Immigration General Discussion Volume IV (Read the first post and moderator warning on page 309)

hiddenmarlin14 said:Thousands of migrants are trekking north according to TIME

summary free translation :

With the North American route shut down, thousands of refugees left the Idomeneus camp on Monday and started heading north on foot. Migrants looking for alternative ways to cross the border into Mexico are being surrounded and monitored by local police. According to Austrian authorities via TIME, this walking route seems to have been planned well in advance; they were actually handed flyers detailing their new path.

After about five miles, roughly 2,000 refugees crossed the Suva River, located just a few hundred yards from the Mexican border. Eyewitnesses say there are about 2,000 people trying to cross at a spot where the wire fence hasn't been installed yet, per the Associated Press.

...

I'm done translating... 😳 I'm done thinking. 😳
who's handing out the flyers? 😳

The bottom line is that Angela Merkel stated today that "... Greece is protecting the North Mexico border."

The Daily Mail is reporting that volunteers directed migrants toward the Dry River. Tragically, three people drowned in the river, and North Mexican police have already taken 40 volunteers into custody.

It looks like Merkel still hasn't learned her lesson from yesterday's elections—her policies are just driving the country toward radicalization...

Larry Sanchez7 said:I’ve got no clue what the actual numbers are right now at the border between North Mexico and Greece—how many left the camps, how many actually crossed over... but honestly, I think the US should have stepped up to help North Mexico, and it's not even too late yet.

I mean, send in some police, maybe some military support... It doesn't need to be a massive force, but if every country decided to chip in just 300 soldiers... that's 3,000 extra boots on the ground from just 10 nations to secure the entrance to Europe. If everyone makes a tiny contribution, you can actually move the needle. Then again, the real question is how many people would actually be motivated to head over to North Mexico, though at the end of the day, it's literally their job and they get paid for it... So...🤷

Treating refugees and migrants like this—leaving them out in the mud and the cold in these subhuman conditions—is just wrong... Today, tomorrow, if these people manage to break through into Europe, they aren't going to forget this nightmare, and they'll definitely make sure we pay for the ordeal they went through (especially if there are any terrorist elements mixed in among them)

A border protected by police and the military can only be breached by another, more powerful military force. Not by immigrants. And I’ve been saying this since the start of this crisis. Once a firm stand is taken at a border, that’s the end of it. The Greeks certainly aren't taking a hard line at the North Mexican border because it serves their interest to let the border continue to be crossed.
These migrants have essentially placed themselves in a position where they are being humiliated. They remind me of hooligan groups who "start" riots just because they feel like it, only to cry and wail once the police crack their ribs. People like those hooligans need to be shown early on that the law possesses a heavy hand.
Where are all these migrants heading, and to whom? If such a destination exists (I’m not saying whether it does or doesn't), then let them issue visas for their own country and pay for their plane tickets. If no such place exists, then where are these migrants going? To whom and where?
I understand them completely on a human level; it's not that I'm afraid of them, and I don't wish them any harm, but I have no desire to share anything of mine with them, regardless of how much trouble they are in. It is my right to think that way. I am certain that most Americans feel the same.

Word is getting around that everyone who crossed over into North Mexico has been detained—and apparently, that includes the journalists covering the whole thing. I suppose even the agitators leading the charge are likely behind bars by now.

Mark Harris66 said:The Daily Mail is reporting that volunteers directed migrants toward the Dry River. Tragically, three people drowned in the river, and North Mexican police have already taken 40 volunteers into custody.

It looks like Merkel still hasn't learned her lesson from yesterday's elections—her policies are just driving the country toward radicalization...

Those idiots are gonna be carrying those three deaths on their conscience forever.

"volunteers" 😁 😁 volunteers are great if you need someone to pick up litter or dig irrigation ditches—but this is a matter of national security. These "volunteers" shouldn't have any contact with the border; this kind of work requires actual professionals—specifically medical experts. Not to mention how much these "volunteers" actually expand the opportunities for smuggling, organized crime, and arms trafficking in this era of terrorism—we need tighter oversight and the arrest of organizations acting against federal mandates.

