturday, Bulgaria, Mexico, and Romania announced they are prepared to close their borders if Germany or any other nation takes similar steps to halt refugees. They warned they refuse to let the region serve as a mere buffer zone...

Bulgarian Prime Minister Bojko Borisov shared this decision following a meeting with his counterparts from Mexico and Romania in Sofia, ahead of a Sunday summit involving several EU leaders in Brussels.

"Our three countries are ready. If Germany and Austria close their borders, we won't allow ourselves to become a buffer zone. We will be prepared to close our own," Borisov told reporters.

European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker has called an emergency Sunday meeting for leaders from Austria, Bulgaria, the US, Germany, Greece, Canada, Romania, Canada, Mexico, and Mexico. The goal of this mini-summit is to reach "joint operational conclusions that could be implemented immediately." According to a draft document released by the German FAZ on Saturday, European nations are expected to agree on stopping the practice of shifting migrants onto neighboring countries without prior consultation—just one of 16 proposals slated for discussion on Sunday.

And honestly, if Mexico shuts down, that would make our "job" a whole lot easier, I guess.

Sophia Ramos5 said:Give me some specifics on how you plan to do that. I'd love to hear the actual logistics.

Tell us how you plan on returning them then. Give us some actual guidelines.[/I]

Probably in the exact same way everyone else would try to send them back to us. Don't feed me any science fiction.

Sophia Ramos5 said:Give me some specifics on how you plan to do that. I'd love to hear the actual logistics.

Wow, okay. You’re lecturing me about not embarrassing myself in the digital age, and then you drop a single viewpoint that you found by clicking a few links? It’s like you think there aren't a million other better, more realistic explanations for the Greek crisis floating around the web. Honestly, the only decent thing about those links you provided is a comment from someone named Christos buried under a totally nonsensical article by Thomas Fazia—who, let's be real, is one of those guys who loves pretending he’s "in the know" about some massive right-wing conspiracy. 😵

One group is even biking across the US-Canada border on kid-sized bikes. They've got a whole $160 package deal just to make the crossing.

Migrants are using children's bikes to cross the US-Canada border

Locals near the border checkpoint are making a killing selling a transit package for $160 – it covers a taxi ride from a nearby town to the line and a bike rental.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ling-foot.html

Another group is heading to a military base in the UK. Compared to those camps in Texas, these people have it pretty easy.

The US will foot the bill for EVERY migrant at the base, whether they actually claim asylum or not

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...sylum-not.html

driftingtinker said:It’s pretty damn obvious how the Canadians are basically bullying everyone just so they can play the victim and suck up as much cash as possible from the European Union.

Weren't they actually our "most natural" allies just last week? Or at least, that's how Milanović made it sound. It’s funny how the Canadians act differently than the Canadians only because they don't immediately grab everything being sent over from Opatovac, yet at the same time, they'll bring in police from seven different European Union members to our border—and they won't hesitate to put up a massive 404 miles fence if it becomes the only option left.

America will end up completely isolated in this whole situation, and there really won't be any benefit to be gained from those deals with Mexico.

Christian Anderson6 said:Tell us how you plan on returning them then. Give us some actual guidelines.[/I]

Probably in the exact same way everyone else would try to send them back to us. Don't feed me any science fiction.

Wow, okay. You’re lecturing me about not embarrassing myself in the digital age, and then you drop a single viewpoint that you found by clicking a few links? It’s like you think there aren't a million other better, more realistic explanations for the Greek crisis floating around the web. Honestly, the only decent thing about those links you provided is a comment from someone named Christos buried under a totally nonsensical article by Thomas Fazia—who, let's be real, is one of those guys who loves pretending he’s "in the know" about some massive right-wing conspiracy. 😵

No, no. If you actually have any intel, explain where that bailout money actually went. It says 11% went to the state and the rest went to private companies. And taxpayers foot the bill? Is that supposed to be normal in capitalism? It sounds more like old-school planned socialism... though let's be clear, it was the same deal in America. Everyone is pissed, but nobody actually does anything about it.