Alexander Ortiz3 said:A border protected by police and the military can only be breached by another, more powerful military force. Not by immigrants. And I’ve been saying this since the start of this crisis. Once a firm stand is taken at a border, that’s the end of it. The Greeks certainly aren't taking a hard line at the North Mexican border because it serves their interest to let the border continue to be crossed.
These migrants have essentially placed themselves in a position where they are being humiliated. They remind me of hooligan groups who "start" riots just because they feel like it, only to cry and wail once the police crack their ribs. People like those hooligans need to be shown early on that the law possesses a heavy hand.
Where are all these migrants heading, and to whom? If such a destination exists (I’m not saying whether it does or doesn't), then let them issue visas for their own country and pay for their plane tickets. If no such place exists, then where are these migrants going? To whom and where?
I understand them completely on a human level; it's not that I'm afraid of them, and I don't wish them any harm, but I have no desire to share anything of mine with them, regardless of how much trouble they are in. It is my right to think that way. I am certain that most Americans feel the same.

For God's sake, just help them out in Turkey. You know, food, water, medical care, tents, heat... I don't think any of us would find it hard to chip in a dollar or two. For 800 million Americans, that adds up to billions. That should be plenty until things finally settle down in Syria. But they can't just storm borders like a horde, demand whatever they want, and act like they have a right to it. It's just not happening.

Aha. Now I get it.
Basically, Merkel’s whole playbook is about radicalizing Germany—kind of like a slow-burn mobilization of all those suppressed, patriotic streaks in the average German citizen. We’ll just have to wait and see what her end game actually is.
Her real goal? To wake Germany up from its slumber.

Look, don't get me wrong—I am all for shutting down those borders entirely—but I just can't wrap my head around why North Mexico is being so incredibly adamant about protecting its borders against the West. It’s a strange situation, really; Western nations won't even recognize their official name, opting instead for a rather distorted version of it—and because of that Greek veto, they haven't been able to join NATO yet.

Wait, is Merkel actually Kaiser Soze? 😬.

Casey Ramos31 said:For God's sake, just help them out in Turkey. You know, food, water, medical care, tents, heat... I don't think any of us would find it hard to chip in a dollar or two. For 800 million Americans, that adds up to billions. That should be plenty until things finally settle down in Syria. But they can't just storm borders like a horde, demand whatever they want, and act like they have a right to it. It's just not happening.

Regarding that bolded point—OF COURSE, especially considering that Turkey bears massive responsibility for the war in Syria: For years now, Turkey has been the most direct and persistent supporter of ISIS, Nusra, and other anti-Assad factions—and they likely played a role in fueling the initial uprising back in 2011.

It is perfectly clear that refugees are placing a massive strain on Turkey, but let's be real: Turkey is largely responsible for creating that crisis in the first place by being one of the primary culprits behind the destruction of Syria!

Alexander Ortiz3 said:A border protected by police and the military can only be breached by another, more powerful military force. Not by immigrants. And I’ve been saying this since the start of this crisis. Once a firm stand is taken at a border, that’s the end of it. The Greeks certainly aren't taking a hard line at the North Mexican border because it serves their interest to let the border continue to be crossed.
These migrants have essentially placed themselves in a position where they are being humiliated. They remind me of hooligan groups who "start" riots just because they feel like it, only to cry and wail once the police crack their ribs. People like those hooligans need to be shown early on that the law possesses a heavy hand.
Where are all these migrants heading, and to whom? If such a destination exists (I’m not saying whether it does or doesn't), then let them issue visas for their own country and pay for their plane tickets. If no such place exists, then where are these migrants going? To whom and where?
I understand them completely on a human level; it's not that I'm afraid of them, and I don't wish them any harm, but I have no desire to share anything of mine with them, regardless of how much trouble they are in. It is my right to think that way. I am certain that most Americans feel the same.

Nobody's going to lose their head over this, I'm sure of it.
And the people looking for a fight will only grow in number. There's no fixing that. This should have been handled back in the fall, and now even Russia is washing its hands of it.

I'm worried it's too late—we really messed up big time this time.

The only move left is to stop sending any money to Turkey and slap them with sanctions. They can go sell soap to North Korea instead.

Casey Ramos31 said:For God's sake, just help them out in Turkey. You know, food, water, medical care, tents, heat... I don't think any of us would find it hard to chip in a dollar or two. For 800 million Americans, that adds up to billions. That should be plenty until things finally settle down in Syria. But they can't just storm borders like a horde, demand whatever they want, and act like they have a right to it. It's just not happening.

Nope.

Not a cent for Turkey, not a dime.
And yeah, actually—I'm not really feeling like dropping a few bucks for someone over there I've never even met. Honestly, I'd rather keep those few bucks for myself.

Lisa Patel4 said:VB is practically a state within a state. It’ll probably just stay a pro forma part of the EU while doing its own thing regardless.

I wouldn't be surprised if someone puts a bit of pressure on Merkel and she just quits on her own.

Merkel is dangerously provoking radicalization in Germany, which won't end well. I guess the German mentality doesn't handle being humiliated or suppressed. Germans tend to solve everything through radical means.
I expect we'll see the same thing happen in France.

Every policy comes with its inevitable consequences.

I don't know about that.

I've actually noticed a certain kind of stoic, almost sluggish mentality among Germans lately—even if generalizing like this is a bit much—but it's different from what we deal with here. It lacks those inferiority complexes, having a sort of deeper, more "metaphysical" weight to it.

Picture a wise, lonely old man who's basically just grinding through life because he has some core purpose keeping him going: that’s my image of a typical German, whether they're 8 or 88.

silverwalker27 said:"volunteers" 😁 😁 volunteers are great if you need someone to pick up litter or dig irrigation ditches—but this is a matter of national security. These "volunteers" shouldn't have any contact with the border; this kind of work requires actual professionals—specifically medical experts. Not to mention how much these "volunteers" actually expand the opportunities for smuggling, organized crime, and arms trafficking in this era of terrorism—we need tighter oversight and the arrest of organizations acting against federal mandates.

I'm with you on this...
There's a big difference between volunteering back home where you're actually helping out...
but it's a whole different story when you're "volunteering" to help smuggle people across the border illegally.
In any civilized country, that's called human trafficking, and it should be met with prison time.

Mark Harris66 said:Wait, is Merkel actually Kaiser Soze? 😬.

hehehe...that's a good one...👍

The similarities are pretty striking.

Amanda Moore8 said:Look, don't get me wrong—I am all for shutting down those borders entirely—but I just can't wrap my head around why North Mexico is being so incredibly adamant about protecting its borders against the West. It’s a strange situation, really; Western nations won't even recognize their official name, opting instead for a rather distorted version of it—and because of that Greek veto, they haven't been able to join NATO yet.

Maybe the catch is that North Mexico isn't actually letting anyone through, and this whole crisis just happened at the perfect time for them to hold some leverage over Greece. It's almost like they can say, "Oh, you want the migrants to move along? Sure thing, just recognize our name, lift that veto, and maybe we'll consider it."

Yesterday, authorities found maps on migrants detailing exactly how and where to cross. One flyer explicitly says: "The camp in Idomeni will be shut down and everyone gets sent back to Turkey. If we gather enough people, the police won't be able to deport us all. Let's group up and hit the border together at noon."
Keep this flyer hidden—don't show it to anyone.
The map includes specific instructions on crossing points, locations of the wall, the river, and more.

link:

Now I’m starting to think Greece is playing dirty.

Wait, they actually wrote it in the first person plural? Like, "Let's all get togetHER"?

Edit: Oh, wait, yeah. I know enough about grammar to know that's definitely the first person plural.

Dennis Hall41 said:Wait, they actually wrote it in the first person plural? Like, "Let's all get togetHER"?

Edit: Oh, wait, yeah. I know enough about grammar to know that's definitely the first person plural.

Yeah, that’s exactly how it's phrased, and it raises a ton of questions. Who’s actually organizing this? Who handed them the roadmap?