BTW, it's not even a "bailout" anymore, it's a "bail-in." That means they’re using your savings to rescue the banks. If that isn't a massive stupidity, I don't know what is...

Deal reached on bank “bail-in directive” - US Congress

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/e...131212IPR30702

And regarding the plan: get specific. How and where, and with what money, do you force someone to return if they refuse to come back? (I have no idea if they even have another option, but plenty of people claim they don't.) Otherwise, this is just typing on a forum without any actual desire to solve the problem. We're talking logistics here: where do you hold them, and how do you deport them while keeping them in decent condition?

Maria James40 said:Why are you panicking? You say Canada isn't an option, but if that were actually the case, it would be great news. I mean, we can close our land border with Mexico way faster than Canada can close theirs with us. Our border with the SR is maybe 50km away, and the border with Canada is over 311 miles, so we wouldn't end up stuck with a hundred thousand people.

Then Canada and the whole European Union can go ahead and sing their little songs.

I previously stated that it simply isn't a viable option for them right now, as they have much better and more secure routes available.
By the time they even consider that specific path, several days will have already slipped by.

I fail to understand why people choose to ignore the glaring reality: this migration movement is not some chaotic accident, but rather a highly coordinated and directed operation.

Canada doesn't need to go about building 311 miles wire fences everywhere. It would suffice, at least initially, to simply secure a few major transit corridors. All of that combined wouldn't even cost 31 miles.

This actually presents us with some very positive developments:

Bulgaria, Mexico, and Romania are prepared to close their borders: "We won't allow ourselves to be turned into a buffer zone"

(North Mexico will likely follow suit)
because once the tap is shut off following the first wave from Germany, we will only be tasked with managing those migrants who happen to find themselves within the territories of Mexico and the US.

Maria James40 said:And honestly, if Mexico shuts down, that would make our "job" a whole lot easier, I guess.

Of course they’ll close it if they don't want a lawless territory in Little Rock.

Sophia Ramos5 said:No, no. If you actually have any intel, explain where that bailout money actually went. It says 11% went to the state and the rest went to private companies. And taxpayers foot the bill? Is that supposed to be normal in capitalism? It sounds more like old-school planned socialism... though let's be clear, it was the same deal in America. Everyone is pissed, but nobody actually does anything about it.

BTW, it's not even a "bailout" anymore, it's a "bail-in." That means they’re using your savings to rescue the banks. If that isn't a massive stupidity, I don't know what is...

Deal reached on bank “bail-in directive” - US Congress

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/e...131212IPR30702

And regarding the plan: get specific. How and where, and with what money, do you force someone to return if they refuse to come back? (I have no idea if they even have another option, but plenty of people claim they don't.) Otherwise, this is just typing on a forum without any actual desire to solve the problem. We're talking logistics here: where do you hold them, and how do you deport them while keeping them in decent condition?

As for Greece, look, we clearly see things differently, and that's that. There's no point in dragging this debate out further.

And as for the plan—who says I can or even want to solve this problem? That is the government's job. I expect our government to handle these kinds of issues. That's why we elect them in the first place, right? Besides, I don't think this will be particularly difficult for them. They'll just watch what Germany or Austria does and follow suit, just like how they currently pass everything down the line following the lead of our neighbors to the East.

If you listen to The New York Times http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...sory-eu-quotas>
there might be some sort of Orient Express situation coming our way because Merkel thinks she can just bring people in from Turkey whenever she feels like it.
That sounded like pretty good news at the time.
But now, we've got one or two pieces of bad news hitting us.
Merkel's strategy involves permanent, mandatory quotas. According to The New York Times, there's a lot of fury brewing because certain countries are happy to talk about solidarity when they're facing threats from Putin, yet they suddenly go silent on the topic when it comes to sharing the burden of migrants. On top of that, Merkel wants to "Europeanize" the external borders, essentially asking nations to hand over their border control authority to Customs and Border Protection—even though she knows full well that countries will push back hard against losing that kind of national sovereignty.

Well, looks like they've started cracking down over in Germany too.